StrongLifts 5x5 - question about recovery

newmooon56
newmooon56 Posts: 347 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I have been doing StrongLifts 5x5 for about 5 weeks now (probably closer to 8, but started over when we got a new cage)
My squats are at 90# and DL is 125. I weigh about 130 and am 40 years old. Ultimate goals (for now) are - 130# squat and 200# DL.
OHP- 55# Row 70# Bench 65# btw...

I was doing HIIT to warm up (just 10 or 12 minutes on the treadmill) but found as weights got heavier I had to cut that back. So on lifting days no more cardio- a quick warm up.

My rest days are pretty active as I am a server in a busy restaurant for 3-5 hours a shift 4 days a week.

Finally my question- how long should recovery be as the weights are getting heavy for me. I feel great doing the workout but feel like Im not healed properly 48 hrs later - squats are part of every workout, after all. Usually I do the workout 3 days a week with 1 rest day between - but have found I need 2 whole days off between- which is not what the program calls for.

Im seriously considering cutting back to 2 days a week with this work out and maybe a 3rd that would be minus the squats? I finally understand why people are fond of split programs - a week off from a muscle group is starting to make sense - but these compound lifts dont allow that?

So what am I doing wrong- what do I need to do to continue to see gains and not feel like healing is not happening. I do drink my protein and watch my diet - aim for 120+ grams of protein every day, eating around 1700-1900 cals,etc.

Thank you for any help - and for the record I did check out the StrongLift groups- they seem to be dying- no one has posted recently. Thanks!
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Replies

  • sjohnny
    sjohnny Posts: 56,142 Member
    I ran into recovery problems when I was doing stronglifts with squats every workout and I was also running three days a week. My legs were constantly trashed. I ended up cutting my squats down to 3x5 and eventually down to twice a week. I still made gains and felt a lot better. If you aren't recovering you aren't doing yourself any good. I don't think it would hurt to take two days between squatting if you need to. Or cut squats out of your middle of the week workout and see how that goes. Try a few different variations and see which one allows you to fully recover and still make gains.

    Also, I don't do any warm-up before I lift other than a few sets of the exercise with lighter weights. I definitely wouldn't do HIIT and then try to lift heavy weights at high volume.
  • McBully4
    McBully4 Posts: 1,270 Member
    With stronglifts once you reach this point it's time to move on you have out grown the program.
  • newmooon56
    newmooon56 Posts: 347 Member
    With stronglifts once you reach this point it's time to move on you have out grown the program.

    I figured Id reach my goals first? the 130 squat and 200 DL?

    I appreciate your input but am not sure what to do next to continue to advance. I like the last advice given before your post - to put in more rest days or not squat 3 x a week.

    Im open to all advice- so thank you!
  • beachlover317
    beachlover317 Posts: 2,848 Member
    Bump - I would like the info on "out growing" the program. What is the next step?? I've been doing SL5X5 for a little over 4 weeks. This is my first go with weights, so I can use this for a while yet. What is next?
  • sjohnny
    sjohnny Posts: 56,142 Member
    The PDF that he sends out has a couple of options for modifying the program when you get to that point. There are also other programs out there you can move to if that's what you want to do.
  • chilly1979
    chilly1979 Posts: 24 Member
    I would just follow the program. Once you fail you drop the weight a little then go back up. If you keep failing start doing 3 sets of 5 instead and then 1 set of 5, all this with warm up sets. Warm up sets are important. But once you get to 1 set of 5 you are really just ramping the weight. Until you are actually failing on lifts though. I would stay on track. Different people will plateau at different spots. Women will stall before most men. So you may not get the whole 12 weeks of 5x5 before moving to 3x5.

    I think when you move up to another level, after the 1x5, Wednesday turns into a low weight squat day to give you a break. Madcow workout I think. But that is if you chose to keep going with strong lifts.
  • chilly1979
    chilly1979 Posts: 24 Member
    The program is Stronglifts 5x5. Which is broke down between 5x5, 3x5 then 1x5. You would need to read the report though. On 5x5 you really do more like 8 sets with your warm up sets. 5x5, 3x5 and 1x5 is all the sets with your “work weight” not the total sets you do. After that you do this the next level is his Madcow 5x5 program. It incorporates ramping as far as I can tell. Then after that he wants you to pay for info.

    This is just if you keep with the Stronglift program though.
  • newmooon56
    newmooon56 Posts: 347 Member
    great stuff in this thread- thank you everyone. I will look into madcow and also other programs. I wonder if New Rules for Women is where I need to go next? Maybe another program... I will keep researching and welcoming more advice.

    Thanks again all !
  • Gunsentry
    Gunsentry Posts: 121 Member
    You need to deload if you are struggling. Drop 10% and work up again.

    This will give you more recovery time and help you get stronger.

    The plan is:

    Fail - Fail -Fail
    Deload
    Fail - Fail Fail
    Deload
    Fail - Fail - Fail
    Deload


    Fail again you switch to 3x5 for that exercises keeping the same weight as you failed on.

    This repeats for 3x5 then you switch to 1x5 and when you fail on this go for a intermediate programme.

    Hope this helps.



    P.S. I am on week 9 and starting to see my progression slowing and might have to begin deloads:-

    Squats 102.5kg on my 2nd failure at this weight (only managed 3,3,3,3,3)
    Bench 70Kg
    Deadlift 135Kg
    OHP 45Kg
  • smileruk93
    smileruk93 Posts: 2
    It takes minimum of 48hrs to recover from a heavy weights session, and sometimes a lot longer for the legs as much larger muscles, some top weight lifting trainers say can take up to 10 days for some people to recover. Really you shouldn't do more than 2 max legs sessions a week. Id suggest braking it down over the week, Like ... Day 1 Legs (5x5 Squats then 3 Sets of Lunges and Step ups lighter weight for say 8 reps each leg) then day 2: maybe shoulders (5x5 shoulder press, followed 3 sets of late raises, Cable Rotations, pull ups) then day 3: chest and back: (5x5 bench, then flys, pull overs ect). using this method every muscle gets a good workout and time to recover.
  • FullOfWin
    FullOfWin Posts: 1,414 Member
    Drop to 3x5 work sets first and take it from there. You are not at a level where anything else would need to change. When you get to squatting at least 1.3xBW for your work sets, then you can think about dropping a day of squatting.

    Realize you can only get so far on a beginner LP routine without eating a ton of food. Enough to actually gain a bit of fat.

    And you should never be doing 1x5 on anything but deadlifts.
  • FitBeto
    FitBeto Posts: 2,121 Member
    It takes minimum of 48hrs to recover from a heavy weights session, and sometimes a lot longer for the legs as much larger muscles, some top weight lifting trainers say can take up to 10 days for some people to recover. Really you shouldn't do more than 2 max legs sessions a week. Id suggest braking it down over the week, Like ... Day 1 Legs (5x5 Squats then 3 Sets of Lunges and Step ups lighter weight for say 8 reps each leg) then day 2: maybe shoulders (5x5 shoulder press, followed 3 sets of late raises, Cable Rotations, pull ups) then day 3: chest and back: (5x5 bench, then flys, pull overs ect). using this method every muscle gets a good workout and time to recover.

    I squat 3-5 times a week, and 3 of those are 5x5 style progressive loading.

    I have no problem with recovery. I do sprints tue and thur, lift heavy mon - wed - fri, and HIIT on saturday with sprints if i feel like it lol. Sundays a rest

    I do yoga too, and stretch ALOT. Maybe you need to do more stretching, healing. I take Fish oil and other things for my joints, and make sure my protien is WAY more then adequate.

    Days I feel drained after the workout, i make sure i stock up on a TON of protien (not too successful with carbs) and the next day I am fine.

    I've always worked out when I am/even if sore, but I suggest stretching or iceing and up your food intake if you have trouble recovering.
  • Cyclink
    Cyclink Posts: 517 Member
    I can't speak for the 5x5 program. When I was lifting seriously (using programs based on Tudor Bompa's books), I was doing 10 sets of 5 to 6 of maximal weights and was taking 5 or 6 minutes between sets.
  • chilly1979
    chilly1979 Posts: 24 Member
    It takes minimum of 48hrs to recover from a heavy weights session, and sometimes a lot longer for the legs as much larger muscles, some top weight lifting trainers say can take up to 10 days for some people to recover. Really you shouldn't do more than 2 max legs sessions a week. Id suggest braking it down over the week, Like ... Day 1 Legs (5x5 Squats then 3 Sets of Lunges and Step ups lighter weight for say 8 reps each leg) then day 2: maybe shoulders (5x5 shoulder press, followed 3 sets of late raises, Cable Rotations, pull ups) then day 3: chest and back: (5x5 bench, then flys, pull overs ect). using this method every muscle gets a good workout and time to recover.

    I squat 3-5 times a week, and 3 of those are 5x5 style progressive loading.

    I have no problem with recovery. I do sprints tue and thur, lift heavy mon - wed - fri, and HIIT on saturday with sprints if i feel like it lol. Sundays a rest

    I do yoga too, and stretch ALOT. Maybe you need to do more stretching, healing. I take Fish oil and other things for my joints, and make sure my protien is WAY more then adequate.

    Days I feel drained after the workout, i make sure i stock up on a TON of protien (not too successful with carbs) and the next day I am fine.

    I've always worked out when I am/even if sore, but I suggest stretching or iceing and up your food intake if you have trouble recovering.

    LOL due your 23. Younger people recover faster and not everyone recovers the same speed.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
    OP...

    Continue with the Strong Lifts 5X5 program for now. You are not ready to move on to something harder.

    You should not be doing HIIT as a warm up. That is draining yourself of needed energy stores during lifting. This can make it more difficult for you.

    You do not log your diet very much... so I will give generic advice. You will need plenty of protein (about 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass you have) as well as plenty of water in order to properly recover in time.

    My suggestion would be to do as I have stated above, deload all your weights by about 10 pounds, and continue with the program.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    With stronglifts once you reach this point it's time to move on you have out grown the program.

    This. While it is a great beginner's program, it's a *beginner's* program. Way too many people on MFP seem to using it as a long term solution. There's a reason why Starting Strength, an identical program, isn't called Intermediate Strength, or Absolute Strength.
  • Chief_Rocka
    Chief_Rocka Posts: 4,710 Member
    I've always thought 5x5 was a bit high on the volume side for someone in a caloric deficit, especially when you're over 30. I would try cutting volume back to 3x5
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
    With stronglifts once you reach this point it's time to move on you have out grown the program.

    This. While it is a great beginner's program, it's a *beginner's* program. Way too many people on MFP seem to using it as a long term solution. There's a reason why Starting Strength, an identical program, isn't called Intermediate Strength, or Absolute Strength.

    I am puzzled why several of the people here have suggested the OP move on to a more rigorous program. The OP is not saying they find everything too easy to lift... on the contrary, the OP has said they are having trouble lifting and are taking longer to recover than the plan calls for.

    I do not see the logic behind abandoning a program the OP is finding difficult to maintain due to recovery issues and going for a harder program as a viable solution to reducing recovery time.

    I also do not see her lifted weights as being overly high at all. Even the Strong Lifts 5X5 PDF doesn't classify them as high.
  • FullOfWin
    FullOfWin Posts: 1,414 Member
    With stronglifts once you reach this point it's time to move on you have out grown the program.

    This. While it is a great beginner's program, it's a *beginner's* program. Way too many people on MFP seem to using it as a long term solution. There's a reason why Starting Strength, an identical program, isn't called Intermediate Strength, or Absolute Strength.

    True but the op isnt even squatting bw for reps yet. I think the bigger problem is so many people seem to think you are going to get miracle strength gains from LP routines while eating a deficit. It ain't gonna happen.
  • sjohnny
    sjohnny Posts: 56,142 Member
    With stronglifts once you reach this point it's time to move on you have out grown the program.

    This. While it is a great beginner's program, it's a *beginner's* program. Way too many people on MFP seem to using it as a long term solution. There's a reason why Starting Strength, an identical program, isn't called Intermediate Strength, or Absolute Strength.

    I am puzzled why several of the people here have suggested the OP move on to a more rigorous program. The OP is not saying they find everything too easy to lift... on the contrary, the OP has said they are having trouble lifting and are taking longer to recover than the plan calls for.

    I do not see the logic behind abandoning a program the OP is finding difficult to maintain due to recovery issues and going for a harder program as a viable solution to reducing recovery time.

    I also do not see her lifted weights as being overly high at all. Even the Strong Lifts 5X5 PDF doesn't classify them as high.

    The other programs aren't necessarily tougher or more rigorous. They are structured differently. For example: Wendler 5/3/1 I believe is considered an intermediate program but each of the main lifts is done once a week which allows for more recovery before hitting it again.

    I still wouldn't necessarily bail on it altogether but I had good results lowering the volume of squats.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
    The other programs aren't necessarily tougher or more rigorous. They are structured differently. For example: Wendler 5/3/1 I believe is considered an intermediate program but each of the main lifts is done once a week which allows for more recovery before hitting it again.

    I can see suggesting a different program that allows for more time between working each muscle group. But they are not suggesting that. They are saying she is not a beginner. Despite the fact that she hasn't even completed the time period Strong Lifts 5X5 is designed for or achieved the stated/written lifting goals.

    I am not as privy to weight lifting information as many guys are, but I think it'd be better to fix what she's doing wrong now (HIIT before weights, low protein, lack of logging, unknown water intake), before dramatically switching up her weight training program.
  • slowcheetah16
    slowcheetah16 Posts: 21 Member
    Cut the program back. 5x5 is very taxing on the body. Go to 3X5. Do squats once a week and never ever perform squats and deads on the same day. Cut out HIIT completely, it is killing your recovery. Go for a walk on rest days. You may want to consider going to a Reverse Pyramid training style. 4-6 reps, starting with your heaviest weight and peeling off weight to complete the next 2 sets.
  • bostonwolf
    bostonwolf Posts: 3,038 Member
    I speak as someone who is 42 years old and has lifted for the better part of 20 years.

    I love the 5x5 program, but I simply can't recover enough to do it Monday, Wednesday Friday. I generally do it Monday, Wednesday and Saturday and then start the program the next Tuesday.

    The program I'm on is three separate workouts and I find Monday's to be the easiest to recover from. #2 is tough and #3 is a bear.

    10-15 years ago I could easily have done in MWF. You need to be willing to make accommodations for age and ability IMO. Listen to your body and adjust accordingly.


    and FWIW, I do light cardio (30 minutes elliptical) before lifting to get my muscles loose and do some light stretching to get my hamstrings and groin loose, as I find if I don't the squats/deadlifts really get me there and slow down recovery.

    Doing HIIT before a 5x5 program seems to be a recipe for failure to me. Do HIIT as its own workout on a separate day.
  • DaveRCF
    DaveRCF Posts: 266
    I had the same issue. Like it or not, age has an impact on recovery. We both have a 4 at the front of our age. That makes a difference. I would be willing to bet that if you looked at the Stronglifts demographics they are skewed to the young bucks. All you have to do is look at the testimonials, which are riddled with 20-something guys who have had amazing gains.

    I was following the program to a T, injured my right quad twice and finally decided to cut back to 3X a week but 3X5 and not as many sets on warmups. Solved my problems. I would recommend cutting back on volume during a workout but not the number of days. See how that goes and then if that isn't working, you may have to cut back to 2X per week.

    I was worried that cutting back volume would limit my progress but the opposite happened and I continue to set new PR's.
    3X5 is what Rippetoe recommends for working sets and it is working for me.
  • DaveRCF
    DaveRCF Posts: 266
    Cut the program back. 5x5 is very taxing on the body. Go to 3X5. Do squats once a week and never ever perform squats and deads on the same day. Cut out HIIT completely, it is killing your recovery. Go for a walk on rest days. You may want to consider going to a Reverse Pyramid training style. 4-6 reps, starting with your heaviest weight and peeling off weight to complete the next 2 sets.

    I respectfully disagree. Squats and dead on the same day are fine for a beginner. I have set PRs for both on the same day. I agree on 3X5 but would squat every day, even if you aren't adding weight to the bar every day.

    BUT, I think what I have learned is that you need to tailor programs such as Stronglifts to a degree so they work for you. It is tempting to think that one size fits all but it doesn't. Also, you aren't "cheating" if you go 3X5 instead of 5X5. I felt like I was until I realized it worked better for me.
  • DaveRCF
    DaveRCF Posts: 266
    It takes minimum of 48hrs to recover from a heavy weights session, and sometimes a lot longer for the legs as much larger muscles, some top weight lifting trainers say can take up to 10 days for some people to recover. Really you shouldn't do more than 2 max legs sessions a week. Id suggest braking it down over the week, Like ... Day 1 Legs (5x5 Squats then 3 Sets of Lunges and Step ups lighter weight for say 8 reps each leg) then day 2: maybe shoulders (5x5 shoulder press, followed 3 sets of late raises, Cable Rotations, pull ups) then day 3: chest and back: (5x5 bench, then flys, pull overs ect). using this method every muscle gets a good workout and time to recover.

    I squat 3-5 times a week, and 3 of those are 5x5 style progressive loading.

    I have no problem with recovery. I do sprints tue and thur, lift heavy mon - wed - fri, and HIIT on saturday with sprints if i feel like it lol. Sundays a rest

    I do yoga too, and stretch ALOT. Maybe you need to do more stretching, healing. I take Fish oil and other things for my joints, and make sure my protien is WAY more then adequate.

    Days I feel drained after the workout, i make sure i stock up on a TON of protien (not too successful with carbs) and the next day I am fine.

    I've always worked out when I am/even if sore, but I suggest stretching or iceing and up your food intake if you have trouble recovering.

    ^^^^^
    Age: 23
    'Nuff said

    Oldtimers can't get away with this.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    With stronglifts once you reach this point it's time to move on you have out grown the program.

    This. While it is a great beginner's program, it's a *beginner's* program. Way too many people on MFP seem to using it as a long term solution. There's a reason why Starting Strength, an identical program, isn't called Intermediate Strength, or Absolute Strength.

    I am puzzled why several of the people here have suggested the OP move on to a more rigorous program. The OP is not saying they find everything too easy to lift... on the contrary, the OP has said they are having trouble lifting and are taking longer to recover than the plan calls for.

    I do not see the logic behind abandoning a program the OP is finding difficult to maintain due to recovery issues and going for a harder program as a viable solution to reducing recovery time.

    I also do not see her lifted weights as being overly high at all. Even the Strong Lifts 5X5 PDF doesn't classify them as high.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't read all of the the OP's post, so I'm clearly in the wrong here. I was agreeing with the statement that SS and SL are beginner's programs. Total goof by me.
  • n0ob
    n0ob Posts: 2,390 Member
    Agree with the 3x5 recommendations for working sets. I'd kill myself trying to do 5x5 at a weight that I actually almost fail with on squats...and that's for one day, much less multiple days of the week.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't read all of the the OP's post, so I'm clearly in the wrong here. I was agreeing with the statement that SS and SL are beginner's programs. Total goof by me.

    Oh. And I hope I didn't come off as "YOU ARE ALL WRONG" or something. I was seriously quite interested because I am actively trying to get into lifting weights. I definitely don't want to get something crucial wrong to begin with he he.
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
    I ran with it for the full 12 weeks, although at about 8 weeks or so I needed to do madcow for the upper body lifts as I stalled. My gains are still there...I am on a deficit now and am doing Wendler's 5/3/1 with assistance or fill in strength training. My squats and deads are still inceasing as are the upper body lifts (apart from the barbell row which seems to be stuck at 70kg/154 lbs)...I am finding it tougher on a deficit but am pushing through the fatigue.

    p.s. I did 5 x 5 for 3 days a week and still do strength training this often...I work full time and some days am tired, but one day's rest between each workout in the week and the weekend off suit me fine (4 days' rest in total) and I recover well...maybe check you are eating/drinking enough...I find when I eat more I lift way more...

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