Is being "overweight" not bad after all?

2

Replies

  • jenilla1
    jenilla1 Posts: 11,118 Member
    The problem is that the study lumped people who had cancer and other terminal wasting diseases in, counting them as though they were naturally thin people, thereby skewing the results, making it look like thinness = early death.
  • thrld
    thrld Posts: 610 Member
    Agree with poster above -- this is a flawed study. Just as BMI does not reflect the level of activity, % of body fat or type of diet -- a low BMI also does not ensure activity/exercise/healthy diet. Serena Williams is in one group, Karen Carpenter is in the other.
  • RoadsterGirlie
    RoadsterGirlie Posts: 1,195 Member
    I think it's rubbish....how many old overweight people do you see?

    My mom and I were just having this conversation today. The majority of the people who I see that are over-fat are folks under usually under 50 years of age. The older generation typically knows what a healthy diet is, and has more common sense when it come to eating. They were not raised on super-sized cokes and french fries.

    My great-aunt who at 86 years old has never been overweight in her life, swears that cidar vinegar has kept her thin all these years. I personally think that's BS - she eats healthy and gets in lots of fruits and veggies because that's how she was raised.

    My grandmother (her sister) has the same eating habits she does, and at 90 years old is still kicking strong. She goes hiking, swimming, and even horse back riding. That's what I'm aiming for.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    I think it's rubbish....how many old overweight people do you see?

    I guess it depends on what you call "old" I have quite a few relatives in their 70's and 80's that are obese.
  • lacharp
    lacharp Posts: 66
    I agree with this concept totally - I am someone who will always have a high BMI but would actually be unhealthier at a normal BMI. After a lifelong struggle with my weight, I finally started seeing a specialist, who determined that I have a naturally dense frame, and that my lean body mass is 124lbs. Thing is, I'm 5'4". So the range I need to be in to have a healthy, and not too low, percentage of body fat, is actually higher than the "normal" range for BMI... so per the BMI I'll always be "overweight", but it would be less healthy for me to be in the "normal" range.
  • omma_to_3
    omma_to_3 Posts: 3,265 Member
    I think it's rubbish....how many old overweight people do you see?

    I guess it depends on what you call "old" I have quite a few relatives in their 70's and 80's that are obese.

    Most of them in my family (are obese). All of them have made it into their 80s or 90s so far - except the one that was never overweight. He died young (in his 60s)
  • jrmartinezb
    jrmartinezb Posts: 147 Member
    "I found it a very interesting read. I think it confirms that BMI does not by itself give an appropriate measure of a person’s health."

    This is news?????

    Of course it’s not news, but sadly a lot of people treat BMI as if it were a single reliable indicator of health. Insurance companies charge higher premiums, companies refuse to hire and doctors even prescribe treatment based solely on it. I say it’s great that scientists are doing this kind of research.
    BMI says NOTHING OF FAT.

    I SMH at how ignorant this whole discussion is (the article).

    Our knowledge of what is healthy and not evolves continuously. A few years ago it was thought it was only weight, we now know it is body fat, and specially abdominal fat that is the problem. The way I see it the discussion is part of our getting a more sophisticated knowledge of how the body works.
  • jrmartinezb
    jrmartinezb Posts: 147 Member
    Another excuse study to rationalize being fat.
    And I'd gladly sacrifice a few years of life in exchange for quality of life - not that I am buying this.
    If you want to be fat, just be fat.
    No need to make it a health virtue.

    I don’t think the study is trying to make being fat a health virtue. The problem with treating weight (or bmi) as a snapshot of a person’s health is not only that it <edit>sometimes</edit> points to problems when there are none, like in very muscular people, but that it can also hide actual risks (like in underweight persons or thin people with high body fat). I am definitely not saying that overweight=healthy, just that the issue is more nuanced than more weight --> less health.

    That said, I also think that there are many reasonable objections that can be (and have been) made to the study. That is the beauty of peer review. Scrutiny of your work by others is what makes science thrive. I hope that more and better research gets done.
  • liittlesparrow
    liittlesparrow Posts: 209 Member
    It just sounds like another reason for fat people to punk out, saying "being big is actually HEALTHY, SO THERE". But really, do what ever you want, either way, you will eventually die. Either being fat, skinny, muscled or thin.
  • Cheval13
    Cheval13 Posts: 350 Member

    the human mortality rate is actually 100%

    No, it is not. A specific time frame is need to calculate mortality rate. While there may come a day when 100% of the human population dies, that day has not yet come.

    Um... yeah. No
    correlation doe not equal causation

    ^this
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
    the human mortality rate is actually 100%

    Mortality rate refers to what has happened not to what will happen. You can't rate what will happen. The human mortality rate will be 100% once all humans are dead. To know our current mortality rate we would have to know how many people have ever lived and how many of those people have died to date. Then you would have the human mortality rate.
  • supplemama
    supplemama Posts: 1,956 Member
    Maybe for some people being overweight or obese is ok, but for me NO my body simply cannot handle it. I became obese and my heart (I was born with a mild heart condition) was like WTF!
  • skinnyinnotime
    skinnyinnotime Posts: 4,078 Member
    I think it's rubbish....how many old overweight people do you see?

    I guess it depends on what you call "old" I have quite a few relatives in their 70's and 80's that are obese.

    Most of them in my family (are obese). All of them have made it into their 80s or 90s so far - except the one that was never overweight. He died young (in his 60s)

    Alot of my friends parents are dying young, in their early 60's they were all over weight and associated problems like high blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes 2. I'm shocked at the rate it's happening.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,228 Member
    Maybe for some people being overweight or obese is ok, but for me NO my body simply cannot handle it. I became obese and my heart (I was born with a mild heart condition) was like WTF!

    This is probably true. I'm very tall (5'11.75") and in reasonably good health. When I was obese, the worst of my health problems was osteoarthritis. Annoying, but not really life-threatening. To tell the truth, I could probably stop losing now, and I would remain in relatively good health. But not everyone could do that, and that is the thing to remember.
  • Earguy
    Earguy Posts: 35
    Forget mortality rate. And let's suppose, like me two years ago, you're only 30 pounds overweight. Not much, actually for a 6-foot tall guy, but pudgy, wearing a 38 waisted pants. In my late forties, I was experiencing:

    Poor quality of sleep due to apnea. I was tired all the time. ALL THE TIME. Falling asleep at work.
    Achy knees.
    Missed work due to lower back pain.
    High blood pressure -> blood pressure medication to keep in low -> occasional impotence. WHAT? ME? Yes. Oh, and occasional dizziness upon rising.
    Rising blood sugars (as in, "lose some weight or you will be clinically diabetic and you'll be taking more medication").
    Embarrassment of my body image. I didn't want to take my shirt off at the pool.

    I could go on a CPAP machine, take pain medications (goodbye liver), take diabetic medications, risk my eyesight, take Cialis, sit by the side of the pool while everyone else was in, get arteriosclerosis, etc., etc., etc....

    Or I could lose a little weight.

    Whether you measure it by BMI or any other measure, a little extra weight may not kill you (i.e., you're not morbidly obese - that's what it means), but there's lots of other health and motivating factors to keep the weight down. Everyone needs to find their own motivation.
  • hellraisedfire
    hellraisedfire Posts: 403 Member
    http://www.prb.org/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

    According to that article, 6.5% of people who have ever lived are still alive today. so if you really want to get technical the mortality rate is 93.5%. So chances are you aren't going to get out of this alive. But it is possible. According to statistics... :flowerforyou:
  • Reneeisfat
    Reneeisfat Posts: 126 Member
    People with higher bmis may also be on medication that will assist them with a longer lifespan.
    I have known and known of seemingly fit people that have had strokes or heart attacks.

    It's about education I think. People really undeerstandIng what's going on with their bodies and how they work.
  • Juliejustsaying
    Juliejustsaying Posts: 2,332 Member
    Then someone should tell the insurance companies cause they are charging an arm and a leg for this sh**
  • Dani_wants_to_be_fit
    Dani_wants_to_be_fit Posts: 550 Member
    Well from my experience I feel a lot healthier, happier and better being a healthy weight rather than when I was overweight. I'm pretty sure the studies for the dangers of obesity still hold up. Greater risk of heart disease, diabetes etc

    Can we also take into account here quality of life? I know people are happy in all shapes and sizes so I wont generalize, but I know my larger self and many of my larger friends were miserable at our larger weights, always wishing to be thinner, not as active as we would like to be. The weight loss industry is making a fortune and it wouldn't if we were content.
  • darleyschroeder
    darleyschroeder Posts: 322
    A very fit person can have a higher BMI.
    BMI is only part of the picture. If someone has a ton of muscle (NOT FAT) then they will obviously weigh more. Someone 5'4 and 160 pounds will look way different fit then 160 pounds not fit.

    Being overweight..not fit..is not good for your health and will not make you live longer. People who don't take care of their bodies open themselves up to sickness and disease.
    There's a big difference between being fat and heavy and being muscular and heavy.
  • iplayoutside19
    iplayoutside19 Posts: 2,304 Member
    Your title is a little bit at odds with what the study said. It says moderate obese people live longer. While they maybe alive...are they really living a quality life? Not only that, how much of their personal recources, and the recources of their nation is it taking to keep them alive?

    I joined MFP after taking a trip to Rocky Mountain National Park in 2009. There were so many things I wanted to do, but knew I didn't have the physical ability to do them. Now when I plan a vacation in the mountains I look for physicly strenous things to do, and I take them on with enthusiasm. That maybe a bad example, but I can think plenty of obesity related issues and illnesses that make life a lot harder that it has to be.
  • walkingforward
    walkingforward Posts: 174 Member
    It was on the 'net - it must be true :laugh:
  • schondell
    schondell Posts: 556 Member
    the human mortality rate is actually 100%

    But for thin people it's only 85%
  • msiamjan
    msiamjan Posts: 326 Member
    the human mortality rate is actually 100%

    Well, actually more like 93%.
  • iampanda
    iampanda Posts: 176 Member
    The thing is, BMI isn't accurate- if you weigh more than what is considered "normal" for your height, you are going to have a higher BMI. But not all people who weigh more are unhealthy. A lot of muscular people have a higher weight, but are in fact, much healthier despite having a higher BMI. It doesn't factor in things such as muscle composition or anything, which is why I generally ignore it.
  • Hearts_2015
    Hearts_2015 Posts: 12,031 Member
    I do agree that the word overweight and the word obese do often get used interchangeably and it can get confusing for some. Obese is much different than being overweight, it's a completely category and means something entirely different.

    As we know a person can be very fit and muscular but considered overweight by the BMI standards, which is why it's not something that's accurate for everyone to go by.
  • Chainbreaker
    Chainbreaker Posts: 124 Member
    Here is a link to the JAMA article on the study: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

    But the headlines may be somewhat misleading.

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/questions/ask-the-expert-does-being-overweight-really-decrease-mortality-no/
    A recent JAMA study got major media attention when it claimed that grade 1 obesity (BMI 30-<35) was not associated with any greater mortality, than being normal weight (BMI 18.5-<25). The authors also concluded that people who are up to 30 pounds overweight appear to have a lower risk of death than those who are within the normal BMI range for healthy weight. Many news articles or segments claimed that the study should come as a relief to those constantly struggling to lose weight because their extra pounds could actually be helping their health! Other sources have suggested that we need to re-organize our BMI ranges to reflect the study’s results, moving grade 1 obesity into a normal or healthy range. But our expert, HSPH’s Nutrition Department Chair, Dr. Walter Willett, explained that the study’s results are flawed and extremely misleading. In the following questions and responses, partially published by USAToday, Willett details the study’s weaknesses and provides advice to those who are overweight and possibly confused by these new findings. Read more about maintaining a healthy weight, what the BMI means, and explore ways to prevent obesity.

    Q: Why do you think the research indicates that people who are overweight may actually have a lower risk of premature death?

    A: The most serious problem in the Flegal paper is that their normal weight group included a mix of lean and active people, heavy smokers, patients with cancer or other conditions that cause weight loss, and frail elderly people who had lost weight due to rapidly declining health. Because the overweight and obese groups were compared to this mix of healthy and ill persons who have a very high risk of death, this led to the false conclusions that being overweight is beneficial, and that grade 1 obesity carries no extra risk. Also, because the Flegal study did not use the original data from the published papers, they could not look separately at different age groups, and we know that the relation between body weight and mortality is much stronger before age 65 than at older ages.

    Q: Do you think the new statistics are accurate? If not, why?

    A: The new statistics are completely misleading for anyone interested in knowing about their optimal weight. As discussed above, the fundamental reason is that the authors did not adequately separate people who are lean because they are ill from those who lean because they are active and healthy. This will inevitably lead to wrong conclusions about the effects of body weight on risk of premature death. Stated politely, the paper is a pile of rubbish.

    ^^^Checkmate on this ridiculous discoussion.

    Thanks for putting this up and saving others the effort of finding it.
  • Emma_Problema
    Emma_Problema Posts: 422 Member
    Even with the whole "BMI doesn't take into account muscle mass and is a poor marker of fitness" arguement, I disagree that people who are thinner are healthier.

    I can't quite find the link right now, but I think it was the NIH....or some health agency trained obese people to run a marathon. The people didn't lose any weight (no dietary changes and exercise in itself really isn't enough for weight loss) but their VO2 max scores and their general health changes were PHENOMENAL! Add to that, I saw a super morbidly obese woman in a documentary who was a champion ballroom dancer and was in better shape than the majority of people.

    Just as BMI is a poor indicator of health, so is the amount of fat a person has. You can only gather so much information from the exterior. Although I agree that there's no arguing with the research that shows visceral fat deposition (around the internal organs) to be extremely detrimental to our health, it's important to know that only subcutaneous fat deposition (under our skin) in the only fat that we can see and that this fat has been shown to have little impact on our health.

    I want to lose weight, even though I have a BMI somewhere between 25 and 26, but I don't think I'm unhealthy. I want to get healthier and lift heavy and be awesome, but I would be kidding myself if I said my goals weren't mainly aesthetic. And that's what this is about for most people. Overweight people don't find our beauty ideals. Let's just be honest here.

    It's not about how much fat you have. It's about how active you are and how well you're eating. Period.
  • RideaYeti
    RideaYeti Posts: 211 Member
    'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.' - that sums up the "study"

    BMI is useful when measuring a large group or society. And that makes it an easy barometer for insurance companies to use when setting rates. While at the individual level it may not be the best, I can promise you the insurance companies have the data showing the higher the BMI, the more $ spend on medical bills. That also gives them a nice legal umbrella for why they charge some groups more than others. Personally I think the rates should be set based on blood work, BF%, and stress test, but that would make it nearly impossible to negotiate a contract with an employer. So they use BMI because they have to have some baseline to measure against.

    While we all like to pretend we are the exception (and believe me, I always have myself), we have to remember everything is a bell curve and odds are we are in the middle somewhere and not the exception. The low end of the curve would be people like ballerinas, jockeys, etc and the high end would be football players, body builders, etc.
  • SoViLicious
    SoViLicious Posts: 2,633 Member
    You're not a bad person for being overweight, being overweight is bad for you.

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