Okay, what's the truth about muscle gain?
angiechimpanzee
Posts: 536 Member
I keep reading that muscles take months & months to develop, & even in two months a female can't gain more than 2lbs of muscle unless she's using steroids, etc. But then why are there so many people who gain visible muscle tone after 60 days on workout regimes like Insanity, or 30 days of Jillian Michaels' shred? I mean muscle gain may not be easy but it's got to be possible to gain a noticeable amount within a month or so, right?'
And I also hear that its impossible to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit, yet clearly those same individuals are out to lose weight & are eating at a deficit, and GAINING muscle tone as well as losing fat. Whats the truth?
And I also hear that its impossible to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit, yet clearly those same individuals are out to lose weight & are eating at a deficit, and GAINING muscle tone as well as losing fat. Whats the truth?
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If you are completely untrained, you can gain an illusion of larger muscles simply by retaining water in the muscles. The muscles will also be inflamed due to the stress put on them. This makes them look bigger, even though you didn't actually gain any muscle mass. If you were to stop working out for a few weeks they would return to normal size.
Furthermore, loss of fat through diet and exercise allows the underlying muscle to show its definition more readily.
A combination of these two factors can lead to quite a dramatic change in a person's appearance. Swollen muscles + less body fat == you lookin' good!
The hard part comes after that. To actually put on real muscle mass you have to be in a surplus and it takes months and years of work to put on a large amount - especially for a woman. There are a lot of inexact numbers on this portion, but it is generally accepted that a woman can put on .5-1lb of lean mass per month. In a couple years you'd likely reach your genetic potential (without steroids and such).
Edited to say, there will be plenty of people jumping in saying they gained all sorts of muscle mass doing 30DS or whatever generic DVD workout. They are ignorant at best. There is no magic to it.0 -
loss off fat looks like muscle gain because of the definition.0
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Muscle tone =/= New Muscle. Untrained individuals have a lot of untrained muscle. When you first start weight training, for months and months the primary source of strength gains and muscle firmness is from Neuromuscular adaptations, where the CNS system is re-learning to fire the muscle that's already there. It makes you stronger, makes your muscles feel firm, and gives you basically all the benefits of gaining muscle, you're just not making new muscle tissue. You're training the untrained fibers. As you lose fat, you see the muscle better, and it can even become temporarily bigger from protective intramuscular fluid swelling, which makes the muscle feel bigger and firmer and shows up on the scale as a gain. So, it's confusing, because basically feels exactly like gaining new muscle- which makes people adamantly argue that they defy physics. It looks like new muscle, acts like new muscle, feels like new muscle, it's just not new muscle.0
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average person gains about ½ lb -1lb of muscle per week with a calorie surplus.....
It is harder for women to get big.. its just not in our genetics.
I been lifting heavey for over a year now and Im pretty happy so far with where i am at... just started seeing the results and muscle gain...0 -
That's not necessarily true though, because a person can lose fat without doing any type of strength training & still look flabby. There's a visible difference in the bodies of people who lose fat + strength train than those who just lose fat.loss off fat looks like muscle gain because of the definition.0 -
That's not necessarily true though, because a person can lose fat without doing any type of strength training & still look flabby. There's a visible difference in the bodies of people who lose fat + strength train than those who just lose fat.loss off fat looks like muscle gain because of the definition.
riiiiiiiiight, but you said the bodies in question were both losing weight and strength training, didn't you?0 -
as a male beginner, you MIGHT be able to do that for the first year. But only in the first year if you have a proper template, eat a ton and are a fine male genetic hunk of testosterone.average person gains about ½ lb -1lb of muscle per week with a calorie surplus.....
After that however, you're looking at 1lbs a month..0 -
as a male beginner, you MIGHT be able to do that for the first year. But only in the first year if you have a proper template, eat a ton and are a fine male genetic hunk of testosterone.average person gains about ½ lb -1lb of muscle per week with a calorie surplus.....
After that however, you're looking at 1lbs a month..
Oh ^^ lol well you learn someting new everyday
ty .. >.> i should probaly stop telling ppl that >.< then.. 0 -
You don't gain muscle, you build up the muscle you have and you see it with shred and insanity cause they are also reducing their body fat percentage. Less fat = more visible muscle. And girls can build muscle just like boys without steroids, just not as big. Get on a Whey protein shake, keep doing cardio to reduce fat and start on a muscle building program.0
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You don't gain muscle, you build up the muscle you have and you see it with shred and insanity cause they are also reducing their body fat percentage. Less fat = more visible muscle. And girls can build muscle just like boys without steroids, just not as big. Get on a Whey protein shake, keep doing cardio to reduce fat and start on a muscle building program.
^True, as long as the person is eating at a calorie surplus. Sufficient protein and a strength training program will not create muscle in a deficit, but they are a perfect program for building strength and minimizing muscle loss. But like I said above, you don't need new muscle to feel and look like you are more muscular.
The only conditions that create muscle in a deficit are:
1) Steroids
2) New to strength training or returning from a long break
3) Extreme obesity cases
#'s 2 and 3 are only minimal gains, and will be short lived. Not really worth thinking about in the long term.
There is one possibility of some muscle gain with a very strict, very slow calorie cycling program as well.0 -
as a male beginner, you MIGHT be able to do that for the first year. But only in the first year if you have a proper template, eat a ton and are a fine male genetic hunk of testosterone.average person gains about ½ lb -1lb of muscle per week with a calorie surplus.....
After that however, you're looking at 1lbs a month..
Oh ^^ lol well you learn someting new everyday ty .. >.> i should probaly stop telling ppl that >.< then..
Hmmm... I'm gaining 2+ pounds of muscle a week at the moment since switching to a large calorie surplus.. Been lifting hard for a few years now. It's probably not sustainable, I have shocked my system, but definitely possible. Having said that I started bulking about 12 weeks ago, and as I have tweaked my routine and diet the rate of gain has actually increased a lot. Last 4 weeks have seen 1kg (2.2 lbs) each week.
Sorry, this is a bit off topic to the OP since I'm a guy.0 -
Hmmm... I'm gaining 2+ pounds of muscle a week at the moment since switching to a large calorie surplus.. Been lifting hard for a few years now. It's probably not sustainable, I have shocked my system, but definitely possible. Having said that I started bulking about 12 weeks ago, and as I have tweaked my routine and diet the rate of gain has actually increased a lot. Last 4 weeks have seen 1kg (2.2 lbs) each week.
Sorry, this is a bit off topic to the OP since I'm a guy.
scale weight =/= LBM gain. Water weight, fat gain etc.
I've been lifting for 3 years and got a dexa scan the other day and have gained 1.8kg of LBM and 1.8kg of fat mass in a year. Lifting 3x a week. Bulking for approximately 6 months of the year I'd say. (will have more details in a week for LBM retention during dieting) 0 -
What's the difference between gaining muscle & building up muscle?You don't gain muscle, you build up the muscle you have and you see it with shred and insanity cause they are also reducing their body fat percentage. Less fat = more visible muscle. And girls can build muscle just like boys without steroids, just not as big. Get on a Whey protein shake, keep doing cardio to reduce fat and start on a muscle building program.
I don't want a muscular look or a very low body fat percentage, I just want that toned look that you typically see on the after photos of participants in those types of programs. If building up muscle instead of gaining it will get me to look like that then I'm fine.0 -
nothing
What's the difference between gaining muscle & building up muscle?I don't want a muscular look or a very low body fat percentage, I just want that toned look that you typically see on the after photos of participants in those types of programs. If building up muscle instead of gaining it will get me to look like that then I'm fine.
lose fat until you have visible "tone" then. If you don't do any resistance training you lose weight (LBM & fat). If you do resistance training then you retain you're LBM and end up "toned".0 -
loss off fat looks like muscle gain because of the definition.
That's not necessarily true though, because a person can lose fat without doing any type of strength training & still look flabby. There's a visible difference in the bodies of people who lose fat + strength train than those who just lose fat.
That depends on how much lean mass they had in first place. some people are fat with no muscle, some people are fat with lots of muscle, the 2nd person will look pretty decent and more muscular just by losing some weight, that doesn't mean they gained any muscle during that period.
Hmmm... I'm gaining 2+ pounds of muscle a week at the moment since switching to a large calorie surplus.. Been lifting hard for a few years now. It's probably not sustainable, I have shocked my system, but definitely possible. Having said that I started bulking about 12 weeks ago, and as I have tweaked my routine and diet the rate of gain has actually increased a lot. Last 4 weeks have seen 1kg (2.2 lbs) each week.
Sorry, this is a bit off topic to the OP since I'm a guy.
yeah sorry to disappoint, but less than 50% of that is likely to be muscle.
Dreamer bulk, don't make the mistake I did and think that is all going to be lean gains, you will end up pretty fat in 6 months time.0 -
scale weight =/= LBM gain. Water weight, fat gain etc.
I've been lifting for 3 years and got a dexa scan the other day and have gained 1.8kg of LBM and 1.8kg of fat mass in a year. Lifting 3x a week. Bulking for approximately 6 months of the year I'd say. (will have more details in a week for LBM retention during dieting)
yeah sorry to disappoint, but less than 50% of that is likely to be muscle.
Dreamer bulk, don't make the mistake I did and think that is all going to be lean gains, you will end up pretty fat in 6 months time.
Here are some more facts before you get too dismissive.
My scale gains have been more than that. In total since I started I have increased my scale weight 10kg in 12 weeks (today). Im estimating that 30% of that is fat and water. I started creatine before those 12 weeks so most water gains should have already hit, so allowing for water is being conservative. Thats 7kg or 15.4 lbs lean mass, for an average of 1.28 lbs per week.
In tracking my weight, my rate of gain has actually accelerated in the last 4 weeks with an overhaul of my diet and routine, it stagnated for a few weeks before that. It's been 1kg (2.2 lbs) on the dot average over the last 4 weeks, admittedly some of that will be fat, but large gains dont surprise me because this was a big shock to the system. As I originally siad I doubt it will be sustainable, but this Saturday's weigh in will tell me if I've pulled it off for a 5th week.
I've been keeping a close eye on body fat (it's easy to see the difference from a low starting point, but digital calipers are in the mail to be sure). Either way I'm extremely cautious of gaining too much fat and will cut from the beginning of November to try and get down below my starting BF which was about 10%, now estimate it is 12% and I'd like to hit 8%. These are all "eyeball" estimates from trainers and body builders, those guys are fairly accurate when looking at low percentages, but as mentioned I'm getting some calipers to track my cut.0 -
as a male beginner, you MIGHT be able to do that for the first year. But only in the first year if you have a proper template, eat a ton and are a fine male genetic hunk of testosterone.average person gains about ½ lb -1lb of muscle per week with a calorie surplus.....
After that however, you're looking at 1lbs a month..
Oh ^^ lol well you learn someting new everyday ty .. >.> i should probaly stop telling ppl that >.< then..
Hmmm... I'm gaining 2+ pounds of muscle a week at the moment since switching to a large calorie surplus.. Been lifting hard for a few years now. It's probably not sustainable, I have shocked my system, but definitely possible. Having said that I started bulking about 12 weeks ago, and as I have tweaked my routine and diet the rate of gain has actually increased a lot. Last 4 weeks have seen 1kg (2.2 lbs) each week.
Sorry, this is a bit off topic to the OP since I'm a guy.
2+ lbs. of muscle a week is good but very difficult to do. How do you know that it is muscle?0 -
What's the difference between gaining muscle & building up muscle?You don't gain muscle, you build up the muscle you have and you see it with shred and insanity cause they are also reducing their body fat percentage. Less fat = more visible muscle. And girls can build muscle just like boys without steroids, just not as big. Get on a Whey protein shake, keep doing cardio to reduce fat and start on a muscle building program.
I don't want a muscular look or a very low body fat percentage, I just want that toned look that you typically see on the after photos of participants in those types of programs. If building up muscle instead of gaining it will get me to look like that then I'm fine.
lol0
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