Loma Linda Study - Vegetarian/Vegan = Longer Lifespan?

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Graelwyn75
Graelwyn75 Posts: 4,404 Member
in Food and Nutrition
I must first state that I am not of any view here at present and am neither anti meat nor anti vegetarian.

I was simply doing some online research/reading around due to deciding whether to add a little meat back into my diet(organic, free range, grass fed) a few times a week, after decades of being vegetarian or pescetarian, and found a lot of Oct 2012 references to this study.

I am wondering what others' opinions are on the results ?


http://newsinhealth.nih.gov/issue/jul2012/feature1

http://www.llu.edu/public-health/health/cancer.page

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=251066375

Replies

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,984 Member
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    Depends. Generally speaking vegetarians tend to consume a better profile of foods and have made lifestyle changes as well. The control diet studies are compared to is the SAD diet, which if you look at the epidemiology of the Standard American Diet it's not hard to improve pretty much every health marker associated with that diet with the increase of fresh fruit and vegetables. Compare a vegetarian/vegan diet with something different then I think you'll find that advantage will depend greatly on many factors, much of it lifestyle. A vegetarian diet is definitely a vast improvement over the SAD diet, no doubt about it. Personally the addition of fish would me my choice if I was to consider that lifestyle, which I don't, just to make my biases heard.
  • glitteredgrave
    glitteredgrave Posts: 194 Member
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    I'm vegan, so this is a biased reply. I was vegetarian for 4 years before going completely vegan. I've read several books on the subject before I decided to go vegetarian to begin with. It all makes sense to me, I agree with it completely. I don't eat nasty animal fats, a lot of processed food has dairy in it or cheese (you know us americans and our cheese addiction).. so I avoid most unhealthy crap unless I can get my paws on VEGAN junk food that I really like. Fast food is nearly impossible. I try to eat foods in their most natural form, so I can see why vegs "live longer" or whatever. Try reading "the China Study" and "the Food Revolution". They go into it more completely
  • Graelwyn75
    Graelwyn75 Posts: 4,404 Member
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    But what of a meat eater who ate all the whole and raw foods that healthy vegans/vegetarians tend to eat, and just had organic, free range meat or wild fish a few times a week, and raw/limited dairy ?

    I am genuinely curious to know all views on this study, as I am sure I read among the literature that all in the study, including those who ate meat, lived healthy lifestyles.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,984 Member
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    But what of a meat eater who ate all the whole and raw foods that healthy vegans/vegetarians tend to eat, and just had organic, free range meat or wild fish a few times a week, and raw/limited dairy ?

    I am genuinely curious to know all views on this study, as I am sure I read among the literature that all in the study, including those who ate meat, lived healthy lifestyles.
    Live a healthy lifestyle and consume natural foods, anyone has a leg up on longevity. If you study the blue zones, which are isolated examples of longevity, they all ate an abundance of fresh vegetables and fruit as well as meat, with the exception of the 7th day'ers in California......like I said, lifestyle, stress, family, happiness are key and as far as I'm concerned any farm to fork philosophy, with or without animal products is going to propel a person well past the SAD diet.
  • Graelwyn75
    Graelwyn75 Posts: 4,404 Member
    Options
    But what of a meat eater who ate all the whole and raw foods that healthy vegans/vegetarians tend to eat, and just had organic, free range meat or wild fish a few times a week, and raw/limited dairy ?

    I am genuinely curious to know all views on this study, as I am sure I read among the literature that all in the study, including those who ate meat, lived healthy lifestyles.
    Live a healthy lifestyle and consume natural foods, anyone has a leg up on longevity. If you study the blue zones, which are isolated examples of longevity, they all ate an abundance of fresh vegetables and fruit as well as meat, with the exception of the 7th day'ers in California......like I said, lifestyle, stress, family, happiness are key and as far as I'm concerned any farm to fork philosophy, with or without animal products is going to propel a person well past the SAD diet.

    I pretty much tend to eat a good mix of everything, beans a few times a month(though some sources now say those are bad), fish a few times a week, at least 1/2 kg of veggies/fruit a day, some dairy(though trying to cut that down), and maybe now meat, a few times a week. I don't eat fast food anyway or microwave meals, or bread and not that much grain either to be honest. I sort of get caught up sometimes in the many different studies saying this is bad for you, that is bad for you, and usually end up concluding that moderation in most things is good, with the exception of vegetables perhaps.
  • PaprikaPrincess
    PaprikaPrincess Posts: 89 Member
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    I'm related to Ohio 7th Day Adventists that are mostly vegetarians. My MIL has a steak or a piece of salmon once in a blue moon. She is in good shape for being near 80.

    I think a small bit of a high quality meat, fish or dairy is fine. The church does a good job instilling health as a tenet of honoring God but it a part ( albeit large ) of the overall wellness picture that influences the studies. I'm pretty sure the average 7th dayer is more likely to exercise, not smoke, not drink, may have reduced levels of stress, feel mentally well and have a strong sense of community .
  • Graelwyn75
    Graelwyn75 Posts: 4,404 Member
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    Bump.
  • caribougal
    caribougal Posts: 865 Member
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    But what of a meat eater who ate all the whole and raw foods that healthy vegans/vegetarians tend to eat, and just had organic, free range meat or wild fish a few times a week, and raw/limited dairy ?

    I am genuinely curious to know all views on this study, as I am sure I read among the literature that all in the study, including those who ate meat, lived healthy lifestyles.

    I'm a meat eater who eats mostly organic, humanely raised, pastured, grass-fed, wild seafood, etc. I don't want the risks of drinking raw dairy, but I do drink organic, low pasteurized, non-homogenized dairy.

    I have no idea how this relates to the above studies. As far as I know, there are no studies comparing someone like me with a vegetarian or vegan, and of course other lifestyle factors such as stress, exercise, sleep, etc would factor in.

    I think we all make the food philosophy choices that speak to us. I feel healthier eating this way than when I ate SAD. I've certainly lost weight. Am I healthier than I would be as a vegetarian or vegan? I have no idea... I find that a high fat / lower carb Primal diet works for me, which would be hard as a vegetarian, and virtually impossible as a vegan.
  • daniellealys
    daniellealys Posts: 301 Member
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    honestly, I dont think it matters whether you eat meat or not.

    I would LOVE to see studies on people who ate a Paleo lifestyle. because when looking at the regular meat eater vs. a vegan, usually that vegan makes better choices. but paleo vs vegan, now that would be interesting.
  • caribougal
    caribougal Posts: 865 Member
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    honestly, I dont think it matters whether you eat meat or not.

    I would LOVE to see studies on people who ate a Paleo lifestyle. because when looking at the regular meat eater vs. a vegan, usually that vegan makes better choices. but paleo vs vegan, now that would be interesting.

    Agreed! There's this, which is attempt at crowd-sourcing results from people eating Paleo/low carb:
    http://www.awlr.org/

    Of course, the data from the survey are fun to look at, but they don't actually mean a damned thing. People self-reporting, no lab results, no comparison... it's really a compilation of anectodals by people who have had success. Most respondents are in their 20-50's so that will skew to a healthier population. I haven't filled filled out the survey since I'm still a few pounds from goal, and I really haven't even begun to work on my BF%. I'd rather complete it when I feel like I've achieved the transformation I'm after. Hence... skewing the data towards success, right?

    The most interesting tidbit in that data is the reporting on hunger levels. But... having never been a vegetarian or vegan myself, I have no idea if the experience of satiety that most Paleos consistently report would also be reported by vegans/vegetarians. I personally assume it's a result of a high fat diet, and most vegetarian/vegans are low fat.
  • Graelwyn75
    Graelwyn75 Posts: 4,404 Member
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    I would be very interested in a comparison of those eating a non processed vegan diet, with those eating a non processed meat/fish diet, to be honest, both eating the same quantities of fresh vegetables and fruits, and maybe with a third group who ate meat/fish but no dairy.

    It can be so hard to know just what diet to eat for the best these days, to be honest, and becomes very frustrating. I am currently just settling on having meat one day a week, fish 2-3 days a week, and vegan/veggie the other days, getting a variety, and avoiding processed as far as I can.
  • etoiles_argentees
    etoiles_argentees Posts: 2,827 Member
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    Live a healthy lifestyle and consume natural foods, anyone has a leg up on longevity. If you study the blue zones, which are isolated examples of longevity, they all ate an abundance of fresh vegetables and fruit as well as meat, with the exception of the 7th day'ers in California......like I said, lifestyle, stress, family, happiness are key and as far as I'm concerned any farm to fork philosophy, with or without animal products is going to propel a person well past the SAD diet.

    I agree... life, stress ,family ,happiness has as much if not more to living long. Remember those Roseto studies? http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/14_2 The Roseto Effect.htm
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,984 Member
    Options
    Live a healthy lifestyle and consume natural foods, anyone has a leg up on longevity. If you study the blue zones, which are isolated examples of longevity, they all ate an abundance of fresh vegetables and fruit as well as meat, with the exception of the 7th day'ers in California......like I said, lifestyle, stress, family, happiness are key and as far as I'm concerned any farm to fork philosophy, with or without animal products is going to propel a person well past the SAD diet.

    I agree... life, stress ,family ,happiness has as much if not more to living long. Remember those Roseto studies? http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/14_2 The Roseto Effect.htm
    That was extremely interesting, thanks for that...I have it filed.:smile:
  • etoiles_argentees
    etoiles_argentees Posts: 2,827 Member
    Options
    Live a healthy lifestyle and consume natural foods, anyone has a leg up on longevity. If you study the blue zones, which are isolated examples of longevity, they all ate an abundance of fresh vegetables and fruit as well as meat, with the exception of the 7th day'ers in California......like I said, lifestyle, stress, family, happiness are key and as far as I'm concerned any farm to fork philosophy, with or without animal products is going to propel a person well past the SAD diet.

    I agree... life, stress ,family ,happiness has as much if not more to living long. Remember those Roseto studies? http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/14_2 The Roseto Effect.htm
    That was extremely interesting, thanks for that...I have it filed.:smile:

    There is ton of them , I'm sure you'll find. :)
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,984 Member
    Options
    honestly, I dont think it matters whether you eat meat or not.

    I would LOVE to see studies on people who ate a Paleo lifestyle. because when looking at the regular meat eater vs. a vegan, usually that vegan makes better choices. but paleo vs vegan, now that would be interesting.

    Agreed! There's this, which is attempt at crowd-sourcing results from people eating Paleo/low carb:
    http://www.awlr.org/

    Of course, the data from the survey are fun to look at, but they don't actually mean a damned thing. People self-reporting, no lab results, no comparison... it's really a compilation of anectodals by people who have had success. Most respondents are in their 20-50's so that will skew to a healthier population. I haven't filled filled out the survey since I'm still a few pounds from goal, and I really haven't even begun to work on my BF%. I'd rather complete it when I feel like I've achieved the transformation I'm after. Hence... skewing the data towards success, right?

    The most interesting tidbit in that data is the reporting on hunger levels. But... having never been a vegetarian or vegan myself, I have no idea if the experience of satiety that most Paleos consistently report would also be reported by vegans/vegetarians. I personally assume it's a result of a high fat diet, and most vegetarian/vegans are low fat.
    This is an interesting study critique that you may not have seen. Small sample group and no control group, but interesting nevertheless.

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2009/02/paleolithic-diet-clinical-trials-part.html
  • caribougal
    caribougal Posts: 865 Member
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    <snip>

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2009/02/paleolithic-diet-clinical-trials-part.html

    I hadn't seen that. Why... oh why... can't they do a study with more than 9 people!

    Funny that just before reading this post, I was reading Hyperlipid... Peter hates Guyunet!
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,984 Member
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    <snip>

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2009/02/paleolithic-diet-clinical-trials-part.html

    I hadn't seen that. Why... oh why... can't they do a study with more than 9 people!

    Funny that just before reading this post, I was reading Hyperlipid... Peter hates Guyunet!
    LOL, I know, but.........:happy:
  • Graelwyn75
    Graelwyn75 Posts: 4,404 Member
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    Totally forgot to recheck this.
    Thanks for the links, guys, will look into them.
    Also getting heavily into studying various books including the omnivore's dilemma, eat well to live well etc.
  • caribougal
    caribougal Posts: 865 Member
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    Omnivore's Dilemma is great. For a lighter read, but just as interesting, is Pollan's book called Botany of Desire. He looks at the impact that 4 plants have had on human society... Apples, tulips, corn, and marijuana. Amazing book. It's amazing to learn the history of these 4, and how much they have influenced us (and us, them).

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