Detailed Plateau

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DanaDark
DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
WARNING: Long post... sorry, but I feel I should be as detailed as possible for the best advice.

So, I started July 13, 2012 and reviewed tons of information posted by some very knowledgeable people on here. I had great success. More than I ever have had. It was truly great. This is what I was doing:

1. Eating 1350 calories a day
2. Strength training at the gym 2 to 3 times a week for 45 minutes
3. 25 minute walk 5 times a week and another 66 minute walk 3 times a week
4. I'd only go out drinking once every 2 weeks

This resulted in steady weight loss up to August 29, 2012. The weight loss was usually about 1 pound a week. Was more at the beginning but seemingly due to extra water weight. I started at 139.8 pounds and got down to 129.0 pounds.

Since then, I started going out more. Significantly more. I still kept to my calories and did my exercises though. But, my weight would not budge. Instead, it went up a tiny bit and I would just hover between 130.5 and 131.5. So, this is what I have tried:

1. Lowered my calories to 1300 for 2 weeks
2. Raised my calories to 1500 for 2 weeks
3. Upped my exercise
4. Stopped my exercise

Absolutely no change. Scale stayed bouncing between 130.5 and 131.5.

So, for the past 2.5 weeks, I have returned to my previous setting of going out only 1 time every 2 weeks. I figured maybe my cortisol levels were too high due to lack of sleep. Alcohol prevents the body from entering REM sleep, which has made sleeping difficult for me overall. But, I am going to bed earlier now and as of yesterday, think my sleeping is back on track to being normalized. Feeling the best I have been in months in the morning.

Once I started sleeping more, my weight dropped down to 129.6 over the course of the first week. Since then (the last 10 days) it has stayed exactly at 129.6.

Now that my sleeping has seemingly been restored to normal, I plan on returning to the gym for my 2 to 3 times a week weight lifting sessions at 5am Monday-Wednesday-Friday is planned.

My stats are:
Sex: Male
Height: 5 foot 3.75 inches
Weight: 129.6 pounds
Body Fat %: 13% (Hand Held Electrical Impedance device as well as Military Body Fat calculator)
BMR: 1500
TDEE: 1800 (Desk job)

My goal is 121 pounds / 8% body fat. Once that is achieved I want to switch to gaining muscle via increasing my weights at the gym and going to a slight calorie surplus (150 to 200). Once my body fat percentage gets up to 12%, plan is to then reduce weight till back at 8%. Rinse and repeat until I am roughly 130 pounds with a lower body fat percentage. I have read in a few places it is advised to get under 10% body fat before trying to "bulk".

Okay, whew... so much said! But now for my questions!

1. Am I doing something blaring obviously wrong? I am baffled as to why my weight loss literally stopped.
2. Should I NOT go for the lower weight and just eat roughly maintenance and go for more muscle mass now?
3. Advice on getting the weight moving again? Part of me wants to drop calories to dangerous levels and cardio myself to death... but my brain tells me that won't work lol.

Anyway, if you've made it this far, I thank you so much for reading and will gladly accept any support and/or advice!
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Replies

  • bhankiii
    bhankiii Posts: 217 Member
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    I see the problem - you're insane. You're asking your body to get to 8% body fat which is way way way below normal. It may be that the body you want is not obtainable given the body you were born with (it would certainly not be obtainable for me). Why don't you redefine your goals? At 130 pounds you don't need to lose weight, you just need to build muscle. Your TDEE is 1800, so you should be eating 1800 calories a day, plus whatever additional calories you burn in your strength training. Why don't you try that for a couple of months (2 weeks in any routine is not enough to know if it works) and see how your body responds. Eat more, exercise more, build your metabolic fire and concentrate on adding muscle rather than losing fat. When you've added 10 or 20 pounds of muscle that little bit of fat you carry may not bother you anymore.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    Thanks Bhankii. Me... insane?! NEVER!!! lol. No, I am fully aware of my slight neurosis.

    At 130 right now, I still have areas of obvious fat. Still have a slight jiggle to me going up and down the stairs. And absolutely no definition (in part due to not having much in the way of muscle). In my early 20's I was between 110 and 120.

    So, the stuff I have read before about suggesting being under 10% body fat before trying to bulk up isn't a good idea?

    Also keep in mind my height... 5'3.75" isn't exactly pushing the upper echelons of man-beast lol.
  • cedarghost
    cedarghost Posts: 621 Member
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    What kind of strength training do you do and how often do you switch up your program?
  • savlov30
    savlov30 Posts: 233 Member
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    Have you ever thought of doing a cleanse or just changing your routine up. Your body may have became accustomed to your routine. Change what you eat, maybe not the calories. Change your workout. I am not male, but why can't you bulk up now?
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    What kind of strength training do you do and how often do you switch up your program?

    Normally I do...

    Dumbbell bench press
    Leg press
    Lat pull down
    Calf raises
    Triceps pull-down
    Dumbbell biceps curls

    I shoot for 3 sets of between 8 and 10 reps before increasing the weight. As for switching it up, I try some other exercises here and there, but do not feel nearly as good of a work out with them so they rarely stay on. My #1 in the gym is safety, as without a spotter I do not want to injure myself.
  • kooltray87
    kooltray87 Posts: 501 Member
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    If you build muscle, fat loss will come....lol but no really increase your weight training and you'll be surprised by you're body transformation. Just think, would you rather lack fat and be skinny or be RIPPED and look hot! lol
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    If you build muscle, fat loss will come....lol but no really increase your weight training and you'll be surprised by you're body transformation. Just think, would you rather lack fat and be skinny or be RIPPED and look hot! lol

    Actually I'd prefer to be skinny and then gain some muscle, rather than gain muscle while still holding a decent amount of extra fat.

    I COULD switch up to try and build muscle now, but as I mentioned, from what I read, it was advised to be under 10% body fat before switching to building muscle. One of my questions was if that advice was misleading/incorrect and if I should just switch now.

    All that said, it still doesn't exactly explain the plateau and the lack of any further weight loss.
  • MinnieInMaine
    MinnieInMaine Posts: 6,400 Member
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    I see the problem - you're insane. You're asking your body to get to 8% body fat which is way way way below normal. It may be that the body you want is not obtainable given the body you were born with (it would certainly not be obtainable for me). Why don't you redefine your goals? At 130 pounds you don't need to lose weight, you just need to build muscle. Your TDEE is 1800, so you should be eating 1800 calories a day, plus whatever additional calories you burn in your strength training. Why don't you try that for a couple of months (2 weeks in any routine is not enough to know if it works) and see how your body responds. Eat more, exercise more, build your metabolic fire and concentrate on adding muscle rather than losing fat. When you've added 10 or 20 pounds of muscle that little bit of fat you carry may not bother you anymore.

    I agree with this and would also add that you make sure your protein intake is at least 110 grams per day (1g per pound of LBM)
  • cedarghost
    cedarghost Posts: 621 Member
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    I would try switching up to Metabolic Resistance Training. You can/will build muscle while doing it, but the main thing it does is really stokes your metabolic (fat-burning) furnace. Try to use some exercises you don't normally do when your switch it up. This will force your body to adapt. I normally switch my routine up every 8 weeks or so.
    Here is a good website to get you started looking at some MRT workouts if you are interested: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/metabolic-resistance-training-build-muscle-torch-fat.html
    You may just shock your muscles into growth which in turn will help burn even more fat.
    Oh, you may want to throw in a day or two of HIIT a week two. WAY better at burning fat than regular cardio.
  • MinnieInMaine
    MinnieInMaine Posts: 6,400 Member
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    What was the logic behind the advice that you received? I see plenty of people lifting heavy weights almost exclusively (and therefore building muscle) as exercise at various stages of weight loss from obese to "close to goal" and not waiting to get to a certain BF% first. You may not see as much definition with some remaining body fat but I don't see that as a reason to put off building muscle.

    I'm not quite sure you're in starvation mode but you may be close to it. You're eating well below your BMR and are pretty close to your weight goal so your body may be unwilling to give up its fat stores with the calorie defiicit you're currently under. I would at least try eating at 1500 for another month if you're not willing to go as high as 1800...or split the difference and go with 1650. The more you take in, the more your body is willing to give up. Sounds backwards but I know you're around the boards a lot and see all the folks having success with Eat More to Weigh Less so you know it can work!
  • hamstermann
    hamstermann Posts: 58 Member
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    Drink more water. If you're dehydrated, your body holds onto fat more. And if you're not dehydrated, the water helps flush the fat out. I do much better with weight loss when water is the only thing I drink.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    Well, the consensus seems to be that I should throw on some muscle for a while and then try to lose fat if I find myself gaining too much fat weight as the muscle comes on.

    I planned to go to the gym tomorrow anyway, so guess I will go ahead and try to eat maintenance (1800) today and then starting tomorrow do 1900 to 2000 with a trip to the gym.

    I won't lie. I am scared of gaining fat... and scared of seeing the scale go up... horrified even lol. But, will give this a go.

    Still not sure as to WHY the extra weight left hasn't come off. =/
  • Kaiukas
    Kaiukas Posts: 111 Member
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    Actually I'd prefer to be skinny and then gain some muscle, rather than gain muscle while still holding a decent amount of extra fat.

    I am not at all trying to pick on you, but have you considered that you may be suffering from the body dysmorphic disorder? If you refer to 8% body fat as 'decent amount of extra fat' then you may need some support to modify your body image. I am not for one moment suggesting that you would not benefit from strength training, I suspect you will. But in this case your body is wiser than your mind for refusing to part with the precious little fat you have left.

    It actually worries me that fat has become such a dirty word and we have become so fat-phobic. Our bodies NEEDS some fat:

    http://fun-fitness-and-flab.blog.co.uk/2009/10/09/the-role-of-fat-in-the-body-7132761/
  • mirthfuldragon
    mirthfuldragon Posts: 124 Member
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    Your weight routine could use a nice change-up too. If your gym has a power rack / squat cage, it is possible to lift huge weight without a spotter.

    If financially feasible, you might want to invest in some personal training sessions to learn how to perform the "big 5" compound lifts safely and correctly - bench press, squat, deadlift, overhead press, and bent-over row. You can try Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength for good guides. (Warning: both authors can't write at all, so you'll have to wade through several feet of written junk to get to the heart of the programs).

    The issue with the isolation lifts, like curls and any machine, is that they do just that - isolate. The movements are mostly unnatural and they do not engage the stabilizer and core muscles in the same way that the big compound lifts do. Since your goal is to gain muscle, focus on that - 13% body fat is perfectly fine. You'll see more definition quicker by building some major muscle strength and bulk by eating at a small surplus and hitting the weights.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    What was the logic behind the advice that you received? I see plenty of people lifting heavy weights almost exclusively (and therefore building muscle) as exercise at various stages of weight loss from obese to "close to goal" and not waiting to get to a certain BF% first. You may not see as much definition with some remaining body fat but I don't see that as a reason to put off building muscle.

    The advice wasn't to NOT strength train, but was to not look to make significant muscle gains. The idea was that a surplus is needed for muscle gains, but WHEN should you switch to a surplus? The advice I read was that at under 10% body fat is when males should switch to the surplus calories to build muscle mass. It was not to NOT strength train till under that percentage.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    So, the stuff I have read before about suggesting being under 10% body fat before trying to bulk up isn't a good idea?

    There is no real reason to wait. Mostly the reason for waiting until body fat is low is that the lower it is when you start the lower it will be when you are done. This allows you to keep a lean look for the whole bulk. But there is no reason you cant start at any BF level. A higher BF will probably make it easier to add some muscle. You will have energy stores to work from and the body wont be so quick to store fat if it already has a normal amount. 8-10% is tough to achieve and very hard to maintain. Chances are your body would add fat very quickly anyways once you started eating in a surplus if you started at such a low level.
  • Halleeon
    Halleeon Posts: 309 Member
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    I'm not an expert but some ideas are:

    1. Look into Primal lifestyle and ketosis (staying around 50-150g of carbs a day.) Although, just flipping thru a few days of your diary, looks like you stay around the 150 range on average... Perhaps try shooting for 50-75 carbs per day, and those only being from complex carbs (veggies) and skipping anything that comes from refined stuff or grains. I know I bloat a lot with grains, you might find you do too.

    2. You could try increasing your water - check out an online water calculator that takes environmental factors into account.http://nutrition.about.com/library/blwatercalculator.htm I know about.com isn't awesome for stead-fast information, but I think this calculator works just fine.

    3. Maybe you could try a totally different style of exercise for a bit..like pilates! Yes, it's mostly women in there, but I have seen some men go. There is also Yoga, which is pretty awesome. Maybe your body just needs "something different" by way of exercise to break the plateau. You can always keep doing your normal routine or go back to it later if it doesn't work. :)

    4. Clean foods only! Try eating nothing but clean foods for 30 days (to the best of your ability) and see if that helps. I know it does for me.

    5. Also, just keep in mind that it sounds like you are in that home stretch where losing the last pounds are super hard. Stay determined and don't be afraid to try new things and keep asking questions! You're doing great! :)
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    I am not at all trying to pick on you, but have you considered that you may be suffering from the body dysmorphic disorder? If you refer to 8% body fat as 'decent amount of extra fat' then you may need some support to modify your body image. I am not for one moment suggesting that you would not benefit from strength training, I suspect you will. But in this case your body is wiser than your mind for refusing to part with the precious little fat you have left.

    Actually I do suffer from BDD. I won't go into details about the incredibly strange and bazaar behaviors I have developed because of it. I am NOT looking for a sympathy party lol.

    8% wouldn't be "decent amount". 13% currently seems like it, as there are parts of me that still jiggle going up the stairs and areas I can easily grab a hold of... maybe it's my small hands!

    And to previous people, I drink 8 glasses of water a day (WATER not other drinks). And I also shoot for 30% of my calories from protein, roughly 110g ish.

    I am going to go ahead and switch to trying to gain muscle mass instead of losing these last few pounds I was after losing. It seems that my idea of being under 10% BF before switching was contrary to what everyone else here goes by! So, that was probably an issue.
  • cedarghost
    cedarghost Posts: 621 Member
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    I am telling you, you CAN build muscle and lose fat at the same time using MRT and HIIT. I am doing it. Granted I have higher body fat than you (currently 23%), but I have lost 7% body fat while gaining about 3 1/2 of lean mass in the last two months AND eating at a deficit.
    I don't know how much harder this will be at lower fat %, but I don't mind gaining or losing at a slow pace.
    If you're going to concentrate on building mass anyway, switch your program up. Give your body something new to adjust to. The link I gave you earlier is a great place to start. It has a lot of information about all different types of workouts.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    I am telling you, you CAN build muscle and lose fat at the same time using MRT and HIIT. I am doing it. Granted I have higher body fat than you (currently 23%), but I have lost 7% body fat while gaining about 3 1/2 of lean mass in the last two months AND eating at a deficit.
    I don't know how much harder this will be at lower fat %, but I don't mind gaining or losing at a slow pace.
    If you're going to concentrate on building mass anyway, switch your program up. Give your body something new to adjust to. The link I gave you earlier is a great place to start. It has a lot of information about all different types of workouts.

    I am excited about the idea of being able to lift more in time.

    While trying to lose fat, my strength increased up to a certain point... then I couldn't get stronger. I'd try and try and nope... would still be the same exact sets and reps with the same weights. I figured I had reached my current limit and would need to gain more muscle to be able to lift any heavier.

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