Lean muscle/bodybuilding calorie confusion!

Barkley87
Barkley87 Posts: 126 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi all, I haven't been here in a while but now I am I want to make sure I'm getting this right. I'm not too concerned about weight loss (I've put it at 10lb loss as I've noticed a lot of lean ladies around my height (5ft3) are 120lb-ish and I'm 130lb), but rather gaining lean muscle and dropping my body fat percentage down from around 28% to 15% - 20%. I currently lift heavy and do cardio 3 times a week for an hour and also cycle for about 30 mins a week. In the summer I do cardio for an extra 40 mins a week, but it's far too cold for that at the moment!

According to this site, my BMR is 1,304 calories/day. I have an office job so apart from my workouts I'm pretty much sedentary. I've put my daily calories on this at 1,500/day, but I'm not sure if that's right. Should I be eating that much? Is it too much/less to turn fat into muscle? Help please!!

Replies

  • Barkley87
    Barkley87 Posts: 126 Member
    anyone?
  • jjrichard83
    jjrichard83 Posts: 483 Member
    When you say you "lift heavy" - how often?

    It's trial and error, but most people dont' give themselves enough time to see if something actually works or not.

    I would focus on full body exercises 3x a week with reps 8-15 reps for full body - 12-25 reps for lower body. Your legs work harder than most other muscles, so you need to really put a burn on them, and I found muscles like legs & shoulders respond better to less frequent, but real tough workouts.

    If you do an intense workout with shorter rests, you can limit your cardio. Sometimes too much cardio combined with trying to build mass is counter productive. & when building mass, less is more - your muscles need time to fully heal before ripping them again. Try for 3 times a week with weights altering upper and lower body - and on lower body days, add an hour or so of cardio if you must!

    Remember most of your results - including muscle building is 70-80% what you eat. If it says 1300 calories, try that...

    On workout days I tend to add more protein to my diet (I don't really think about it normally other than at least 30g in the morning. take 15g protein before you work out, and 20-30g after you workout. Then your next meals/snacks for the day should be high in protein/amino acids, alkaline forming foods.

    I have experimented with many things, and this one thing - the alkaline forming foods has reduced my muscle soreness to next to nothing the next day - even after workouts 30-40% more intense. I have read that plant based diets do this too, helping you work out more frequently than meat based - which has proven true for me. That is one of the top 3 reasons for my diet switch
  • epicshapeshift
    epicshapeshift Posts: 20
    If you don't want to lose weight and you don't want to gain weight, just make your net calories equal your BMR. However many calories you burn from your daily exercises would get factored in. If your BMR is 1304, and you burn 200 calories, you should consume about 1504 calories for that day to maintain your weight. The more calories you burn, the more you have to eat to close the deficit. Don't worry if the number seems too high . If your calories burned is accurate (use a HRM for better accuracy), then so will be your net calories.

    Other than that, JJRichard has the answer for gaining the lean muscle.
  • geekyjock76
    geekyjock76 Posts: 2,720 Member
    Have you been eating the maximum amount of calories to experience weight homeostasis with very minor fluctuations? If so, you should use MFP to log your food intake to see what your actual TDEE is according to present activity so you get a more accurate baseline of energy expenditure. After you establish what that is, you can eat 250 to 300 calories under that to lose 10 lbs. However, if you truly are around 28% body fat, and wish to get down to 20 or even 15%, you'll have to reduce fat mass further.
  • Mutant13
    Mutant13 Posts: 2,485 Member
    You can't 'turn fat into muscle'

    You can decrease fat to expose pre existing muscle, and you can gain muscle.

    To decrease fat, eat a moderate deficit and lift heavy
    To increase muscle, eat a moderate surplus and lift heavy

    You can do this in cycles. That is what 'cutting' and 'bulking' is
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    If you don't want to lose weight and you don't want to gain weight, just make your net calories equal your BMR.

    NO, NO, NO, NO, NO
  • Barkley87
    Barkley87 Posts: 126 Member
    Thanks all for your advice. It seems like it's more difficult to figure out than I thought it would be!

    Mutant13, that's what I meant. I was just too lazy to type it. Good advice though, I'll try it. How long should each cycle last for?

    Jjrichard, my workout is pretty much like that already. I have a personal trainer and she really puts me through my paces and does HIIT with me. When I workout without her I just run but try to lift just as heavy and as much.
  • jjrichard83
    jjrichard83 Posts: 483 Member
    many people have done both at the same time without cycling. I know I've read a ton of times you can't, but I have seen even myself do it. Which is why measuring tape and measuring fat is as important as the scale (maybe even more). If you want very quick mass added, then yes a calorie surplus is needed, but it won't be as lean as it could be.
  • jjrichard83
    jjrichard83 Posts: 483 Member
    Thanks all for your advice. It seems like it's more difficult to figure out than I thought it would be!

    Mutant13, that's what I meant. I was just too lazy to type it. Good advice though, I'll try it. How long should each cycle last for?

    Jjrichard, my workout is pretty much like that already. I have a personal trainer and she really puts me through my paces and does HIIT with me. When I workout without her I just run but try to lift just as heavy and as much.

    If you're already doing HITT then remove other cardio completely for 2 months (you need enough time to see results). HITT can be pretty hardcore as it is, and your heart will get a good enough workout that way. It might be that simple! ;)
  • Mutant13
    Mutant13 Posts: 2,485 Member
    Thanks all for your advice. It seems like it's more difficult to figure out than I thought it would be!

    Mutant13, that's what I meant. I was just too lazy to type it. Good advice though, I'll try it. How long should each cycle last for?

    Jjrichard, my workout is pretty much like that already. I have a personal trainer and she really puts me through my paces and does HIIT with me. When I workout without her I just run but try to lift just as heavy and as much.

    It depends what works for you. Im currently doing about 12 weeks in surplus, and cutting for 6
  • Barkley87
    Barkley87 Posts: 126 Member
    Thanks :)

    Regarding the HIIT, I only do it with my trainer once a week, and we usually only do it for about 15 mins max (often less). How long do you suggest I do it on my own each time? The same amount or more?
  • jjrichard83
    jjrichard83 Posts: 483 Member
    Thanks :)

    Regarding the HIIT, I only do it with my trainer once a week, and we usually only do it for about 15 mins max (often less). How long do you suggest I do it on my own each time? The same amount or more?

    Many people spend 1-2 hours in the gym, but only do 20-30 mins of actual weight lifting, so if you're doing 15 mins going all out, then try that 2 times a week - giving yourself time to heal. I'd also do every other week a day of heavy lifts- 5-8 reps max to really test and trick your muscles. Sometimes it's good to switch it up.

    @Mutant13 - agreed! Depends on your body type. I am a meso-endomorph and respond well to pretty much any type of weightlifting regardless of routine. I gain lean mass easily - but I can also gain and lose fat easily too. A blessing and crap at the same time!
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    You can't 'turn fat into muscle'

    You can decrease fat to expose pre existing muscle, and you can gain muscle.

    To decrease fat, eat a moderate deficit and lift heavy
    To increase muscle, eat a moderate surplus and lift heavy

    You can do this in cycles. That is what 'cutting' and 'bulking' is

    ^^this.

    You should find this a good read. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818594-building-muscle-and-losing-fat-at-the-same-time
  • HeidiMightyRawr
    HeidiMightyRawr Posts: 3,343 Member
    Your calories should be about 10-20% less than your TDEE to lose weight/fat. Since you don't have much to lose, more like 10%

    BMR is how much your body needs to maintain basic functions in a coma-like state. TDEE is basically your maintenance but inclusive of all exercise (so you don't need to bother with exercise calories a what-not)

    Eg: Say your TDEE is 2000. You would eat approx 1800.
  • _happycats_
    _happycats_ Posts: 105 Member
    Hey, don't follow the advice given above to make your daily calories the same as your BMR, that's a good way to leave yourself tired, weak and starving! Like the others here have mentioned, you want to pick your calorie goal based on your TDEE, not your BMR. If you haven't already, use this post to find what your numbers are more accurately, this guy knows what he's talking about (and explains it all very well!):

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

    Other than that, best of luck to you :)
  • Mutant13
    Mutant13 Posts: 2,485 Member
    Thanks :)

    Regarding the HIIT, I only do it with my trainer once a week, and we usually only do it for about 15 mins max (often less). How long do you suggest I do it on my own each time? The same amount or more?

    Many people spend 1-2 hours in the gym, but only do 20-30 mins of actual weight lifting, so if you're doing 15 mins going all out, then try that 2 times a week - giving yourself time to heal. I'd also do every other week a day of heavy lifts- 5-8 reps max to really test and trick your muscles. Sometimes it's good to switch it up.

    @Mutant13 - agreed! Depends on your body type. I am a meso-endomorph and respond well to pretty much any type of weightlifting regardless of routine. I gain lean mass easily - but I can also gain and lose fat easily too. A blessing and crap at the same time!

    I'm jealous, I struggle to gain. I do drop fat very easily though
  • jjrichard83
    jjrichard83 Posts: 483 Member
    Thanks :)

    Regarding the HIIT, I only do it with my trainer once a week, and we usually only do it for about 15 mins max (often less). How long do you suggest I do it on my own each time? The same amount or more?

    Many people spend 1-2 hours in the gym, but only do 20-30 mins of actual weight lifting, so if you're doing 15 mins going all out, then try that 2 times a week - giving yourself time to heal. I'd also do every other week a day of heavy lifts- 5-8 reps max to really test and trick your muscles. Sometimes it's good to switch it up.

    @Mutant13 - agreed! Depends on your body type. I am a meso-endomorph and respond well to pretty much any type of weightlifting regardless of routine. I gain lean mass easily - but I can also gain and lose fat easily too. A blessing and crap at the same time!

    I'm jealous, I struggle to gain. I do drop fat very easily though

    I don't see many (if any) talking about body type. It might be because they feel x- worked for them so it should for everyone else... That plays an important role! I actually didn't even have it in my mind lately till this post. thanks for triggering that thought again :)
  • Barkley87
    Barkley87 Posts: 126 Member
    Those posts and the websites are great, thanks. According to a couple of online TDEE calculators I've found my TDEE is around 1900, so I should be eating around 1500 - 1700 calories a day to decrease fat right? And then after that cycle between 2000 and 2200 calories to gain muscle?
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Those posts and the websites are great, thanks. According to a couple of online TDEE calculators I've found my TDEE is around 1900, so I should be eating around 1500 - 1700 calories a day to decrease fat right? And then after that cycle between 2000 and 2200 calories to gain muscle?

    What have you been losing at/maintaining at over the last say 8 weeks? The online estimators are good, but the best gauge as to your TDEE is your actual results as the estimators use a bunch of assumptions that may or may not be correct for you.
  • Barkley87
    Barkley87 Posts: 126 Member

    What have you been losing at/maintaining at over the last say 8 weeks? The online estimators are good, but the best gauge as to your TDEE is your actual results as the estimators use a bunch of assumptions that may or may not be correct for you.

    I haven't been tracking for the last 8 weeks. When I was tracking last I was very slowly losing at 1400, but I was also doing less resistance training then.
  • jjrichard83
    jjrichard83 Posts: 483 Member
    Track everything - measure your body too. While working out, you may lose 5 lbs of fat but gain 6 lbs of muscle - getting depressed thinking it's not working, when in fact you should be giving high fives ;)
  • alexbusnello
    alexbusnello Posts: 1,010 Member
    I'm trying to build lean muscles and burn fat, too.... = /
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member

    What have you been losing at/maintaining at over the last say 8 weeks? The online estimators are good, but the best gauge as to your TDEE is your actual results as the estimators use a bunch of assumptions that may or may not be correct for you.

    I haven't been tracking for the last 8 weeks. When I was tracking last I was very slowly losing at 1400, but I was also doing less resistance training then.

    Your best bet is the online estimators then. You should make sure your track going forward. Make sure you have a good progressive loading strength training routine.

    ETA: also make sure you get enough protein.
  • KristyHumphrey
    KristyHumphrey Posts: 248 Member
    Sorry if this is a repeat but I didn't have time to read through all the posts but this calculator is GREAT for figuring out how many cals you should be eating....

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
  • Barkley87
    Barkley87 Posts: 126 Member
    Sorry if this is a repeat but I didn't have time to read through all the posts but this calculator is GREAT for figuring out how many cals you should be eating....

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

    That's one of the ones I used :smile:
    Your best bet is the online estimators then. You should make sure your track going forward. Make sure you have a good progressive loading strength training routine.

    ETA: also make sure you get enough protein.

    I'm a big fan of meat, nuts and protein shakes so hopefully that shouldn't be a problem! I moved house in August and haven't had any scales until this weekend and I've just bought some calipers (I was using the handheld electric body fat estimators before, but I've heard they can be inaccurate), so I will definitely be tracking from now on.
  • epicshapeshift
    epicshapeshift Posts: 20
    Oh sorry!! I just now realized that I kept saying BMR in my post!! I meant to say "Daily Calorie Maintenance." And yours is around 1560 or something like that. I'm so sorry for giving you misinformation initially! My bad.

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