Utopia? Thoughts on food politics...
Chrysopteron
Posts: 57 Member
Hey guys,
what do you think of this?
I was just in the shower (which is where I get my best ideas usually) and thought about the unfairness of the "food vending system".
How can it be that governments all around the Western world keep talking about people becoming fatter by the minute and that being a major problem for health and ultimately state finances and still pretty much the cheapest option to feed yourself is fastfood?
Isn't it enough that it is comparatively "fast", so it's convenient and sometimes timewise a reasonable solution for a hectic schedule, does it have to be cheap as well?
I think it would be a brilliant idea to change taxation on food and drinks things according to a double aspect equation:
Foodstuffs get a factor according to calorie count per 100g, so say if a cucumber gets a quota of 1, a doughnut gets one of 50 or something. And to incorporate health factors (so regular milk won't end up worse off than Coke Zero for example), then that would be multiplied with a "naturality factor" from 1 to 10 or whatever. So, completely processed food which is more applied chemistry than edible would get a ten, frozen broccoli a 3 (say) and fresh grapes a 1.
Wouldn't that really change life in a sensible way, drawing people into healthier living without preaching and making it easier on the ones who want to change but have a hard time affording to?
(And probably create gazillions of jobs because it would doubtlessly create no end of confusion and numbers in order to get everything placed and "tagged" ; ) )
Oh well, I guess it is too complicated *sigh*.
Just wanted to share with people who might like the idea since I don't see it becoming reality. Unless unbeknownst to us we have a fat head of a state department of health/finance in our midst! ; )
Anyone? *hoping*
Well, I'll just go and put up my expensive yummy shopping then...
what do you think of this?
I was just in the shower (which is where I get my best ideas usually) and thought about the unfairness of the "food vending system".
How can it be that governments all around the Western world keep talking about people becoming fatter by the minute and that being a major problem for health and ultimately state finances and still pretty much the cheapest option to feed yourself is fastfood?
Isn't it enough that it is comparatively "fast", so it's convenient and sometimes timewise a reasonable solution for a hectic schedule, does it have to be cheap as well?
I think it would be a brilliant idea to change taxation on food and drinks things according to a double aspect equation:
Foodstuffs get a factor according to calorie count per 100g, so say if a cucumber gets a quota of 1, a doughnut gets one of 50 or something. And to incorporate health factors (so regular milk won't end up worse off than Coke Zero for example), then that would be multiplied with a "naturality factor" from 1 to 10 or whatever. So, completely processed food which is more applied chemistry than edible would get a ten, frozen broccoli a 3 (say) and fresh grapes a 1.
Wouldn't that really change life in a sensible way, drawing people into healthier living without preaching and making it easier on the ones who want to change but have a hard time affording to?
(And probably create gazillions of jobs because it would doubtlessly create no end of confusion and numbers in order to get everything placed and "tagged" ; ) )
Oh well, I guess it is too complicated *sigh*.
Just wanted to share with people who might like the idea since I don't see it becoming reality. Unless unbeknownst to us we have a fat head of a state department of health/finance in our midst! ; )
Anyone? *hoping*
Well, I'll just go and put up my expensive yummy shopping then...
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Replies
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Egads don't give the government anymore wacky ideas than they already have :noway:0
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the classification of food into "good", "bad", or even a more granular rating system, is doomed to produce terrible results.
In your example, cucumber gets a low value and donuts get a high rating. But cucumbers are not (on their own) good and a diet high in cucumber is not necessarily good for you (and could in extreme cases be unhealthy: a diet high in cucumber, at the expense of other foods would be dangerously low in fat and missing many nutrients for example). similarly, a diet with the occasional (or even daily) donut is not necessarily "bad".
Taxation as a method of engineering what we eat is not a path I would be happy to go down, and it wouldn't win my vote. Partially because I do not trust my government to stand up to the massive lobbying that food companies would do to get their foods classified as "good".0 -
Something will happen as far as regulation in the future. I don't like the thought of it at all. Look back ten years ago. What was "the number one health crisi in the US".? Smoking was. Now look where we are. Banned everywhere. Yes a lot of people like that. So they will attack the food in the same way at some point because obesity is the number one problem. The manufacturers will get a big fine, and the people will be told "you can't have that here, you are fat. Scary, scary.0
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Oh, I didn't mean "good" vs. "bad".
Didn't even think of the points you raised, but I guess you're right.
I came from thinking you should get fed nicely for an affordable amount. To reach the number of calories you need, you obviously have to eat more of a food if it is low in calories - therefore it would be fair if it were cheaper to purchase. That way you spend the same amount of money for the same amount of kcals whichever way you choose to eat.
And during summer I caught myself thinking of fresh blueberries as a treat, because they're so expensive whereas a raisin bun at the bakery on my way to uni would be a quick cheap way to have breakfast.
Note: there was nothing wrong with eating that except I did it every day - not a very varied diet... ; )
I would have done it at a slightly higher price, too, but it would be an easy way of estimating calorie count when you're not experienced (and I am still relatively clueless compared to the majority of people on here)
Reading your comment on lobbying actually made me quite queasy - I'd hate to think what they could do! (And am very glad lobbyism isn't quite so huge (and not so overt by half) over here in Europe...)
Oh well, no cheap bluberries for me then - I might just go and plant my own!0 -
Something will happen as far as regulation in the future. I don't like the thought of it at all. Look back ten years ago. What was "the number one health crisi in the US".? Smoking was. Now look where we are. Banned everywhere. Yes a lot of people like that. So they will attack the food in the same way at some point because obesity is the number one problem. The manufacturers will get a big fine, and the people will be told "you can't have that here, you are fat. Scary, scary.
Not banning - what is a world without doughnuts? I don't agree with the extreme ban on smoking either, I'm totally with you on overregulation. Point is just, we do have taxes on food. The way taxation works at the moment, processed food is cheaper - because machines make it in factories, you don't have to pay a lot of people to produce it, you can make enormous amounts and thereby spread the fixed costs etc. Fresh food has a more expensive route to travel from growing the ingredients to delivering it to the stores and I thought it would be nice for them things to get rid of their disadvantages...0 -
Contrary to what people will often say and despite its apparent low prices, fast food is not the cheapest option available. You could eat a very healthy (if somewhat boring and repetitive) diet cooking at home (rice, beans, eggs, chicken etc). Using coupons, buying dried beans etc you'd be amazed at how affordable food can be.0
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I agree with what you’re saying. Every time I go on a new diet and go to the grocery store my bill is always so much more expensive once I increase the amount of "Naked Food" in the trolley. Governments should subsidise the cost of healthy "Naked Foods" which might encourage people to steer clear of all the processed junk.0
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Eating nothing but whole, healthy food choices does not have to be expensive. Just like with exercising, people need to put forward the same amount of effort to find who has the best deals.
We get four grocery papers every week, two emails from the ethnic grocery stores pertaining to their sales. I also know the bulk prices of our local Sams club and will compare everything that they have in those flyers to see what is the best price for the foods we purchase.
You cant beat $1.66/lb for a 40-50lb case of fresh, boneless chicken breast. $1.78/lb for a whole pork loin which can average between 3-5 pounds. Beef Eye Round for only 2.49/lb when you purchase 10lbs or more. Whole roaster chickens - a 2pk goes for .88 cents a package... honestly... if you do the math, it is definitely cheaper than fast food.
I can spend $70.00 on enough fresh produce for almost two weeks.... but, it requires (again, just like exercising) your full-on effort to prepare your meals with it so it doesnt go bad, or consider bulk cooking (which is what I do at home)...freeze your home-cooked meals.
Ive got making marinara down to a science - each 1 C portion averages .29 cents.
Out of one whole roaster chicken, I get plenty of fresh roasted meat, and the bones/carcass go into a stock pot to make a homemade chicken stock. I can make about 6-8 meals from the meat, and then another 6-8 servings of fresh soup using the stock. Savings compound here!
Even people on a budget can eat healthy... people with food sensitivities can still get a variety (Im one of those!)... People need to stop using excuses and find solutions... I find those with the typical excuses are often those who dont want to give up on old eating habits or junk foods, etc.0 -
The reason healthy foods are more expensive is because they go bad. They dont have all the preservatives etc. so they cant stay on the shelf long. So it makes sense that you would have to pay more for them. The food that goes bad get tossed which means it makes zero money, so the food that gets sold has to be sold for enough profit to make up for the food that was unsold, otherwise, we wouldnt have any healthy foods at all because nobody that provides healthy foods could stay in business losing that much money.
As far as government goes, any type of government regulation or involvement is not good. The free market would lower the prices of healthy foods without government interference if more people purchased healthy foods. More people buying those types of foods would lead to more people providing those types of foods and of course when you increase the supply of anything the cost goes down.0 -
Eating nothing but whole, healthy food choices does not have to be expensive. Just like with exercising, people need to put forward the same amount of effort to find who has the best deals.
We get four grocery papers every week, two emails from the ethnic grocery stores pertaining to their sales. I also know the bulk prices of our local Sams club and will compare everything that they have in those flyers to see what is the best price for the foods we purchase.
You cant beat $1.66/lb for a 40-50lb case of fresh, boneless chicken breast. $1.78/lb for a whole pork loin which can average between 3-5 pounds. Beef Eye Round for only 2.49/lb when you purchase 10lbs or more. Whole roaster chickens - a 2pk goes for .88 cents a package... honestly... if you do the math, it is definitely cheaper than fast food.
I can spend $70.00 on enough fresh produce for almost two weeks.... but, it requires (again, just like exercising) your full-on effort to prepare your meals with it so it doesnt go bad, or consider bulk cooking (which is what I do at home)...freeze your home-cooked meals.
Ive got making marinara down to a science - each 1 C portion averages .29 cents.
Out of one whole roaster chicken, I get plenty of fresh roasted meat, and the bones/carcass go into a stock pot to make a homemade chicken stock. I can make about 6-8 meals from the meat, and then another 6-8 servings of fresh soup using the stock. Savings compound here!
Even people on a budget can eat healthy... people with food sensitivities can still get a variety (Im one of those!)... People need to stop using excuses and find solutions... I find those with the typical excuses are often those who dont want to give up on old eating habits or junk foods, etc.
Yes, but everything you described here does cost more than eating other foods. Healthy food are in fact more expensive, thats just reality.0 -
Eating nothing but whole, healthy food choices does not have to be expensive. Just like with exercising, people need to put forward the same amount of effort to find who has the best deals.
We get four grocery papers every week, two emails from the ethnic grocery stores pertaining to their sales. I also know the bulk prices of our local Sams club and will compare everything that they have in those flyers to see what is the best price for the foods we purchase.
You cant beat $1.66/lb for a 40-50lb case of fresh, boneless chicken breast. $1.78/lb for a whole pork loin which can average between 3-5 pounds. Beef Eye Round for only 2.49/lb when you purchase 10lbs or more. Whole roaster chickens - a 2pk goes for .88 cents a package... honestly... if you do the math, it is definitely cheaper than fast food.
I can spend $70.00 on enough fresh produce for almost two weeks.... but, it requires (again, just like exercising) your full-on effort to prepare your meals with it so it doesnt go bad, or consider bulk cooking (which is what I do at home)...freeze your home-cooked meals.
Ive got making marinara down to a science - each 1 C portion averages .29 cents.
Out of one whole roaster chicken, I get plenty of fresh roasted meat, and the bones/carcass go into a stock pot to make a homemade chicken stock. I can make about 6-8 meals from the meat, and then another 6-8 servings of fresh soup using the stock. Savings compound here!
Even people on a budget can eat healthy... people with food sensitivities can still get a variety (Im one of those!)... People need to stop using excuses and find solutions... I find those with the typical excuses are often those who dont want to give up on old eating habits or junk foods, etc.
For $70.00 I can eat fast food, three meals a day, for two weeks. Or I can buy cheap convenience food from the grocery store, that will last me three or more weeks. I don't have the money to spend $70 on JUST fruit and veggies.
While I do try to eat healthy, it is way more expensive for me than cheaper processed, or fast foods.0 -
For $70.00 I can eat fast food, three meals a day, for two weeks. Or I can buy cheap convenience food from the grocery store, that will last me three or more weeks. I don't have the money to spend $70 on JUST fruit and veggies.
While I do try to eat healthy, it is way more expensive for me than cheaper processed, or fast foods.
I never purchase fruit.. cant digest it... but when Zucchini and summer-squash are only .69 cents per pound, its easy to purchase alot of that, have some in the fridge, some in the freezer, and some prepped for bulk meals, that price breaks down per meal thus being alot cheaper. If you took the time to look around for who has the better prices, eating healthy can be alot cheaper.0 -
Reading your comment on lobbying actually made me quite queasy - I'd hate to think what they could do! (And am very glad lobbyism isn't quite so huge (and not so overt by half) over here in Europe...)
I'm British: Political lobbying is massive in the UK. Remember: Cash for Questions, Cameron's supper club? Lords Lord Hoyle and Drayson have both been rapped o the knuckles for being involved in providing lobbyists access to Government for cash. It's big business.0 -
For $70.00 I can eat fast food, three meals a day, for two weeks. Or I can buy cheap convenience food from the grocery store, that will last me three or more weeks. I don't have the money to spend $70 on JUST fruit and veggies.
While I do try to eat healthy, it is way more expensive for me than cheaper processed, or fast foods.
I never purchase fruit.. cant digest it... but when Zucchini and summer-squash are only .69 cents per pound, its easy to purchase alot of that, have some in the fridge, some in the freezer, and some prepped for bulk meals, that price breaks down per meal thus being alot cheaper. If you took the time to look around for who has the better prices, eating healthy can be alot cheaper.
I don't like Zucchini or Summer-Squash. The thing of it for me, is also location. Where I live we have ONE grocery store that sells fresh produce and meat. For me to have more than one option I have to travel 25 miles one way. But even then I only have Wal-Mart, Kroger, and Price Chopper. For me to get a lot of variety in prices I have to travel well over 80 miles one way. The price of gas detracts from the deal on food prices I might get.
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Eating nothing but whole, healthy food choices does not have to be expensive. Just like with exercising, people need to put forward the same amount of effort to find who has the best deals.
We get four grocery papers every week, two emails from the ethnic grocery stores pertaining to their sales. I also know the bulk prices of our local Sams club and will compare everything that they have in those flyers to see what is the best price for the foods we purchase.
You cant beat $1.66/lb for a 40-50lb case of fresh, boneless chicken breast. $1.78/lb for a whole pork loin which can average between 3-5 pounds. Beef Eye Round for only 2.49/lb when you purchase 10lbs or more. Whole roaster chickens - a 2pk goes for .88 cents a package... honestly... if you do the math, it is definitely cheaper than fast food.
I can spend $70.00 on enough fresh produce for almost two weeks.... but, it requires (again, just like exercising) your full-on effort to prepare your meals with it so it doesnt go bad, or consider bulk cooking (which is what I do at home)...freeze your home-cooked meals.
Ive got making marinara down to a science - each 1 C portion averages .29 cents.
Out of one whole roaster chicken, I get plenty of fresh roasted meat, and the bones/carcass go into a stock pot to make a homemade chicken stock. I can make about 6-8 meals from the meat, and then another 6-8 servings of fresh soup using the stock. Savings compound here!
Even people on a budget can eat healthy... people with food sensitivities can still get a variety (Im one of those!)... People need to stop using excuses and find solutions... I find those with the typical excuses are often those who dont want to give up on old eating habits or junk foods, etc.
Case in point.
Compare prices of both eating styles at the same amount of effort put in, so: GO - BUY - EAT.
I'm not saying you can't live healthy on a budget. I would just think it nice for living healthy to be as easy and cost-effective as living unhealthy... You talk about it requiring your "full-on effort" - and that's what I mean.
When has healthy eating become a privilege in order to enjoy which you have to be entirely focused, not slacking and constantly thinking about?
See, I come from a household where I had to actually plan and plot in order to be treated to McDonald's once a year - it cost me effort to get my parents there... and today I'm very grateful for that and doing the same with my stepdaughter!
I think there is a time and place for every kind of food, I'd just like to have things that are good for you considered "normal" rather than the fantastic result of someone completely changing their eating choices...0 -
Egads don't give the government anymore wacky ideas than they already have :noway:
QFT0 -
Some of that cheap healthy food isn't as healthy as you think. Salt-water and beef/pork waste injected frozen chicken breasts? No thank you. I'll stick to the good stuff... which is $4.99/lb.
Cheap steak? If you want growth hormone, grain fed, dyed steak laced with transglutaminase, sure.
Or ground beef made from pink slime.
Let's not even bring fish/shellfish into this discussion. But, chinese shellfish. Just. No.0 -
Egads don't give the government anymore wacky ideas than they already have :noway:
THIS!
Thank you!
You have choices. Make the right one for you.
I am poor, broke as hell but I don't eat crap. Fruits and veggies are cheap.0 -
Don't like McDonalds Comrade? Go live in soviet Russia and go wait in a bread line.
This is capitalism at its peak. Supply and demand. how DARE, DARE you try too infringe at all on the invisible hand og the free market. Go eat your big mac and savor every last bit like a good little cog.0
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