Flexible Dieting = Success (rant)

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  • Mpol2
    Mpol2 Posts: 442 Member
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    Hi, I eat clean, that means I avoid processed foods anything with ingredients that I dont recognise I avoid. So it works for me I dont get cravings, I dont get sugar spikes and Im happy. I eat lots of natural foods, , My philosophy of eating clean came from reading the lean & clean book, I found it very informative and changed my perspection on foods. I now drink filtered water, eat predominantly organic, avoiding added hormones, antibiotics, preservatives etc. I recently have had to under go chemo and with that in mind im pretty toxic anyway so by eating this way Im trying to recuce the damage to my liver, kidneys. If you are interested I'd suggest going to your library and look up the book, its a great read, and nice recipes. Goodluck on your journey :)

    Good luck with your treatment.
  • PetulantOne
    PetulantOne Posts: 2,131 Member
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    I agree 100% as long as you'e getting a balance of macros and all of your micros. If you don't eat "clean" (and yes, I am equally annoyed by the concept), then it's harder to meet your micronutrient requirements and stay under your cals. Agree?

    I think the most useful thing about this site is that it quantifies how much you should eat of each macro nutrient. Now all you have to do is solve this puzzle by logging what you eat. It's hard enough as it is, why limit your choices of food and complicate things further? Yes, 100% agree

    I would have a really hard time if the website didn't track macros. I don't eat "clean" by any stretch of the imagination. But I find the more I focus on upping my protein, and keeping sodium in check, some things are starting to fall into place. But yes it annoys me when people say you can't eat "crap" and lose weight. It just isn't true. This whole thing can be hard enough, why complicate it anymore than it has to be?
  • KellyBGarland
    KellyBGarland Posts: 7
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    Elliott, I would have to disagre with you on what you said about your body not knowing the difference in what you eat. While your body does still work off the fuel you provide it, I found from experience that the better foods I ate, the better I felt and more energy I had. When I would eat crummy, calorie rich foods without any true nutritional value, such as a cookie, some chips, or even a beer, my body definitely notices. I am not saint in regards to eating 100% whole or natural foods, but do notice a difference when I take advantage of my "cheat days", or weeks when I might be on vacation.
    I do see your point in playing the calorie game, and while I also know that moderation is key, natural and nutrient rich foods definitely are the best fuel for your body.
  • Gt3ch
    Gt3ch Posts: 212 Member
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    But the fact is that the human body doesn't recognize foods as "clean" or "dirty".

    A completely false assumption.
    So what's this moral superiority of eating only things like brown rice, broccoli, lean chicken and olive oil? Why does everyone have to list all the treats they had in the confessional thread?

    It's not a moral or moral superiority issue. Our bodies are not simple thermodynamic machines that are completely unaffected by artificial chemicals and require no micro-nutrients. Health and good nutrition go beyond simply counting calories & protein.
  • Game8
    Game8 Posts: 442
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    Elliott, I would have to disagre with you on what you said about your body not knowing the difference in what you eat. While your body does still work off the fuel you provide it, I found from experience that the better foods I ate, the better I felt and more energy I had. When I would eat crummy, calorie rich foods without any true nutritional value, such as a cookie, some chips, or even a beer, my body definitely notices. I am not saint in regards to eating 100% whole or natural foods, but do notice a difference when I take advantage of my "cheat days", or weeks when I might be on vacation.
    I do see your point in playing the calorie game, and while I also know that moderation is key, natural and nutrient rich foods definitely are the best fuel for your body.

    I agree that you have to honor the needs of the body, but also don't forget about the needs of the mind. Giving your body nutrients is important, but so is emotional satisfaction.
  • Game8
    Game8 Posts: 442
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    But the fact is that the human body doesn't recognize foods as "clean" or "dirty".

    A completely false assumption.

    my claim simply points to the fact that it isn't this black and white. The body has needs that can be quantified, and you can eat any foods you want as long as by the end of the day you satisfy these needs.
  • msbunnie68
    msbunnie68 Posts: 1,894 Member
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    I eat quite healthily but I won't say no to a nice cookie (or a glass of red) if it fits my calories...

    ..although I did list a confession thread because my sole motivation to exercise that day wasn't to get fit/ripped/musclebound/ it was purely so I could fit a corona beer into my calories for the day. I posted for a laugh because it gave me a bit of mirth knowing that the only motivating factor that day for me was an icy cold beer with my husband.

    I try to avoid getting into the eat clean/macros/protein powder comments in each thread as we have to live our lives once we achieve our goals, and I don't plan on being miserable or exasperatingly judgemental to my friends and family while I do this. I also don't want to set myself up in a nutritional bubble that is not sustainable for me given our social life and my husband's business engagements etc that I have to hostess.
  • Yogi_Carl
    Yogi_Carl Posts: 1,906 Member
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    Complex carbs and wholefoods take longer to digest than sugar and salt high refined junk foods so they satisfy hunger for longer so you eat more for your calories and take in less calories overall, compared to your high sugar snack which will give you a calorie spike and then drop rapidly making you want another fix straight away until you feel sick.

    I've been there. I know where I'm going now I've made the effort to clean up my diet, but thanks for the original post which was interesting and made me think about why I eat the way I do.
  • Gt3ch
    Gt3ch Posts: 212 Member
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    But the fact is that the human body doesn't recognize foods as "clean" or "dirty".

    A completely false assumption.

    my claim simply points to the fact that it isn't this black and white. The body has needs that can be quantified, and you can eat any foods you want as long as by the end of the day you satisfy these needs.

    But you don't actually know exactly what you're body needs. All of us here are making assumptions and guesstimates based on rough measures and rules of thumb for macros only. That's not precise and it's not EVERYTHING the body needs.

    You CAN do a lot of things. CAN is somewhat irrelevant when you're talking about personal needs and goals. My point is optimal health goes beyond your macros.

    You CAN hit your macros with a diet of solely McDonalds burgers and fries and soda. But that's not EVERYTHING your body needs. If you do that over time you will develop deficiencies and be battling extreme hunger as you crash from the sugar spikes. Good luck maintaining you macro limit and functioning well.

    There also are people with chemical sensitivities, allergies, chronic or degenerative conditions as well as people who are here as part of a broader lifestyle change for disease prevention. It's silly and baseless to tell them there is no benefit to eating clean.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    But the fact is that the human body doesn't recognize foods as "clean" or "dirty".

    A completely false assumption.
    So what's this moral superiority of eating only things like brown rice, broccoli, lean chicken and olive oil? Why does everyone have to list all the treats they had in the confessional thread?

    It's not a moral or moral superiority issue. Our bodies are not simple thermodynamic machines that are completely unaffected by artificial chemicals and require no micro-nutrients. Health and good nutrition go beyond simply counting calories & protein.

    The issue is people always take things to the extreme examples. The OP has mentioned that a variety of micronutrients (as co-enzymes for a lot of bodily functions) are required and clearly if you were to only eat "junk" food these needs would not be met. (Not likely that a typical macronutrient split would be met either)

    And the other issue is that body composition change doesn't necessarily equal good health.

    That whole moderation thing always comes into play :smile:

    You don't "need" to live off chicken/brown rice/broccoli but if you are on a lower calorie diet then eating the majority of these sorts of foods will definitely help with satiety and longer term success. If you can fit a pop tart into you're day and still be in calorie deficit and it helps psychologically then go ahead! (I do :happy:)
  • redheaddee
    redheaddee Posts: 2,005 Member
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    If a food you wanna eat fits into your daily goals, then there's no reason not to eat it. No need to torture yourself!

    Preach it!

    If beer and beef and bacon and chocolate fit into my daily allotment than hallelujiah (not all at once. that would be gross. or I would be pregnant.)

    Those folks annoy me with their holier than thou attitudes about clean eating and vegan and whatever other kool-aid folks are drinking.

    Whatever works for each person, well good on ya. But along with religion and pen!ses, don't try to shove it down my throat. I will barf.
  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
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    People mistake me for a low carber or clean eater...but sometimes I feel guilty for looking like a goody two shoes because I have a health ciondition that is alleviated when I eat clean foods (psoriatic arthritis). Last week I played devils advocate with a genuine, glorious Italian family owned takeaway pizza. It was devine. I woke up in the morning feeling like I had been hit by a train and the fatigue was indescribable. It had been over a year since I had an episode and 80lbs ago...when I started I thought food was the answer to all my problems as in type of food and my focus was that. As I got healthier, I lost weight as a nice secondary bonus. I can have some things but I have to follow it up with a good dose of protein and veg. I'd been working on my fibre with adding wraps back in and other foods but the pizza tipped me over. I think it was the thicker crust.

    But what I resent sometimes is that people think I am deliberately avoiding these things to lower cals etc. I've had people suggest that treating this in this way is BS. it's not...I've been symptom free up until that pizza. I stood looking at that pizza and forgot why I shouldn't have it because I knew calorie wise I could get away with it...in fact I was down 1lb the day after! Damn! The fatigue got me...upset me...but it was a big wake up again. The symptoms aren't going to go just because I'm not fat anymore. I'm going to have to be vigilant for the rest of my life.

    What I genuinely want to know though from you all that can still eat this food is when you hit maintenance are you going to be able to stop having that little bit extra n tell yourself it doesn't matter? Are you planning on being on MFP for the rest of your life to keep track of it. Cos to tell you the truth I also thought clean eating easy (seriously lol)... You rarely have to cook, calories aren't a problem...very little to think about...I thought I was kinda lazy apart from having to do it. But I also really enjoy what I eat too.
  • FitFabFlirty92
    FitFabFlirty92 Posts: 384 Member
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    I agree. The biggest difference between the way I lost weight before and the way I'm losing it now is that I'm making a concerted effort not to place moral judgements on food. Foods are not inherently good or bad, and therefore I am not inherently good or bad based on my food choices. If I eat healthier on a certain day, I am not better than or morally superior to someone who had fast food. And if I eat crap, which I still do quite regularly, it doesn't make me worth any less than anyone here who eats clean, and doesn't mean I'm not working just as hard toward my own personal goals.
  • KS_4691
    KS_4691 Posts: 228 Member
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    What about your athletic performance? Food choice definitely has an impact there.
  • jenbusick
    jenbusick Posts: 528 Member
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    Elliott, I would have to disagre with you on what you said about your body not knowing the difference in what you eat. While your body does still work off the fuel you provide it, I found from experience that the better foods I ate, the better I felt and more energy I had. When I would eat crummy, calorie rich foods without any true nutritional value, such as a cookie, some chips, or even a beer, my body definitely notices. I am not saint in regards to eating 100% whole or natural foods, but do notice a difference when I take advantage of my "cheat days", or weeks when I might be on vacation.
    I do see your point in playing the calorie game, and while I also know that moderation is key, natural and nutrient rich foods definitely are the best fuel for your body.

    This has been my experience. I also notice a real difference in my workouts. I can tell when I've had a "bad" food day -- I have real trouble getting through my workout, I'm mentally sluggish, and my energy is way off. I can really feel it when I've had too much sugar and too many simple carbs. Although I will note that I don't formally follow a "low carb" diet and my efforts at eating "cleaner" have been a mixed success. I do find that limiting simple carbs and sugars, together with trying to eat 'cleaner,' helps with hunger and cravings. It's not a matter of moral superiority, although I do think some people act that way about it, it's me trying to figure out what works best for me.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    What about your athletic performance? Food choice definitely has an impact there.

    You're body sees macronutrients and micronutrients not food names. As long as you are consuming a suitable amount of macronutrients (will differ from person to person and type of training) and getting adequate micronutrients then atheletic performance should be fine.

    e.g. 2 weeks ago I was on a VLC diet that was 100% "clean" foods. (lean meats, fibrous veggies only) Training SUCKED! Was a mission just to get through each session. Finish diet, refeed with high cals/carbs and a heap of "junk" food (fruit toast, pancakes, pop tarts etc) and next session set new PB's. :smile:
  • Gt3ch
    Gt3ch Posts: 212 Member
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    You're body sees macronutrients and micronutrients not food names. As long as you are consuming a suitable amount of macronutrients (will differ from person to person and type of training) and getting adequate micronutrients then atheletic performance should be fine.

    Not true exactly. Certain foods require more resources for the body to break down than others. This is a kind of physiologic stress and inhibits recovery.
    e.g. 2 weeks ago I was on a VLC diet that was 100% "clean" foods. (lean meats, fibrous veggies only) Training SUCKED! Was a mission just to get through each session. Finish diet, refeed with high cals/carbs and a heap of "junk" food (fruit toast, pancakes, pop tarts etc) and next session set new PB's. :smile:

    That's because you made too drastic a change too quickly and didn't give your body enough time to adjust before you rushed to judgement.
  • PibblesRun
    PibblesRun Posts: 236 Member
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    Elliott, I would have to disagre with you on what you said about your body not knowing the difference in what you eat. While your body does still work off the fuel you provide it, I found from experience that the better foods I ate, the better I felt and more energy I had. When I would eat crummy, calorie rich foods without any true nutritional value, such as a cookie, some chips, or even a beer, my body definitely notices. I am not saint in regards to eating 100% whole or natural foods, but do notice a difference when I take advantage of my "cheat days", or weeks when I might be on vacation.
    I do see your point in playing the calorie game, and while I also know that moderation is key, natural and nutrient rich foods definitely are the best fuel for your body.

    Yes this ^^^ thats pretty much what I was going to say! Yes...you can lose weight and be under your calorie goal eating crap but its not good for you. I feel SO much better since ive eliminated processed stuff. "clean" foods so to speak...(although i just call it eating healthy) make your body work so much better.
  • bragaswag
    bragaswag Posts: 28
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    You can almost always eat more quantity of foods that are clean vs foods that are dirty. it will keep you full longer.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    You're body sees macronutrients and micronutrients not food names. As long as you are consuming a suitable amount of macronutrients (will differ from person to person and type of training) and getting adequate micronutrients then atheletic performance should be fine.

    Not true exactly. Certain foods require more resources for the body to break down than others. This is a kind of physiologic stress and inhibits recovery.

    You mean like protein?
    e.g. 2 weeks ago I was on a VLC diet that was 100% "clean" foods. (lean meats, fibrous veggies only) Training SUCKED! Was a mission just to get through each session. Finish diet, refeed with high cals/carbs and a heap of "junk" food (fruit toast, pancakes, pop tarts etc) and next session set new PB's. :smile:

    That's because you made too drastic a change too quickly and didn't give your body enough time to adjust before you rushed to judgement.
    [/quote]

    Could you please forward you're thoughts to Lyle McDonald. I'm sure he'll be happy to learn something.

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