Calories vs. Carbs

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GreenyLeany
GreenyLeany Posts: 9
in Food and Nutrition
So I've heard a lot about calories (virtually everyone goes by calories) and a lot about carbs (some have lost more weight counting carbs), so let me hear your thoughts. When it comes to successful weight loss and weight maintenance, which is scientifically the correct way to go?

(And what really is, molecularly, a calorie anyway?)
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Replies

  • FitFabFlirty92
    FitFabFlirty92 Posts: 384 Member
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    A calorie is a unit of energy. Burn more energy than you consume, and you lose weight.

    I think the reason so many people are into low-carb diets and lose a lot of weight on them is because carbs do tend to be more calorie-dense than other foods. So when you lower your intake of them, generally your overall calorie intake lowers with it, which results in weight loss. In other words, it's not the lack of carbs that's causing the weight loss, it's the lower calorie intake overall that lowering carbs has helped to facilitate. So between the two, keeping your calories in check is far more important than reducing your carbs, unless of course you have a medical condition that means you have to stay on top of them.
  • GreenyLeany
    GreenyLeany Posts: 9
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    Well what about sugar? I mean what's the difference between eating 100 calories worth of spinach and 100 calories worth of chocolate? The type of food must matter, so it can't be strictly the calories that control your weight right?
  • FitFabFlirty92
    FitFabFlirty92 Posts: 384 Member
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    Well what about sugar? I mean what's the difference between eating 100 calories worth of spinach and 100 calories worth of chocolate? The type of food must matter, so it can't be strictly the calories that control your weight right?

    In terms of your overall health and fitness, the spinach would be better for you than the chocolate. But strictly in terms of weight loss, you could eat either one and it wouldn't make a difference. Weight loss is calories in, calories out. Doesn't matter where those calories come from as long as it's the right amount. But like I said, if you want your body composition to be awesome when you lose, and if you want to be healthy, you would have to work in some healthier food.
  • GreenyLeany
    GreenyLeany Posts: 9
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    Interesting... thank you for the comments! :)
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Additionally, protein and fat are of much greater physiological importance than carbohydrates. Typically when calories need to be reduced, it usually makes sense to reduce carbs in order to create the necessary energy deficit -- but obviously this is still dependent on context.
  • FitFabFlirty92
    FitFabFlirty92 Posts: 384 Member
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    Additionally, protein and fat are of much greater physiological importance than carbohydrates. Typically when calories need to be reduced, it usually makes sense to reduce carbs in order to create the necessary energy deficit -- but obviously this is still dependent on context.

    That's true, but only to an extent. After all, vegetables have great nutritional value and are also carbs. So it's not entirely accurate to say your body needs carbs less than protein or fat. If that were true, why would eating vegetables to achieve optimal health and fitness be pushed on dieters so much?
  • Shadowknight137
    Shadowknight137 Posts: 1,243 Member
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    Carbs are calories; lowering them also lowers your total caloric intake... unless you do what a lot of low-carbers do and smear fat on everything thinking you can consume limitless calories.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Additionally, protein and fat are of much greater physiological importance than carbohydrates. Typically when calories need to be reduced, it usually makes sense to reduce carbs in order to create the necessary energy deficit -- but obviously this is still dependent on context.

    That's true, but only to an extent. After all, vegetables have great nutritional value and are also carbs. So it's not entirely accurate to say your body needs carbs less than protein or fat. If that were true, why would eating vegetables to achieve optimal health and fitness be pushed on dieters so much?

    I said that protein and fat are of greater physiological importance. There exist essential fatty acids and essential amino acids that your body cannot supply on it's own. Your body can produce glucose through gluconeogenesis which makes carbs a non-essential nutrient.

    EDIT: But obviously I would never suggest that anyone stop eating vegetables or eliminate carbs.
  • FitFabFlirty92
    FitFabFlirty92 Posts: 384 Member
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    Additionally, protein and fat are of much greater physiological importance than carbohydrates. Typically when calories need to be reduced, it usually makes sense to reduce carbs in order to create the necessary energy deficit -- but obviously this is still dependent on context.

    That's true, but only to an extent. After all, vegetables have great nutritional value and are also carbs. So it's not entirely accurate to say your body needs carbs less than protein or fat. If that were true, why would eating vegetables to achieve optimal health and fitness be pushed on dieters so much?

    I said that protein and fat are of greater physiological importance. There exist essential fatty acids and essential amino acids that your body cannot supply on it's own. Your body can produce glucose through gluconeogenesis which makes carbs a non-essential nutrient.

    EDIT: But obviously I would never suggest that anyone stop eating vegetables or eliminate carbs.

    That still doesn't explain why most doctors you speak to and many studies you read will say you need the nutrition that vegetables, a carbohydrate, provide. I'm not saying fats and proteins aren't important, because they are -- I'm saying all three matter and we need to stop making one out of the three this enemy food that needs to be avoided. If what you were saying made sense, there would be no point in eating healthy carbs, and medical evidence points to the fact that eating those things does improve your health.

    Edit: Read your edit just now after posting my response. :) Ignore the above, lol.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Additionally, protein and fat are of much greater physiological importance than carbohydrates. Typically when calories need to be reduced, it usually makes sense to reduce carbs in order to create the necessary energy deficit -- but obviously this is still dependent on context.

    That's true, but only to an extent. After all, vegetables have great nutritional value and are also carbs. So it's not entirely accurate to say your body needs carbs less than protein or fat. If that were true, why would eating vegetables to achieve optimal health and fitness be pushed on dieters so much?

    I said that protein and fat are of greater physiological importance. There exist essential fatty acids and essential amino acids that your body cannot supply on it's own. Your body can produce glucose through gluconeogenesis which makes carbs a non-essential nutrient.

    EDIT: But obviously I would never suggest that anyone stop eating vegetables or eliminate carbs.

    That still doesn't explain why most doctors you speak to and many studies you read will say you need the nutrition that vegetables, a carbohydrate, provide. I'm not saying fats and proteins aren't important, because they are -- I'm saying all three matter and we need to stop making one out of the three this enemy food that needs to be avoided.

    Here is where you are confusing my statement with typical ignorant low-carb dogma (read: I agree with your bold part above, but you are assuming that I'm saying things that I am not saying):

    I am not advocating low carb diets (although, there ARE some people that would benefit from them and it is not a dangerous approach when done intelligently). I am not suggesting that carbs are evil. Obesity is caused by overconsumption of energy over time. Carbs are your friend and because of the micronutrients they provide, you should probably eat them. I eat 250-300g/day in carbs.


    If what you were saying made sense, there would be no point in eating healthy carbs, and medical evidence points to the fact that eating those things does improve your health.

    I don't see where you are drawing this conclusion. My original statement was that usually when someone decides to restrict calorie intake (they are overweight, they are learning about nutrition, and they need to create an energy deficit), it makes sense to draw most of the deficit from carbohydrate. I would further conclude that most people, when they start to learn about proper nutrition, learn that they also should increase protein intake due to LBM retention. This further drives CHO intake downwards because you have to make up for that caloric increase in protein.

    This is a risk I take for saying "usually" because we're arguing without context. I'm going to make the assumption, that I believe is fair, that the majority of obese people are consuming a diet that is hypercaloric (this is an obvious one) and they are also consuming plenty of carbs, and I'd further speculate they are not consuming enough protein. I'm not going to make the statement that this is the case with all obese people. I think this is the case with "most" obese people.

    This does not make carbs the enemy. Carbs are not causing people to be fat. Hypercaloric intake is causing people to be fat. It just so happens that, the math works out such that if you tell Bob to reduce his caloric intake by 1200 to get him to a reasonable deficit, and you tell him that he should also bump his protein up to 150g, he's going to need to put down the donuts (reduce CHO).
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
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    Additionally, protein and fat are of much greater physiological importance than carbohydrates. Typically when calories need to be reduced, it usually makes sense to reduce carbs in order to create the necessary energy deficit -- but obviously this is still dependent on context.

    That's true, but only to an extent. After all, vegetables have great nutritional value and are also carbs. So it's not entirely accurate to say your body needs carbs less than protein or fat. If that were true, why would eating vegetables to achieve optimal health and fitness be pushed on dieters so much?

    I said that protein and fat are of greater physiological importance. There exist essential fatty acids and essential amino acids that your body cannot supply on it's own. Your body can produce glucose through gluconeogenesis which makes carbs a non-essential nutrient.

    EDIT: But obviously I would never suggest that anyone stop eating vegetables or eliminate carbs.

    That still doesn't explain why most doctors you speak to and many studies you read will say you need the nutrition that vegetables, a carbohydrate, provide. I'm not saying fats and proteins aren't important, because they are -- I'm saying all three matter and we need to stop making one out of the three this enemy food that needs to be avoided.

    Here is where you are confusing my statement with typical ignorant low-carb dogma (read: I agree with your bold part above, but you are assuming that I'm saying things that I am not saying):

    I am not advocating low carb diets (although, there ARE some people that would benefit from them and it is not a dangerous approach when done intelligently). I am not suggesting that carbs are evil. Obesity is caused by overconsumption of energy over time. Carbs are your friend and because of the micronutrients they provide, you should probably eat them. I eat 250-300g/day in carbs.


    If what you were saying made sense, there would be no point in eating healthy carbs, and medical evidence points to the fact that eating those things does improve your health.

    I don't see where you are drawing this conclusion. My original statement was that usually when someone decides to restrict calorie intake (they are overweight, they are learning about nutrition, and they need to create an energy deficit), it makes sense to draw most of the deficit from carbohydrate. I would further conclude that most people, when they start to learn about proper nutrition, learn that they also should increase protein intake due to LBM retention. This further drives CHO intake downwards because you have to make up for that caloric increase in protein.

    This is a risk I take for saying "usually" because we're arguing without context. I'm going to make the assumption, that I believe is fair, that the majority of obese people are consuming a diet that is hypercaloric (this is an obvious one) and they are also consuming plenty of carbs, and I'd further speculate they are not consuming enough protein. I'm not going to make the statement that this is the case with all obese people. I think this is the case with "most" obese people.

    This does not make carbs the enemy. Carbs are not causing people to be fat. Hypercaloric intake is causing people to be fat. It just so happens that, the math works out such that if you tell Bob to reduce his caloric intake by 1200 to get him to a reasonable deficit, and you tell him that he should also bump his protein up to 150g, he's going to need to put down the donuts (reduce CHO).
    yeah this. he knows his stuff
  • GreenyLeany
    GreenyLeany Posts: 9
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    I still have the same question about sugar though... I just can't believe that 100 calories worth of chocolate or something is equal to 100 calories of something like spinach in terms of weight loss. I just don't see how this is possible; the ingredients must pose a different affect on the body and cause the sugary one to lead to greater fat stores despite the amounts being equal in calories. Am I right?
  • VelociMama
    VelociMama Posts: 3,119 Member
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    I still have the same question about sugar though... I just can't believe that 100 calories worth of chocolate or something is equal to 100 calories of something like spinach in terms of weight loss. I just don't see how this is possible; the ingredients must pose a different affect on the body and cause the sugary one to lead to greater fat stores despite the amounts being equal in calories. Am I right?

    What you're talking about here is a common diet myth that sugar turns into fat in the body. 10 years ago, people said the same thing about carbs (all of them), and before that it was "fat makes you fat" etc. It's been proven to be false unless you are eating at a caloric surplus (more than what you burn) or have a metabolic disorder or a medical issue like diabetes or insulin resistance.

    Some good resources to read:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/category/nutrition/nutrition-fundamentals
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss

    It's a LOT of info to take in, but it's worth educating yourself about the real science behind nutrition and fitness if you're going to make long-term changes.

    Also, SideSteel's post is excellent above.

    To directly answer your question, no. 100 calories of spinach has the same caloric-value as 100 calories of chocolate. What's different is the micronutrient profile (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and macronutrient profile (carbs, fats, protein). Total calories are what matter for weight loss. For health, fitness, and wellness, micro- and macro- nutrients matter. Ideally for long-term health, wellness, and success, you'll want to eat home-cooked meals from whole food items balanced with lots of fruit, vegetables, and lean proteins as often as possible within your calorie goals, but it is very possible to drop weight eating nothing but junk food.

    Particularly, this article explains a lot of what SideSteel and other posters have been talking about: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html
  • JosephVitte
    JosephVitte Posts: 2,039
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    This has been the most intelligent thread I've ever read on MFP. I appreciate the back and forth.................I am beyond what you'd call a beginner................in the diet knowledgeable world, but I did read all the postings, and I feel I'm "clicking" away a tad bit more informed man, so that possibly makes me a tad bit smarter..............which means, I think I learned a little something here. Thanks guy's, I'd love to hear a little more about this interesting topic.
  • GreenyLeany
    GreenyLeany Posts: 9
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    What can I say? i've made the most in-depth post on here! :)
  • JosephVitte
    JosephVitte Posts: 2,039
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    lol.......................well....................that was my opinion...................doesn't make me right.............persay..............but good job..........I doubt you even expected the responses you got, lol!
  • VelociMama
    VelociMama Posts: 3,119 Member
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    What can I say? i've made the most in-depth post on here! :)

    It's a really good question! :smile:
  • wellbert
    wellbert Posts: 3,924 Member
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    100 calories of spinach has the same caloric-value as 100 calories of chocolate.

    But 100 calories of meat doesn't provide the same caloric value as 100 calories of bread.
  • GreenyLeany
    GreenyLeany Posts: 9
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    I didn't! I'm totally relearning everything I knew. I thought I had it all down, but now I'm adjusting to some new nutrition-nerd glasses! Keep telling me more guys, this is so interesting :)

    Btw, over time, eating junk (even in the right amount of calories) would eventually lead to health problems that impact your immune system and metabolism though, wouldn't it? You can't say sugar has no impact on metabolism... and then there's all that insulin resistant starch stuff I'm still figuring out.
  • GreenyLeany
    GreenyLeany Posts: 9
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    See wellbert, that's the part I'm figuring out. The differences in foods... and how some foods are equally caloric while others seem to be off balance even in the same amount of calories.

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