Losing body fat but lean mass as well, please help!

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

So, 4 weeks ago I started with 29.46% of body fat, which put me at 15.21kg of body fat and 36.41kg lean mass.
Today I am at 28.59% body fat, Body Fat = 14.54kg; Lean mass = 36.31kg.
I lost 0.67kg of fat, but 0.10kg of lean mass as well :grumble:

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the rate of fat loss while increasing (or at least maintaining) lean mass?
I'm 158cm (5'2"), 29 y.o. female. I do weights 3x and 2x cardio every week. Started NRL4W weights plan just over 2 weeks ago, so that's my main strength program, I also do a 50 min pump class once a week (not sure how to categorise it as it's mainly high rep weights broken up with 2 cardio tracks).

My diary is open, please help!

fraser112 · October 2012

How are you measuring bodyfat and muscle?

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

I had skin fold calipers used on me at my gym with Durnin/Womersley method. Because they only have a chart with 5mm intervals, I found an online calculator to get a more accurate measure: http://www.linear-software.com/online.html

SyStEmPhReAk · October 2012

So, 4 weeks ago I started with 29.46% of body fat, which put me at 15.21kg of body fat and 36.41kg lean mass.
Today I am at 28.59% body fat, Body Fat = 14.54kg; Lean mass = 36.31kg.
I lost 0.67kg of fat, but 0.10kg of lean mass as well :grumble:

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the rate of fat loss while increasing (or at least maintaining) lean mass?
I'm 158cm (5'2"), 29 y.o. female. I do weights 3x and 2x cardio every week. Started NRL4W weights plan just over 2 weeks ago, so that's my main strength program, I also do a 50 min pump class once a week (not sure how to categorise it as it's mainly high rep weights broken up with 2 cardio tracks).

My diary is open, please help!

Depending on how large your calorie deficit is, this may be difficult. If you are doing all of this on a large calorie deficit you will lose weight quicker, but also lose lean mass. A more moderate calorie deficit will mean losing the weight slower, but retaining more lean mass in the process. Either way, you are gonna lose a bit of both in this process. I had the same issues when I went on my last cut, but I am now gaining back the lean mass I lost as I've increased my calories.

You seem to have a good weight training schedule and this will help slow down your lean mass loss, but not eliminate it altogether - again, this depends on how large your calorie deficit is. Eating a high protein diet while at a caloric deficit will help you retain lean mass as you lose BF and overall weight. What are your macros?

Hope this helps.

psuLemon · October 2012

If you follow nrolfw then you deficit is around 20%... you could minimize it to 15% and add a bit more protein. You could also trybto keep reps around 6-8 but its generally acceptable to lose 10% lbm during weight loss, and its even more common for women.

fraser112 · October 2012

So, 4 weeks ago I started with 29.46% of body fat, which put me at 15.21kg of body fat and 36.41kg lean mass.
Today I am at 28.59% body fat, Body Fat = 14.54kg; Lean mass = 36.31kg.
I lost 0.67kg of fat, but 0.10kg of lean mass as well :grumble:

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the rate of fat loss while increasing (or at least maintaining) lean mass?
I'm 158cm (5'2"), 29 y.o. female. I do weights 3x and 2x cardio every week. Started NRL4W weights plan just over 2 weeks ago, so that's my main strength program, I also do a 50 min pump class once a week (not sure how to categorise it as it's mainly high rep weights broken up with 2 cardio tracks).

My diary is open, please help!

Depending on how large your calorie deficit is, this may be difficult. If you are doing all of this on a large calorie deficit you will lose weight quicker, but also lose lean mass. A more moderate calorie deficit will mean losing the weight slower, but retaining more lean mass in the process. Either way, you are gonna lose a bit of both in this process. I had the same issues when I went on my last cut, but I am now gaining back the lean mass I lost as I've increased my calories.

You seem to have a good weight training schedule and this will help slow down your lean mass loss, but not eliminate it altogether - again, this depends on how large your calorie deficit is. Eating a high protein diet while at a caloric deficit will help you retain lean mass as you lose BF and overall weight. What are your macros?

Hope this helps.

I would also add skin fold tests are pretty inaccurate, even the best system (the body pod has an error of +/- 2%

If you read this study
http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

they had soilders on 1000cals a day and a deficit of over 3000 cals everyday and noone lost any muscle until they hit the much lower percentile (4-6%) which would explain why its so important to body builders.

just food for thought.

erickirb · October 2012

If the results are accurate, it is expected that some lean mass will drop while in a deficit, some will be muscle and some will be just non fat mass. The ratio of your loss actually seems very good. Looks to be about 7:1, fat to lean mass loss which is good.

To limit the amount of lean mass loss it is best to pair strength training with a small caloric deficit, and to eat adequate protein levels.

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

Thanks for your reply!
MFP has me on 1490 cal from normal daily activity. Up until today, I used the default setting of netting 1200 calories, but changed it to 1300 today. My macros were 40 carbs/30 fat/30 protein, I just changed it to 35/30/35 today. I'm not hitting these targets every day, but my weekly summaries were pretty much spot on.

I just decided that I don't want to lose weight, I just want to tone up (i.e. the female version of "bulking up") and any weight loss would be incidental.

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

I would also add skin fold tests are pretty inaccurate, even the best system (the body pod has an error of +/- 2%

If you read this study
http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

they had soilders on 1000cals a day and a deficit of over 3000 cals everyday and noone lost any muscle until they hit the much lower percentile (4-6%) which would explain why its so important to body builders.

just food for thought.

Yeah, they told me at the gym that calipers have some measurement error (up to 19%?), but I can't afford to get a a bod pod reading or even a dunk test, I do't trust my scales that have the BF% function, so calipers is the most accurate free measurement option available to me. I also get the same assistant to do the measurements, hopefully it reduces the error.

TavistockToad · October 2012

MFP has me on 1490 cal from normal daily activity. Up until today, I used the default setting of netting 1200 calories, but changed it to 1300 today.

Why not use the goal MFP has set you?

and if you dont want to lose any more weight you should be eating at maintenance surely?

fraser112 · October 2012

I would also add skin fold tests are pretty inaccurate, even the best system (the body pod has an error of +/- 2%

If you read this study
http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

they had soilders on 1000cals a day and a deficit of over 3000 cals everyday and noone lost any muscle until they hit the much lower percentile (4-6%) which would explain why its so important to body builders.

just food for thought.

Yeah, they told me at the gym that calipers have some measurement error (up to 19%?), but I can't afford to get a a bod pod reading or even a dunk test, I do't trust my scales that have the BF% function, so calipers is the most accurate free measurement option available to me. I also get the same assistant to do the measurements, hopefully it reduces the error.

Honestly just before and after pics should be enough. weigh yourself sure, but measure your arms belly nd such and you will have just as good an idea on your progress.
As everyone is saying eat healthy / lift heavy (you wont bulk up its not possible for a female) it will shape your *kitten*/shrink your belly and take any jiggle out of your legs :laugh:

SHBoss1673 · October 2012

a 15% reduction in lean mass while in caloric deficit isn't unreasonable.

We all reduce lean mass while trying to lose weight, that's just how the body works, it can be as low as 10% in some cases, when being very good about nutrition, and working out diligently, but normally between 10 and 15% lean mass reduction can be expected when in a caloric deficit. Those having extreme deficits can get as low as 25 to 30% reduction in lean mass if they do nothing but eat at a drastically reduced level and do little exercise.

The exception to this rule is someone with an abnormally high volume of fat (I.E. someone in the mid to high 30's percentage wise), or someone who has an abnormally under-active or low volume of lean mass (someone who has been sedentary or bed ridden for a long time) where muscle growth is a primary concern for the sympathetic processes in the body.

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

MFP has me on 1490 cal from normal daily activity. Up until today, I used the default setting of netting 1200 calories, but changed it to 1300 today.

Why not use the goal MFP has set you?

and if you dont want to lose any more weight you should be eating at maintenance surely?

I thought about it, but then this jump of almost 300 calories seemed a bit drastic, I'm afraid that I'll just get the fat back because I can't increase the intensity of my workouts just yet. I put my goal at 1300 cal with an aim to eat most of exercise calories back as well.

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

Honestly just before and after pics should be enough. weigh yourself sure, but measure your arms belly nd such and you will have just as good an idea on your progress.
As everyone is saying eat healthy / lift heavy (you wont bulk up its not possible for a female) it will shape your *kitten*/shrink your belly and take any jiggle out of your legs :laugh:

I know that I can't bulk up without extra effort (training and nutrition-wise), but I would like to increase lean muscle and reduce body fat. Progress pics just aren't doing it for me. I can't see any changes (I've got a small frame and already in the healthy BMI range anyway). The centimetres are shrinking, of course, but I keep agonising whether it's the right loss, i.e. fat, or the wrong one, i.e. muscle.

falcon367 · October 2012

It's all about nutrition!!
Change your macros to 50/30/20 (that's 50 protein, 30 carb, 20 fat), eat clean and you will see change. It takes time, but use a tape to measure, not a scale or bf caliper.

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

It's all about nutrition!!
Change your macros to 50/30/20 (that's 50 protein, 30 carb, 20 fat), eat clean and you will see change. It takes time, but use a tape to measure, not a scale or bf caliper.

I'll give this a go, but I doubt I'll be able to get to 50% daily protein :noway: I usually try to get 2g of protein per 1kg body weight, for me it's somewhere around 102g

Thanks!

LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo · October 2012

First of all congrats on the loss. As for losing LBM, keep in mind that whenever we are at calorie deficit, we lose both fat & muscle at the same time so what you're experiencing is very normal and we cannot control it. Same thing happens when you eat on surplus to gain muscle, you also gain fat. Those two work hand in hand.

However we can minimize muscle loss by increasing protein intake plus heavy weight lifting. When I say 'heavy' it doesn't mean lifting 200+ lbs., it means lift weight that is heavy enough that you can only manage to finish it in 8-10 reps.

chicpeach · October 2012

Up your protein, it will help preserve your lean body mass.

chicpeach · October 2012

To increase protein, try larger cuts of lean meats and fish. For example, one chicken breast is about 8 ounces and has something like 40 grams of protein. I think it's better to increase protein with meat rather than protein supplements as the supplements are well noted for causing gas.

psuLemon · October 2012

Honestly just before and after pics should be enough. weigh yourself sure, but measure your arms belly nd such and you will have just as good an idea on your progress.
As everyone is saying eat healthy / lift heavy (you wont bulk up its not possible for a female) it will shape your *kitten*/shrink your belly and take any jiggle out of your legs :laugh:

I know that I can't bulk up without extra effort (training and nutrition-wise), but I would like to increase lean muscle and reduce body fat. Progress pics just aren't doing it for me. I can't see any changes (I've got a small frame and already in the healthy BMI range anyway). The centimetres are shrinking, of course, but I keep agonising whether it's the right loss, i.e. fat, or the wrong one, i.e. muscle.

Well keep in mind that you can't cut fat and add new lean body mass. They are two different phase. One requires a deficit and one requires a surplus. What you can do is bulk in the fall/winter months and then cut once summer comes around. Also, if you are doing NROLFW why don't you follow their nutrition guide and deviate from MFP?

jesz124 · October 2012

Honestly just before and after pics should be enough. weigh yourself sure, but measure your arms belly nd such and you will have just as good an idea on your progress.
As everyone is saying eat healthy / lift heavy (you wont bulk up its not possible for a female) it will shape your *kitten*/shrink your belly and take any jiggle out of your legs :laugh:

I know that I can't bulk up without extra effort (training and nutrition-wise), but I would like to increase lean muscle and reduce body fat. Progress pics just aren't doing it for me. I can't see any changes (I've got a small frame and already in the healthy BMI range anyway). The centimetres are shrinking, of course, but I keep agonising whether it's the right loss, i.e. fat, or the wrong one, i.e. muscle.

Well keep in mind that you can't cut fat and add new lean body mass. They are two different phase. One requires a deficit and one requires a surplus. What you can do is bulk in the fall/winter months and then cut once summer comes around. Also, if you are doing NROLFW why don't you follow their nutrition guide and deviate from MFP?

I was thinking the same. The nutrition guidelines in NROL are pretty good. He actually recommends eating at maintenance on stage 1, rather than a deficit. Just from a quick look at your diary I think your protein is too low as are your calories. I'm on stage 2 and I eat 20% below my TDEE as I have body fat I want to reduce. So basically I'm eating 1930 on a workout day.

DavPul · October 2012

You will lose some lean mass as you lose weight. It's just part of the deal. Your current program seems to be working in minimizing lbm loss, so stick with it. No amount of protein of lifting is going to keep you at net zero muscle loss while you're at a deficit and losing weight. You're doing fine

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

You will lose some lean mass as you lose weight. It's just part of the deal. Your current program seems to be working in minimizing lbm loss, so stick with it. No amount of protein of lifting is going to keep you at net zero muscle loss while you're at a deficit and losing weight. You're doing fine

Thanks for the reassurance! It's spring time here in NZ, so calorie dense foods are becoming a turn off. I'll try to get as much protein as I can in my diet. Will have to accept that concentrating on fat loss will be a priority, then gaining lean mass.

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

Honestly just before and after pics should be enough. weigh yourself sure, but measure your arms belly nd such and you will have just as good an idea on your progress.
As everyone is saying eat healthy / lift heavy (you wont bulk up its not possible for a female) it will shape your *kitten*/shrink your belly and take any jiggle out of your legs :laugh:

I know that I can't bulk up without extra effort (training and nutrition-wise), but I would like to increase lean muscle and reduce body fat. Progress pics just aren't doing it for me. I can't see any changes (I've got a small frame and already in the healthy BMI range anyway). The centimetres are shrinking, of course, but I keep agonising whether it's the right loss, i.e. fat, or the wrong one, i.e. muscle.

Well keep in mind that you can't cut fat and add new lean body mass. They are two different phase. One requires a deficit and one requires a surplus. What you can do is bulk in the fall/winter months and then cut once summer comes around. Also, if you are doing NROLFW why don't you follow their nutrition guide and deviate from MFP?

I was thinking the same. The nutrition guidelines in NROL are pretty good. He actually recommends eating at maintenance on stage 1, rather than a deficit. Just from a quick look at your diary I think your protein is too low as are your calories. I'm on stage 2 and I eat 20% below my TDEE as I have body fat I want to reduce. So basically I'm eating 1930 on a workout day.

The reason I'm not following their nutrition plan is because of my living situation. I don't cook in this household. When my situation changes in 5 months (hopefully, by then I reduce my BF% some more) I'll start following this nutrition plan as well to increase muscle.

_Tuyana_ · October 2012

To increase protein, try larger cuts of lean meats and fish. For example, one chicken breast is about 8 ounces and has something like 40 grams of protein. I think it's better to increase protein with meat rather than protein supplements as the supplements are well noted for causing gas.

I'll do my best, I usually have about 30g of whey protein in a chocolate milk drink on exercise days (which is almost every day) and 28g of casein protein mixed with raw milk.. Haven't found flatulence a problem so far :bigsmile:

Losing body fat but lean mass as well, please help!

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