Obesity: Genetics or Environment?
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Okay, I like your message about not pointing fingers and educating people with a level of sensitivity, and if that's your core point I'm 100% behind you. That said, going so far as to say that its 70% genetics seems to be in direct contradiction to the obvious weight gain the Western industrialized world (not just the U.S.) has experienced over the last 20 plus years. Thinking about it another way, that person who is genetically predisposed to weight gain may in fact be much bigger than his or her grandparents were at the same age, so while their genetics isn't really making things any easier, its the 30% that is within the person's control that could potentially save their life. At some point we all have to accept responsibility for our own problems, whether those problems be obesity, alcoholism, smoking, etc. Again though, I like the message of not being a *kitten* - we need more of that on the message boards.
Could you not argue in the last 30 years disposable income has allowed the fat genes that we may have to increase our body fat levels? Before hand, one simply did not have the income to allow good money to be thrown at sweets/candy/whatever you like to call it and similar fast foods and drinks?
I agree with this. I wonder if another factor in the increase of obesity is new generations that did not grow up in or around the times of food rationing. Not only income but pure availability.0 -
I was told that genetics was the "gun" and the environment was the "trigger" but I don't think genetics is an excuse to be obese. The bottom line is if you eat food in excess, like I did in order to comfort myself, you will gain weight no matter what your genetics say. On the flip side, if you eat adequately for your body and exerciese regularly then you won't be obese/overweight.
For example, my brother and I, who came from the same parents, were totally different. I was overweight/obese and he was skinny growing up. I "credit" my eagerness to comfort myself with food to my weight gain even if my genetics had me programmed to be overweight/obese.
Edit: my answer is environment over genetics
I like this idea....0 -
Yes everyone should develop some mental toughness and not blame "genetics". Life aint ****ing easy, im sick to death of hearing people blame everything but themselves.
At the end of the day, it is your own choice fo putting that bit of food in your mouth. The mentally strong wont, the weak will.
Yes hormones are a son of a *****, they make your crave lots of things, make you hungry. But you are still making the concious choice of following through with them.
Your mindset seems based on the assumption that everyone experiences the same or similar level of cravings you do, and that everyone starts off with a certain level of "willpower" equal to yours.0 -
Its genetics over environment on the average. All you have to do is look at identicle twins and they are almost always the same weight within 10 ibs. They have studied twins whom grew up apart and they are always a much closer weight to one another than they are with the families who raised them. When food is available like it is in industrialized countries genetics take over unless you are consistently dieting.0
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Interestingly there are studies that show it is not just genetics - its also suggesting environmental factors as well. In a study in Sweden, at UPPSALA Uni they studied TV habits, sleep and drinking booze. Each of the factors effected reward and addiction mechanisms in the brain. TV and booze can control social interaction and then tie to ritual eating patterns and over consumption of food. Booze was seen to increase food intake more than sleep deprevation or TV - suggesting a lack of control when imbibed? Possibly? I don't know...0
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I've come to believe that one is obese as a combination of both genetics and environment, with environment being the greatest factor.
Yes, I believe that genetics can give you a predisposition to how weight is distributed, as well as how quickly one can put weight on, and how hard it can be to take it off.
But it's environment where we learn, or don't learn, the skills to live a healthy lifestyle. When I look back on my childhood, I can see where I was taught to not only clean my plate, but to have seconds. And where I also learned that food was both comfort and celebration, and there were factors in my life, genetic ones as well as environmental ones, which sent me to seeking more and more food as comfort. Even though I spent a few years eating under the restrictive diet of 1970s WW and some of the learned behaviours there have held over, it did not set into my thoughts strong enough for the other learned behaviours to surface again.
But there is a point in my life where I can't even place the blame on environment, unless I consider myself part of my own environment.
From the point of adulthood, I accept that I am solely responsible for the quantity and quality of the food that I have eaten, and the lack of movement I have done. And it doesn't matter that my mental health issues did, and continue to, impact my food and movement choices, as an adult, it remains. I'm an adult. I've long known what I must do not to be obese, but have chosen, consciously or unconsciously, not to do it.0 -
Yes everyone should develop some mental toughness and not blame "genetics". Life aint ****ing easy, im sick to death of hearing people blame everything but themselves.
At the end of the day, it is your own choice fo putting that bit of food in your mouth. The mentally strong wont, the weak will.
Yes hormones are a son of a *****, they make your crave lots of things, make you hungry. But you are still making the concious choice of following through with them.
This, we live in such a blame culture, I hate it. People should take responsibility for themselves and not blame everyone around them. Common sense is slowly disappearing and being replaced by thousands of warning labels.
Having said that, the study you mentioned is interesting, but in my experience most people don't blame their weight gain on hunger, if I had a pound for every time I heard someone say 'No matter what I eat I can't lose weight'... feeling hungry all the time shouldn't affect your ability to lose weight if you are managing to stick to a calorie controled diet.0 -
Okay, I like your message about not pointing fingers and educating people with a level of sensitivity, and if that's your core point I'm 100% behind you. That said, going so far as to say that its 70% genetics seems to be in direct contradiction to the obvious weight gain the Western industrialized world (not just the U.S.) has experienced over the last 20 plus years. Thinking about it another way, that person who is genetically predisposed to weight gain may in fact be much bigger than his or her grandparents were at the same age, so while their genetics isn't really making things any easier, its the 30% that is within the person's control that could potentially save their life. At some point we all have to accept responsibility for our own problems, whether those problems be obesity, alcoholism, smoking, etc. Again though, I like the message of not being a *kitten* - we need more of that on the message boards.
Could you not argue in the last 30 years disposable income has allowed the fat genes that we may have to increase our body fat levels? Before hand, one simply did not have the income to allow good money to be thrown at sweets/candy/whatever you like to call it and similar fast foods and drinks?
So people were better off with less money because they can't control their impulses? Its an interesting intellectual proposition and one I've seen before, but I'm not sure its the type of thing we would want to openly discuss as its a can of worms for a number of reasons, but let me list two: (1) poor and middle class share of wealth is a very politically charged topic and the numbers are used politically so its hard to separate politics from facts, and (2) there has traditionally been a positive correlation between wealth and size, but from what I understand that trend has reversed over the course of the last 30 or so years, so that now the poor tend to be larger than well-to-do (again a very charged subject because people can run with it and say, well the poor have no self control, etc. - there are some pretty harsh people out there). You can see this demonstrated in sizing of designer clothing vs. sizing of discount clothing.
Even assuming this is all true though (which, for the record, I'm not saying), the focus should be encouraging people to take better care of themselves within the confines of what they CAN control. And again, I think your core message that we should deal with the issue of obesity with sensitivity and respect is great and one I wholeheartedly support. And for that reason, I'd prefer not to engage in the above discussion as I think this thread will nose dive if we do. Make sense?
Edit: typo and clarification0 -
I believe that it is a combination of both but mostly environment will dictate IF you end up fat.
You can have 'skinny' genes and still gain due to being in an environment where food is being forced on you..as an example, small children have NO WAY to know that they are not supposed to be eating THAT much- they are told to "finish what is on their dish" and punished if they do not, they are given deserts and juice to drink daily. If you put any child in a situation like this 99% of them will gain weight and further this is the way that they will view food for most of their adult lives.
If you have a proclivity to gain weight and are raised in a healthy environment where exercise is normal, water is the drink of choice and desert is just an occasional treat it is more likely that you will remain reasonably normal sized and thus have a more reasonable relationship with food.
I have yet to see a fat kid with skinny parents who fed them normally.. Usually kids are fat because they are being fed too much or just getting the wrong things.
As an adult its 100% environment (save the rare case of medical condition) you are in control of what you put in your mouth.0 -
As a side note, I find myself often wondering if most people know the difference between true hunger and cravings.0
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This, we live in such a blame culture, I hate it. People should take responsibility for themselves and not blame everyone around them. Common sense is slowly disappearing and being replaced by thousands of warning labels.
I'm laughing as I picture warning labels on the cake I just ate.
Given that the environment is unlikely to change, individuals who want to maintain a healthy weight do need to find a way to do this on the individual level, but the environment makes it very difficult for susceptible individuals. Food is big business and carefully designed from start to finish (recipe, advertising, packaging, price, location) to sell by hitting the sensory triggers. I know (strange) people who don't like sweets (jk on the strange.) Are they "better" or have better will power than those who respond pleasurably to sugar? I don't think it's will power that contributes to those people eating less but luck. They don't like sweets, so there is little temptation to overeat them.0 -
Genetics can make you allot more predisposed to gaining weight and keeping it on but you are the only one that goes hand to mouth...0
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There is definitely a genetic component that makes weight control more difficult for some people. How much more difficult? I can't say, I only know how hard it is for me.
That being said, I think many of us more fit people are not as open to the idea of it obesity being genetic because we know how hard we work and are sick of people saying that we are "genetically blessed."
All bodies are different, and I think we should use this information to not judge someone right away for being overweight. Then again, I know my overweight family members who are constantly saying their obesity is "genetic," do not exercise EVER and keep a bunch of crap food in their house.0 -
Obesity is a modern epidemic.
The modern environment has made food cheaper and more readily available.
Genes haven't changed.
At all.
Not one little bit.0 -
I believe for some it's a little of both. Myself personally I feel it's environment. Neither set of my grandparents are obese and neither of my parents are obese, and never have been. My mom gained stress weight, but once she dealt with that, she has lost most of that and some and she looks great! Both of my brother's have always been on the lean side, I wouldn't say skinny, but fairly fit. Myself on the other hand once I hit high school I was always a little bigger then most friends. Certainly not the biggest but no where near the smallest. I grew up with three older boys who could eat. I wanted to eat what they ate. By my senior year, I had even out some and then once I moved out and in with my boyfriend, that's when I ballooned. I sat around, smoke, drank, ordered out all the time. It's not question as to why I gained weight. Not because of my parents.. not because of my grandparents or my dna. It's because I was sitting on my *kitten* doing nothing but eating, drinking, and smoking (real healthy right?)
I don't think the genetics can be cut out 100%. I think it's easy to blame genetics because if you have two obese parents, maybe 7/10 times the child will be on the heavy side because they are eating the same crap that is making the parents overweight. And same goes for more fit parents who exercise regularly and eat healthy foods.
Obviously there is no proven fact to my statement, it's just my opinion and what I think from the people that I have come across in my life.0 -
u do what??Genetics can make you allot more predisposed to gaining weight and keeping it on but you are the only one that goes hand to mouth...
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If it's genetics, then everyone's genetics changed in and around 1980 and will continue to change because we're getting fatter by the day, well, in the USA that is.0
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Bad government advice and bad science, so environment.0
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Obesity is 100% caused by one specific part of our environment: food.0
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I watched a programme once where a woman who was convinced she had a valid genetic reason why she couldn't lose weight was tested, turns out her genes were fine and there was no medical reason why she shouldn't be able to lose weight. They also tested two friends, one who could 'eat what she wanted' and not gain weight, the other who was overweight but sure she ate less than her friend. They monitored them for 2 weeks, turned out the larger one ate more and exercised less than the thinner one.
A lot of people (not directed to anyone on here) blame large frames or bad genetics, but very, very few people have actual medical excuses to be overweight.
^^^^ This!0 -
I think it's a bit of both. My parents are overweight and I gain weight very easily, my body will look for any excuse! I put on quite a bit in my first pregnancy despite going to the gym and eating healthily, and I put on a massive amount in my 2nd pregnancy because I didn't exercise as much as I should have done. I know plenty of women who never exercise and didn't put on anywhere near the same amount of weight.
My brother, sister and I all struggle with our weight. My brother and I exercise like crazy and are a bit obsessive over healthy eating and manage to lose weight, my sister isn't so bothered, although she does swim 3 or 4 times a week, and she is overweight.
I know plenty of people who never exercise and eat what they like and aren't overweight, although I don't know what their body fat percentage is.
Luckily my parents always made us healthy food at home, so eating healthily is not a problem. They never really encouraged exercise though, although we did walk everywhere, and I did do gymnastics and swimming for a bit.
I have 2 young kids - 3 and 1 - and their attitudes to food are quite different. My 3 year old son is not bothered about food at all, and I have to bribe him to eat, but he's still grown nice and tall. He's lucky I guess to be tall and skinny. My 18 month old daughter loves food and won't let you feed her, she has to do it herself, but she knows to stop when she's full. They are both incredibly active, we walk everywhere and my son stopped sitting in a buggy just after he was 2.
I think today we are generally more clued up on health and fitness. I will make sure my kids eat well, and exercise regularly.0 -
ya just blame the food , thats why half your country is obese ... its alot more than food0
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Both can make it easier to become obese, but the real blame goes to the individual. Case in point, myself, the daughter of two (formerly) morbidly obese parents with a (formerly) morbidly obese sister who never has fallen into the overweight category. All but one of my grandparents spent a majority of their adulthood obese as well. If it was all up to genetics, clearly I would be obese. As far as environment goes, by the time I moved out of my parents they were both morbidly obese and my sister was at least moderately obese. I chose activity and portion control regardless of my unhealthy surroundings.
The real thing making the population obese? Putting the blame outside of yourself.0 -
It has to be a bit of both...
There are people who are predisposed to being larger...it is the way thier body is made up and how they hold and carry their weight can make them look bigger or smaller then they actually are.
I am a short curvy girl. I am not saying food choices i have made haven't gotten me to the current body shape I have - they did to a point...however I will never have skinny hips and booty - I have a large bone structure and am packing a nice layer of muscle underneath my layer of flubber. My sister who is a good 3 inches taller and fit - has the same hips and booty...so I know that is here to stay. I always laugh over the fact that when I was on WW they calculated the best weight for me would be to 135...I have to laugh - if I ever saw 135 on the scale I would look anorexic...even my Dr. agreed with me...with my body structure there is no way 135 would be good for my body...my best "weight" should be about 160 (I currenty weight about 179)...and even with that according to the stupid BMI charts I would still be in the high overweight category...
Genetics is huge for all faucets of life...yes environment can control it a bit but underlying things can be genetic in nature - so why not the predisposition to be be obese in SOME cases.
I have fraternal twins and it amazes me every day how different they are...from thier personalities, to thier interests, to thier preferences and even thier weight - I have one that is a perfect weight for her height and right where she should be and I have one that is underweight (to the point you can see her bones...I always worry that people think I don't feed my child)- went through a ton of testing to make sure nothing was wrong and we have been told it may just be her genetic makeup (since both my BIL are over 6 ft, bean pole skinny and can eat anything) - I can see where my underweight one will probably be able to get away with eating anything and not gain weight...whereas my other one will probably have to make conscience decisions about what she eats so as to not "tip the scale" - They both have about the same diet (actually the underweight one consumes more calories as I give her higher calorie health shakes from time to time to attempt to help her gain weight) - but their genetics are going to control things like height, bone structure, muscle structure, to a point metabolism0 -
ya just blame the food , thats why half your country is obese ... its alot more than food
Of course, it's food AND exercise. A lot of people drive down the street now instead of walking etc. 60 years ago people exercised more and ate less, because they had to, and obesity wasn't a problem. Now food is more readily avaliable and people exercise less and 'half your country is obese' (which country are we talking about? I'm assuming US or UK)0 -
While I believe genetics come in earlier on (some kids just seem inclined to be chubby), I believe obesity is environmental, and directly related to diet/exercise.0
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whatever the reason (absent medical) obesity can be changed and altered and fixed with dedication
some will hang on to either excuse as a reason to be complacent and lazy0 -
I think it's both but I also think a lot of people use "genetics" as an excuse. Take me as an example. My paternal grandmother, two maternal aunts and a paternal uncle are all obese and have been for as long as I can remember. And both parents have struggled with their weight (never obese but overweight) for most of their adult lives. I've also been fighting the chub for years and after a while, chalked it up to just being part of my family. I still think that's partially true but I also believe that it's no excuse to be obese. I've learned that I can eat right and exercise and beat obesity (and the heart disease that's also rampant in my family tree) regardless of whether I'm genetically predisposed or not.
And yeah, I used that whole "but I don't eat that bad" line back then too. Sure, that's how I got to 260 pounds, by NOT overeating. :huh:0 -
I to both has something to do with it, plus your own mind..0
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Both.0
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