LOW CARB MACRO'S + FAT INTAKE :/

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  • mgmlap
    mgmlap Posts: 1,377 Member
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    took a peek into your diary. I do think that you need to up your carbs. There are no fruits and veggies there..which are good carbs. I thnk you need to educate yourself as far as what are refined carbs as opposed to complex carbs.

    There are many caloricly dense foods that are high in fat..but the good kind...avocados, nuts, ect..
  • cthon98
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    took a peek into your diary. I do think that you need to up your carbs. There are no fruits and veggies there..which are good carbs. I thnk you need to educate yourself as far as what are refined carbs as opposed to complex carbs.

    There are many caloricly dense foods that are high in fat..but the good kind...avocados, nuts, ect..

    Good advice, telling someone who is doing a <20g carb diet (which works and is easy to maintain) to up their carbs.
  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
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    Net caloric intake is what matters, even on a low carb diet. If you eat 4000 calories of fat and protein, you will still get fat (most of the low-carb taliban denies this, but they are blissfully unaware of the body's most important metabolic pathway for fat, the acylation stimulation protein pathway, focusing exclusively on the secondary pathway of insulinogenic lipogenesis).

    OTOH, if you are eating at a caloric deficit, you can eat more or less whatever you want without negative health consequences.

    Also, I'd recommend shooting for ~50g carbs/day as a minimum to prevent muscle breakdown due to glucogenesis (your body needs glucose for your brain, and will break down muscle to get it if you don't have significant carb intake in your diet).

    I'm sure I'll get 20 people who have been unsuccessful at losing weight telling me that I am wrong about all of this, but whatever.

    As a side note, for 99% of people, low-carb dieting does not provide any weight loss benefit vs. just increasing the proportion of caloric intake that comes from protein. It starts being relevant at very low body fat percentages, but for most people the real benefits are that it makes it easier to increase protein intake, and as a result provides better satiety.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
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    Can you take a look at my dairy and see what you think of my daily fat intake, its worrying me... im on low carb so high fat is meant to be good... But surely higher carb and lower fat is better? as a balance.... Im unsure what is best?
    I would say your carbs are too low because the body needs some carbs to function well and I read that a more balanced diet works best for weight loss when it comes to also maximizing health benefits. For example: 40% carb 30% fat 30% protein or 50% carb 25% fat 25% protein. It can work any way of course, so if you want to do low carbs that's okay and you will lose still. I just personally have read that it has less positive health effects than other diets. I also think too high of fats can be not the best way to diet. I am writing a paper on this tonight, so if you want I can let you know what the research/medical journals I read say. xo
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
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    Net caloric intake is what matters, even on a low carb diet. If you eat 4000 calories of fat and protein, you will still get fat (most of the low-carb taliban denies this, but they are blissfully unaware of the body's most important metabolic pathway for fat, the acylation stimulation protein pathway, focusing exclusively on the secondary pathway of insulinogenic lipogenesis).

    OTOH, if you are eating at a caloric deficit, you can eat more or less whatever you want without negative health consequences.

    Also, I'd recommend shooting for ~50g carbs/day as a minimum to prevent muscle breakdown due to glucogenesis (your body needs glucose for your brain, and will break down muscle to get it if you don't have significant carb intake in your diet).

    I'm sure I'll get 20 people who have been unsuccessful at losing weight telling me that I am wrong about all of this, but whatever.

    As a side note, for 99% of people, low-carb dieting does not provide any weight loss benefit vs. just increasing the proportion of caloric intake that comes from protein. It starts being relevant at very low body fat percentages, but for most people the real benefits are that it makes it easier to increase protein intake, and as a result provides better satiety.
    This is true. It can similarly cause ketosis. I tried to lower my carbs while pregnant because a friend of mine did this and said it was okay and healthy, but my dr ended up telling me I was experiencing a release and increase of ketones in my system and ketosis. It depends, but for some people it doesn't work out.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
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    I'm doing low carb, and when I eat a high protein and high fat meal I am thinking to myself... Surely this isn't healthy,

    For example, Iv just had 2 Angus beef burgers with bacon and cheese, it was dripping in fat and it makes me question whether this is good for you? How can you loose weight in these circumstances... It seems to be working thou! But surely a banana is healthier than eating a lump of cheese/some peanut butter for a snack?

    Which leads onto my next question... Those of you doing low carb what is your calorie goal per day and Macros?

    **Especially how many grams of fat is a good amount?**

    CONFUSED!

    Oh my gosh makes me so sad. I know I can't change your mind but I've been there and done that.

    I've found that if I eat plain old good fashioned protein; meat, fish, poultry, dairy products, and eggs and just enough carbs to give me energy then the fat mostly falls into place and my diet ends up fairly balanced without much planning. Then just add in some fruits and veggies. It does not have to be perfect, just somewhat balanced. Focusing too hard on macros will not help you lose weight.

    Most of the time what you are embarking on will yield you some short term weight loss results, making you temporarily happy, and then it rebounds because it is not sustainable.

    You want to eat as healthy as you can because it makes you feel better and perform better, and makes you healthier. There are a bunch of tricks and clean eating; reducing sugar (especially HFCS), fiber, white flour vs whole grain, low carb, low fat, on and on. All that matters is calories for weight loss. If you need to eat a certain way for health reasons or to feel better do it, but extensive good food and bad food lists will drive you insane at some point, it’s a constantly moving target. Just eat what you like, mostly healthy, mostly balanced, within a calorie budget.



    These were the diets I tried and failed and did the diet yo-yo with for 15 years:

    Low fat high carb, Slim-Fast, Weight Watchers, Atkins, Organic, Weston Price Diet, The Schwarzbein Principle, Eat Fat Lose Fat, The Ultimate PH Solution, The Makers Diet, A friends diet from a personal trainer/dietician

    I finally just got sick of it all and made up my own diet with healthy foods I enjoy and smaller portions. I ate my meals from small desert plates and bowls. I stopped eating in the evenings (not that when you eat matters.) I started calling what I did mini-meals and mini-fasts and I lost 40 lbs. Then I found Eat Stop Eat and learned why it worked and everything took off for me at that point.

    Eat what you want, eat what you like, mostly healthy. Don’t deprive yourself of foods you love unless there is a serious health risk. Depriving yourself of food you love and creating extensive good food and bad food lists at some point borders on a mental disorder. It will drive you insane.
    I wanted to try Eat Stop Eat!
  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
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    This is true. It can similarly cause ketosis. I tried to lower my carbs while pregnant because a friend of mine did this and said it was okay and healthy, but my dr ended up telling me I was experiencing a release and increase of ketones in my system and ketosis. It depends, but for some people it doesn't work out.
    Ketosis is actually very helpful for losing body fat once free fatty acids are no longer available for metabolism (around 10% body fat for men and 18% for women). For people above that level, I have not seen any evidence that it produces faster fat loss than simple caloric restriction.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Net caloric intake is what matters, even on a low carb diet. If you eat 4000 calories of fat and protein, you will still get fat (most of the low-carb taliban denies this, but they are blissfully unaware of the body's most important metabolic pathway for fat, the acylation stimulation protein pathway, focusing exclusively on the secondary pathway of insulinogenic lipogenesis).

    OTOH, if you are eating at a caloric deficit, you can eat more or less whatever you want without negative health consequences.

    Also, I'd recommend shooting for ~50g carbs/day as a minimum to prevent muscle breakdown due to glucogenesis (your body needs glucose for your brain, and will break down muscle to get it if you don't have significant carb intake in your diet).

    I'm sure I'll get 20 people who have been unsuccessful at losing weight telling me that I am wrong about all of this, but whatever.

    As a side note, for 99% of people, low-carb dieting does not provide any weight loss benefit vs. just increasing the proportion of caloric intake that comes from protein. It starts being relevant at very low body fat percentages, but for most people the real benefits are that it makes it easier to increase protein intake, and as a result provides better satiety.

    Please advise if your angus is peppered.
  • Soula7475
    Soula7475 Posts: 12 Member
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    I am registered dietitan and I'm not going to get into the whole discussion about low carb diets (they can be pretty controversial)...I would say that if you choose to follow a low carb diet, don't forget your non starchy vegetables! It is very important to still have plenty of spinach, broccoli, kale, celery, lettuce, cucumbers, peppers etc. to help provide essential nutrients. These are practically calorie and carb free and will help your body healthy by contributing vitamins and fiber to your diet. You will feel better, trust me. Good luck!
  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
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    Please advise if your angus is peppered.
    Indubitably
  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
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    I am registered dietitan and I'm not going to get into the whole discussion about low carb diets (they can be pretty controversial)...I would say that if you choose to follow a low carb diet, don't forget your non starchy vegetables! It is very important to still have plenty of spinach, broccoli, kale, celery, lettuce, cucumbers, peppers etc. to help provide essential nutrients. These are practically calorie and carb free and will help your body healthy by contributing vitamins and fiber to your diet. You will feel better, trust me. Good luck!
    This is good advice for anyone on any diet!
  • cthon98
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    This is true. It can similarly cause ketosis. I tried to lower my carbs while pregnant because a friend of mine did this and said it was okay and healthy, but my dr ended up telling me I was experiencing a release and increase of ketones in my system and ketosis. It depends, but for some people it doesn't work out.

    you say "can cause ketosis" like that's a bad thing. It's not. It's not harmful in any way.
  • msshiraz
    msshiraz Posts: 327 Member
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    I have done every low carb diet out there- and I believe in the concept- it works, but I also know there are good fats and bad ones.
    On low carb for months- and went to dr for routine bloodwork- I had high cholesterol!! Not too bad, just outside the normal range- I had to contribute this to all the saturated fats- specific too, salad dressings.

    I do best with low carb, lean meats, not no beef, just maybe 1-2X a week, chicken, fish and lots and lots of veggies. I have my carbs before I work out- bananas with oatmeal- I try to keep the carbs all natural- doesn't always happen but it is what makes me lose weight and feel amazing! :)
  • cthon98
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    Also, I'd recommend shooting for ~50g carbs/day as a minimum to prevent muscle breakdown due to glucogenesis (your body needs glucose for your brain, and will break down muscle to get it if you don't have significant carb intake in your diet).

    I'm sure I'll get 20 people who have been unsuccessful at losing weight telling me that I am wrong about all of this, but whatever.

    As a side note, for 99% of people, low-carb dieting does not provide any weight loss benefit vs. just increasing the proportion of caloric intake that comes from protein. It starts being relevant at very low body fat percentages, but for most people the real benefits are that it makes it easier to increase protein intake, and as a result provides better satiety.

    How about someone who has been very successful telling you you're wrong about all this?

    Firstly, the brain doesn't need as much glucose as you seem to think it needs. A person in ketosis can power their brain almost entirely by ketones. The only time it's even going to look to muscle for something to break down is if you're in severe fasting and you don't have enough body fat or dietary fat for it to break down for that. Before that, glucogenesis is the breakdown of amino acids themselves, not specifically muscle.

    Next, most low carb diets that I've seen are low carb, high fat, not low carb high protein. Protein is fine and all, but it's not the key point here. It's also not where the satiety comes from.

    Also seriously, 99% of people it doesn't offer benefit? Tell that to me and the 33 pounds I've lost quite easily low carbing it. Tell that to a large community on /r/keto. Tell that to the still sizeable keto community on MFP.

    Feel free to take a browse through my diary and tell me how I'm doing it wrong, though.
  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
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    Also, I'd recommend shooting for ~50g carbs/day as a minimum to prevent muscle breakdown due to glucogenesis (your body needs glucose for your brain, and will break down muscle to get it if you don't have significant carb intake in your diet).

    I'm sure I'll get 20 people who have been unsuccessful at losing weight telling me that I am wrong about all of this, but whatever.

    As a side note, for 99% of people, low-carb dieting does not provide any weight loss benefit vs. just increasing the proportion of caloric intake that comes from protein. It starts being relevant at very low body fat percentages, but for most people the real benefits are that it makes it easier to increase protein intake, and as a result provides better satiety.

    How about someone who has been very successful telling you you're wrong about all this?

    Firstly, the brain doesn't need as much glucose as you seem to think it needs. A person in ketosis can power their brain almost entirely by ketones. The only time it's even going to look to muscle for something to break down is if you're in severe fasting and you don't have enough body fat or dietary fat for it to break down for that. Before that, glucogenesis is the breakdown of amino acids themselves, not specifically muscle.

    Next, most low carb diets that I've seen are low carb, high fat, not low carb high protein. Protein is fine and all, but it's not the key point here. It's also not where the satiety comes from.

    Also seriously, 99% of people it doesn't offer benefit? Tell that to me and the 33 pounds I've lost quite easily low carbing it. Tell that to a large community on /r/keto. Tell that to the still sizeable keto community on MFP.

    Feel free to take a browse through my diary and tell me how I'm doing it wrong, though.
    You're doing fine, and congrats on your results! Your caloric deficit is responsible for the weight loss though, not the low carb intake. If you keep your protein intake and net caloric intake constant, your weight loss will continue at the same rate if you replace some fat with carbs. You can try it and see for yourself if you like.

    Edit: you'll see initial weight gain of approximately 2 pounds per 200g of carbs as glycogen stores are replenished. For most people this amounts to 5-20 pounds of water weight.
  • MemphisKitten
    MemphisKitten Posts: 878 Member
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    New research is pointing toward processed food and carbs to causing insulin resistance. I'm not sure how healthy the meal you mentioned is, but make sure you eat lots of vegetables too. People who bash low carb should take a look at how many sugars and processed foods they are taking in. This is an issue that will continue to be debated.
  • firstsip
    firstsip Posts: 8,399 Member
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    Also, I'd recommend shooting for ~50g carbs/day as a minimum to prevent muscle breakdown due to glucogenesis (your body needs glucose for your brain, and will break down muscle to get it if you don't have significant carb intake in your diet).

    I'm sure I'll get 20 people who have been unsuccessful at losing weight telling me that I am wrong about all of this, but whatever.

    As a side note, for 99% of people, low-carb dieting does not provide any weight loss benefit vs. just increasing the proportion of caloric intake that comes from protein. It starts being relevant at very low body fat percentages, but for most people the real benefits are that it makes it easier to increase protein intake, and as a result provides better satiety.

    How about someone who has been very successful telling you you're wrong about all this?

    Firstly, the brain doesn't need as much glucose as you seem to think it needs. A person in ketosis can power their brain almost entirely by ketones. The only time it's even going to look to muscle for something to break down is if you're in severe fasting and you don't have enough body fat or dietary fat for it to break down for that. Before that, glucogenesis is the breakdown of amino acids themselves, not specifically muscle.

    Next, most low carb diets that I've seen are low carb, high fat, not low carb high protein. Protein is fine and all, but it's not the key point here. It's also not where the satiety comes from.

    Also seriously, 99% of people it doesn't offer benefit? Tell that to me and the 33 pounds I've lost quite easily low carbing it. Tell that to a large community on /r/keto. Tell that to the still sizeable keto community on MFP.

    Feel free to take a browse through my diary and tell me how I'm doing it wrong, though.

    It's always discouraging to see people think their anecdotal story, or their Swiss cheese information, makes them an expert.

    I AM doing low carb, however, saying that doing 20-30g of lower is sustainable and "nothing wrong" is misinformation. Most doctors and nutritionists advise only doing that for a limited amount of time... not for the rest of your life, and definitely not if you are upping cardio/strength training (or just including them, in general). Even the Paleo craze incorporates natural, complex carbs. Even the Atkins "diet" says to do such a low carb goal for no more than two weeks to a month.

    Eating 100g of carbs a day is much different than eating 20g.

    I know and have seen several people who've had success eating at such low carbs... but you need to take into account long term effects on your body.

    Lots of people have success losing weight at 1200 calories... but your body is not meant to be in a deficit for long periods of time. You WILL lower your immune system, you WILL run the risk of losing heart mass, altering hormones, etc.

    This issue is not just weight with low calorie, low carb, whatever macro plan you want: the issue is overall health.

    You don't have to go to eating 300g of carbs a day to "maintain," but you don't have to eat 20g and run a 5k or lift for an hour, either. Both of things can have possible detriments.

    Keep in mind, I'm not really agreeing with most of the information in this thread, but to come in and say, "I was successful doing this; you must be wrong," is just as bad as someone saying, "I wasn't successful, so I must be right." You and people you know are not an accurate sample size for determining a GENERAL principle.

    And saying, "Ha, anyone saying otherwise must be unsuccessful" is frankly offensive and a big ol' red herring: if someone hasn't as much weight as you, or as fast as you, does not make their success any more or less than yours. And it certainly doesn't change the goddamn science at work here.

    This is to both of these comments, by the way.
  • Katla49
    Katla49 Posts: 10,385 Member
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    I have type 1 diabetes and Celiac disease. I eat a very low carb diet. I stay around 1600 calories. I do try to stick with lean cuts of meat and chicken, fish, etc. I also do not eat processed food and rarely eat in restaurants because i seem to always get glutened.

    My husband has quite a bit in common with you. He does not have celiac disease, but does have gluten intolerance issues and type 1 diabetes. Subway has gluten free sandwiches available in Oregon and a couple of other test states. The guy who makes them at our local store gets all gloved up and is careful to avoid cross contamination. I understand they plan to expand this to additional states but I don't know the time table. It is possible to order gluten free food in a Chinese restaurant, but we've discovered that this food is amazingly high in calories and salt, and I'm not sure about cross contamination. I'm quite sure that our situation is easier than yours because he's only intolerant and doesn't have celiac disease. I read that Outback Steak House also has gluten free offerings.

    On the home front, our local IGA has gluten free bread and buns available in the freezer case, and some fresh on the shelf. In addition, they will order things if we request them. That's how we got the Gluten Free hamburger buns. Chain stores like Safeway don't have that level of flexibility in their ordering (IGA means Independent Grocers's Association, I think.) Fred Meyer, (Krogers) also offers gluten free products in its health foods section. We discovered DH's Gluten issues when his acupuncture doctor advised him to leave beer behind in favor of Saki highballs. The switch allowed him to feel much better and we've found gluten free beer that he likes okay. Widmer Brewing offers two gluten free beers, both called Omission. One is a lager and the other is Pale Ale. DH likes the lager better, but the Saki is the lower calorie option, so he only drinks the beer as an occasional treat. I think that one of the Widmer family members is a celiac or has intolerance issues.

    I wish you the best possible luck.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
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    Eating 100g of carbs a day is much different than eating 20g.

    I know and have seen several people who've had success eating at such low carbs... but you need to take into account long term effects on your body.
    People are capable of adapting to and thriving on a very low carb diets. The Inuits did it and diabetics and people with seizures were treated with ketogenic diets for their entire lives -- if you want to look at the "goddamned science" those would be good places to start.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
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    This is true. It can similarly cause ketosis. I tried to lower my carbs while pregnant because a friend of mine did this and said it was okay and healthy, but my dr ended up telling me I was experiencing a release and increase of ketones in my system and ketosis. It depends, but for some people it doesn't work out.
    Ketosis is actually very helpful for losing body fat once free fatty acids are no longer available for metabolism (around 10% body fat for men and 18% for women). For people above that level, I have not seen any evidence that it produces faster fat loss than simple caloric restriction.
    It may be helpful for losing body fat for some people, but it surely didn't help my system any. I had negative side effects. for some people it does no harm, but this can only go on for a certain period of time and for some people it happens quicker than others. If someone maintains a diet causing ketosis for years it *can* cause problems for some people. Worst issues and most common would be related to the liver and kidneys. My friend was pregnant and went on a low carb diet because of her weight (recommended) or maybe even non existent carb, but she had it monitored for those reasons. I just read an article that had people on higher calories, like 1,800 calories and 1,500, than the OP. I did this for my report. Well, it was shown the low carb diet raised ketone levels by over three times what the Mediterranean diet did and almost twice that of the low fat diet. Therefore, low carb diets would be said to be more likely to cause ketosis (higher levels of ketones in the body than usual). Theoretically, I would logically assume a even lower calorie intake would cause a higher risk of ketosis.