How much is heavy lifting?
DJ2120
Posts: 407 Member
I always hear people talking about lifting heavy during work outs. But, what is considered heavy? Sorry if this is a silly question, but I think I want to start heavier lifting, but I'm not sure exactly where to start. I could already be doing some pretty heavy lifting for all I know lol!
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they say if you can do more than 6 reps its too light… Thats what I read it may be wrong0
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You'll probably get a variety of answers. For me, heavy lifting is where I lift to the point that I hit failure on about the 6th rep, then repeat for another 3 to 6 sets. The weight on the bar will be different for everyone, and each lift will be different.0
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Got it! That really simplifies if for me, thanks guys
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85+% of your 1 rep max0
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Also, "heavy lifting" weight programs are based on compound lifts, not isolation lifts. Things like deadlifts, squats, cleans, and bench press rather than curls, tricep extensions, and leg extensions.0
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Also, "heavy lifting" weight programs are based on compound lifts, not isolation lifts. Things like deadlifts, squats, cleans, and bench press rather than curls, tricep extensions, and leg extensions.
I was going to recommend compound lifts, as well. Some isolation work is okay to go heavy, others, it is too easy to lose proper form, and it's better to go with a lighter weight that you do higher reps with. Proper form will give you much better results than going with heavier weight.0 -
So if I can only do one push-up and then can't do another one, does that mean push-ups are heavy lifting for me?0
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85+% of your 1 rep max
This. "Heavy" lifting you should really only be able to do 1-3 reps maximum.0 -
So if I can only do one push-up and then can't do another one, does that mean push-ups are heavy lifting for me?
Correct.
1-rep sets are excellent for building up strength, btw 0 -
85+% of your 1 rep max
This. "Heavy" lifting you should really only be able to do 1-3 reps maximum.
Not strictly true, 1-3 reps really exhausts you and impairs recovery, 4-6 would be a better safer range for the average person and still comes with the same gains.0 -
So if I can only do one push-up and then can't do another one, does that mean push-ups are heavy lifting for me?
Correct.
1-rep sets are excellent for building up strength, btw
Ah, that is good. Maybe I should be increasing the weights of the machines at the gym too, so I can only do one rep instead of 12.0 -
I think it all depends on your own PR. my lifting heavy may be light to others, and vice versa.0
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As has been said, Heavy is usually classified as 90% of 1RM or higher.
Yes, Ronnie Coleman or an NFL player may be able to lift a lot of weight many times, but yes, he could also lift a whole lot more weight 3-5 times. His 1RM is huge, as well.
I learned about strength trainng from coaches who learned from Tudor Bompa, and that's how I understand lifting classifications:
Light -- 40-60% of 1RM
Moderate -- 80-85% of 1RM
Heavy -- 90%+ of 1 RM
In Bompa's schema, moderate lifting on incomplete rest (1-2min between sets of 8-12reps) develops some strength, but mainly hypertrophy; heavy lifting on full rest (3-5min rest between sets of 3-6 reps) develops maximum strength, and little hypertrophy; light lifting done explosively (6-8 reps at high speed, such as jump squats) builds power, light lifting at moderate speeds for high reps (as in 50+ reps) builds muscular endurance.
If you're so inclined, read Bompa's Theory and Methodology of Training. For practical applications, his Periodization Training For Sports, and Serious Strength Training are top notch.0 -
Optimally strength training is 5 reps or less. If you do 1 rep training, you're at greater risk of injury and bad form. Do a cycle, this is what i am currently doing. For example pick a weight you can lift 10 times. Then do 5 reps(lets assume 100lbs), rest 5mins, then reduce the weight by 90% and do another set.
Next workout increase the weight by 5lbs rest 5mins and do 90% of your last lift.
Repeat this until you can only do 2 reps. assuming it's 140lbs. Rest a few days then start out with 105lbs (5lbs more than before) ad repeat the cycle, 5reps with 105, rest 5mins then do 90% of your last lift and repeat. You should finish this cycle at 145 - 150lbs 5-10lbs increase in your lift.
This sounds very interesting and helpful, but I'm a bit confused as to the weights. If I start with 100lb, do I really reduce it by 90% (so it would be 10lb) or reduce it *to* 90% (which would be 90lb)?
Then the next workout, would I increase the 100lb by 5lb (to make 105lb) or would I increase the reduced amount by 5lb (to make either 15lb or 95lb)? And when you say 'last lift', do you mean the last from the previous session, or the last one I've just done in the same session? And I'm not sure how the 100lb has increased to 140lb.
Could you tell me the actual amounts I'd be lifting each time? I think I need specific examples in order to understand it.0 -
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It's 2, with a 5mins rest set 2 is 90% of what you just did.
workout 1:
set1: 100lbs 5 reps
rest 5mins
set2: 90lbs 5 reps
workout 2:
set1 105 5 reps
rest 5mins
set2: 95lbs 5 reps (don't get anal about the numbers 90% of 105 is 94.5)
This routine should only be done with compound lifts, what i do is
Workout A: Squat, T-Bar Rows, Bench press
Workout B Shoulder Press, Dead lift, pull ups
Ah, thanks - that makes sense now.0 -
if you want muscle size, you need to be strong. to get strong do strength training. there is nothing magical about 8-12 reps. what is magical is 8-12 reps with really heavy weight. and you don't get there without being strong first.As has been said, Heavy is usually classified as 90% of 1RM or higher.
Yes, Ronnie Coleman or an NFL player may be able to lift a lot of weight many times, but yes, he could also lift a whole lot more weight 3-5 times. His 1RM is huge, as well.
I learned about strength trainng from coaches who learned from Tudor Bompa, and that's how I understand lifting classifications:
Light -- 40-60% of 1RM
Moderate -- 80-85% of 1RM
Heavy -- 90%+ of 1 RM
In Bompa's schema, moderate lifting on incomplete rest (1-2min between sets of 8-12reps) develops some strength, but mainly hypertrophy; heavy lifting on full rest (3-5min rest between sets of 3-6 reps) develops maximum strength, and little hypertrophy; light lifting done explosively (6-8 reps at high speed, such as jump squats) builds power, light lifting at moderate speeds for high reps (as in 50+ reps) builds muscular endurance.
If you're so inclined, read Bompa's Theory and Methodology of Training. For practical applications, his Periodization Training For Sports, and Serious Strength Training are top notch.
With that definition it's just a strength training program. For hypertrophy that program is to long of a rest. "Everyone talks about heavy lifting" According to this definition it's just strength training. I am sure that's not everyone's goal. Some want muscle size (hypertrophy).
pro tip, most if not all top body builders do strength training.0 -
if you want muscle size, you need to be strong. to get strong do strength training. there is nothing magical about 8-12 reps. what is magical is 8-12 reps with really heavy weight. and you don't get there without being strong first.As has been said, Heavy is usually classified as 90% of 1RM or higher.
Yes, Ronnie Coleman or an NFL player may be able to lift a lot of weight many times, but yes, he could also lift a whole lot more weight 3-5 times. His 1RM is huge, as well.
I learned about strength trainng from coaches who learned from Tudor Bompa, and that's how I understand lifting classifications:
Light -- 40-60% of 1RM
Moderate -- 80-85% of 1RM
Heavy -- 90%+ of 1 RM
In Bompa's schema, moderate lifting on incomplete rest (1-2min between sets of 8-12reps) develops some strength, but mainly hypertrophy; heavy lifting on full rest (3-5min rest between sets of 3-6 reps) develops maximum strength, and little hypertrophy; light lifting done explosively (6-8 reps at high speed, such as jump squats) builds power, light lifting at moderate speeds for high reps (as in 50+ reps) builds muscular endurance.
If you're so inclined, read Bompa's Theory and Methodology of Training. For practical applications, his Periodization Training For Sports, and Serious Strength Training are top notch.
With that definition it's just a strength training program. For hypertrophy that program is to long of a rest. "Everyone talks about heavy lifting" According to this definition it's just strength training. I am sure that's not everyone's goal. Some want muscle size (hypertrophy).
pro tip, most if not all top body builders do strength training.
My only experience is with strength training as a supplement to a primary sport (swimming in college, bicycle racing, and training 400m-800m runners). As I said, my understanding is all based on Bompa, and also Issurian's Block Training -- which means there is a whole lot that I don't know, because I've never been involved in body building.
I just offered one definition of "heavy," based on 1RM
Gym users have a lot of different goals, and there are a lot of adaptations and means of stimulating them -- it's all good and that's why the gym is a fun place.0 -
Also, "heavy lifting" weight programs are based on compound lifts, not isolation lifts. Things like deadlifts, squats, cleans, and bench press rather than curls, tricep extensions, and leg extensions.
This is a good point that a lot of people forget.0 -
Lol I guess I didn't know what it was either. I thought weight lifting in general was "lifting heavy" ... unless you're using 3lb weights bopping around in an aerobics class. *shrug*
I do heavy lifting apparently. I do 3x5 compound lifts. I use a weight until I can get all 5 reps for 3 sets then I increase my weight.0 -
heavy is failing(not being able to do another rep) anything equal to or below 12 reps.
No, not even close.Not strictly true, 1-3 reps really exhausts you and impairs recovery, 4-6 would be a better safer range for the average person and still comes with the same gains.
Partially true, partially false... Doing max effort work (1 - 5) everyweek with the same exercise can be very exhausting to your CNS, which is why you should rotate the exercise every 1 - 2 weeks if you train that way. Max effort training is fine but you have to be careful with it. Max effort training can generically be defined as a training session in which you set a rep max, let's say 3, and you increase weight each set until you reach a weight that you cannot lift for 3 reps, you fail at 1 or 2. Something like StrongLifts 5x5 for instance isn't max effort training, just for reference.
The term is "Maximal strength training" not optimal strength training; I've seen Westsiders also refer to it as Absolute Strength but never Optimal.Optimally strength training
This is not directly to you, it's to you and others who say heavy lifting is really low reps. IF this is true, then ronnie coleman benching hundreds of pounds for 12 reps must be light lifting.
Maximal strength (aka "heavy") is a weight realitve to your individual 1RM. Regardless of how strong he is, if Ronnie was doing sets of 12 reps then he wasn't doing Maximal Strength training. Is strength is superior to some advanced lifters but that doesn't make it maximal strength training.
Lifting "heavy" is just a reference to maximal strength training or some coaches have even referenced it as "neuro-muscular" strength training because of the training stimulus applied to the nervouse system. What is considered heavy is relative to the individual but this type of training has a very clear definition and that definition is 85% to 100% of your 1RM which is weight typically done between 1 and 5 reps.
Here's an example of how it's applied and how it's relative to the individual:
<insert pro powerlifter>
- Deadlift @ 1RM = 1,000lbs
- @ 90% of 1RM = 900lbs
<insert advanced lifters name here>
- Deadlift @ 1RM = 600lbs
- @ 90% of 1RM = 540lbs
<insert beginning lifter>
- Deadlift @ 1RM = 200lbs
- @ 90% of 1RM = 180lbs
The lifters are training at 90% which is within range of maximal strength training but the training weight is far different. What is heavy for one lifter isn't heavy for another.0 -
What is heavy lifting? What is the "purpose" of it? Gain strength or gain size?. Pick one. You can achieve those with the rep ranges I listed.
No, not even close.heavy is failing(not being able to do another rep) anything equal to or below 12 reps
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A lot of people say "i lift heavy" so you're saying all of them are close to 1 rep max ranges? If that's the case it's pretty idiotic to even recommend "heavy lifting"
You're also confusing "intensity" and "heavy" intensity is defined by a % of 1RM.
"Heavy" lifting is an ill-coined term for maximal strength training. Maximal strength training is for the most pure strength benefits. Because of how it engages the muscles and motor-neurons it is also has the most carryover to everyday life and athleticism.
Again, most people misconstrue the term "heavy". And no, I'm not confusing intensity. I think you are the one that is confused here. Anybody that implies 12 reps or less for this form of lifting is inexperienced and needs to read more. I'd recommend starting with,
Louie Simmons
Zatsiorsky
Charles Poliquin0 -
The "undefined" term "heavy lifting" is to get women away from te pink dumbbells that's about it. Please reference a page that in any of the books you mentioned that define "heavy lifting" don't worry I'll wait...
I agree with this.
More than 12ish is muscular endurance.
10reps may not be optimal for strength just as 5 reps may not be optimal for hypertrophy but there is a definite crossover.
Also, you're never going to gain size with adequate cals, macros & to a certain extent micronutrients also.0 -
What is heavy lifting? What is the "purpose" of it? Gain strength or gain size?. Pick one. You can achieve those with the rep ranges I listed.
No, not even close.heavy is failing(not being able to do another rep) anything equal to or below 12 reps
.
.
A lot of people say "i lift heavy" so you're saying all of them are close to 1 rep max ranges? If that's the case it's pretty idiotic to even recommend "heavy lifting"
You're also confusing "intensity" and "heavy" intensity is defined by a % of 1RM.
"Heavy" lifting is an ill-coined term for maximal strength training. Maximal strength training is for the most pure strength benefits. Because of how it engages the muscles and motor-neurons it is also has the most carryover to everyday life and athleticism.
Again, most people misconstrue the term "heavy". And no, I'm not confusing intensity. I think you are the one that is confused here. Anybody that implies 12 reps or less for this form of lifting is inexperienced and needs to read more. I'd recommend starting with,
Louie Simmons
Zatsiorsky
Charles Poliquin
The "undefined" term "heavy lifting" is to get women away from te pink dumbbells that's about it. Please reference a page that in any of the books you mentioned that define "heavy lifting" don't worry I'll wait...
i think this is a good point. i have to describe my weight lifting routine routine differently to my female friends and family than i do to my male friends and family. the dudes just assume that when i say i'm lifting weight i'm doing some she-hulk *kitten* with compound lifts. my female friends on the other thing thought i meant 5011 tricep kickbacks with a 3 pound DB until one of them joined me at the gym for a lifting session0 -
The "undefined" term "heavy lifting" is to get women away from te pink dumbbells that's about it. Please reference a page that in any of the books you mentioned that define "heavy lifting" don't worry I'll wait...
You have them books? So then pick up your copy of Modern Trends in Strength Training and reference the force curve. There is nothing referenced as "heavy" lifting. It's not defined, it's a made up term. But if you're going to apply some guidance to it then the most relative reference on the force curve is maximal strength training.0 -
85+% of your 1 rep max
This. "Heavy" lifting you should really only be able to do 1-3 reps maximum.
This is not directly to you, it's to you and others who say heavy lifting is really low reps. IF this is true, then ronnie coleman benching hundreds of pounds for 12 reps must be light lifting.
For Ronnie Coleman it's light lifting.0 -
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:my female friends on the other thing thought i meant 5011 tricep kickbacks with a 3 pound DB until one of them joined me at the gym for a lifting session0 -
heavy lifting is for increasing strength, going for one rep max0
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Everything ronnie coleman lifted was LIGHT WEIGHT BABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!0
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