Eating at TDEE-20% question

JAT74
JAT74 Posts: 1,081 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
After a few weeks on MFP and after getting off on the wrong foot by eating too few calories (under 1000 initially) I've finally been brave enough to figure out my BMR and have re-calculated my TDEE to something which I think is pretty accurate. This has put me at a TDEE of around 1950 and a BMR of 1400 more of less.

Based on this I've subtracted around 20% from my TDEE in order to lose weight and have set my MFP calories at 1500. I've got ratios of 30% carbs & 35% protein and fat.

I am also eating back my exercise calories but for me I already find that 1500 calories is a lot more than I've been used to for weight loss before so I am struggling to eat enough on days when I work out (which is pretty much daily in some form or another). I am worried that this will hinder my weight loss but at the same time I'm scared to eat all my exercise calories as most days I'd have to eat over 2000 calories in order to net 1500 which is where I should be.

So far in terms of results I haven't seen a lot of movement on the scale or a change in my measurements (well I've lost half an inch on my hips) but I put a lot of it down to an adjustment period and my body getting used to eating higher calories again (ie. reset).

What do you guys think? Am I doing the right thing? There are a lot of people on here who promote eating at TDEE -20% or even higher in some cases as you get closer to maintenance but this is something I'm really not used to, especially as I am burning off 500 or 600 extra calories per day.

I have to admit that I'm really scared I won't lose weight doing what I'm donig and am tempted to try and eat a bit less again but I'm really conscious of not eating below my BMR which is 1400, especially if I exercise. I know that on workout days when I burn off a minimum of an extra 350 calories or more I should be eating at least 1850 (1500 + 350) and if I burn more through exercise (for example yesterday it was 700) but 2200 seems like a huge amount of food for me.

I think half the problem is people around me are telling me that I'm eating way too much and I won't lose the weight I want and I'm trying to be sensible and take the advice of people on here who are eating the right way but it's difficult when you've got so many people telling you that you're wrong.

I have been on the site a month now and have only lost 3 lbs in total. Any advice will be much appreciated.
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Replies

  • Mokey41
    Mokey41 Posts: 5,769 Member
    If you did the TDEE calculation based on your daily exercise then you don't eat those calories back. They're already included in your TDEE. If you want to eat exercise then set your TDEE to sedentary and track exercise separately.
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    Just chiming in to confirm what Mokey has said.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,081 Member
    No, my TDEE is based on being sedentary. I used a calculator which worked it out based on time spent sleeping, sitting down doing nothing plus very light activity like walking around, cooking etc. This is how I arrived at 1950. Without calculating the actual sleep hours and other things I've got my TDEE set at 1850 but I think 1950 is more realistic as although I sit at a desk most of the time and watch a lot of tv in the evenings I also cook daily, have stairs in my house etc.

    I am therefore tracking exercise separately and use a heart rate monitor to work out what I'm burning off extra through workouts, dog walking and other things I class as 'exercise'.

    The problem I'm having is that calories wise I know that eating 1500 calories is TDEE -20% and as it's only 50 cals above my BMR I shouldn't go lower than that as I'm technically putting my body into starvation mode and will halt my weight loss.

    That aside I find that eating back exercise calories is quite hard, especially as it's difficult to keep it healthy. I'm finding that added calories from exercise are often required to be protein and I generally manage to eat around 100-110 grams per day but any more than that and the fat content is quite high and I don't know if this is a bad thing.

    On days when I work out and have to eat over 2000 calories to net 1500 the protein ratio goes up to around 170 or so and I can't see how I can get that much protein.

    I could change my ratios again but I don't want to add more carbs as I'm scared it will make me put on weight again and I am still eating around 80-100 grams of carbs per day which I think is high enough. I just need a little advice from the experts out there.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,081 Member
    Bump
  • prokomds
    prokomds Posts: 318 Member
    May I ask how tall you are? Unless you are pretty short and very small-framed, I kind of wonder about your goals. For comparison, I'm 5'6", pretty small framed, and my goal weight is around 135. Maybe part of your problem is unrealistic expectations?

    The second thing, if you lost 3 pounds in a month, you're doing really well! Even a half pound a week is great when you don't have a lot of weight to lose to begin with

    Honestly, 1500 calories is nothing. I eat 1700 when I don't exercise. If you're having problems making your goal, you can switch to fuller fat versions of things (2% milk instead of skim, and don't buy anything advertised as the "low-fat" or "low-calorie" version) - then you're still eating the same quantity of food for more calories. You're not going to gain weight with these calories unless you have some external medical issue going on

    There's this image of the person on a "diet" just getting by on a few lettuce leaves or whatever... bleck. Living life and doing physical activity requires fuel. Fuel your body! Just be patient, you'll get there :)
  • meribethd
    meribethd Posts: 92 Member
    two things.

    1. when did you switch to eating 20% under your tdee? it can take a few weeks to see change.
    2. why not consider calculating your tdee based on your exercise level and try eating that instead, rather than calculating your exercise cals every day? i find it's easier that way (it's how i do it). i just work out 5 - 6 times a week, and usually eat around 1800 cals/day.
    3. maybe switch your ratios a little--35% carbs, 35% protein, 30% fat? that's what mine are set at--my daily goals are something ike 158 carbs, 158 protein, 60something fat. it might help a little bit--slightly lower protein and a little more wiggle room in carbs. is there a reason you're keeping your carbs under 100? just curious--that's really rather low.
  • imchicbad
    imchicbad Posts: 1,650 Member
    Ok here's mine: follow this, if you need help let me know. But you have to be VERY HONEST or it won't work.


    Choose your sex: female
    Please input your height (in inches): 60
    Please input your weight (in pounds): 138
    Neck measurement (in inches): 13
    Waist measurement (in inches): 31
    Hip measurement (at widest point): 36 = 30.7% body fat

    Your age: 38
    Choose your sex: female
    Your height (in inches): 60
    Your CURRENT weight (in pounds): 138.4
    Your GOAL weight (in pounds): 125
    Your body fat percentage (if known): 30.7=

    Harris-Benedict Formula
    There are a few different methods to calculating yourbasal metabolic rate (BMR). One of the most popular, developed in the early 1900's is called the Harris-Benedict formula.

    Based on this formula, your current BMR is 1360 calories.



    Based on how much activity you do on an average day, the calories in the right column will be the number of calories that you will be able to eat at your goal weight. If you start eating those calories right now (eating like the thinner you), you will eventually become that thinner person. As you get closer to your goal weight, your weight loss will start to slow down. It is OK to eat a few hundred calories less per day (200-300) to speed up your weight loss at this point.

    Activity Level Daily Calories
    Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 1562
    Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 1790
    Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk) 2018
    Very Active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk) 2246
    Extremely Active (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.) 2474

    Mine was moderate. Take 2018-200= 1818. And I burn about 500 calories so I meet the BMR of 1360 ( give or take 60 calories).
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,081 Member
    Hi, I'm only 5 foot 4 and very small framed. My waist is now only 27 inches and when I weighed 122 lbs a few years ago it was 25 inches but I was skinny fat! My body fat then was around 28% and now at 144 lbs it is at least 32%.

    I think that I'd look good at around 118 lbs because at 122 lbs I still had chunky thighs and upper arms although my boobs, waist etc. got much smaller. To give you an idea my wrists are 6 inches around and I can overlap my thumb and middle finger around them. My neck is 12 inches and I have very small ankles too.

    My mum is taller than me at 5 foot 6.5 and she currently weighs around 120 lbs but she's also skinny fat. In clothes she looks really small but she's carrying a lot of fat on her body.

    I've done calculations about my weight at a lower body fat % and it will be around 115 or so so I don't think that's unrealistic for me at all. I am just a bit conscious of eating too much fat and too many carbs and not losing that's all. I'm trying to eat more protein but it's hard.
  • crystal8208
    crystal8208 Posts: 284 Member

    So far in terms of results I haven't seen a lot of movement on the scale or a change in my measurements (well I've lost half an inch on my hips) but I put a lot of it down to an adjustment period and my body getting used to eating higher calories again (ie. reset).


    Something very important got missed here. 3 pounds in a month is an excellent start. Slow and steady wins the race. But most importantly, you lost inches! 1/2 inch off in a month is phenomenal! One gal on here, actually gained 25 pounds from her lowest weight, but was a full 2 dress sizes smaller. Scales don't matter too much. Mostly you want the look right? Fuel the body and lift heavy things... You're doing great! :love:
  • KBeener
    KBeener Posts: 16 Member
    bump

    thanks for posting, i'm coming back to this later
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    Eat more full fat items, instead of low fat items for your dairy. Eat some peanut butter. Avocados. Nuts. Almonds, walnuts, cashews, whatever you like. A couple of handfuls of nuts per day should help boost up your calorie intake. The healthy fats will help you stay satisfied too, small volume of food with a big calorie punch.
  • imchicbad
    imchicbad Posts: 1,650 Member
    Hi, I'm only 5 foot 4 and very small framed. My waist is now only 27 inches and when I weighed 122 lbs a few years ago it was 25 inches but I was skinny fat! My body fat then was around 28% and now at 144 lbs it is at least 32%.

    I think that I'd look good at around 118 lbs because at 122 lbs I still had chunky thighs and upper arms although my boobs, waist etc. got much smaller. To give you an idea my wrists are 6 inches around and I can overlap my thumb and middle finger around them. My neck is 12 inches and I have very small ankles too.

    My mum is taller than me at 5 foot 6.5 and she currently weighs around 120 lbs but she's also skinny fat. In clothes she looks really small but she's carrying a lot of fat on her body.

    I've done calculations about my weight at a lower body fat % and it will be around 115 or so so I don't think that's unrealistic for me at all. I am just a bit conscious of eating too much fat and too many carbs and not losing that's all. I'm trying to eat more protein but it's hard.

    I'm only 5 feet tall I weigh 136 now but I'm a size three. I'm doing p90 x and I love to lift weights so, I'm not worried about the scale. I'm gaining muscle. And that weighs more than fat. So I wouldn't emphasize so much on the scale, pay more attention to your measurements . I eat 1800 to 1900 and I'm getting smaller! But more defined.
  • Zylahe
    Zylahe Posts: 772 Member
    I think TDEE-20% sounds like a good place to start. I'd suggest try it and see how you feel/ look in a month and adjust if necessary.

    theres some really good ideas here, One thing to note is that everyones metabolism is slightly different so what worked brilliantly for one person may not work as well for you.
    Also remember that BMR, TDEE calcualtions are estimates. IF you have been eating very low colories for a long time your body will be more efficient and you will burn less calories than you may think.
    ALso I have found that a lot of excersize calorie calculators are notorious for overestimating calories burnt. (MFP included). I like to do what lots of others have/ will suggest which is to only eat back HALF of your excersize calories. That way you get back some of the energy, but the more you excersize the faster you burn.
    Also as muscle burns more than fat at rest (and is denser so you look better), if you arn't already start looking into weight lifting. (there are plenty of threads on here with good suggestions of how to start).

    And although you may not have noticed weight/ inch loss yet, you should be starting to feel fitter which is a good result in itself.

    As for daily/ weekly weigh ins, remember to look at the general trend over at least a month and ignore daily fluctuations.
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    If you eat at TDEE - 20%, the TDEE should include your exercise, so you would not eat exercise calories back too, they are already included.
  • matchete8
    matchete8 Posts: 7 Member
    I often find these conversations pretty hard to grasp. Before we started using complex formulas, people lost weight by being more active and having a healthy diet.
    According to Harris Benedict, in order to lose weight, I should be eating about 500 more calories than I am now. MPF says I should be eating about 1850, I tend to stick to this or often come just under and I try to keep my calories clean. Before joining this site, I was eating round about that anyway and my downfall was eating whatever I fancied at the weekend! plus any other general piece of junk I could get when I felt the need to binge.
    Don't get me wrong, I haven't really lost any weight since I joined just over a month ago but it makes me feel better that I eat only when I'm hungry, regardless of how many times that may be sometimes too often than I'ld like, all I aim for is to eat clean.

    So please can someone explain and I don't mean this in a rude way .. how increasing my current intake by 500 will help. And where do I get these 500 calories from?! short of force feeding myself food my body doesn't need or more to the point, calories I can't physically fit in short of having a huge slab of chocolate fudge cake!
  • Flowers4Julia
    Flowers4Julia Posts: 521 Member
    Lots of great advice here. I am not sure if this has been mentioned or if you already do this. When you use your HRM to calculate exercise calories make sure your subtract the calories you would have burned just sitting around.

    If you don't - you will then double count calories so to speak and end up eating back too many.

    A lot of folks just eat back half to try to accomplish that, but that it still isn't right because it is probably then under eating. So, take the time to figure out what you would just burn sitting. You could take your BMR and divide it by 24 hour day and this could give you an approximate number of calories per hour of exercise to subtract off your HRM number for a "NET" burn - then log and eat back just that many.

    Hope this could help! edit to add:

    **I have done the exercise calorie thing both ways, with HRM (net burned calories) and using the spreadsheet on the "In place of a road map" thread. I prefer the spreadsheet because it figures in activities by the time and effort- which really is good enough. It spreads the calories out over the week. I find it easier to eat them back that way than all at once on a day I exercise.

    Also, Yes, losing 3 in one month is really the rate you want to go for since you don't have that many pounds to lose! Trust the process and give it more time. :-)
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    I often find these conversations pretty hard to grasp. Before we started using complex formulas, people lost weight by being more active and having a healthy diet.
    According to Harris Benedict, in order to lose weight, I should be eating about 500 more calories than I am now. MPF says I should be eating about 1850, I tend to stick to this or often come just under and I try to keep my calories clean. Before joining this site, I was eating round about that anyway and my downfall was eating whatever I fancied at the weekend! plus any other general piece of junk I could get when I felt the need to binge.
    Don't get me wrong, I haven't really lost any weight since I joined just over a month ago but it makes me feel better that I eat only when I'm hungry, regardless of how many times that may be sometimes too often than I'ld like, all I aim for is to eat clean.

    So please can someone explain and I don't mean this in a rude way .. how increasing my current intake by 500 will help. And where do I get these 500 calories from?! short of force feeding myself food my body doesn't need or more to the point, calories I can't physically fit in short of having a huge slab of chocolate fudge cake!

    The reason is so that you get enough nutrition, vitamins, minerals, and keep proper hormonal balance.... there are a lot of hormones that affect your eating and health. Also, if you don't eat enough calories, your body will turn to using your muscle to burn off for energy instead of your fat. This isn't a good thing, especially as we are older, it is important to keep as much strength as possible or we will be too frail.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,081 Member
    Hi I see what you're saying about calories burned by just sitting around and subtracting that off the exercise calories. I suppose that's a good point really but I think it would take some doing to calculate that accurately.

    The main problem I'm having is getting my head round not eating below my BMR, so for example today I'm so far on a net calorie intake of 1335 and my BMR is 1450 but I've actually eaten almost 2000 actual calories and burned off 639 through exercise.

    I'm not done with the exercise yet as I've got at least another 30 minutes cleaning to do today and from earlier calculations I am sure that will be at least another 100 or 150 calories I'll burn. If I add that on to the current totals that will put me at a net of under 1200 which is much too low so I will need to eat at least another 300 calories.

    In terms of calorie intake I'll then be on almost 2300 for today which to me is a huge quantity of food! Plus I'm worried about how much fat I'm eating as I've already exceeded my preferred fat intake for the day which is hardly set to be low. I've already eaten half an avocado, olive oil, nuts, some mozerella cheese etc. so that's contributed to the fat I've eaten and also helped to get me to my protein goals.

    I've tried to keep my carbs lower than my protein because everything I've read has indicated that people have more success with weight loss if they eat high protein with lower carbs. I'm not actually eating 'low' carb as it's still 25-30% of my diet but I'm just trying to reduce the carbs and sugar I have each day.

    I am aware of hormone inbalances and I'm currently reading Jillian Michaels book which talks a lot about this. I'm trying to switch to eating good fats, cutting out artificial sweetners and additives as well as a lot of processed food. I can't go completely organic due to budget and also the availability of the foods where I live.

    I've also started strength training with weights 4 times a week so I know I'm on the right track. I'm just a bit concerned about the high number of calories I'm eating as I've never done this before and I'm really scared I'll put on more weight and I've already got nothing in my wardrobe which fits me! Maybe I'll try and calculate the calories I'd burn being sedentary and subtract this from my exercise calories so that I'm not eating them all back and maybe that will be easier and help speed up my weight loss as I don't want to find myself eating them twice. Based on my BMR being 1450 then that would mean I'd normally burn 60 calories per hour if I divided that by 24 (although I'm sure your body burns less calories during sleep than during periods of being awake).
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    I think you are overthinking it. Figure out your TDEE including all exercise and all activities. Remember it is an estimate though. Eat 20% less. Do not keep track of exercise calories, you don't need to, it should all be included in TDEE already. After 4-6 weeks evaluate, did you lose, gain or stay the same? Adjust if necessary.
  • jzammetti
    jzammetti Posts: 1,956 Member
    If you did the TDEE calculation based on your daily exercise then you don't eat those calories back. They're already included in your TDEE. If you want to eat exercise then set your TDEE to sedentary and track exercise separately.

    ^^^^ this
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,081 Member
    I don't want to calculate my TDEE including all my activity because I don't think I'll end up eating correctly that way. Each day is different for me and some days I work out twice and burn off 700 calories, other days it's once and 300 calories and other days I do a load of cleaning, workout, walk the dog and burn over closer to 1000. Then I can have another day when I do nothing but be lazy and burn no extra calories.

    I think for me it's therefore better to add on my exercise calories so I can eat accordingly. Yes it's a bit of a pain that way to eat more or less each day but at least I know I'm eating enough if I exercise more. I don't want to do it based on an average which may not be accurate and then find I'm eating the same every day and not losing anything because of it. In the past I know I've found it hard to be consistent with my workouts but so far I'm on my 4th week of training 6 days a week and have managed to stick with it and do more than I'd originally planned.

    I just want to see the scales and the tape measure start moving a bit more although I must admit I do feel a bit stonger after doing all this training.
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    If the way you're doing it isn't working - don't do it that way anymore.


    Do it the way it's been recommended by several people that have found success doing it that way.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,081 Member
    Can you elaborate? You're not making any sense? What exactly is the way that's 'been recommended by several people'? I didn't say what I was doing wasn't working, I was just looking for a little reassurance that what I'm doing is right and to see whether anyone had any recommendations.

    If you eat the same day in day out and do the same exercise (or not) day in day out then calculating TDEE to include daily activity will work for you but that isn't my case.

    I just wanted to make sure I'm on the right track and have basically upped my calories by a huge amount compared to what I was eating before both when trying to lose weight and also when I gained the weight in the first place.

    Logic says that I'll gain more based on this but now I know a lot more about my BMR and TDEE I now know it should be the other way round and I'll start losing. It's just a very scary prospect that's all.
  • Mokey41
    Mokey41 Posts: 5,769 Member
    I don't want to calculate my TDEE including all my activity because I don't think I'll end up eating correctly that way. Each day is different for me and some days I work out twice and burn off 700 calories, other days it's once and 300 calories and other days I do a load of cleaning, workout, walk the dog and burn over closer to 1000. Then I can have another day when I do nothing but be lazy and burn no extra calories.

    Set your TDEE to sedentary, no lightly active or anything beyond what sedentary gives you. Exercise is only actual exercise, like running, aerobics, lifting, etc. It's not cleaning, walking upstairs, general life things. Try eating back 1/2 of your actual exercise for a while if you want more bang for your buck. With only a little to lose it's going to be slow no matter what you do.
  • windyday61
    windyday61 Posts: 26 Member
    I don't want to calculate my TDEE including all my activity because I don't think I'll end up eating correctly that way. Each day is different for me and some days I work out twice and burn off 700 calories, other days it's once and 300 calories and other days I do a load of cleaning, workout, walk the dog and burn over closer to 1000. Then I can have another day when I do nothing but be lazy and burn no extra calories.

    Set your TDEE to sedentary, no lightly active or anything beyond what sedentary gives you. Exercise is only actual exercise, like running, aerobics, lifting, etc. It's not cleaning, walking upstairs, general life things. Try eating back 1/2 of your actual exercise for a while if you want more bang for your buck. With only a little to lose it's going to be slow no matter what you do.


    Agree 100%. I only log actual exercise.
  • JustAGirlyGeek
    JustAGirlyGeek Posts: 149 Member
    bump
  • 6mimi
    6mimi Posts: 1,432 Member
    bump
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    It will be easier if you calculate in your exercise. Because then all you are going to do is eat to one number. You won't be fluctuating the way you are. I eat 1800 every day. Whether I work out or not. It is so much easier because then you don't have to worry about under eating as much. You just get as close to that number as possible. My -20% is actually 1895...but because I am like you and some days I don't work out I dropped it to 1800 to account for that. Some days I go over a little, some days I am under a little. I hope that makes it a little more easier to understand. That is what people are saying when they say to try the method they are suggesting.

    Just remember, at the end of the week as long as your days are averaging out you will be fine.

    Oh...and I just started the TDEE method 3 weeks ago..and I have lost a pound a week. The first week I didn't lose anything. The the 2nd week lost one pound, and last week lost 2 even though I am only expecting a one pound loss a week. And I just quit smoking a month ago and haven't gained any post quitting weight, so this method works. The first few weeks you might not notice weight loss as your body adjusts to more food. But be patient and you will see the changes.
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    I don't want to calculate my TDEE including all my activity because I don't think I'll end up eating correctly that way.

    Okay, well the subject of the topic is "Eating at TDEE-20% question" and the TDEE -% method works just like that, you eat the same amount whether it is a workout day or not.

    If you are going to go to the trouble of logging and accounting for all of your exercise calories, then you might as well do the MFP recommended calories + exercise cals.
  • icmuse
    icmuse Posts: 263 Member
    Eat more full fat items, instead of low fat items for your dairy. Eat some peanut butter. Avocados. Nuts. Almonds, walnuts, cashews, whatever you like. A couple of handfuls of nuts per day should help boost up your calorie intake. The healthy fats will help you stay satisfied too, small volume of food with a big calorie punch.

    ^^^ thumbs up to this ^^^

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