Power Squat recent lower back pain HELP

medennison123
medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Hey recently I have been having issues with my squat form. I have been constantly tweeking and trying to improve on my form. Ideally I would like To have a mid bar squat powerlifing style with less of a quad dominance, as opposed to an Olympic squat. After my strength sets for Jim Wendler 5/3/1 I decided to film a set of the assistance work as pain had cut my main lifts short.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up37O5tEEkY&feature=g-upl
5 or so weeks before pain I realized that I was squatting with the bar basically on my neck. So I have implemented little adjustments here and there. I was looking at my form seeing that my knees where shifting way to far in front of my toes. This meant I need to sit back more, which would put more stress on my back?

Any ideas?
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Replies

  • Plates559
    Plates559 Posts: 869 Member
    If no one else can help you out I'll give this video a look when I get home in about an hour.

    I use a low barbell positioning with a medium stance. I power lift, last competition was just 2 weeks ago.
  • McBully4
    McBully4 Posts: 1,270 Member
    why are you doing box squats?
  • Plates559
    Plates559 Posts: 869 Member
    why are you doing box squats?

    Haven't seen the video but why not?
    Lewie Simmons teaches the box squat. Tate and Wendler swear by it.
  • McBully4
    McBully4 Posts: 1,270 Member
    they just look awkward in the video

    I've never done them and don't know a whole lot about them, I'm not criticizing the exercise, just curious the reason.
  • Plates559
    Plates559 Posts: 869 Member
    How I would fix things:

    1. Don't take so many steps to get into position. Unrack - step step step - squat
    2. Set your box slightly lower, you want to break parallel
    3. Don't actually rest your weight onto the box, touch and go
  • McBully4
    McBully4 Posts: 1,270 Member
    yea. he sits then shifts his hips forward to stand back up, I think(i'm no expert on box squats) this is grinding the lower back a bit.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    Thanks man. Feel free to PM me.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    How I would fix things:

    1. Don't take so many steps to get into position. Unrack - step step step - squat
    2. Set your box slightly lower, you want to break parallel
    3. Don't actually rest your weight onto the box, touch and go

    Touch and go/ stopping and exploding are just different types. Ya less steps.

    I get pain on regular squats as well. Its really hurting my game.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    why are you doing box squats?

    To ensure depth and to sit back more to engage the hips. The bench could be a quarter inch lower but that is all I have to work with.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    this is more of the form I want

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up37O5tEEkY&feature=g-upl
  • Plates559
    Plates559 Posts: 869 Member
    That was the same exact video
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    That was the same exact video

    just realized that

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZgwB5IF-hM&playnext=1&list=PLfDn3_ZaOX63YbRuIhJtV2MMA9LB_CwDl&feature=results_main
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    break at the hips first not the knees

    And if you're back is hurting then don't do them! There is nothing inherently wrong with the form but persisting through nagging injuries is a great way to make them a lot worse. Trust me :(

    Try some bulgarian split squats with dbs to give you're back some rest if need be.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    break at the hips first not the knees

    And if you're back is hurting then don't do them! There is nothing inherently wrong with the form but persisting through nagging injuries is a great way to make them a lot worse. Trust me :(

    Try some bulgarian split squats with dbs to give you're back some rest if need be.

    Ive tweaked my back the last 3 Tuesday squat workouts. By Friday evening from stretching and foam rolling it is usually 90ish%. So my deadlift workout on friday feels amazing.

    Im guessing I messed up my back doing the regular sets. Might help if I filmed those.
  • FoxyMcDeadlift
    FoxyMcDeadlift Posts: 771 Member
    You dont look like you fully extend, you need more hip drive at the end of the lift, you are a bit awkward as you sit onto the bench, if you took that bench away, that final bomb might throw you off a bit. Like Chris said, if its still niggly three weeks later, you probably just need a deload, but if you're running 5/3/1 you probably have one worked in now.
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    The reason I use a box when teaching the squat is to force them to reach back with their butt, which causes them to keep their back straight and hip hinge correctly. You're walking back to far you end up straddling it. As others have said just touch, and for christ's sake you're miles too close to the bench.
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
    You dont look like you fully extend, you need more hip drive at the end of the lift, you are a bit awkward as you sit onto the bench, if you took that bench away, that final bomb might throw you off a bit. Like Chris said, if its still niggly three weeks later, you probably just need a deload, but if you're running 5/3/1 you probably have one worked in now.


    Also the bar is a bit high on the shoulders.
    Deload and start with full squats to get good form.
    If you need box after that then fine but get form first.
    Probably from you going down BONK! up....down BONK! UP....
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    You dont look like you fully extend, you need more hip drive at the end of the lift, you are a bit awkward as you sit onto the bench, if you took that bench away, that final bomb might throw you off a bit. Like Chris said, if its still niggly three weeks later, you probably just need a deload, but if you're running 5/3/1 you probably have one worked in now.

    Ya deload is next week. Hopefully I can solve it before next cycle.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    The reason I use a box when teaching the squat is to force them to reach back with their butt, which causes them to keep their back straight and hip hinge correctly. You're walking back to far you end up straddling it. As others have said just touch, and for christ's sake you're miles too close to the bench.

    Makes sense. Ill give it a go
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    You dont look like you fully extend, you need more hip drive at the end of the lift, you are a bit awkward as you sit onto the bench, if you took that bench away, that final bomb might throw you off a bit. Like Chris said, if its still niggly three weeks later, you probably just need a deload, but if you're running 5/3/1 you probably have one worked in now.


    Also the bar is a bit high on the shoulders.
    Deload and start with full squats to get good form.
    If you need box after that then fine but get form first.
    Probably from you going down BONK! up....down BONK! UP....

    Ill try and film a few sets of a regular squat with a few fixes.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    Louie Simmons suggests relaxing the hips at the bottom and then exploding. While Dave Tate says to stay tight. Two different schools. But at this point it does not really matter as I seem to be lacking in fundamentals.
  • ilovedeadlifts
    ilovedeadlifts Posts: 2,923 Member
    I think you need to stay tight on the box, but yes you will slightly relax the hips. It looks like you're losing tightness in your lower back and it rounds a bit when you rock on the box.

    I like box squats and think they're a good movement, but have you tried ditching them for a few weeks to see if pain subsides? Then we know what the culprit is.
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    From my little experience with squats (I do not box squat as I have no flexibility issues), it looks like you are not using your glutes to lift you back up, you are using your back...normal squats teach you to use your *kitten* to lift the weight back up...sitting down fully, you would need to bring your hips forward, engage those butt muscles and then go back up, or just squat so you touch the bench rather than sit down on it fully? Have no idea why you need the bench...
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    From my little experience with squats (I do not box squat as I have no flexibility issues), it looks like you are not using your glutes to lift you back up, you are using your back...normal squats teach you to use your *kitten* to lift the weight back up...sitting down fully, you would need to bring your hips forward, engage those butt muscles and then go back up, or just squat so you touch the bench rather than sit down on it fully? Have no idea why you need the bench...

    I use the bench as a box to box squat on. Box squatting is the best way to learn to squat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    I think you need to stay tight on the box, but yes you will slightly relax the hips. It looks like you're losing tightness in your lower back and it rounds a bit when you rock on the box.

    I like box squats and think they're a good movement, but have you tried ditching them for a few weeks to see if pain subsides? Then we know what the culprit is.

    I received the pain during regular squats about 10 min before this clip was filmed. So I used the box to try and fix it. Maybe filming the regular sets would have helped more.
  • ilovedeadlifts
    ilovedeadlifts Posts: 2,923 Member
    I think you need to stay tight on the box, but yes you will slightly relax the hips. It looks like you're losing tightness in your lower back and it rounds a bit when you rock on the box.

    I like box squats and think they're a good movement, but have you tried ditching them for a few weeks to see if pain subsides? Then we know what the culprit is.

    I received the pain during regular squats about 10 min before this clip was filmed. So I used the box to try and fix it. Maybe filming the regular sets would have helped more.

    you got some decent answers from the PL section of bb.com.

    I'd apply those tips and film some sets and repost a vid on there maybe.
  • medennison123
    medennison123 Posts: 191 Member
    I think you need to stay tight on the box, but yes you will slightly relax the hips. It looks like you're losing tightness in your lower back and it rounds a bit when you rock on the box.

    I like box squats and think they're a good movement, but have you tried ditching them for a few weeks to see if pain subsides? Then we know what the culprit is.

    I received the pain during regular squats about 10 min before this clip was filmed. So I used the box to try and fix it. Maybe filming the regular sets would have helped more.

    you got some decent answers from the PL section of bb.com.

    I'd apply those tips and film some sets and repost a vid on there maybe.

    Will do. Thanks man.
  • Plates559
    Plates559 Posts: 869 Member
    ^ 2nd the video update

    Also if you want to PL you don't HAVE to use a low barbell, but it is most beneficial.
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    I never had to use a box to learn to squat. But did you read what I noticed in your video? Nope, did not look like it, nevermind...
  • Plates559
    Plates559 Posts: 869 Member
    I never had to use a box to learn to squat. But did you read what I noticed in your video? Nope, did not look like it, nevermind...

    I don't think he actually used to box to learn to squat (nothing wrong with learning the box squat first). I used a goblet squat to learn how to squat. And the box squat isn't about addressing a flexability issue either. You say you have no idea why someone would need the bench(box) if you really don't know go LEARN why.

    Seeing as the guys at Westside Barbell (literally the strongest squatters in the world) all do it, and tell all other lifters to do it, I sure its ok for OP to do it.

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