Need advice please!

Margarette · May 2010

Hi Everyone,

So I need some help. I started this program and dropped the 3 or 4 lbs within the first week. Since then I have gone up gone down but pretty much stayed the same overall (122.5). I have stayed within my calories and I have been working out a lot more this last week but nothing. My stomach at one point looked pretty flat but now its back to normal so I am pretty sure losing fat and gaining muscle is not the explanation. I did the c25k w1d1 yesterday and today. Plus some dance fitness and urban rebounder this past week. Every day I have exercised atleast a half an hour (more like an hour to an hour and a half) where the first week I definitely exercised a lot less. I was considering altering the calories but I have only been doing this two weeks. Could I have really hit a plateau this quickly? Or am I doing something wrong? I did eat like crap twice this last week (I had a half a pizza roll with a salad one day and then a few days ago I ate 2 pieces of bacon and a breakfast sausage link). but i have cut way back on the ice cream so I don't think this caused it either. Oh and the abs just isn't making sense to me cause i have been doing ab workouts too!

Any advice would definitely be helpful! Thank you so much everyone!!!!

Margarette · May 2010

Oh and one more thing. My hormones seem to be going haywire. I know it takes a while to get used to the new diet but I am on birth control because i have endometriosis and well its not really controlling much if you get what I am saying lol.

jeffrey71 · May 2010

Margarette,

I have had some similar things happen on my weight loss. I would recommend taking a good look at your salt intake. Salt will cause water retention. It takes very little water retention to alter your weight some. Your weight really appears to be pretty good. A 3 or 4 pound loss is approx 3-4%. That is large for a week. Just stay with your program of exercise and stay within the calorie goal that you have set for weight loss and it will happen. One last thing, the volume of your exercise is really nice, but what intensity are you bringing to the workout? Do you check your heart rate while training? Do a little research on that subject. I think that you will find a couple of keys that you can apply to your goal achievement. If I can offer any additional help just let me know!

Best of luck!

jeffrey71

jeffrey71 · May 2010

Margarette,

My daughters have the very same issues! Hang in there, that may be a contributing factor, but I think that the salt intake will solve some of the issues along with an increase in workout intensity.

Be well, train hard!

Jeffrey

Margarette · May 2010

Hi Jeffrey71,

I don't have a HRM currently as we are tight on money right now but I can tell you that I am sweating during the workouts but can talk. So I think it is around 85% which as far as I know is where i want to be to lose weight.

Thanks for your advice. I will definitely make sure to bring it during the workouts.

Crysta1976 · May 2010

Are you pregnant?

cln714 · May 2010

Margarette,

I was freaking out when I read your post. It was like I had written it.... right down to the weight (122.5) lol. The first few weeks everything seemed to be working... then nothing. I don't get it 'cause I'm staying in the calorie allowance and exercising 6 days a week religiously, which I hadn't done before so what the heck??? I'm not technically overweight so I'm not that worried about it... I would just like to be thinner. I also started C25K. I'm on week 3 and I'm just hoping that once I get further along in the process, I will start shedding lbs.

I guess I'm not much help but I wish you much luck!

iplayoutside19 · May 2010

As small as you are..it's going to be a slow process. You have to give it longer than two weeks.

lessertess · May 2010

I don't have an answer for you but I have a few things for you to consider that might be contributing to the problem:

1. When you first start an exercise program or when you change up and increase intensity your muscles tend to hold onto glycogen (I think that's correct) which is essentially water weight. So at the beginning of a new routine expect some water weight gain. Don't panic, it will go away as you continue to exercise and eat/drink right.

2. Understand that all of these numbers are estimates. Gym machines and even the numbers that you calculate on-line are based on averages. Gym machines tend to overestimate by 10% to 30%. You could be over estimating how many calories you are burning. If you're eating back all your calories and you're overestimating the burn--you could be in maintanence.

3. National studies have shown that people tend to underestimate how much they eat anywhere from 20% to 50%. Even if you are journalling food, you may be underestimating your portions. Unless you are measuring everything--consider that you might be underestimating how much you eat.

4. When you count calories are you counting beverages? Many people tend to forget about things like juice or soda's or even sugar and cream in their coffee. If you do that enough it can add up.

5. Your body doesn't respond automatically to a calorie deficit. Just because you have a calorie deficite of 1000 calories today does not mean that you'll be a third of a pound lighter tomorrow. Sometimes it take time for it to catch up--sometimes up to two weeks. Just be patient. you could be losing and not even realize it.

Just some thoughts.

Margarette · May 2010

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am planning on getting the jillian michaels 30day shred and doing that also. Hopefully this will give me enough to boost my metabolism. I was actually unaware fo the water weight gain. I always heard you lost it all at the beginning so this makes me feel better! Thank you!

stroutman81 · May 2010

I don't have an answer for you but I have a few things for you to consider that might be contributing to the problem:

1. When you first start an exercise program or when you change up and increase intensity your muscles tend to hold onto glycogen (I think that's correct) which is essentially water weight. So at the beginning of a new routine expect some water weight gain. Don't panic, it will go away as you continue to exercise and eat/drink right.

2. Understand that all of these numbers are estimates. Gym machines and even the numbers that you calculate on-line are based on averages. Gym machines tend to overestimate by 10% to 30%. You could be over estimating how many calories you are burning. If you're eating back all your calories and you're overestimating the burn--you could be in maintanence.

3. National studies have shown that people tend to underestimate how much they eat anywhere from 20% to 50%. Even if you are journalling food, you may be underestimating your portions. Unless you are measuring everything--consider that you might be underestimating how much you eat.

4. When you count calories are you counting beverages? Many people tend to forget about things like juice or soda's or even sugar and cream in their coffee. If you do that enough it can add up.

5. Your body doesn't respond automatically to a calorie deficit. Just because you have a calorie deficite of 1000 calories today does not mean that you'll be a third of a pound lighter tomorrow. Sometimes it take time for it to catch up--sometimes up to two weeks. Just be patient. you could be losing and not even realize it.

Just some thoughts.

This is an excellent post. Took the words right out of my mouth, literally.

Also, I didn't see it mentioned about how many calories you're consuming.

I have some more thoughts, but I'll wait for that answer.

Margarette · May 2010

MFP has me set at 1200. I usually eat my exercise calories though if i am not hungry then I don't eat them all.

stroutman81 · May 2010

So you usually eat your exercise calories. How many is that, typically?

Where I'm going with this is... being a light female, you don't have a lot of room to wiggle, calorically speaking. 12 calories per pound is typically where I'll start my clients who are interested in fat loss. That's assuming a maintenance of around 14-15 calories per pound.

So in your case, 12 x 122 = 1500ish calories per day.

You're most likely eating close to that after you eat your exercise calories back plus, keep in mind that mostly everyone under-reports actual calorie intake. Humans are just very poor at doing this accurately.

So in this case, we're assuming your maintenance is 14 x 122 = 1700 leaving you with a 200 cal/day deficit.

Given that there are 3500 cals in one pound of fat, assuming all you lost was fat (which isn't the case), it would take you 17-18 days just to lose one pound.

And even with that, smaller women who are trying to diet invariably deal with all sorts of water balance issues. Part of it is glycogen, as mentioned above. Each gram of glycogen that is stored carried along 3 grams of water. But it also has loads to do with hormone balances that tend to get wonky in women in your position.

So your fat loss could be happening at this excruciatingly slow pace and even then, you won't realize it on the scale as it can be masked by 2-5 lbs of water weight.

I see it all the time... women in similar shoes heading in the "right" direction but they never stick with things long enough to realize it. They solely use the scale to measure progress so they never actually realize they're losing fat and this is coupled with short-term perceptions/expectations. They never stick to the plan b/c they allow water weight to dominate their emotional well-being. More often then not they cave, binge, and try again next week or month or whatever. it's a viscous cycle.

More often than not, managing expectation along with you tracking weight/body comp over many weeks and plotting a trend is what's called for. Or to put it differently, it's a matter of patience, assuming you have your nutrition and exercise dialed in correctly.

I'm just finishing working with a woman who's a fitness competitor. Over the course of a 2 month cut she averaged under .5 lbs of fat loss per week. And her weight remained the same throughout much of that time. Think about that.

Also, keep in mind that your maintenance may very well be under 14 calories per pound. Say it's 13. That puts maintenance at 1600 and if you're consuming 1500 cals/day, that gives you an average daily deficit of only 100 cals. At that rate, again assuming you lose nothing but fat, it would take you 35 days to lose one pound of fat.

See where I'm going with this?

Margarette · May 2010

Wow! That is a lot to take in! But it definitely helps! I was one of those women who would just give up after I didn't see the results I want. And you showing me this definitely helps! It makes me realize this is going to take time but it doesn't mean it isn't working.

My exercise calories vary between 200-500 a day. But I don't have a hrm so I just go off this site. Maybe I should save up and get one of those. Do I need to go with the polar f4 or higher or do you think a cheaper one even though not as accurate would give me the best results?

I measure out my food usually. I will probably change this to always knowing that everyone underestimates what they eay.

thank you all so much for taking the time to read through all this and help me!!!
I appreciate it more than you know!!!

rmccully · May 2010

this is a great topic!

I have also had problems I think with this. I am 5'-3" and 125lbs. I work out 2-5 days a week and have been doing so since march of 09
within the first 5 months I lost inches but gained 5 to 6 libs., which I am assuming was muscle. which brought me to the 125 that I am. I have had no changes at all since August (not in inches or weight) I have increased the number of times a week. The length of my workouts are at least 45 minutes. I eat good I dont drink pop or eat junk food. I don't eat much sodium at all.

So if anyone has ideas I would love to hear them.

stroutman81 · May 2010

Wow! That is a lot to take in! But it definitely helps! I was one of those women who would just give up after I didn't see the results I want. And you showing me this definitely helps! It makes me realize this is going to take time but it doesn't mean it isn't working.

Well it's my pleasure providing some outside, unbiased perspective. I understand how hard it can be.

My exercise calories vary between 200-500 a day. But I don't have a hrm so I just go off this site.

So you're consuming, in total, about 1400-1700 calories per day.

Look how that pans out with what I mentioned in my previous post.

If you're maintenance is something high, like 15 cal/pound, you'd be at 1800 calories to maintain. So if you're consuming 1700 calories on many days, you're barely running a deficit of 100 cals per day.

If you're maintenance is something low, like 13 cal/pound, you'd be at 1600 for maintenance and you'd be bouncing around maintenance or even a surplus some days.

In my experience, I'll start with 12 calories per pound for fat loss but there have been instances where I've had to drop that to 10 and even 8 for controlled periods of time.

And let's not forget that nutritional quality is also hugely important as someone just pointed out in my blog. Quantity is the foundation but what calories are comprised of is also vitally important. This is truer the less calories you eat because the more restrictive you are, the easier it is to become void or deficient of important nutrients and minerals.

Maybe I should save up and get one of those. Do I need to go with the polar f4 or higher or do you think a cheaper one even though not as accurate would give me the best results?

I know tracking calories expended using a HRM is the trend in this community. Personally, I'm not a fan of it. I don't use one and I don't have my clients use one. I enjoy using the system outlined in this article I wrote in my MFP blog:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/the-importance-or-lack-of-of-pin-pointing-the-exact-caloric-intake-19622

While I suggest reading that entire article, in it I highly this process:

1. Estimate total energy expenditure.

2. Set your caloric intake at a level above or below the above estimation depending on whether you want to gain or lose weight, respectively.

3. Track your measurements, weight, body fat, pictures, etc every 2-4 weeks.

4. Based on the trend you’re seeing with your tracking, adjust your intake accordingly.

5. Rinse and repeat steps 2-4 until you a) reach your goal or b) your goals change.

I couple this process with sane amounts of exercise. What's sane for one won't be sane for another. For example, someone in your shoes has much more limited capacity to handle high volumes of exercise then a 150 lbs woman of average body fat who isn't in a calorie deficit. Put differently, our bodies have a finite ability to manage stress and once that threshold is surpassed, bad things can happen like metabolic crash, intense hunger, water bloat, depression, etc.

But as noted previously, that threshold is going to vary from person to person, situation to situation. I'll also note that stress is accumulative and can come from a variety of sources. A calorie deficit is a stress in that it reduces your recovery ability. But so is exercise, work, bills, family life, etc. These things all need to be factored into your training and recovery.

In short, I don't get precise with tracking energy expended b/c I know what a sane amount of exercise is for someone and once that's applied to an individual, if weight or body composition isn't heading in the desired direction, I know something else is "off" such as calorie tracking or possibly something clinical like hypothyroidism, etc.

I measure out my food usually. I will probably change this to always knowing that everyone underestimates what they eay.

I'd say that's a good idea. At least for a little while until you're 100% comfortable. I did so for over a year, but hardly ever do nowadays.

stroutman81 · May 2010

this is a great topic!

I have also had problems I think with this. I am 5'-3" and 125lbs. I work out 2-5 days a week and have been doing so since march of 09
within the first 5 months I lost inches but gained 5 to 6 libs., which I am assuming was muscle. which brought me to the 125 that I am. I have had no changes at all since August (not in inches or weight) I have increased the number of times a week. The length of my workouts are at least 45 minutes. I eat good I dont drink pop or eat junk food. I don't eat much sodium at all.

So if anyone has ideas I would love to hear them.

What's "not a lot of sodium"?

And how many calories are you consuming each day?

How do you measure those calories?

How consistent are you with those calories, meaning weekends and all?

rmccully · May 2010

this is a great topic!

I have also had problems I think with this. I am 5'-3" and 125lbs. I work out 2-5 days a week and have been doing so since march of 09
within the first 5 months I lost inches but gained 5 to 6 libs., which I am assuming was muscle. which brought me to the 125 that I am. I have had no changes at all since August (not in inches or weight) I have increased the number of times a week. The length of my workouts are at least 45 minutes. I eat good I dont drink pop or eat junk food. I don't eat much sodium at all.

So if anyone has ideas I would love to hear them.

What's "not a lot of sodium"?
I do not use salt or eat much processed foods I took the sodium tacker off my log cuz I was always way under the alotment given. (like half or less)

And how many calories are you consuming each day?
I consume 1200-1400 a day some days more if I do two workouts in a day

How do you measure those calories?
not sure what exactly you are asking here

How consistent are you with those calories, meaning weekends and all?
I am always at or near target even on weekends

stroutman81 · May 2010

rmccully - you're in the same boat. You might be borderline too close to maintenance. I'd suggest possibly bumping up the number of times you exercise per week, assuming most weeks you're under 5.

And I meant, do you use a food scale.

rmccully · May 2010

rmccully - you're in the same boat. You might be borderline too close to maintenance. I'd suggest possibly bumping up the number of times you exercise per week, assuming most weeks you're under 5.

And I meant, do you use a food scale.

I do not use a scale but I use measuring cups for most of what I eat. some guessing involved but measure when I can. when I guess I do guess high just to make sure I got it covered.

I have bumped them up. I have been really good at going to the gym at 5:30 am before work i take a class M-T Th-Fr
on thursday I work out in the after noon aswell. they are all for at least 45minutes.

What should I bump it up to? Is it too much to work out in the morning before work and then after work?

stroutman81 · May 2010

I do not use a scale but I use measuring cups for most of what I eat. some guessing involved but measure when I can. when I guess I do guess high just to make sure I got it covered.

I wouldn't leave it to chance. I mean if things were heading in the desired direction, then sure, leave it to chance. No need to muddy the waters if you don't have to. But if they're not, then it's time to get precise until you get a handle on things.

A fellow trainer and a friend of mine put out this very eye-opening video about precision of calories that's worth checking out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjWPclrWVY&feature=player_embedded

What should I bump it up to? Is it too much to work out in the morning before work and then after work?

Not necessarily. But all exercise isn't created equal. Mode, duration and intensity of exercise all matter in terms of answering that question. Context is everything.

I wouldn't necessarily go tweaking your exercise now though. I'd get your nutrition under wraps and go from there.

As noted earlier, the foods comprising your calories can make a big difference too.

naturebaby · May 2010

just enjoying this conversation..bump

naturebaby · May 2010

just enjoying this conversation..bump

izbet106 · May 2010

Some good information I want to remember and reference back to.

Margarette · May 2010

Thanks so much for your help Stroutman. I actually just got back from my dr and my hormones were all out of whack. I am expecting to be back to responding to my feed and exercise. Also I love your alternative to the HRM!!! Thanks so much everyone!

cardigirl · June 2010

Bumping to keep in my queue.

Also, a question. I think I understand about figuring out a sane deficit, but was wondering how one's BF% would affect the calculations? For someone weighing 130lbs with a 30%BF, losing weight might be easier than for someone who weighed 130lbs with an 18%BF. I think. I'm talking women, here.

Also, I think age would play a factor as well, wouldn't it?

Need advice please!

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