Heavy Lifting & Maintainence v. Fat Loss Cals
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a_vettestingray
Posts: 654 Member
I originally posted this under NROL4W's Group, but I thouhgt I would cast a wider net for some information.
Hey All,
Quick question: I restarted NROL4W on 9/13 (as I quit halfway through Stage One over the summer due to vacation/work travel/etc. Anyways, when I first started it, I went with the recommended calories of: 2177 on lift days and 1935 on non-lift days. I didn't really see much change in body comp/weight during that time. When I restarted, I decided to eat at fat loss (-300 cals). It has now been almost four weeks and I am starting to see some awesome changes in body comp, but not weight or measurements.
However, now I am afraid that I am essentially doing cut and not really building muscle. I feel that for my particular situation (5'7, 128lbs, 33/27/35 measurements, 22% BF) I need to focus on building muscle so when I do get my BF down where I like it (18ish), I will have the physique I am longing for. Sooo, I suppose I should be eating at maintainence at the very least, but I am terrified I will undo all the visible gains I have made and be less motivated to continue since it took me sooooo long to lose 10lbs and a lil BF% in the first place! (It took me over a year to lose 10-12 lbs and stay there)
Does anyone have any ideas of what I should be doing at this point? Continue to eat at fat loss or go to maintainence?
Thanks!
Hey All,
Quick question: I restarted NROL4W on 9/13 (as I quit halfway through Stage One over the summer due to vacation/work travel/etc. Anyways, when I first started it, I went with the recommended calories of: 2177 on lift days and 1935 on non-lift days. I didn't really see much change in body comp/weight during that time. When I restarted, I decided to eat at fat loss (-300 cals). It has now been almost four weeks and I am starting to see some awesome changes in body comp, but not weight or measurements.
However, now I am afraid that I am essentially doing cut and not really building muscle. I feel that for my particular situation (5'7, 128lbs, 33/27/35 measurements, 22% BF) I need to focus on building muscle so when I do get my BF down where I like it (18ish), I will have the physique I am longing for. Sooo, I suppose I should be eating at maintainence at the very least, but I am terrified I will undo all the visible gains I have made and be less motivated to continue since it took me sooooo long to lose 10lbs and a lil BF% in the first place! (It took me over a year to lose 10-12 lbs and stay there)
Does anyone have any ideas of what I should be doing at this point? Continue to eat at fat loss or go to maintainence?
Thanks!
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Replies
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I originally posted this under NROL4W's Group, but I thouhgt I would cast a wider net for some information.
Hey All,
Quick question: I restarted NROL4W on 9/13 (as I quit halfway through Stage One over the summer due to vacation/work travel/etc. Anyways, when I first started it, I went with the recommended calories of: 2177 on lift days and 1935 on non-lift days. I didn't really see much change in body comp/weight during that time. When I restarted, I decided to eat at fat loss (-300 cals). It has now been almost four weeks and I am starting to see some awesome changes in body comp, but not weight or measurements.
However, now I am afraid that I am essentially doing cut and not really building muscle. I feel that for my particular situation (5'7, 128lbs, 33/27/35 measurements, 22% BF) I need to focus on building muscle so when I do get my BF down where I like it (18ish), I will have the physique I am longing for. Sooo, I suppose I should be eating at maintainence at the very least, but I am terrified I will undo all the visible gains I have made and be less motivated to continue since it took me sooooo long to lose 10lbs and a lil BF% in the first place! (It took me over a year to lose 10-12 lbs and stay there)
Does anyone have any ideas of what I should be doing at this point? Continue to eat at fat loss or go to maintainence?
Thanks!
If you want to build muscle, you're going to have to eat slightly above maintenance. Losing that shredded look is hard to deal with sometimes, but it will be worth it in the long run.0 -
You seem like you are at a very healthy weight and don't really need to lose as much as develop you muscle structure and get strong. I'd go back to the original plan from NROLFW. As a woman is id difficult but not impossible to gain muscle but as the previous poster said, you would need to eat at surplus but my real question is is getting bigger muscles really what you want to do? Or do you want to be stronger with lower body fat and a more defined muscle structure? if it's the later, bump up your calories to TDEE and keep up with the lifting. If it's the former, eat 500 calories (give or take) above TDEE and keep up with the lifting.0
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What you're doing is fine and very similar to what I am doing myself. Most of the time I'm at a 300-500 deficit while lifting as heavily as possible. It's done miracles for my fat loss progress while maintaining and sometimes building muscle/strength. I'd advise staying on your current plan for the next 6-8 weeks, then reevaluating from there.0
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Fat loss and gaining muscle is two different things. Ones a surplus, ones a deficit. Unfortunately, went you gain muscle you will also gain fat. Its why after you bulk you have to go through a cut phase. Ideally, you want to only add 10% of the weight as fat. When iwent through a bulk phase i only added 1 lb of fat of the 9 lbs. If you eat high in protein and lift, then you will be fine. After a few months, then do a cut phase 20% less than tdee.0
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You and I are very nearly identical in Body Stats! I can relate to how you feel about increasing intake too!! Arrrggghhhh I'm terrified!!
But, I'm doing it. I tell myself every day... "this meal is for my shoulders....Lats....glutes..." You get the idea?? I am RE training my brain to understand and accept the fact that food is fuel... and it is OK to see an increase on the scale... that is actually what my goal is for the next 5 months!
You should be able to view my diary...feel free to check it out, and critic away!! I welcome that. I've also altered my lifting strategies..... I've ditched the ego, and I am lifting only the amounts that allow me to find the mind/muscle connection right now and focus on properly using them....
Good luck, friend me if you like.... but, keep us posted as to your progress?0 -
You and I are very nearly identical in Body Stats! I can relate to how you feel about increasing intake too!! Arrrggghhhh I'm terrified!!
But, I'm doing it. I tell myself every day... "this meal is for my shoulders....Lats....glutes..." You get the idea?? I am RE training my brain to understand and accept the fact that food is fuel... and it is OK to see an increase on the scale... that is actually what my goal is for the next 5 months!
You should be able to view my diary...feel free to check it out, and critic away!! I welcome that. I've also altered my lifting strategies..... I've ditched the ego, and I am lifting only the amounts that allow me to find the mind/muscle connection right now and focus on properly using them....
Good luck, friend me if you like.... but, keep us posted as to your progress?0 -
Oops... Hit post before I wrote anything above, sorry. I am in a similar situation and just posted to my MFP friends to help me overcome the mental hurdle in efforts to shift from weight loss, as I am essentially at my GW of 137, to now focusing on adding muscle/decreasing fat. I also realize I may need to add more food in the form of protein and decrease some of my cardio sessions, yet again. As wjranch mentioned, I now look at food differently. I used to look at it to feed my emotions and I now look at it like, what does my body NEED, nutrient-wise, to fuel it properly. It really helps to make that mental shift.
Anyway, a great source of information that I find accurate and safe is the attached link. Take a look ad see... Remember, for us females, the concept of eating more is daunting, especially if we've struggled with being overweight.. There IS a difference this time... It's eating more for different reasons than we likely ate before... RELAX. If adding more calories doesn't work and you do gain weight, you KNOW what to do to reverse it... Toasts the great thing about out body... It will respond to what we do to it!
http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/0 -
Does anyone have any ideas of what I should be doing at this point? Continue to eat at fat loss or go to maintainence?
Ultimately I think you're going to have to deal with one of three options, just looking at this logically.
1) Keep cutting. You may end up looking skinnier than you'd like (not enough real estate)
2) Eat at maintenance. Recomp for a while but it might feel like you're spinning your wheels because the overall changes are less noticeable and I believe anecdotal evidence would suggest this isn't efficient.
3) Start bulking. You may end up looking fatter than you'd like.
I'm not aware of any other options and 1 or 3 will probably be the best choices, and regardless of which one you choose you're going to end up turning around and doing the other one right after it anyways, possibly more than once (you'd keep cycling these stages until you like the end product).
This is sort of my long-assed way of saying "pick one and get crackin'".0 -
^^^ spot on!Ultimately I think you're going to have to deal with one of three options, just looking at this logically.
1) Keep cutting. You may end up looking skinnier than you'd like (not enough real estate)
2) Eat at maintenance. Recomp for a while but it might feel like you're spinning your wheels because the overall changes are less noticeable and I believe anecdotal evidence would suggest this isn't efficient.
3) Start bulking. You may end up looking fatter than you'd like.
I'm not aware of any other options and 1 or 3 will probably be the best choices, and regardless of which one you choose you're going to end up turning around and doing the other one right after it anyways, possibly more than once (you'd keep cycling these stages until you like the end product).
This is sort of my long-assed way of saying "pick one and get crackin'".0 -
You have several options considering you are at a favorable 22% body fat: you can either continue cutting down to 18% or work your way to a bulk cycle. As SideSteel stated, regardless of which you'll do, you'll have to do the other eventually. If you keep cutting, you'll have to then do a bulk followed by another cut. If you start a bulk, you'll finish by doing a cut. However, you could end up doing a few cycles depending on how much lean body mass you wish to increase.
Women with your body fat % can expect to gain 1 lb of muscle for 1 lb of fat during a surplus in one month - that is an acceptable partitioning. Although there is a cap to 1 lb of muscle gain, there is none in fat gain. Thus, you should assume a modest surplus of 250 calories above TDEE to net the 2 lb gain per month. You realistically can set a 25% body fat percentage to cease the bulking cycle which would last 4 months. In this time you can gain 4 lbs of muscle vs 4 lbs of fat so that your weight will be 136 lbs. After, you can do a cut to reduce your body fat percentage down to 18% and do another bulk if you want more lean body mass.0 -
^ Good post.
Just some leisure reading that is fairly broad but Lyle gets into the idea of setting an upper and lower threshold for cutting/bulking, and since Lyle basically = win, I'll link it here:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html0 -
Lyle is certainly the man and one of the few great sources out there.0
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Thanks guys, you have been really helpful. I guess I will eat at maintenance to finish out stage one of the program, hoping to take advantage of noOb gains. Then during stage two I will focus on eating a bit more. On the subject of food...how is my diary looking? I know its to totally clean or anything, and I like craft beer...if it weren't for good beer, I would have a hot hod :happy:0
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You have several options considering you are at a favorable 22% body fat: you can either continue cutting down to 18% or work your way to a bulk cycle. As SideSteel stated, regardless of which you'll do, you'll have to do the other eventually. If you keep cutting, you'll have to then do a bulk followed by another cut. If you start a bulk, you'll finish by doing a cut. However, you could end up doing a few cycles depending on how much lean body mass you wish to increase.
Women with your body fat % can expect to gain 1 lb of muscle for 1 lb of fat during a surplus in one month - that is an acceptable partitioning. Although there is a cap to 1 lb of muscle gain, there is none in fat gain. Thus, you should assume a modest surplus of 250 calories above TDEE to net the 2 lb gain per month. You realistically can set a 25% body fat percentage to cease the bulking cycle which would last 4 months. In this time you can gain 4 lbs of muscle vs 4 lbs of fat so that your weight will be 136 lbs. After, you can do a cut to reduce your body fat percentage down to 18% and do another bulk if you want more lean body mass.
^^ Great info. Bookmarking this thread!0 -
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Bulk / Cut - do you use calipers and a scale to determine when to stop? I have read about upping to a certain BF%, etc when you bulk or lowering to a certain % when you cut, but do you determine it yourself with calipers? I need to get a pair, but I know the readings are only as good as the person doing them, and I would be a complete novice at it. Not sure if just being consistent with how I'm measuring will give me a % difference (bulk 5%, etc) like if a scale is 10 lbs off it doesn't matter if you go down 4 lbs, you have lost 4 lbs no matter what the actual number is......right now I've only had my BF tested once back in July with a BodPod. Not really an economical option to do very often (and its about 2 hrs away!)0
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Bulk / Cut - do you use calipers and a scale to determine when to stop? I have read about upping to a certain BF%, etc when you bulk or lowering to a certain % when you cut, but do you determine it yourself with calipers? I need to get a pair, but I know the readings are only as good as the person doing them, and I would be a complete novice at it. Not sure if just being consistent with how I'm measuring will give me a % difference (bulk 5%, etc) like if a scale is 10 lbs off it doesn't matter if you go down 4 lbs, you have lost 4 lbs no matter what the actual number is......right now I've only had my BF tested once back in July with a BodPod. Not really an economical option to do very often (and its about 2 hrs away!)
I'm beginning to think using the mirror is probably the best method once you get to the point that you can visually estimate within a percent or two.0 -
Bulk / Cut - do you use calipers and a scale to determine when to stop? I have read about upping to a certain BF%, etc when you bulk or lowering to a certain % when you cut, but do you determine it yourself with calipers? I need to get a pair, but I know the readings are only as good as the person doing them, and I would be a complete novice at it. Not sure if just being consistent with how I'm measuring will give me a % difference (bulk 5%, etc) like if a scale is 10 lbs off it doesn't matter if you go down 4 lbs, you have lost 4 lbs no matter what the actual number is......right now I've only had my BF tested once back in July with a BodPod. Not really an economical option to do very often (and its about 2 hrs away!)
I'm beginning to think using the mirror is probably the best method once you get to the point that you can visually estimate within a percent or two.
So for someone who is new at this and I really only have the one BF measurement, would you suggest getting another (I am down by about 15 lbs and many inches) and going from there? I'm just not sure my eyes are trained enough to know how I'd look at 22% vs say 24%0
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