Eating more to weigh less or eating less to weigh less? .
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I couldn't possibly wrap my brain around this idea either - but recently started to INCREASE my calories and dramatically increase my protein - and BAM. It's working. I have been watching what I eat every single damn day of my life, worked out more than anyone else I know... and it did very little. I was always the same. Still had my little muffin top and my @ss jiggled like cafeteria Jello. I don't think I was netting over 1200 cals a day... I would TRY to eat a little more and I think I would stress so much about it that I would starve myself to "make up for it" and instead of using the extra energy I would store it because my body would go into fear mode (call it whatever you will). Now, I aim to net between 1300 - 1600 calories that are more balanced (I also used to be a vegetarian actually near vegan because of my fear of food) and suddenly I am seeing definition, a MAJOR increase in energy and a whole new positive outlook. And I never ever EVER feel like "I'm so hungry but I don't have enough calories - oh noo what should I dooooo" instead now I think "oh crap! I need to eat wayyy more - gimme a chicken. YES. The whole chicken. And a side of those beans too". Pay attention to your weekly goals, eat in balance for your goals - keep MOVING and you will lose more FAT than you would by eating less. Which is ultimately what we all want, right?0
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Because although seen as unhealthy by most, I feel like theres no doubt that if you eat less, you'll weigh less. You might feel ****ty & lose a bit of muscle along with it, but you'll still weigh less.
this is what I'm saying... LOL..
saying "eating less will make you gain (or not lose)" makes no sense to me.
Because your body wont let go of fat because you are not eating enough for it to let go. What's so hard to understand about that? It will hold on forever to that fat and never let it go. this is why every single day people are writing in about their 6 month plateaus and can't figure it out.
What's so hard to understand? Nothing. I absolutely get what you (and everyone else in the bajillion threads about this) are saying. My issue is the people who DIE of STARVATION or waste away because of eating disorders. They are skinny. Too skinny. Their bodies didn't hold on to fat.
And this is coming from someone who eats roughly 1600cals/day. I'm not starving myself. I just think the starvation mode thing is silly.
But, you are talking about different things. Actual starvation is very different than someone regulating a healthy diet. They are not even comparable.0 -
People will argue this all day long, but in the end...why would you want to eat less if you can eat more and lose weight and be HEALTHY? I'd much rather be able to eat until I am full and have energy to fuel my workouts than feel like I'm always hungry and feeling like I'm missing out on so much.0
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If your TDEE is 1800, you can eat 1800 and maintain. If you eat 1500, you will lose. That's all I mean. I don't mean you have to go crazy. But, if you are active, chance are your TDEE is higher than 1800. Many women think they have to eat like birds. The fact is there is science around how the body processes food and knows it's OK to let go of fat. You also want to try and make sure you aren't losing muscle. So, it's tricky.
My only point is that it is important to feed your body, not to "starve" it. I don't mean starve in the literal sense, but I mean in a way where it knows what you are doing. It should be slow and gradual.
Maybe some of you can try this. There's another thought around you just figure out your goal weight, and then eat at your TDEE at that level. Eventually, you will just slowly drift to that weight, if you did your calculations correct, you eat right, and excercise as planned. Easy-peasy. no eating back calories or any of that. you just stay steady. It takes longer, but it's easy and there are no flucuations on calories or exercise.
Lastly, if you have success with what ever you are doing, then just do it and don't worry about what others are doing. But, if you plateau, or if you are having trouble, there are lots of different ways to get results. Helloitsdan has a great method that seems to work for many people and allows a healthy level of calorie intake. No one really needs to starve to lose weight. That's old fashioned. We know so much more about proper nutrition now, and it's unneccessary to be walking around hungry all day long, everyday.0 -
I find it interesting that the people who argue the loudest against the "starvation mode" thing and refuse to acknowlege any of the facts that's been stated and proofed and beaten to death, are still in the process of losing weight - (according to their profile pictures anyways)
On the other hand, most people who advocate eating enough to fuel your body and doing all kinds of exercise (both cardio and strengh) are the ones who look really healthy and even buff in their profile pictures.....:bigsmile: :laugh:0 -
What are the chances of someone who feels they're in "starvation mode" really just under estimateing their calorie intake and/or over estimating their calories burned? Just a thought.
Very very sure this happens a lot. Following the starvation mode myth gives a great excuse to eat too much.
Today I'm sitting at the computer burning calories as I hit the keys.0 -
What are the chances of someone who feels they're in "starvation mode" really just under estimateing their calorie intake and/or over estimating their calories burned? Just a thought.
Very very sure this happens a lot. Following the starvation mode myth gives a great excuse to eat too much.
Today I'm sitting at the computer burning calories as I hit the keys.
Actually, you do....You are breathing, your heart is beating (I hope!) your organs all do what organs do....You don't burn the amount of calories you will burn when running outside, but you are still using energy...That's where the "don't eat below your BMR ever!" FACT comes from.....0 -
What are the chances of someone who feels they're in "starvation mode" really just under estimateing their calorie intake and/or over estimating their calories burned? Just a thought.
Very very sure this happens a lot. Following the starvation mode myth gives a great excuse to eat too much.
Today I'm sitting at the computer burning calories as I hit the keys.
Quick, log those calories.0 -
Here's my current opinion.
First of all, I'm generally against VLCD's in individuals that don't understand implementation or are using it out of either ignorance or as a short-cut out of impatience. I think for "most" people, a reasonable ~20% reduction from TDEE with macro sufficiency will result in favorable body composition whereas a crash diet will not.
But that being said, adaptive thermogensis is a big culprit in the reduction in both BMR and NEAT/EAT. But you can't directly say that it's tied to acute caloric intake as much as it's tied to fat mass.
Eating at a massive deficit may cause AT to happen faster but it also causes more rapid weight loss.
Eating at a reasonable deficit may cause AT to happen gradually but it also causes slower weight loss.
I believe the latter is favorable (I want to be clear on that) for body composition purposes but just generally speaking, I don't buy into the idea that the reason one is not losing weight is that they are "eating too little and their body is hanging onto fat because of it".
The only way I see this is possible would be if an increase in food increases expenditure by a greater amount than the caloric increase in food.0 -
I think it is in part a bastardization of this idea:
'Metabolic and behavioral compensations in response to caloric restriction: implications for the maintenance of weight loss.'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19198647
"CONCLUSIONS: For the first time we show that in free-living conditions, CR results in a metabolic adaptation and a behavioral adaptation with decreased physical activity levels. These data also suggest potential mechanisms by which CR causes large inter-individual variability in the rates of weight loss and how exercise may influence weight loss and weight loss maintenance."
That eating less can cause a weight loss stall or gain is not wrong, I just believe it is not being fully communicated.0 -
I can speak from experience that very low calorie and low fat diets do slow down metabolism. Also, for me, dieting that way created many life long health issues (thanks Weight Watchers). I don't care what anyone wants to call it, "starvation mode" or whatever, but it does happen. Our bodies are built to do whatever it can to stay alive, which means in times of food shortage the body will become more efficient (slow metabolism). However, no matter what, it still takes energy to live so eventually with prolonged food shortage, weight will still be lost and one will eventually starve to death.
Doesn't it make sense to keep our metabolism high so that we can lose weight faster and still be healthy?0 -
In addition to my previous response, I think Steve Troutman has a great write up here:
http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/#starvationmode0 -
Results of someone who ate 500 calories a day for two weeks. He still lost weight but it was because he was exercising... Exercise keeps your metabolism up no matter how low you go on the calorie intake.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121060001&highlight=psmf+day+results.
Yet, when I was dabbling with anorexia, I barely ate and barely exercised. There was no )lost weight becuase he was exercising"- it was 'lost weight becuase I barely ate.'--
that is what I don't get .. people saying that eating a super low defecit won't help you lose weight...
all the arguements of 'when you eat less, you body holds the fat and won't let go of it'-- if that were true, there would be no skeleton skinny anorexic people. but there are... NOT that they are healthy !! It is not th healthy way to lose weght- but, if you don't eat then you lose wieght. Maybe some people's bodies just have higher or lower limits of 'eating less'?
(my question was not about healthy weight loss, but the concept of eating less NOT equaling weight loss in general. It confuses me as I see it all the time,, young ladies barely eating and looking like boney sticks of people.)
yes, you'll lose weigh. yes, you'll get disgustingly skinny and unhealthy if you simply starve BUT you cannot decide to eat normally again and maintain that weight loss. You'll also lose LESS THAN PREDICTED whilst starving. That sucks. You prime your body to regain the lost weight in the form of fat.0 -
What are the chances of someone who feels they're in "starvation mode" really just under estimateing their calorie intake and/or over estimating their calories burned? Just a thought.
Very very sure this happens a lot. Following the starvation mode myth gives a great excuse to eat too much.
Today I'm sitting at the computer burning calories as I hit the keys.
this is just absurd. keep telling yourself this.0 -
lots of people are having success with the eat more to lose more plan. Look, if you have to eat 3500 calories over your TDEE to gain 1 lb, the eat more to lose more theroy works and makes sense. it's just a very slow process and most people get really impatient. it feels wrong because it is against everything we have been taught (eat less and lose).
for some people, they can simply eat less and lose and never plateau.
i read so much about people pleateuing that i think there is something to the homeostasis of the bodies metabolism and it's ability to "save" itself. eating too less puts it in a weird mode where it doesn't want to let go. eating more allows the body to free up the fat. the trick is to eat right. so, now that you have 1000 more calories a day, or whatever, doesn't mean it's ok to eat twinkies. that might be where some people fail. i don't know.
Well said.0 -
It's both, eating more things that are good for you and eating less junk
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THISNetting fewer than 1200 calories a day is harmful to your body. Search "Starvation Mode" and you will find countless articles and references, the basic idea is simple to understand: If you starve your body by netting less than 1200 calories a day then your body responds by slowing down, this includes metabolism, and by producing more fat cells to store anything and everything it possibly can. So, initially when you are starving your body you could, and probably will, gain weight, then eventually that weight will go away if you continue to starve yourself, you will become thinner and add a host of medical problems to your file as a result.
Of course, I am not a Nutritionalist or a Doctor, I just have read a lot on the topic.0 -
If your TDEE is 1800, you can eat 1800 and maintain. If you eat 1500, you will lose. That's all I mean. I don't mean you have to go crazy. But, if you are active, chance are your TDEE is higher than 1800. Many women think they have to eat like birds. The fact is there is science around how the body processes food and knows it's OK to let go of fat. You also want to try and make sure you aren't losing muscle. So, it's tricky.
My only point is that it is important to feed your body, not to "starve" it. I don't mean starve in the literal sense, but I mean in a way where it knows what you are doing. It should be slow and gradual.
Maybe some of you can try this. There's another thought around you just figure out your goal weight, and then eat at your TDEE at that level. Eventually, you will just slowly drift to that weight, if you did your calculations correct, you eat right, and excercise as planned. Easy-peasy. no eating back calories or any of that. you just stay steady. It takes longer, but it's easy and there are no flucuations on calories or exercise.
Lastly, if you have success with what ever you are doing, then just do it and don't worry about what others are doing. But, if you plateau, or if you are having trouble, there are lots of different ways to get results. Helloitsdan has a great method that seems to work for many people and allows a healthy level of calorie intake. No one really needs to starve to lose weight. That's old fashioned. We know so much more about proper nutrition now, and it's unneccessary to be walking around hungry all day long, everyday.
well said.At 4'11 I refuse to consistently eat under 1800 calories, no way. I like food too much for that.0 -
Your body adjusts to the amount you feed it because it wants to survive.
How long did it take that girl with anorexia to lose that weight? She ate less and got down to 120. Then she was stuck and she had to eat even less to get down to 115, and got stuck there. Then she had to eat less to get down to 110 pounds. She's not losing any more..... so she eats even less. Now she's eating 500 calories a day and her hair is falling out because she is not getting enough nutrients. And her body is cannibalizing its own muscle to live on.
If my BMR - the amount they would feed me in a coma to keep me alive - is 1400 or more, why the hell would I want to eat 1200 and LOWER the amount I need to live on and lose body muscle and stall my weight loss because my body does actually want to live, and create a situation where I have to keep eating less and less to try to lose any weight?
^^^^ THIS
I like my moderate calorie diet. My previous diet was 3000-4000 calories a day with a sedentary lifestyle. Now I do 1800 calories a day with a lightly active lifestyle. It is working well for me. I can't imagine eating 1200 or 1400 or whatever. I'm not a bird, so why eat like one?
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to elaborate, if you eat too little, your body thinks it should hold on to the fat you already have even more because its not being fueled appropriately.Because although seen as unhealthy by most, I feel like theres no doubt that if you eat less, you'll weigh less. You might feel ****ty & lose a bit of muscle along with it, but you'll still weigh less.
this is what I'm saying... LOL..
saying "eating less will make you gain (or not lose)" makes no sense to me.
Because your body wont let go of fat because you are not eating enough for it to let go. What's so hard to understand about that? It will hold on forever to that fat and never let it go. this is why every single day people are writing in about their 6 month plateaus and can't figure it out.0 -
bump want to read later0
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If your TDEE is 1800, you can eat 1800 and maintain. If you eat 1500, you will lose. That's all I mean. I don't mean you have to go crazy. But, if you are active, chance are your TDEE is higher than 1800. Many women think they have to eat like birds. The fact is there is science around how the body processes food and knows it's OK to let go of fat. You also want to try and make sure you aren't losing muscle. So, it's tricky.
My only point is that it is important to feed your body, not to "starve" it. I don't mean starve in the literal sense, but I mean in a way where it knows what you are doing. It should be slow and gradual.
Maybe some of you can try this. There's another thought around you just figure out your goal weight, and then eat at your TDEE at that level. Eventually, you will just slowly drift to that weight, if you did your calculations correct, you eat right, and excercise as planned. Easy-peasy. no eating back calories or any of that. you just stay steady. It takes longer, but it's easy and there are no flucuations on calories or exercise.
Lastly, if you have success with what ever you are doing, then just do it and don't worry about what others are doing. But, if you plateau, or if you are having trouble, there are lots of different ways to get results. Helloitsdan has a great method that seems to work for many people and allows a healthy level of calorie intake. No one really needs to starve to lose weight. That's old fashioned. We know so much more about proper nutrition now, and it's unneccessary to be walking around hungry all day long, everyday.
I second, third and forth this 0 -
When I eat more I gain. When I eat less I lose weight. Point is I eat enough to remain healthy and strong but not too much that my body doesn't use the food and stores it instead.0
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I'd rather eat my 1900 calories a day, keep losing weight and be able to keep it off through a sustainable diet and nutrition. Just makes more sense to me. I love to exercise and average a 600 cal burn every day.... That is the kind of life I want to have forever.
That being said, if you don't give a *kitten* about being healthy, then just stop eating and youll lose weight.
^^ Yup 0 -
When I was in high school I had full blown Anorexia not this "Pro Ana" or "Skinny Girl Diet " or "ABC Diet" or other random crash diets that these girls do for a few weeks with their "Pro Ana and Pro Mia" friends. I was fasting for days at a time, severely restricting & was *VERY* active. Did I lose weight?
Obviously.
I dropped down to 87 pounds.
Problem is my body adjusted to 500 calories or less a day (and that's just my intake, not even my net) your body will do what it has to do to survive for as long as it can.
But your health and your metabolism suffer. It is extremely hard for me to lose or maintain weight now. Even several years letter I am still feeling the physical effects of my eating disorder. Of course there are still mental effects too but that's a separate issue.
My metabolism is awful now, and it used to be great.
In my first year of recovery I put on A LOT of weight just eating a healthy, normal plan & most of it was fat. And I have struggled to keep weight off or maintain weight ever since then because I screwed my body up so much by eating such a low amount.
My case was extreme obviously but I wouldn't reccomend a low calorie diet to anyone, yeah I was super skinny but I had no muscle, I looked disgusting and even now it's hard for me to build lean muscle which is SO much more attractive then 105 pounds of "skinny fat"
And crash diets are the stupidest and biggest waste of time, if you can manage to stick to them for the month or so they require as soon as you eat normally again you will gain all that weight back and chances are it'll be in the form of fat.0 -
In before a certain person thread jacks the thread with links to her own threads0
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In before a certain person thread jacks the thread with links to her own threads
A short, 51 year old, someone...with 12% bodyfat maybe?0 -
In before a certain person thread jacks the thread with links to her own threads
lol0 -
I eat more than 1200cal a day without exercise and up when I exercise more.. I don't measure that much on weight as only taking it as a guide. Without eating sufficient I find very difficult to have a good workout. My recent measurement from my 6weeks apart I put on weight of 1kg. But I have increased in lean mass thus lesser fats. My measurement of my arms, waist, hip, upper thigh were decreased in measurement of 1cm to 2.5cm. I think what matter most is lesser fats and a toner n leaner body. ^.^0
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So, many people say they (or others) are not losing weight because they eat too little... But what about those people who eat too little and end up weighing "98" pounds ... Why do some people eat little and stall/gain even, while some eat too little and lose too much weight?
(basically, "why does eating less work for thos chicks with anorexia but not for others?"- and, no, I do not want to be 98# or 108#.. I did the 108 thing when I was in my 20s, it was a BAD IDEA! I am just curious.)
As a girl in recovery - when I was anorexic I aimed to eat no calories in the day. When you don't eat anything you lose 2.2lbs a day. Around family, I consumed only what I knew I could burn off. Negative caloric intake is the name of the game. If I went to the gym I consumed energy drink so I wouldn't pass out - that happened once and I ended up falling with dead weights and dislocated my knee.
If you eat nothing, you lose rapidly. Your body eats the fat that you have as energy stores. When you eat only a little and less than your recommended caloric intake, your body will store it as fat because it is in starvation mode. Fat is emergency fuel. Basically, it knows you're not eating so instead of spending the energy now, it stock piles it to burn off later.
"Eating Less" is actually not eating and it works for the reasons above. Your entire being exists to not be a slave to your hunger.
But, if you eat the recommended caloric intake for your activity level, then you will lose weight, but slowly - but sensibly. Eating mini meals in the day keeps your metabolism revved. Doing activity keeps your metabolism revved. Starvation slows your metabolism, and that's part of my challenge now to lose weight... But, I'm not going to give up!!! Slow and steady wins the race.0
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