Runners: Speed Training for Distance

KLo924
KLo924 Posts: 379 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I just completed my first marathon this past weekend (WOOHOO!). Now I think I have the bug - I'm ready to sign up for another in the spring. :)

I'm super slow, though, and want to work on my time. Up to now I've done jogging/walking intervals - I did 3min. jogging and 2min. walking for the marathon, and usually do anywhere from 3-6min. jogging/1-2min. walking for shorter runs. In addition to simply adding more jogging time, I know there are lots of speed training methods out there - I'm curious what worked/works for you.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice :drinker:
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Replies

  • arc918
    arc918 Posts: 2,037 Member
    My $.02: you don't speed, you need endurance. Work on running without walk breaks. Once you can run for 8 or 10 miles without stopping, then you can add in some speedwork.
  • RunMyOregonBunsOff
    RunMyOregonBunsOff Posts: 862 Member
    My $.02: you don't speed, you need endurance. Work on running without walk breaks. Once you can run for 8 or 10 miles without stopping, then you can add in some speedwork.

    Totally agree!
  • sevsmom
    sevsmom Posts: 1,172 Member
    I'm of like mind with the other commentors. I'm only doing half marathons right now, but I'm all about nailing the distance and then adding speed. I'll be working on speed for my spring race. But, I have picked a distance. . .worked to be able to complete it. . .and then focussed on doing it faster.
  • gmallan
    gmallan Posts: 2,099 Member
    I'm no expert but I tend to disagree with the posts in here. I'm training for a half marathon and think that sprint work is an important part of that training. I do minimum 2 sprint sessions a week and one long slower run on the weekend. This doesn't mean that you are focusing on speed but sprint work can increase your endurance. HIIT has been shown to be just as, or more effective for increasing endurance as longer steady state runs.

    Just something interesting. Google 'Yasso's 800s'. It predicts that if you can run 10x800m in a certain time this will be your marathon time. I.e. 10x800m with each 800 done in 2min40sec would be a 2 hour 40second marathon time.
  • fittertanme
    fittertanme Posts: 259 Member
    I would try 5k running have a look at a website called parkrun and see your nearest park run and give it a go:drinker: :flowerforyou:
  • SomeoneSomeplace
    SomeoneSomeplace Posts: 1,094 Member
    My $.02: you don't speed, you need endurance. Work on running without walk breaks. Once you can run for 8 or 10 miles without stopping, then you can add in some speedwork.

    Agreed 100 percent!

    Find a speed you're comfortable with that you feel like you can somewhat easily keep up, stop taking walking breaks start off aiming for a 5K without stopping to walk. You'd be surprised how easily it comes when you learn to pace yourself
  • corys8646
    corys8646 Posts: 41 Member
    My $.02: you don't speed, you need endurance. Work on running without walk breaks. Once you can run for 8 or 10 miles without stopping, then you can add in some speedwork.
    Agree here also!

    HIlls, Intervals and tempo runs are all good workouts to increase speed.
  • arc918
    arc918 Posts: 2,037 Member
    I'm no expert but I tend to disagree with the posts in here. I'm training for a half marathon and think that sprint work is an important part of that training. I do minimum 2 sprint sessions a week and one long slower run on the weekend. This doesn't mean that you are focusing on speed but sprint work can increase your endurance. HIIT has been shown to be just as, or more effective for increasing endurance as longer steady state runs.

    Just something interesting. Google 'Yasso's 800s'. It predicts that if you can run 10x800m in a certain time this will be your marathon time. I.e. 10x800m with each 800 done in 2min40sec would be a 2 hour 40second marathon time.

    I respectfully disagree. All the HIIT in the world will not take the place of endurance. Also, 800 repeats (Yassos) are intervals, but not HIIT.
  • KLo924
    KLo924 Posts: 379 Member
    Thanks all! Some good points to think about.

    A little additional info: I can do a 5K without stopping, but that's about as much as I've tried. I've stuck with intervals on longer runs thus far to avoid knee injury (since I'm still pretty overweight) and to increase distance. I will definitely work on adding distance jogging, though. What many of you have said makes sense.

    Also, where I live there are zero hills (literally I'm on the highest part of the island where I live - about 5' up :wink: ). I'd have to travel a few hours to get to hills, but I try to get in lots of strength training to help balance that problem. <-- other suggestions for this while I have your attention?
  • wolfgate
    wolfgate Posts: 321 Member
    OP - given the novice level you described, the most effective way for you to increase speed is to run more miles. Build a bigger base, run a higher peak on your biggest mile weeks, add additional long runs. Over time work on decreasing the walk interval, but even if you don't more miles will increase the pace of your running portion. Greater endurance = greater speed.

    If you find it fun to run faster and want to do some intervals to do so, fine. It is enjoyable. But don't sacrifice increasing miles in order to do the intervals. The miles are where you are going to see improvement.

    The day will come where you're getting close to the max amount of time you're willing/able to spend running. Then tempo runs and other speedwork become more valuable.
  • meeper123
    meeper123 Posts: 3,347 Member
    hey at least you can do a marathon LOL I am just getting back into running and I am good to run 10 mins straight lol I am building it back slowly any advice please send me a message :D i will be looking at this again later I learned a lot thanks for posting this :D
  • Fred4point0
    Fred4point0 Posts: 160 Member
    Hill training, treadmill speed work, and joining a local pace group shaved 18 minutes off my half marathon split in only two weeks of training. I ran my first marathon this past September and clocked 4:25. My pace group has me set to run the L.A. Marathon in 3:16 in March. Maybe a pace group will work for you?
  • arc918
    arc918 Posts: 2,037 Member
    Thanks all! Some good points to think about.

    A little additional info: I can do a 5K without stopping, but that's about as much as I've tried. I've stuck with intervals on longer runs thus far to avoid knee injury (since I'm still pretty overweight) and to increase distance. I will definitely work on adding distance jogging, though. What many of you have said makes sense.

    Also, where I live there are zero hills (literally I'm on the highest part of the island where I live - about 5' up :wink: ). I'd have to travel a few hours to get to hills, but I try to get in lots of strength training to help balance that problem. <-- other suggestions for this while I have your attention?

    So work on adding on to that 5K perhaps half a mile at a time.

    As far as hills go, I've heard of runners going to multi-level parking garages in the early mornings (so there isn't any traffic). Also freeway overpasses or bridges might be an option too.

    Good luck!
  • TWrecks1968
    TWrecks1968 Posts: 138 Member
    I used to do intervals as part of my three days a week running routine. Tuesdays - intervals, Thursdays - Tempo run, and Saturdays - long run. I did find that my speed improved on my longer runs (eg. Half marathons). However, if age is an issue, and, with me it is, the risk for injury is greater.

    For me, my goal is to do the longer runs about 25% longer than the run I am racing. I am hoping that improves my time, while preventing injury.

    Ah, the joys of growing old.
  • Tiddy305
    Tiddy305 Posts: 6 Member
    Well done!
    Find a comfortable speed and vary your routes. Have routes that offer different landscapes and gradients.Make up your mind if you want a 20 minute hard slog or a 40 minute easy run. Increase your distance gradually, enjoy it though! When I was training sometimes a friend came along with me on a pushbike, that increases your breathing strength because of the conversation you have.
    Tiddy
  • pyrowill
    pyrowill Posts: 1,163 Member
    My $.02: you don't speed, you need endurance. Work on running without walk breaks. Once you can run for 8 or 10 miles without stopping, then you can add in some speedwork.

    Yup, what this man says.
  • SomeoneSomeplace
    SomeoneSomeplace Posts: 1,094 Member
    Thanks all! Some good points to think about.

    A little additional info: I can do a 5K without stopping, but that's about as much as I've tried. I've stuck with intervals on longer runs thus far to avoid knee injury (since I'm still pretty overweight) and to increase distance. I will definitely work on adding distance jogging, though. What many of you have said makes sense.

    Also, where I live there are zero hills (literally I'm on the highest part of the island where I live - about 5' up :wink: ). I'd have to travel a few hours to get to hills, but I try to get in lots of strength training to help balance that problem. <-- other suggestions for this while I have your attention?

    I recommend you slow it down then. Your pace for your 5K might be a bit too fast if you can't keep it up for more then 5k. What is your 5K time out of curiosity? My best 5K time was just over 26 minute (about an 8.5 minute mile) but when I'm doing distance, like let's say 10 miles, my pace slows way day to like a 10 minute mile because it's a pace I can keep up for a long time.
    Also I've found that the first 2 miles or so of my run are the worst. If you push past a 5K you might be pleasantly surprised as to how "easy" The middle of your run feels.
    For my speed days I just go out and do a 5K and try and do it as fast as I can but speed intervals are good too. Sprint for 1 minute (or 30 seconds), jog to recover, sprint, jog, spring etc until you feel like you're going to puke. Seriously you're going to feel like dying but slowly it gets easier. But I really think you should focus on endurance
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
    Yep. The way to decrease your time is to run more miles. The marathon is between 97% and 99% aerobic, so that is the system that you need to develop. This is done by running lots of slow, easy, conversational pace miles over time.

    I just finished my 3rd marathon last month. 85% of the miles I ran were at around a 9:30 pace. The other 15% were a combination of tempo runs that varied between 6:45 and 7:30 pace and once a week doing strides of 100 meters, usually 8 to 10. So, you can see, the vast majority of the mileage was done at an easy pace. Was this plan successful for me? I set a PR in the marathon by 14 minutes, running 3:12. I ran a 6:00 negative split. My overall pace was 7:17, right in the middle of where my tempo runs were. I ran the last 4 miles at 6:51 pace, right at the fastest end of my tempo runs.

    So, my easy runs were about two minutes per mile slower than my marathon pace. I think this is a pretty good illustration that running more slow, easy miles will make you faster.

    Good luck on your next one!
  • Doodlewhopper
    Doodlewhopper Posts: 1,018 Member
    I used to do intervals as part of my three days a week running routine. Tuesdays - intervals, Thursdays - Tempo run, and Saturdays - long run. I did find that my speed improved on my longer runs (eg. Half marathons). However, if age is an issue, and, with me it is, the risk for injury is greater.

    For me, my goal is to do the longer runs about 25% longer than the run I am racing. I am hoping that improves my time, while preventing injury.

    Ah, the joys of growing old.

    This (but run 4 days)
  • timboom1
    timboom1 Posts: 762 Member
    I'm no expert but I tend to disagree with the posts in here. I'm training for a half marathon and think that sprint work is an important part of that training. I do minimum 2 sprint sessions a week and one long slower run on the weekend. This doesn't mean that you are focusing on speed but sprint work can increase your endurance. HIIT has been shown to be just as, or more effective for increasing endurance as longer steady state runs.

    Just something interesting. Google 'Yasso's 800s'. It predicts that if you can run 10x800m in a certain time this will be your marathon time. I.e. 10x800m with each 800 done in 2min40sec would be a 2 hour 40second marathon time.

    I respectfully disagree. All the HIIT in the world will not take the place of endurance. Also, 800 repeats (Yassos) are intervals, but not HIIT.

    I agree with disagreeing, endurance first, speed last....most of your marathon speed will come from endurance not interval training. Yasso's are also only a good negative predictor, i.e. if you can't run 10 in 2:40 or less, you have no shot at a 2:40 marathon, but if you can do them it still doesn't mean you can run the time, unless you have the endurance which comes from building miles, not speed work.
  • arc918
    arc918 Posts: 2,037 Member
    I also say Yassos are a 100% accurate predictor of one's ability to run Yassos...
  • nphect
    nphect Posts: 474
    when i marathon trained, i did tempo run one week, then a speed workout the next, back and forth. i was logging about 40-65 miles a week with a long run once a week that was somewhere between 12-20 miles.
  • gmallan
    gmallan Posts: 2,099 Member
    I'm no expert but I tend to disagree with the posts in here. I'm training for a half marathon and think that sprint work is an important part of that training. I do minimum 2 sprint sessions a week and one long slower run on the weekend. This doesn't mean that you are focusing on speed but sprint work can increase your endurance. HIIT has been shown to be just as, or more effective for increasing endurance as longer steady state runs.

    Just something interesting. Google 'Yasso's 800s'. It predicts that if you can run 10x800m in a certain time this will be your marathon time. I.e. 10x800m with each 800 done in 2min40sec would be a 2 hour 40second marathon time.

    I respectfully disagree. All the HIIT in the world will not take the place of endurance. Also, 800 repeats (Yassos) are intervals, but not HIIT.

    If you read my post you will notice that I didn't actually say that 800 repeats were HIIT. I know the difference between HIIT and interval training. I wasn't even suggesting that the OP use Yasso's as marathon training just put it in there as an interesting thing that I had read about predicting marathon time.

    There is plenty of evidence to suggest that HIIT, hill work and sprint work is a good thing to include in training for endurance events. Obviously you need to do longer running, I'm not saying that isn't important.

    Have a look at this page as a good summary of some studies

    http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/hiit-vs-continuous-endurance-training-battle-of-the-aerobic-titans

    The conclusion

    Final Verdict: And the Winner of the Battle of the Aerobic Titans is . . .
    The major goals of most endurance exercise programs are to improve cardiovascular, metabolic and skeletal-muscle function in the body. For years, continuous aerobic exercise has been the chosen method for achieving these goals. However, research shows that HIIT leads to similar and, in some cases, better improvements in less time for some physiological markers. Incorporating HIIT (with appropriate intensity and frequency) into your clients’ cardiovascular training gives them a time-efficient way to reach their goals.

    And since both HIIT and continuous aerobic exercise programs improve all of these meaningful physiological and metabolic functions of the human body, incorporating a balance of both programs in clients’ training is clearly the “win-win” approach for successful cardiovascular exercise improvement and performance. Go HIIT and go endurance!
  • luv2run
    luv2run Posts: 54 Member
    One of my favorite speed workouts is doing fartleks or speedplay all you do is find landmarks that are on your route for example telephone poles or mailboxes and you run fast in between one set, then slow down for the next, then speed up, etc.. I love doing these because they are fun and easy to work into any route, Adding speedwork to your shorter routes will help with endurance during your long runs.
  • scorpio516
    scorpio516 Posts: 955 Member
    My $.02: you don't speed, you need endurance. Work on running without walk breaks. Once you can run for 8 or 10 miles without stopping, then you can add in some speedwork.

    +x

    If you REALLY want to do "speedwork", do mile repeats, like 4x1mile. But upping your mileage (SLOWLY) to 50-70 mpw will help your speed quite a bit more.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
    Final Verdict: And the Winner of the Battle of the Aerobic Titans is . . .
    The major goals of most endurance exercise programs are to improve cardiovascular, metabolic and skeletal-muscle function in the body. For years, continuous aerobic exercise has been the chosen method for achieving these goals. However, research shows that HIIT leads to similar and, in some cases, better improvements in less time for some physiological markers. Incorporating HIIT (with appropriate intensity and frequency) into your clients’ cardiovascular training gives them a time-efficient way to reach their goals.

    And since both HIIT and continuous aerobic exercise programs improve all of these meaningful physiological and metabolic functions of the human body, incorporating a balance of both programs in clients’ training is clearly the “win-win” approach for successful cardiovascular exercise improvement and performance. Go HIIT and go endurance!

    The OP didn't state that they were interested in the best endurance exercise program, but how to run a faster marathon. It's been proven time and again that a proper aerobic base is the key to improving marathon performance and the best way to build that base is to run lots of aerobic miles. If HIIT was the way to go Renato Canova's athletes would be doing it. They aren't.
  • kenleyj
    kenleyj Posts: 51 Member
    I'm no expert but I tend to disagree with the posts in here. I'm training for a half marathon and think that sprint work is an important part of that training. I do minimum 2 sprint sessions a week and one long slower run on the weekend. This doesn't mean that you are focusing on speed but sprint work can increase your endurance. HIIT has been shown to be just as, or more effective for increasing endurance as longer steady state runs.

    Just something interesting. Google 'Yasso's 800s'. It predicts that if you can run 10x800m in a certain time this will be your marathon time. I.e. 10x800m with each 800 done in 2min40sec would be a 2 hour 40second marathon time.

    Doing the Yasso 800's are a great way to gauge what your predicted marathon time COULD be, BUT granted you have the long runs in and endurance levels up.
  • pabscabs
    pabscabs Posts: 61 Member
    Thanks all! Some good points to think about.

    A little additional info: I can do a 5K without stopping, but that's about as much as I've tried. I've stuck with intervals on longer runs thus far to avoid knee injury (since I'm still pretty overweight) and to increase distance. I will definitely work on adding distance jogging, though. What many of you have said makes sense.

    Also, where I live there are zero hills (literally I'm on the highest part of the island where I live - about 5' up :wink: ). I'd have to travel a few hours to get to hills, but I try to get in lots of strength training to help balance that problem. <-- other suggestions for this while I have your attention?

    Firstly well done on your marathon.

    I'm no expert (and I don't want to be) but I did start my running about 3 years back using run/walk. In my opinion the best way for you to go without risking injury is to slowly increase the running time between walk breaks before you jump straight into running non stop. This will allow you to build endurance without overdoing it. Then transition into running the full distance. That will improve your times.

    It will also probably bring your running pace down (run/walkers tend to run at a higher pace than they should between walk breaks). I know I did. Don't get too disheartenend if the first few races when you run more and walk less are actually slower it will improve as you get stronger.

    You know better than anyone else what your body can cope with. Again only my opinion, but the only pace predictor for a marathon is a marathon. I think we have all lost some of the respect this distance deserves (me included). So well done. You finished and you're alive. (the first guy didn't make it)

    Pabs
  • kenleyj
    kenleyj Posts: 51 Member
    Congratulations on finishing your first marathon. That in itself is very life changing. Now that you have done one, you probably want to do it faster. You always PB the first race. The question is, how many 5ks, 10ks, and half marathons have you done? You are using the Galloway method to do your marathon. nothing wrong with that. However, I would strongly recommend that you increase your endurance first. Not to say that you can not incorporate some speed work into your micro cycles, but I would focus on building up the endurance. Starting with some key strategies such as a good diet, good sleep, and consistency. Even in the Galloway method, you can do what are called strides to increase your leg turnover and time. Again, a big Congratulations and good luck.
  • MissFit0101
    MissFit0101 Posts: 2,382
    My $.02: you don't speed, you need endurance. Work on running without walk breaks. Once you can run for 8 or 10 miles without stopping, then you can add in some speedwork.

    ^ This. I don't think speed work would be beneficial much if at all until you build up your endurance anyways. You will also find your speed will naturally pick up just by adding mileage. Congrats on finishing your first marathon!

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