Started 2k/day Calorie Burn- need advise on food.

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I have read a few articles about this topic. Here's one:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/367666-can-too-much-exercise-slow-weight-loss/?utm_source=undefined_R1

I am a 46 year old male. current weight of 303. started at 326 in late June and have a steady loss of 5 pounds per month. My goal weight is 190. I have the time now to hit the gym hard and would like to increase my weight loss pace.

For the past week I'm doing cardio for about 2000-2200 calories per day on elliptical/uphill treadmill/stat bike at my gym for 3 hours. I break it into 2 sessions 1.5 hours each in the morning and evening. I also do strength training 2-3 days per week each session for 45 minutes that was originally setup by a trainer. The strength training is done during my daily 3 hour sessions and I just started training 2 weeks prior. Previously I was only doing 1 hour sessions daily only before last week. Yes, I am sore in my legs some and back daily.

I am taking strata-6 protein drink after every workout per my trainer.

I am eating about 2000 calories per day. My first week of doing this I only lost 1.2 pounds. I thought I would lose closer to 4-5 pounds. By the numbers my daily basal metabolic rate should be 2550-3300 depending on which one you use. With this I should be losing 500 calories per day roughly from taking in less food another 2000 per day for the exercise. 2500 calories per day x 7 day would be 17.5k "lost", divide by 3500 calories per pound to get to 5 pounds lost. However, I have only lost 1.5 pounds.

I know a lot of factors can come into play. individual genetics. water retension. starvation mode. hormones. etc.

I would love to get some input from people who have tried this type of regimen and learn what their results were?

My goal is to be healthy and fit and maintain my new active lifestyle and eating habits even after losing the weight. I still have a long way to go. But I'm not focused so much on that as I am just taking it day by day, meal by meal, gym session by gym session and enjoying the journey.
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Replies

  • foleyshirley
    foleyshirley Posts: 1,043 Member
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    If you are eating 2000 calories, and burning 2000 calories, your net calorie intake is 0. That is not a good thing at all. Your body is not getting enough fuel for these kinds of workouts. You are risking starvation mode and loss of lean body mass if you continue. You need to eat more.
  • foleyshirley
    foleyshirley Posts: 1,043 Member
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    If you are eating 2000 calories, and burning 2000 calories, your net calorie intake is 0. That is not a good thing at all. Your body is not getting enough fuel for these kinds of workouts. You are risking starvation mode and loss of lean body mass if you continue. You need to eat more.

    Search the forums for "In place of a roadmap 2". It has a lot of nice information on how to determine how much you should eat.
  • Greenrun99
    Greenrun99 Posts: 2,065 Member
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    The only people I know that spend 3 hours in the gym, are either people that talk to people the whole time or people trying to compete in something.. And those people that spend that time in the gym are eating 5000+ calories a day.. you are eating 0.. I understand you want to achieve your weight loss, but you don't have to spend 3 hours a day in the gym and however much money your paying your trainer..
    If your BMR is 2550 ( or around there) I would say you should be netting that amount or around 2700 for probably the same amount of weight loss.. Also the 2000k calories is that what the machines say or is that a number from a HRM? Some of this stuff can be really overestimated but at your weight its possible to burn that much..
    Also simply cutting out bad items from your intake can help drop a lot of weight.. Soda, Sugar, Candy, Snacks, etc..
  • rwhawkes
    rwhawkes Posts: 117 Member
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    Hey Peter - I am in exactly the same boat as you and was contemplating doing two-a-day hardcore cardio workouts, but I'm also finding the same results as you - disappointing numbers on the scale.

    So, I'll keep an eye on this thread and see if we can find some info that'll help!

    BTW when I do an hour on the elliptical machine, it tells me that I have burned over 1200 calories. I'm a bit skeptical about that number, but even if it's off by a bit, it's still a lot of burn. At the very least, even though I haven't lost as much weight as I had been hoping for, I sure feel a helluva lot better than before I started. Eating clean (most of the time) and exercising is a WIN!
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
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    I only hired a trainer to get started- paid for 4, 30 minute sessions. I am on my own.

    Did you try something similar?

    I heard the biggest losers do something similar as what I am doing actually.

    I am using a HRM. I'm doing a steady pace that keeps my heart rate between 105-115 and keep changing machines about every 20-30 minutes. buying a bike this week so I don't get too burned out on the gym.

    The only people I know that spend 3 hours in the gym, are either people that talk to people the whole time or people trying to compete in something.. And those people that spend that time in the gym are eating 5000+ calories a day.. you are eating 0.. I understand you want to achieve your weight loss, but you don't have to spend 3 hours a day in the gym and however much money your paying your trainer..
    If your BMR is 2550 ( or around there) I would say you should be netting that amount or around 2700 for probably the same amount of weight loss.. Also the 2000k calories is that what the machines say or is that a number from a HRM? Some of this stuff can be really overestimated but at your weight its possible to burn that much..
    Also simply cutting out bad items from your intake can help drop a lot of weight.. Soda, Sugar, Candy, Snacks, etc..
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
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    Hope this thread helps you. The machines are usually wrong. I have a polar HRM that I bought ofr $70 and love it. It is very accurate for calories burned. I am burning about 730 calories per hour at my slow burn pace of 105-115.
    Hey Peter - I am in exactly the same boat as you and was contemplating doing two-a-day hardcore cardio workouts, but I'm also finding the same results as you - disappointing numbers on the scale.

    So, I'll keep an eye on this thread and see if we can find some info that'll help!

    BTW when I do an hour on the elliptical machine, it tells me that I have burned over 1200 calories. I'm a bit skeptical about that number, but even if it's off by a bit, it's still a lot of burn. At the very least, even though I haven't lost as much weight as I had been hoping for, I sure feel a helluva lot better than before I started. Eating clean (most of the time) and exercising is a WIN!
  • Crystalchaos72
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    Do you see this 3 hour a day thing sustainable for life? There is no need to overdo things, although the enthusiasm is great :) I eat 2800 or thereabouts and my bmr is 1455.......just eat healthy foods with healthy fats, avacado, nuts and lean meat and veggies, along with moderate treats.....and an hour a day is better sometimes less is more. Focus on the strength training and make sure you get adequate protein.....maybe 100g a day depending on who you ask:) along this whole process I have only done 4 stints of 3 hour cardio sessions, with breaks, I like to focus on muscle building, personally:) good luck
  • jesz124
    jesz124 Posts: 1,004 Member
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    I'm not really sure I can give you constructive advice as such, but my first thoughts after reading your daily exercise and food intake was: Is this something that will be sustainable?

    I think yes, while you have lots of energy and willpower in the early days you may be able to keep this up. But i'm not sure 3 hours of working out daily is something that you will be able to carry on with for the long term. Exercising that much will use tons of energy, you will need to up your calorie intake or basically you will just burn out. I understand you feel like a bigger deficit = faster weight loss but you will be losing muscle mass too. Thats not cool.
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
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    thanks for your input.

    I'm getting 100-170 gram of protein/day, and mostly eating well. lots of veggies, and some treats but keeping those to a min mostly.

    i had trouble sleeping last week, I forgot to mention that, and I know that can have a big impact on weight loss. my gut tells me that is a big factor. 3 nights I only got about 4 hours sleep. had some work stuff to complete. this week though sleep should not be an issue. will be getting 7-8 hours going forward.


    Do you see this 3 hour a day thing sustainable for life? There is no need to overdo things, although the enthusiasm is great :) I eat 2800 or thereabouts and my bmr is 1455.......just eat healthy foods with healthy fats, avacado, nuts and lean meat and veggies, along with moderate treats.....and an hour a day is better sometimes less is more. Focus on the strength training and make sure you get adequate protein.....maybe 100g a day depending on who you ask:) along this whole process I have only done 4 stints of 3 hour cardio sessions, with breaks, I like to focus on muscle building, personally:) good luck
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
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    thank you for your input.

    I know the focus these days in on lifestyle change. But I think that has gone a bit too far. I think it is possible to have rapid weight loss and yes I will lose some muscle mass with that. However, even after losing what I want I will continue my new lifestyle, but will cut back on cardio at that time and also adjust food. I am very well aware 95% of people who lose weight gain it all back and I will not be one of those stats. How I am losing it though will make me very vulnerable to becoming one of those stats. I think though that with that knowledge I will be much more aware than most of the problems happening after losing and will continue on MFP indefinitely. Gotta get there first though.
    I'm not really sure I can give you constructive advice as such, but my first thoughts after reading your daily exercise and food intake was: Is this something that will be sustainable?

    I think yes, while you have lots of energy and willpower in the early days you may be able to keep this up. But i'm not sure 3 hours of working out daily is something that you will be able to carry on with for the long term. Exercising that much will use tons of energy, you will need to up your calorie intake or basically you will just burn out. I understand you feel like a bigger deficit = faster weight loss but you will be losing muscle mass too. Thats not cool.
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
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    Is there anyone out there who has actually done what I am doing? PLEASE HELP! Need your feedback? There is nothing like personal experience.
  • neverstray
    neverstray Posts: 3,845 Member
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    It's just too much. An hour a day in the gym is more than enough. Losing weight is more about calorie deficit. You can lose weight and not workout at all. So, while the enthusiasm is great, I think what you are seeing is some mistakes. For one, you are not eating enough. That's why your weight loss has halted. For two, you are spending too much time and actually probably getting negative results. There is such a thing as too much of anything is just too much. Slow down. Spend less time obsessing about it. Make good food choices, exercise moderately, but really hard. Make it count. Then, enjoy life. This has to be sustainable over the rest of your life. You can spare one hour a day for the rest of your life, you probably cannot spare over 3 hours everyday.
  • Alpina483
    Alpina483 Posts: 246 Member
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    I wish I could help, but 2-3 hour cardio every day like you do, I'm not even close (nor do I intend to be). So, no personal experience.

    If you need rapid weight loss, people are raving about intermittent fasting. Again, no personal experience, but maybe something to look into.
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
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    Is there anyone out there who has actually done what I am doing? PLEASE HELP! Need your feedback? There is nothing like personal experience.

    I have. I lost 30 lbs in a month. I gained back about 45 lbs after falling off the wagon when I couldn't stick with it.

    Recognize that your measurements are probably inaccurate, even with an HRM it's just an estimate (and usually an overestimate for calorie burn). Also it's extremely easy to underestimate calorie intake. Even then, you probably aren't eating enough. You weigh enough to handle a pretty massive deficit (like me), but it's not the best way to go about doing it. If you want to lose weight fast to reach a goal weight you can...if you want to look good at that goal weight maybe take it easy a bit. I'm not going to say cut back on working out. As long as you're getting enough sleep and are eating for it, more power to you, but be careful about how high a deficit you run.
  • zaph0d
    zaph0d Posts: 1,172 Member
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    Why not try something less extreme and more sustainable? The goal is to be healthy and fit for life, not to burn out as quickly as possible.
  • em9371
    em9371 Posts: 1,047 Member
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    It's just too much. An hour a day in the gym is more than enough. Losing weight is more about calorie deficit. You can lose weight and not workout at all. So, while the enthusiasm is great, I think what you are seeing is some mistakes. For one, you are not eating enough. That's why your weight loss has halted. For two, you are spending too much time and actually probably getting negative results. There is such a thing as too much of anything is just too much. Slow down. Spend less time obsessing about it. Make good food choices, exercise moderately, but really hard. Make it count. Then, enjoy life. This has to be sustainable over the rest of your life. You can spare one hour a day for the rest of your life, you probably cannot spare over 3 hours everyday.

    ^^^^
    this.
    3 hours of exercise occasionally is perfectly fine, i do it maybe twice a week - that is made up of a mix of weights / boxing / swimming / running / spinning (not all at once!!1). I do it because I like what I do, I couldn't care less what it burns, yours sounds like you force yourself to do it to burn XX amount of cals. 3 hours of just cardio is totally unnecessary, especially with burning the same as you eat you will burn muscle as well as fat, the less muscle you have the less cals you burn, so the loss stops as you have found.
    You would be better doing maybe 1 hour of cardio, 1 hour of weights, and not every single day. This will maintain your muscle mass, keep your body burning fat, and overall your loss will be better.

    As someone else mentioned, look up the post 'in place of a roadmap' and learn about BMR / TDEE, and why its important to properly fuel your body for exercise.
    I eat 2000 + cals as a 179lb / 5'4 female. my net after exercise is 1500 ish which is my BMR, and I lose 1-2lbs most weeks.
    I have lost weight before eating 1200 and exercising my *kitten* off, must have been netting about 500 and it does NOT last, I was hungry all the time and the weight went straight back on, which isnt what you want to happen. By eating enough to cover my exercise, I am losing FAT not muscle, weight is coming off steadily, and I don't feel like i'm 'on a diet' :-)
  • BerryH
    BerryH Posts: 4,698 Member
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    i had trouble sleeping last week, I forgot to mention that, and I know that can have a big impact on weight loss. my gut tells me that is a big factor. 3 nights I only got about 4 hours sleep. had some work stuff to complete. this week though sleep should not be an issue. will be getting 7-8 hours going forward.
    Trouble sleeping is one of the symptoms of over-training, and I wouldn't be surprised if you experienced more as the weeks go on. In the long run it will be detrimental to your weight loss and fitness goals.

    Remember that you're burning another 3000 calories plus just by living in addition to your exercise. MFP is designed so you eat back your exercise calories, or at least a good proportion of them to allow for a margin of error (even the best heart rate monitor gives you a 75% accurate estimate), and still remain at a deficit.

    Go look at the success stories. Stalk your MFP friends with the most impressive bodies. You'll find that that few of them exercise for more than an hours at a time. Most of them take a complete rest day at least once a week, and those who've managed to keep up a steady weight loss have a relatively small deficit of around 500 calories over their TDEE - that's their sedentary burn PLUS exercise calories.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    For the past week I'm doing cardio for about 2000-2200 calories per day on elliptical/uphill treadmill/stat bike at my gym for 3 hours. I break it into 2 sessions 1.5 hours each in the morning and evening. I also do strength training 2-3 days per week each session for 45 minutes that was originally setup by a trainer. The strength training is done during my daily 3 hour sessions and I just started training 2 weeks prior. Previously I was only doing 1 hour sessions daily only before last week. Yes, I am sore in my legs some and back daily.

    WHAT??!!? Okay. Stop. STOP. Seriously stop.

    Not only is this 2000/day pace ridiculous, it's complete unnecessary. And more to the point, it's unsustainable. No one, no matter how motivated, can keep up this 3 hour workout schedule that you have yourself on. Eventually, you'll get tired. Eventually, you'll have other things to do. Eventually, you'll get injured.

    I understand that you want to speed up your weight loss. That's accomplished thru diet, not tremendous amounts of cardio or strength training. Set your calories up so you're at a 1000-1300 per day deficit (for your weight 2000 or so total calories sounds about right). You can use 30-60 mins of cardio to help keep you at that level if you have a difficult time controlling your appetite. Continue your 3x per week strength training. You should lose about 8-10 lbs per month that way. This will work. This will be something you can keep up for a year relatively easily. Go to the Success forums on this site and you'll see person after person that has lost 70-120 lbs in a year, doing it this exact way. I don't spend a lot of time on that forum, but I don't think you'll find people that lost the weight by doing 3 hour cardio.
  • californiagirl2012
    californiagirl2012 Posts: 2,625 Member
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    I have read a few articles about this topic. Here's one:
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/367666-can-too-much-exercise-slow-weight-loss/?utm_source=undefined_R1

    I am a 46 year old male. current weight of 303. started at 326 in late June and have a steady loss of 5 pounds per month. My goal weight is 190. I have the time now to hit the gym hard and would like to increase my weight loss pace.

    For the past week I'm doing cardio for about 2000-2200 calories per day on elliptical/uphill treadmill/stat bike at my gym for 3 hours. I break it into 2 sessions 1.5 hours each in the morning and evening. I also do strength training 2-3 days per week each session for 45 minutes that was originally setup by a trainer. The strength training is done during my daily 3 hour sessions and I just started training 2 weeks prior. Previously I was only doing 1 hour sessions daily only before last week. Yes, I am sore in my legs some and back daily.

    I am taking strata-6 protein drink after every workout per my trainer.

    I am eating about 2000 calories per day. My first week of doing this I only lost 1.2 pounds. I thought I would lose closer to 4-5 pounds. By the numbers my daily basal metabolic rate should be 2550-3300 depending on which one you use. With this I should be losing 500 calories per day roughly from taking in less food another 2000 per day for the exercise. 2500 calories per day x 7 day would be 17.5k "lost", divide by 3500 calories per pound to get to 5 pounds lost. However, I have only lost 1.5 pounds.

    I know a lot of factors can come into play. individual genetics. water retension. starvation mode. hormones. etc.

    I would love to get some input from people who have tried this type of regimen and learn what their results were?

    My goal is to be healthy and fit and maintain my new active lifestyle and eating habits even after losing the weight. I still have a long way to go. But I'm not focused so much on that as I am just taking it day by day, meal by meal, gym session by gym session and enjoying the journey.

    Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.

    The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.

    Some people will say you need to eat more. Some people will say you need to eat less. Only you can decide or check with your doctor. But what would make the most sense? Eating more or eating less, to lose weight? Hmmm..

    Taller people have more room in their calorie budget to go up or down. Shorter people like me have less room and get frustrated with "eat more" because that typically does not work for us. If you are confused about it don't just listen to any of us, do some research and get approval from your doctor, then just do what you need to do and tune the rest of us out.

    It really depends on your RMR. If you are short like I am then your RMR is really just above the 1200 limit so you really don't have much room for a calorie deficit and going up is less likely to work. If you are taller you will have a higher RMR and can go up or down and still be in a deficit so you can lose no matter what. All that matters is a calorie deficit. If you are short it can be hard to have a deficit at 1200 or above so your only option is to check with your doctor. I did and he agreed and had me go down. So I had to tune everyone out around here.

    BTW it does not sound like you are short since you are eating 2000 calories.

    Once I got leaner I had to taper UP my calories. The leaner you get the less of a calorie deficit your body can handle. It needs to be a long slow shallow deficit. For me still under a doctor’s care, this was still lower calories compared to others because I am so short, petite, and am under 12% body fat where I truly can go into starvation mode if I ate too low. . Again, you must seek your doctor’s advice. No one here can tell you how many calories to eat, either up or down.

    Seek advice from your doctor. Myself or anyone else on here can’t tell you how much to eat, or to go up or down. If you have a lot of body fat reserves you would be surprised at how little you can eat (unless you have emotional eating issues or disorders). The leaner you get the less your body has to draw from and then you have to taper up your calories. There is no such thing as starvation mode for woman over 12% body fat or men over 6% body fat. I pretty much proved that for myself by staying strong and building muscle and doing what I did. I'm the leanest, most muscular, and most fit that I have ever been in my life at almost 52 years old. My doctor looked at my blood work throughout my journey and it remained fine even with “taking breaks from eating” for periods of time and eating less. Even now at less than 12% body fat everything is A-OKAY. I am healthy, active, and vibrant, muscular not skinny. I have never had eating disorders nor do I now. If you have eating disorders you should not be on a diet unless you are under a doctor’s care and/or get those issues resolved first. I do not advocate unhealthy eating or promote eating disorders.

    While there is no one size fits all I listed the things that worked for me here --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/740340-i-lost-60-lbs-at-age-51-anyone-can-any-workout

    I found the following quotes helpful for sorting through all the myths plastered all over the place
    What is the exact number of calories for you?

    We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.

    In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
    per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
    the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
    that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
    calculators and text books say otherwise.

    This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
    was just a bit off.

    -John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)

    The Theory of Fat Availability:
    •There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
    •The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
    •The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
    •Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
    may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.

    At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
    you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
    when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
    as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
    men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].

    -Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)


    Ever since I finally lost the 60lbs and went from Obese to super fit I've realized that tiny people like me simply need less calories than most other people. Even now as healthy and vibrant as I am, with 100's of people stalking my diary, I get questioned almost daily about my calories seeming to low. Why do people ask when they don't even know my height or RMR? Since I'm so small my RMR is only 1380 and that is based on my recent DXA scan which isn't nearly as accurate as going to a lab and blowing into the tube several times to fine out a more accurate number, but it is certainly more accurate than an online chart. I will never be able to eat the 2000 calorie diet everyone thinks is necessary, I'm just too small for it.

    Never again will I let anyone tell me what to eat, when to eat, or how much to eat. I learned what works for me. I OWN IT. No one will ever pressure me to eat birthday cake at a party or anywhere else, I DECIDE. No one else decides for me. I eat when I want to eat and I don't eat when I don't want to eat.
  • super_monty
    super_monty Posts: 419 Member
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    For the past week I'm doing cardio for about 2000-2200 calories per day on elliptical/uphill treadmill/stat bike at my gym for 3 hours. I break it into 2 sessions 1.5 hours each in the morning and evening. I also do strength training 2-3 days per week each session for 45 minutes that was originally setup by a trainer. The strength training is done during my daily 3 hour sessions and I just started training 2 weeks prior. Previously I was only doing 1 hour sessions daily only before last week. Yes, I am sore in my legs some and back daily.

    WHAT??!!? Okay. Stop. STOP. Seriously stop.

    Not only is this 2000/day pace ridiculous, it's complete unnecessary. And more to the point, it's unsustainable. No one, no matter how motivated, can keep up this 3 hour workout schedule that you have yourself on. Eventually, you'll get tired. Eventually, you'll have other things to do. Eventually, you'll get injured.

    I understand that you want to speed up your weight loss. That's accomplished thru diet, not tremendous amounts of cardio or strength training. Set your calories up so you're at a 1000-1300 per day deficit (for your weight 2000 or so total calories sounds about right). You can use 30-60 mins of cardio to help keep you at that level if you have a difficult time controlling your appetite. Continue your 3x per week strength training. You should lose about 8-10 lbs per month that way. This will work. This will be something you can keep up for a year relatively easily. Go to the Success forums on this site and you'll see person after person that has lost 70-120 lbs in a year, doing it this exact way. I don't spend a lot of time on that forum, but I don't think you'll find people that lost the weight by doing 3 hour cardio.



    That advice is worth it's weight in gold.

    Burning 2000 cals a day is plain crazy and can be dangerous unless you are mega fit.

    I never burn more than 1500 a day and that's overkill, I was training for running.