Cals in vs Cals out? WTF is the problem!!??
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Completely false.I did NOT read all of what you wrote. I read the first few lines and will comment on that. The statement Calories In and Calories Out IS NOT TRUE. It is about the QUALITY of your Intake and how what you have chosen to eat is Metabolized in the Body. All food is NOT metabolized in the Body the same way because some will cause the release/excess release of INSULIN and cause the Rapid rise of Blood Sugar. To keep it as simple as possible: THIS causes the "holding on" of calories and turning into Fat; and some foods have Negative qualities, meaning for the Body to burn them uses MORE energy than the calories taken in by that food.
EXAMPLE: So THESE 600 Calories are NOT Equal: 2 DoNuts # 7 oz Salmon # Grapes/Veggie Salad//4 oz Salmon
To the OP, I didn't notice if anyone mentioned it, but you said you have PCOS. PCOS is a metabolic condition that, unfortunately, makes most TDEE calculators and calculators like a BodyMedia FIT or an HRM for the most part useless. See, those devices work on a formula based on heart rate, body temperature, movement, and/or other factors. Unfortunately, PCOS, insulin resistance, diabetes, hypothyroidism and other metabolic conditions change the game, and those devices can't account for those issues. So, in my opinion, you are most likely overestimating your calories burned.0 -
I've lost next to no weight as such - but I have lost loads of centimetres...0
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I use the BodyMedia Fit as well, and have been since late October of last year. My experience has been that as long as you are burning more than your are consuming, the weight will come off. It has to... it's math/physics/science/etc, etc.. It may not come off when you expect that it will, because our body composition fluctuates, especially for women. Water retention, constipation, time of the month... all can have affect on what the scale shows us. I also have experienced a leveling off in my weightloss every 20 lbs. or so, and I would just stay the course and power through... eventually it would catch up.
Hang in there...I know sometimes that it can feel like it takes the scale forever to move. Trust me!0 -
One view would be that you now know your maintenance and should take a 20% cut off what you've been eating.
You could try two days per week (your choice of day) with intermittent calorie reduction at 500 calories and 30g of protein max.
Or High Intensity Interval Training for short period alternating high intensity activity with rest (Google "tabata")
If PCSO is the underlying problem then taking 20g off the carbs and holding proteins below 100g may help - this means eating more fats and oils.
Good luck.0 -
Maybe ur deficit is too big?
I have a BM & when I had a 500 cal deficit, I only lost .2lbs. But I made it between 300-400 cals last week & lost .6lbs. Our bodies are all different & weight loss is not just ab the math unfortunately0 -
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But I'm finding it really, really hard to believe you are regularly burning between 2500 and 3000 calories a day.
This.
I'm 240 lbs, and even ADDING IN an hour and a half of cardio, I barely touch 2600, 2700 if I'm lucky. That thing is way, way overestimating you, I can almost promise you that.0 -
Eat at maintenance for 10-14 days to recharge the hormones and give your body a break. You're in this for the long haul. A diet break every 10-12 weeks will keep the plateaus at bay.0
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Sorry, more ideas! none of which may help, but here's a couple of things that might help:
Recently a registered dietitian and trainer came on here and answered a similar question (which was nice, as I had plateaued too for about 3 weeks and desperately wanted to know why!).
He said basically that eating back exercise calories will only be needed it you are doing extremely heavy workouts and if possible avoid eating back most of them. (i.e. only eat back some if you're genuinely ravenous, not eating back 100% after a walk or pilates because you want another slice of bread like I was doing!). Basically, why undo the hard work? Especially when some calorie-counters overestimate calories burned. (his words)
He also said that low carb wasn't something that could be maintained neither was eating 1200 calories, but if you felt it could be, then you could try it, but he rarely recommended it for clients as it was more about sustainable eating (80% healthy, 20% "fun foods").
The other thing is our metabolism will slow down when we eat less, I won't say 'starvation mode' (god let's not open that can of worms) but it is true that our metabolism slows down when you diet and it means that often we have to eat less, or exercise more, to get to the goal weight we want, than someone who is already there naturally. (This is from a peer reviewed journal about eating disorders that I a studying for my grad degree).
In other words a calorie counter will say "you burned 500 calories in that workout because you weigh X amount" but if your metabolism has slowed, it might be more like 250-300... Some gyms offer metabolism testing (I'm about to have one!) to see if that might indicate what I need rather than what MFP says, maybe give that a go?
Whatever the ACTUAL reason for your plateau, you're doing such an amazing job, and there will be a bit of a slump at times that you will get through!0 -
You may not accurately know what your maintenance calories should be and are therefore inadvertently overeating, thus slowing your weight loss.
Don't rely on online calculators to give you your RMR/BMR - they depend on standard metabolic models which you might not fit. I was experiencing slower-than-expected weight loss and had my BMR clinically tested. It turns out that my resting metabolic requirements are 300+ calories lower than any of the online estimates!
Or, if you can't afford to get a RMR/BMR test, then reduce your intake by 100 calories / day for several weeks and see where the scale goes. If you see some movement, then try another 100 calories / day. Use trial and error.
The simple answer to your question is that there is a measurement error or a poor assumption in your math. Find out where it is and your body will respond.0 -
In the "for what it is worth" category....I can certainly understand your frustration.
while in some respects it is a "simple" as calories in vs calories out for weight loss - I am of the opinion that at some point it does begin to matter what is the "value" of the calorie in. This is a dramatic example but just to make my point...if it were only calories in vs calories out - then I would love to be on a peanut M&M diet but my body would not get the calorie value that I need to fuel my body, to lose the body fat and to not take away from my lean body mass.
It sounds like you are doing a great job getting the cardio in your fitness plan so maybe just take a look at what you are eating and when...
I'm just an old coach who loves to work out and encourage others to do the same. I am not an expert by any means but I just recently went to see a nutritionist who suggested that I also take a hard look at what I am actually using as "fuel" for my body vs just the raw number of calories.0 -
Stop starving the body....
1. Who is setting your Calorie goals? (BMR/TDEE)
2. Have you made ANY adjustments to your Calorie goals.
3. You should be within 97% of your goals to ensure that you are properly fueling the body.
You have not supplied enough information; therefore, I will assume...
at and average minimum of 500 calorie shortage DAILY with and estimated 3000c TDEE, 16% of your intake is left on the table, buts your body has adjusted and you have hit starvation mode.
The human body is awesome. It will enforce Darwinism, and adjust to what it knows as quickly as possible. In your case, 5 months. As you tweak your intake and move your body more, it goes into a state of "shock". While it works as it should in shedding the pounds, it is searching to adjust. What you have hit is a plateau, most likely.
Change things up. Take a 3 week break and move to maintenance. Then kick it back up. I hit a similar mark at 5 months and over 50 pounds. took a month off, and bam, right back at it. Another 20+ has come off.
Check your settings, verify for goals, and trick the body.0 -
If you have PCOS, my understanding is that your calories out part of the equation will be skewed as in lower than what would be expected for a person of your size and activity level. I would add resistance training, make sure the BMF is updated with your current stats, and lower my calories. I'd start at cutting 100 a week and keep it there for at least 2-3 weeks until you find a deficit that works. I would also start lifting weights, heavy ones.0
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My diary is only open to my friends for that reason lol According to the cals in cals out, it shouldn't matter what I am eating as long as my cals are where they are supposed to be. I know how these boards can get and I don't want people picking apart my diary to try and find something I am not eating "right". Like I said, I eat more low carb, which alot of people don't agree with, but I do it for medical reasons, so I don't want to get harped on for it.
I eat healthy, very rarely eat processed convenient food. I do not have the mentality eat whatever you want as long as it is in your cals. I am not knocking anyone that does, but this is nothing something I believe in for myself. I try my best to get nutrient dense calories, not empty ones. Not saying I am perfect, I do on occasion have something that is not the greatest, but it is not a normal part of my daily or weekly diet.
I don't know what scientifically constitutes a plateau, maybe not exactly the right word, but the scale has not budged in over six weeks, just bouncing back and forth between one pound, and I just don't know what else I can do to break this, if the cal deficit isn't enough, then what else can I do? I don't want to get stuck for month without moving forward, it is hard enough to stay completely dedicated when you are losing and so much worse when you put the work in and it still isn't working. Feel like pulling my hair out sometimes lol
I personally do not believe in "cals in-cals out". I have found WHAT I am eating to be at least as important as the number of calories. I think you are on the right track in restricting carbs, as blood sugar issues are important to address and anyone with PCOS is going to have blood sugar issues, because of the high levels of estrogen. Have you seen an endocrinologist? Have you had your thyroid levels checked? Are you on Metformin? Any other Rx's? Some researchers say that a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar in a glass of water morning and evening are as good as Metformin at controlling blood sugar/insulin spikes. Sounds like messed up hormones are a big part of your problem (if you haven't gained much weight but gained 8 inches, it's probably hormonal bloat). I used to have a lot of hormonal bloat until I discovered natural progesterone cream (I get it at the health food store--Kokoro is a good one but there are others). How old are you? Are you sleeping from 11 to 7? Oddly enough, this is a very important thing. Human growth hormone is secreted during sleep from about 11 p.m. to 1 a.m. and it is very important to regulating hormones like ghrelin, leptin and cortisol. Are you eating a very clean diet? That is essential to fighting inflammation in the body. High inflammation levels negatively influence hormones and hormones can keep your body stubbornly holding on to fat. What about exercise. Are you wiping yourself out at the gym? Don't do that. Slow and long exercise will not raise cortisol levels like more intense workouts will (high cortisol from physical or mental stress can derail fat loss). Are you drinking your eight glasses of water a day? Water is very important for EVERY process in the body (but don't drink too much as there are hazards in drinking too much). There is a new book out called, The Fat Switch by Richard Johnson, M.D. He covers a lot of this type of information.0 -
Hey all, was wondering if you can help me out. I see all over the boards how this is what matters, but why does this not seem to be the case where I am concerned? I wear a body media fit so I have my calorie burn daily and I figure out my deficit daily and then for the week, and it always says I should lose X amount, and it isn't happening!! What gives!!?
*I do understand that the armband is only 95% effective, but way more effective then guessing*
If cals in vs cals out will guarantee weight loss, then can someone tell me what the problem is? I will clarify, as of now I have been stalled out for about 6 weeks or so, so I figured that may be why there is no progress at the moment, but I have been tracking my cals burned and deficit this way for a year (before MFP) and it has always been this way. In the past I had huge deficits a day, around 1000 to 1500, and I never had the losses like it said I should, but I found out here that there is such a thing as too BIG of a deficit. I did lose but not what it said I should be around, but I still had a loss so didn't think much of it. I have lowered my deficit amount to between 500-1000 (at most, usually no higher then 900) and still nothing.
I am in the 3rd week of upping my cals, am I expecting a loss when it hasn't been enough time? Went from 1600 and below to around 2000-2200 now. I weighed this morning (not my normal weigh in day) and I was still the same. I've tried not to let it bother me these last 3 weeks because I know I have to be patient when upping my cals, but this has been going on since before this. I also have PCOS, which I do follow more low carb, try to always get below 100g net, but still nothing. I eat a whole foods diet the majority of the time (by that I mean lots of veggies, meat and dairy, do not each much grains and fruit because of the sugar, will get low carb bread at times) and cook the majority of my meals.
Here is an example, these are my numbers from last week -
Monday - - - 2563 cals burned - 1923 cals eaten = 640 deficit
Tuesday- - - 2479 cals burned - 1850 cals eaten = 629 deficit
Wed - - - - - - - 2801 cals burned - 2067 cals eaten = 734 deficit
Thursday - - - 2600 cals burned - 1623 cals eaten = 977 deficit
Friday - - - - 2723 cals burned - 2154 cals eaten = 569 deficit
Saturday - - 2926 cals burned - 2114 cals eaten = 812 deficit
Sunday - - 2840 cals burned - 2008 cals eaten = 832 deficit
Total Cals burned for week = 18,932
Total Cals eaten for week = 13,739
Total deficit - 5,193 which means I should have lost 1.4/1.5 pounds
My point in this post is what do I do when cals in vs cals out is not working properly!? I do take my inches and I was up 8 inches overall last week, which my wellness coach said could be from water weight, but within these six weeks there has not been really any weight or inch loss of significance. I don't know how to try and break a stall if I am consistently eating at a deficit and it still isn't enough! Has anyone else been stuck and found something that worked for them?
By NO MEANS am I giving up or going to eat myself into oblivion but I can't help but get frustrated by this. I follow the rules, do what I am supposed to and it still doesn't work, I am at a loss and don't know how to get my body moving on the scale again. I had a steady loss for 4 months, lost the 42 pounds shown below and haven't been able to lose a damn pound since.
Is there something else I need to tweak? Any suggestions on how to get things moving again? I don't want to say this 6 weeks has been wasted time, but I feel like it is such a setback and if I just continue doing what I have been, when am I supposed to know if its not enough? How do I break a plateau when I consistently have a deficit and it still isn't good enough? GRRRRRR frustrated beyond belief, please help if you can
had a similar issue many months ago...and SOLD my BMF on Ebay. totally gained with it! :grumble:0 -
I wear a BMF as well and I average 2600 calories burned a day (2250 on rest days and sometimes up to 3200 on heavy days). It is very possible to have high burns like that pretty easily. My sedentary TDEE even by the MFP calculation is 2080...Even on days where I do hardly anything, my TDEE is usually over 2250. It’s not hard to burn an extra thousand calories throughout the day....I can easily burn 600 calories on a run, a couple hundred lifting and there is running around the house taking care of a toddler all day on top of it.
I have the same issue as OP. I got so frustrated about my loss that I went and had all my hormones checked out. You would be surprised how hormones can affect your weight loss. I found out that my testosterone and progesterone are low....both deficiencies can cause really slow weight loss as well as water retention. I know PCOS also causes issues. I am not sure what the solution is but thought it might be something to keep in mind. I have lost 60 pounds so far but it has been super slow....just keep doing what you are doing. Slow is better than nothing.0 -
My diary is only open to my friends for that reason lol According to the cals in cals out, it shouldn't matter what I am eating as long as my cals are where they are supposed to be. I know how these boards can get and I don't want people picking apart my diary to try and find something I am not eating "right". Like I said, I eat more low carb, which alot of people don't agree with, but I do it for medical reasons, so I don't want to get harped on for it.
I eat healthy, very rarely eat processed convenient food. I do not have the mentality eat whatever you want as long as it is in your cals. I am not knocking anyone that does, but this is nothing something I believe in for myself. I try my best to get nutrient dense calories, not empty ones. Not saying I am perfect, I do on occasion have something that is not the greatest, but it is not a normal part of my daily or weekly diet.
I don't know what scientifically constitutes a plateau, maybe not exactly the right word, but the scale has not budged in over six weeks, just bouncing back and forth between one pound, and I just don't know what else I can do to break this, if the cal deficit isn't enough, then what else can I do? I don't want to get stuck for month without moving forward, it is hard enough to stay completely dedicated when you are losing and so much worse when you put the work in and it still isn't working. Feel like pulling my hair out sometimes lol
As you lose weight your TDEE Total daily energy expenditure shoulg go go down - I would if you have change the settings (current weight and body fat) in your device you may be giving your self too high a daily need hence the dcifcit is not as much as you think or not thre at all
My REE or BMR is 1574 my REE at my level of excercise (TDEE) is 2164, to lose 1 lb a week I need 3,500 deficit = 500 per day so I should eat 1,664
But as you get thinner you have to re do all these calcs .0 -
Holy Moly all the responses! Thank you so much for all your suggestions and I will try and answer some questions in this post to better claify, didn't think of them when I originally posted.
As for the PCOS, I am not insulin resistant. I just had my annual last week and all my levels were checked and normal. I do not have an extreme case, but still follow lower carb to ensure I do not have problems in the future. I have lost weight both ways, eating carbs and not. Everything with my PCOS changed when I stopped eating processed food and started eating whole nutrient dense food, that is what mattered for me, and why I don't believe in being able to eat whatever you want as long as you are in your calories, is not to say that someone else can't successfully. This does not work for me the same as it would another person. I did not start eating this way in April when I joined MFP, it was about a year before that I did, but still didn't watch my cals how I should, hence the weight gain and falling off the wagon a few times before joining MFP. I am very conscious of the food I put in my body, and this had lead to my PCOS not being as big of a factor as it may be for other women. And I know this for the simple fact that when I would lose weight in the past, it was a quick fix, fad type diet, that was just putting more junk in my body and making my symptoms much worse. I am not a "novice" dieter and am way beyond the fad diet stage. I do not do low carb in a bad way, I just don't eat grains and not alot of fruit. When I get a craving for something sweet is usually when I will eat fruit. My diet is filled with lots of protein, veggies and dairy with the occasional "other" items. I do believe this lifestyle is very maintainable because I don't crave those carbs anymore. When I fall off track from my norm and eat something I shouldn't is usually because I have gone a long period without eating and at that point I just want FOOD! lol
As for people saying I am probably not burning the amount of cals I think I am, I am not sure I believe that to be true because I didn't just get these numbers off of this site. I have a trainer (who is also a nutritionist) and my endo dr that I have been working with since i have made this lifestyle change and have been told the same by all things I have been measured with. My trainer told me that I have a high LBM and lower bady fat% then others at my weight and body structure, which would burn more cals at rest. And I am in a size 14 over 200 lbs, so I know my body is not typical of my weight. My BMR alone is approx 1765 so I think it makes sense that with the amount of exercise I put in that it is very easy to reach those burns. They are not always that high, depends on how active I am. There are days that i just work out and don't do anything after and days that i work out and am active the rest of the day. Other days when I don't work out at all and don't do much after work they are alot lower. But I have been trying to keep active outside of just working out, so I do believe they are a pretty good measurement. This example was just my past week, not a number of weeks average out or anything like that. I know not to bank all my hopes on the math, but this was where the questioning of it just being about cals in/cals out came into play because if that were the case then i stayed at a decent deficit each day, there should be some loss there, scale or inches.
Here is the deal with my weight loss so far -
I started in april at 270, started working with my trainer, was set originally at 1200-1300 cals, and was working out two hours a day every day, high and low intensity cardio, religiously. I had huge deficits, and while this worked for the first 30 pounds, I stalled. So I upped the cals some more and lightened up the workin out a bit. I went weeks with nothing happening, had a couple weeks with not good days in there and ended up losing six pounds each week, getting me to my 42. But I have been stuck since then on the scale, have lost inches but in recent weeks that has been all screwy too. That is why after I read the In Place Of A Road Map thread, I decided to put my calories to TDEE and BMR. I cut 20% off my TDEE and it gave me 2300, so to err on the side of caution I range more between 2000-2200 and try to never go below my BMR. And as I understood this approach was for more FAT loss not just weight loss, so I got frustrated when my inches went up, but I am thinking now that is probably the water gain.
After reading what some people have said about weight lifting holding onto water and changing the diet, I do think this may be the culprit, maybe just underestimating how long it takes till my body adjusts. I have gone from all cardio to more weights less cardio now, so again this makes sense also.
I am in no way looking for a quick fix or quick weight loss, this is about my health and the loss is kinda second. But I have been trying to get under 200 pounds for YEARS, so I don't think the scale will matter as much once I finally get under. I am closer then I have been in about 12 years, so I know I just need to be patient and let my body fix itself but just being so close makes it hard sometimes. And I do get measured every time I get weighed, and I went the one week losing 5 inches overall (which I thought finally broke the plateau) to gaining the 8 inches the next week so I was just baffled by what was going on, but now by what people have said, it has got to be water weight. I didn't gain on the scale, just the inches.
So after you all enlightening me with things I didn't even think about, which I thank you all for very much
, my question now would be, how long do you wait to see if the changes you have made are working? I don't want to change things up before giving what I am doing a chance to work. What is a reasonable amount of time? I want to make sure I am doing everything I can to break this plateau. 0 -
A month, in my opinion. If you're looking to lose say 1lb/week than a month gives you a 4 lb loss which should be bigger than random +/- 2 lb fluctuations in water weight and hence easier to decide if it's working.What is a reasonable amount of time?0 -
Plateaus are flipping frustrating!!!! I get it. I know all about doing the right thing and things not seeming to work for the moment. Just to put in my two cents, I do agree that I think changing up your workouts helps a lot. Your weights routine is new so you probably don't have to worry there yet but maybe change up your cardio. Are there any foods you've been eating lately that you weren't eating quite so much before? There's always the possibility of a food allergy, which will hold onto fat as to not release toxins into your bloodstream. You could also consider watching your fats, specifically the kinds of fats you're eating. I'm quite sure you're not eating trans fats or anything but how are your monosaturated fats? Are you eating (in portion only) nuts, seeds, avocaods, coconut oil, etc? Monosaturates actually help you get a flat tummy. The only other thing I can think of is maybe how you're spacing your food, as in, are there long periods of time in your day when you haven't eaten enough?
ARE YOU SLEEPING ENOUGH? How many hours are you getting? Is your room pitch dark and a decent temperature? (Slightly cool) You wouldn't believe the huge difference a lack of sleep will make in your weight loss. This is a struggle for me because I often deal with insomnia...but the times I've lost weight the fastest were when I was getting the most sleep. Your body does absolute miracles in your sleeping time. (On that note, make sure you don't go overboard with the weight training...I'm a huge fan of using weights but your body changes in the RESTING time, not in the working time)
Just some thoughts. All that could not pertain to your case right now and it could just be a long adjustment for your body. Be encouraged - you're not where you were 42 pounds ago and there's something to say for that.0 -
The results of this scientific, peer-reviewed study strongly disagree with your opinion:I did NOT read all of what you wrote. I read the first few lines and will comment on that. The statement Calories In and Calories Out IS NOT TRUE. It is about the QUALITY of your Intake and how what you have chosen to eat is Metabolized in the Body. All food is NOT metabolized in the Body the same way because some will cause the release/excess release of INSULIN and cause the Rapid rise of Blood Sugar. To keep it as simple as possible: THIS causes the "holding on" of calories and turning into Fat; and some foods have Negative qualities, meaning for the Body to burn them uses MORE energy than the calories taken in by that food.
EXAMPLE: So THESE 600 Calories are NOT Equal: 2 DoNuts # 7 oz Salmon # Grapes/Veggie Salad//4 oz Salmon
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html0
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