Eating at TDEE-20% question
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I think that some of the people who've answered my post are a little confused.
If you eat 1800 calories for example and that is TDEE -20% for you (based on you being 'active' ie. working out every day) then you are banking on the fact that you burn off the exact same calories through exercise from day to day which is a dangerous assumption. For most of us I think that's unrealistic as we do different amounts of exercise from day to day.
Using the method I've used ie. basing my TDEE on being sedentary which normally I am as I'm at home all day with no commuting to do or kids to look after etc. then you can be more accurate with what you're actually burning off 'extra' on a daily basis.
I know that in order to eat at TDEE (sedentary) -20% I should eat no less than 1500 calories if I'm inactive that day so if I have a 'lazy' day I do just that. On days when I work out for longer and burn more I therefore increase my calorie intake accordingly.
I am very conscious of not going below my BMR of 1450 because I know this is bad for my body but on the other hand I know that if I'm sedentary I shouldn't eat more than 1500 and if I set my activity level to a higher rate and re-calculate my TDEE then if I get lazy and simply eat 1800 or more calories per day then surely I'm more likely to gain and not lose.
Talking about actual workout calories I don't agree with this being calories earned from gym workouts only. The reason I say this is that when I calculated my TDEE the method I used took into account the minutes I sleep for every day, the amount of very light activity I do ie. cooking, washing, walking around the house and nothing more. Based on this and this alone my TDEE was 1900 which equates to 1500 calories if I -20% from my TDEE.
I therefore think that by eating back all exercise calories (including those earnt by walking the dog at a moderate pace, running up and down stairs at home and cleaning as well as 'actual' workouts I should be able to add on those and still lose weight.
It's early days for me as I've only been on MFP for 4 weeks and in that time I've changed a lot fo things regarding my settings when I worked out this equation. This doesn't stop me from being a little nervous about the whole thing and whether or not it will work as in the past I've lost a lot of weight by donig it the wrong way ie. eating a very low calorie diet. I am now trying to change things and rectify past mistakes but it's not so easy.
I would never go by the MFP recommended calories and then eat back exercise calories as I think this is too low for me. MFP recommends that I eat around 1300 calories per day but that's below my BMR so I know it's not healthy.0 -
I am 5'0" medium frame with 13 pounds left to lose.
I workout every day and have somewhat physical job.
What I did was:
I calculated my TDEE to Light 1815, Moderate 2046 and went right in between them, because some days are physically heavier than others. So after adding those two up, dividing them in half and taking 20% OFF I came up with 1544 calories a day to eat.
Doing it this way really helps me keeping my macros under control and I do not track my workouts, since they are already calculated in this number.0 -
No, my TDEE is based on being sedentary. I used a calculator which worked it out based on time spent sleeping, sitting down doing nothing plus very light activity like walking around, cooking etc. This is how I arrived at 1950. Without calculating the actual sleep hours and other things I've got my TDEE set at 1850 but I think 1950 is more realistic as although I sit at a desk most of the time and watch a lot of tv in the evenings I also cook daily, have stairs in my house etc.
I am therefore tracking exercise separately and use a heart rate monitor to work out what I'm burning off extra through workouts, dog walking and other things I class as 'exercise'.
The problem I'm having is that calories wise I know that eating 1500 calories is TDEE -20% and as it's only 50 cals above my BMR I shouldn't go lower than that as I'm technically putting my body into starvation mode and will halt my weight loss.
That aside I find that eating back exercise calories is quite hard, especially as it's difficult to keep it healthy. I'm finding that added calories from exercise are often required to be protein and I generally manage to eat around 100-110 grams per day but any more than that and the fat content is quite high and I don't know if this is a bad thing.
On days when I work out and have to eat over 2000 calories to net 1500 the protein ratio goes up to around 170 or so and I can't see how I can get that much protein.
I could change my ratios again but I don't want to add more carbs as I'm scared it will make me put on weight again and I am still eating around 80-100 grams of carbs per day which I think is high enough. I just need a little advice from the experts out there.
To up your protein, you may have to supplement...I eat a lot of protein, but I still have to supplement with whey to meet my macros. This is also a quick and easy way to get your calories up on workout days. Also, eat some nuts...avocado...roast or sautee some veggies in olive oil rather than steaming them, etc. All of those things provide a good calorie bump without feeling like you're just chowing down and are very healthy. They do have quite a bit of fat, but they are heart healthy fats...if your 35% fats, you shouldn't have any issue incorporating these into your diet and meeting your macro goals.0 -
To be honest I'd rather try and eat 30% fat but if I do that I would have to increase either carbs or protein and I don't want to do that. Plus I find it hard to keep my fat content down. I have looked at other people's diaries and the only people who seem to eat very low fat are those who eat high carb diets or those who eat 'low fat' foods and I know that neither of those things are good. Most days I eat olive oil. a little cheese, nuts, peanut butter, avocado and foods like this. I try to eat a lower amount of saturated fat if I can. I also try to eat a low sugar diet and I've cut out artificial sweetners so now I have tea and coffee without any sweetner or sugar at all. Now and again I allow myself a little honey in tea as a treat, or on veggies I'm cooking, in yogurt but it's less than once a day.
I have a protein shake (30g of powder) at least once a day too but I can't afford to buy more at the moment so I stick with that and mix it with 100ml of skimmed milk then top it up with water. That adds around 20g of protein but if I'm really low on protein I double it so I'm getting 40g from the shake.
Most of my protein is from meat or chicken as I eat this daily but I need to start eating less fat from meat sources I think. I usually drain the fat from meat/chicken and blot it on kitchen paper. I should eat more fish I know too but I really don't like fish, only shellfish. I can stomach Salmon from time to time but then you read bad things about farmed fish so it's a little off putting.
Other than meat, fish and protein shakes the only other high protein sources I've found are cheese and some yogurt. Where I live the foods you can buy are quite limited so it's hard to get lower fat cheese like cottage cheese so I end up buying full fat cheese. I know that pulses are also quite high in protein too so I eat beans like kidney beans from time to time.0 -
Try this TDEE spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGVTbGswLUUzUHNVVUlNSW9wZWloeUE#gid=14
It helped me figure out my calories.
At first, I had my TDEE at 2600, my BMR at 1955. But this was way more accurate and put my BMR at 1755 or so. I am now eating 1800 a day instead of 2050. Hope this helps.
Good luck
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To be honest, I'd say you should do whatever you want to do because you aren't taking in anything you're being told. Calculate your TDEE in whatever method you choose, count cleaning as exercise and eat those calories back. Sounds like you already made up your mind and would just like someone to agree with you.0
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You are trying to pick and choose from two different methods. But, okay, try it your way and come back in 6 weeks and let us know how it is working out for you.0
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I think that some of the people who've answered my post are a little confused.
If you eat 1800 calories for example and that is TDEE -20% for you (based on you being 'active' ie. working out every day) then you are banking on the fact that you burn off the exact same calories through exercise from day to day which is a dangerous assumption. For most of us I think that's unrealistic as we do different amounts of exercise from day to day.
This is incorrect - it doesn't assume you work out the same every day,
there are several activity levels to chose from, ranging from sedentary , lightly active, moderately active etc depending on how many days you do exercise.
If you only do 3 days a week, your extra calories spread out over the week are obviously more than sedentary, but less than the extra calories if you were working out 5 days a week.
The whole point is to pick the right activity level and then you can eat the same every day which will make it easier to plan.0 -
I didn't say what I was doing wasn't working, I was just looking for a little reassurance that what I'm doing is right and to see whether anyone had any recommendations.
You said, "So far in terms of results I haven't seen a lot of movement on the scale or a change in my measurements..." That sounds like you saying it's not working.
And, as many of us have said - what you're doing is not right. Do it the way we've told you. Use the TDEE-20% properly. Which would mean you eat the same amount (within reason) and don't eat exercise Cals back - because you've already accounted for your weekly exercise by calculating your TDEE. Or don't use the TDEE method - use the standard MFP method, instead.0 -
Lots of people on here calculate their TDEE like I have an eat back their exercise calories every day. I'd rather log my workouts and how much I've burnt off through exercise every day anyway so I can keep track of my training but I can definitely see that for some people it's easier to do it based on an average of moderately active, lightly active etc. but it can't possibly be accurate like this as workouts can vary a lot in terms of burn and length of workout etc. Most people have good intentions when it comes to training and it's not always as you plan ie. if I set it to 5-6 days which I am doing now in terms of training then if I miss a day's training I'll be lost as I won't know how much less I should really eat.
It's not a problem for me to spend the time workout out extra calories based on acitivity as I'm home all day anyway and normally add on my calories immediately after each workout. As I normally work out most days before lunch, it's easy for me to see how much extra I can eat based on my burn that day.
I'm trying to use the TDEE calculator/spreadsheet recommended by one of the previous posters and will see what it comes out with.0 -
As an example, here are my stats from - http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/
Activity Level Daily Calories
Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 1747
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 2002
Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk) 2257
Very Active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk) 2512
Extremely Active (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.) 2766
You can see that there are differing activity levels, and different calorie allowances.
The only one that assumes daily exercise is the Extremely active category.
I can just chose the one closest to my activity level, deduct the 20% and away you go - it really isn't any more complicated than that.
EDIT : you can just ignore this, as you seem to be intent on trying your own hybrid of MFP's method, and a sedentary TDEE.
Good luck.0 -
Realistically I can't expect to see a lot of results after such a short time so I don't know that what I'm doing isn't working, it's impossible to say so early on. I've only been using this method for around 2 weeks really anyway as before I was eating much lower calories in general so I know I have to give it longer.
I just wanted some general feedback from those who are having or have had success by doing what I'm doing. I know my own lifestyle and I know that my TDEE is not always going to be the same although at the moment I could say that I was very active based on the workouts I'm doing alone. The rest of my life is sedentary so it's impossible to calculate exactly my activity level unless I put myself down as sedentary and then add on extra calories I burn through exercise because really that's the only thing I'm doing to make myself more active.0 -
According to Harris Benedict, in order to lose weight, I should be eating about 500 more calories than I am now. MPF says I should be eating about 1850,
Because MFP subtracts 500 calories while online calculators don't. So it sounds like MFP and/or the formula both have you at the exact same calorie count.0 -
LadyRaven58 - based on what you are saying I'd have to put myself down as 'Very Active' because I am doing hard exercise sports 6/7 days per week (although it doesn't specify for how long, how many calories burned or with how much intensity).
If I was then to subtract 20% it would equate to a daily calorie intake of 2000 calories by your method.
Now that is based on me working out at this frequency ie. 6/7 days a week which I am right now, although again there is no accounting for how many calories I'm actually burning or whether or not some weeks I only work out for 5 days etc.. I would already be eating 550 calories abovemy BMR every day, whether I worked out of not and whether I burned off 200 calories from exercise or 700 calories from exercise that day.
Surely that can't work, I can't see how it can. If I only burn off 200 calories on one day and I'm eating so much I will surely GAIN weight, yet on days when I burn off for example 650 calories (similar to today) then I am not going to be eating enough as my real net amount will be below my BMR.
I can't trust the calculations on MFP either because it puts me at around 1650 calories6 based on being sedentary wh6ich is way too low and it tells me that based on this in order to lose weight I should eat below my BMR which isn't healthy. I could add back my workout calories to the amount it recommends I eat (around 1300) but it's still not going to amount to enough food.
Using the method I'm using, today I ate 2175 calories as I burned off 636 calories from exercise whereas tomorrow I might only burn off 300 so I know I can only eat 1800. Can't anyone see that this works? It's simple maths.0 -
Realistically I can't expect to see a lot of results after such a short time so I don't know that what I'm doing isn't working, it's impossible to say so early on. I've only been using this method for around 2 weeks really anyway as before I was eating much lower calories in general so I know I have to give it longer.
I just wanted some general feedback from those who are having or have had success by doing what I'm doing. I know my own lifestyle and I know that my TDEE is not always going to be the same although at the moment I could say that I was very active based on the workouts I'm doing alone. The rest of my life is sedentary so it's impossible to calculate exactly my activity level unless I put myself down as sedentary and then add on extra calories I burn through exercise because really that's the only thing I'm doing to make myself more active.
On a side note, I have seen your other posts where you were determined to eat 1100. This is a big step for you. Unless you go 3500 calories over you BMR with no exercise, you are not going to gain.
You are over thinking it.
Once again, glad you are eating more.0 -
I'd like to point out that (based on you're weight ticker) you're under 150lbs. At that weight, and given the fact that you're a 38 year old female, 500+ calorie burns from exercise means you're working out a LOT. It's doable, but are you really full out running for over an hour a day or something comparable?
A lot of people eat back only a fraction of their exercise calories to account for potential overestimates of energy expenditure. I prefer to go with a TDEE including exercise and leave it at that myself.0 -
Lots of people on here calculate their TDEE like I have an eat back their exercise calories every day.
They do? I didn't see a lot of people responding to this post saying they are doing it this way.
The definition of TDEE is Total Daily Energy Expenditure. By definition it is all of your calorie needs..... AVERAGED out over a week. Your no workout days and your workout days are averaged out over the week. Your daily calories spread out over a week averages out. Your weight loss or maintenance or gain will be the product of weekly trends, not one day of eating over or under.0 -
Can you elaborate? You're not making any sense? What exactly is the way that's 'been recommended by several people'? I didn't say what I was doing wasn't working, I was just looking for a little reassurance that what I'm doing is right and to see whether anyone had any recommendations.
If you eat the same day in day out and do the same exercise (or not) day in day out then calculating TDEE to include daily activity will work for you but that isn't my case.
I just wanted to make sure I'm on the right track and have basically upped my calories by a huge amount compared to what I was eating before both when trying to lose weight and also when I gained the weight in the first place.
Logic says that I'll gain more based on this but now I know a lot more about my BMR and TDEE I now know it should be the other way round and I'll start losing. It's just a very scary prospect that's all.
Do what works best for you. I calculated my TDEE without exercise as well, because I do not exercise the same every day. You do want to get as much in though if you are burning that many calories a day by exercise. I do not log anything but actual exercise (i.e., I do not log cleaning or cooking, etc.). If you are trying to get in some more calories and protein I would recommend a protein shake. It is not a whole lot of food but can add any where from 200-400 calories (do 1-2 cups of frozen berries or mixed fruit (about 80-100 Cal a cup), 1/2-1 cup non fat yogurt, 1 cup of milk, or 1/2 cup milk, 1/2 cup of juice, and maybe 1 tsp sugar). Adjust to your thickness level that you like. The smoothie I make is 1 cup berries, 3/4-1 cup milk, 1/2 cup nonfat yogurt and 1 tsp sugar=210 Calories. My husband has the same but adds orange juice instead of milk and adds a serving of Whey Protein Powder (which has something like 60g protein and is about 140 calories). The smoothie my husband makes is about 500 calories. The protein is good for you if you are working out.0 -
I went from around 850 or less for several years (and gaining, rather than losing) to 1200-1490 and have began losing weight. It definitely is harder to eat more when you're not used to it, but your body will level out and begin to lose weight. I gained a few lbs of water weight at first from the influx of food, but you will lose more when you eat enough. Just stick to it for a month or longer before you try something else. The lbs won't drop off, but they will come off with time. This is long term, not a diet.0
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How many calories were you eating before you joined MFP? Were you maintaining your weight at that level? If so, then that is your actual TDEE. A calculator can't tell you an exact number. Only actual experience will tell you that.
So take that maintenance level and subtract 500 cals to lose 1 pound per week.
Were you exercising before you joined MFP? If so, then your exercise is already factored into your TDEE, so don't eat any cals back.
If you were not exercising before you joined here, then count your exercise cals. But deduct your TDEE per hour rate from your cal total to get your 'net' cals. Or just eat back 1/2 of them. But only count actual heart rate raising exercise.
But seriously, weight loss doesn't have to be as complicated as you are trying to make it. Simply eat less and move more than you were before and you will lose weight. If you are getting too hungry, or losing too quickly, then eat a little more. If you aren't losing weight, or not as quickly as you like, then eat a little less.
People were successful in losing weight for many generations before the internet and BMR calculators were ever created.0 -
bump...for later!0
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I find it funny that people have trouble eating a certain amount of calories that is supposed to be less than what they expend (typically) in a day. Whereas... you obviously didn't get to the point where you needed to lose weight eating less than that.0
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Thank you, finally someone who agrees that activity levels can vary greatly from day to day!
Regarding calories burned, maybe it's because I'm not as fit as I thought but since I got a heart rate monitor it shows that my resting heart rate is over 80, around 84 normally. My other half has a restaing heart rate of just over 60! When I'm working out doing a very intensive workout (like I did today for 40 minutes) using weights and cardio (HIIT) my heart rate went as high as 160! When doing a much less intense workout like yesterday when I did the vaccuming my heart rate was around 145. I was lugging the hoover up and down 2 sets of stairs and all over the house and cleaned for quite a long time without stopping. Hoovering was followed by mopping. I don't think it's therefore unrealistic to think that I'm burning off 500 calories a day through strenuous exercise. I'm following Jillian Michaels body revolution 90 day programme and train 6 days a week for 30-40 minutes during that plus I often do an extra 30 minute cardio workout on top or cleaning for over an hour on other days when I don't do the extra cardio.
I logged cleaning as part of working out and added on the calories becauseI only normally have time to do it once a week as I'm too busy during the rest of the week so it's not part of my regular activity. I don't normally log things like cooking, and other daily activities which hardly raise my heart rate, only things which get it really high and believe me cleaning in my house does (I have 4 floors!)0 -
I get what you're saying. I had mine set to TDEE-20% but set to sedentary because I wanted to track my day to day exercise calories. That worked really well for me! I only ended up switching back to the MFP numbers because it came out to pretty much the same amount of calories when I set MFP to "Lightly Active". A fitbit is on its way to me this week too, so I'll have an even better idea of my actual daily burn at work!
You shouldn't be afraid to eat over 2000 calories. Think of your exercise in a totally different category. If you exercise 500 calories, then you need to replace that 500 calories for fuel. Once you've replaced those calories so that your body has the fuel that it needs, then you focus on your weight loss number. So, you eat your 1500 calories that is your limit for losing weight.
It was a lot easier for me to compartmentalize that way. I exercise to be fit, not to lose weight. So, I need to fuel what I'm doing in order to boost my fitness level. Then, I have the amount of calories I can eat to lose weight. When you add it together, it often goes above 2000, but my calories in are always < my calories out, so I lose weight.
(Except this week because I have had ALL OF THE SODIUM, but that has nothing to do with my actual weight lost. heeehee.)0 -
The simple answer is to custom set your calorie goal (based on whatever calculator you choose) and then eat back your exercise calories.
Do that for four weeks, be consistent with food and exercise logging and adjust if required.0 -
Hi eyeshuh
It's nice to hear from someone else who's having success using the method I'm trying. I've just actually gone back into the MFP settings and changed my activity level so that the reading is closer to my sedentary TDEE (based on lightly active as you've said) and then setting my calorie intake manually to be just above my BMR. I'm happy eating back exercise calories and feel they're pretty accurate but if I find I'm not losing by the end of this month I might change things again.
Thanks to the very rude poster who said that I didn't get to the point of needing to lose weight without eating too much so they can't understand how I find it hard to eat my TDEE! Sorry but some of us got this way by eating too little. Admittedly I had some days when I ate something quite unhealthy but on the whole I stuck to eating 1200 calories or less and I steadily gained weight like that.
In 2010 I lost weight and went down to124lbs but I did this by eating around 800 calories per day and doing cardio workouts 3-5 times a week and then when I was at that weight I increased my calories to around 950 and then later 1200 and THAT's how I got where I am now. Not all of us stuff our faces all day long and end up overweight (technically I have a normal BMI and body weight for my height). I've always workout out at least 3 days a week since at least 2002.
In my early 20s I was a typical student and I ate VERY badly and then I was probably overeating and that was the start of my problems but that time round I simply added in a little exercise and ate more healthily but wasn't eating too little and the weight came off. I found it difficult to sustain as I got older and that's when I started drastically cutting calories which was a big mistake.0 -
Thank you, finally someone who agrees that activity levels can vary greatly from day to day!
Regarding calories burned, maybe it's because I'm not as fit as I thought but since I got a heart rate monitor it shows that my resting heart rate is over 80, around 84 normally. My other half has a restaing heart rate of just over 60! When I'm working out doing a very intensive workout (like I did today for 40 minutes) using weights and cardio (HIIT) my heart rate went as high as 160! When doing a much less intense workout like yesterday when I did the vaccuming my heart rate was around 145. I was lugging the hoover up and down 2 sets of stairs and all over the house and cleaned for quite a long time without stopping. Hoovering was followed by mopping. I don't think it's therefore unrealistic to think that I'm burning off 500 calories a day through strenuous exercise. I'm following Jillian Michaels body revolution 90 day programme and train 6 days a week for 30-40 minutes during that plus I often do an extra 30 minute cardio workout on top or cleaning for over an hour on other days when I don't do the extra cardio.
I logged cleaning as part of working out and added on the calories becauseI only normally have time to do it once a week as I'm too busy during the rest of the week so it's not part of my regular activity. I don't normally log things like cooking, and other daily activities which hardly raise my heart rate, only things which get it really high and believe me cleaning in my house does (I have 4 floors!)
I stand by my original statement. I suspect that you are overestimating your calorie burns per day. Ultimately it doesn't matter if you find a way of tracking intake that balances out (hence why some people only eat back half their calories or whatever.
I will say this: I weigh twice what you do, am over ten years younger and male. The ONLY way I can burn 500 calories in an hour of exercise is through vigorous cardio like running.0 -
When I figured out my numbers to do the TDEE -20% system I was worried about which activity level to choose - I ended up picking a number between the sedentary and lightly active since I am getting some exercise every week but it is not consistent. Before switching to the TDEE system I found it very hard to eat back my exercise calories on days that I played soccer, so for me spreading the calories over the other days (which is basically what TDEE system does) was much easier to plan for.0
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Hi eyeshuh
It's nice to hear from someone else who's having success using the method I'm trying. I've just actually gone back into the MFP settings and changed my activity level so that the reading is closer to my sedentary TDEE (based on lightly active as you've said) and then setting my calorie intake manually to be just above my BMR. I'm happy eating back exercise calories and feel they're pretty accurate but if I find I'm not losing by the end of this month I might change things again.
Yup, it's a lot of trial and error, but you'll get there! Don't be discouraged, stay netting above your BMR, and you'll start seeing results. 0 -
To the poster who says it's very hard to burn off 500 calories, do you use a heart rate monitor? The figures I'm going by are from my Polar HRM.
Yes that's a good point. Whether or not I'm burning off 500 calories in a day I think that some days it's quite hard to eat all the exercise calories back. Is there a way to log workouts on MFP and the calories burned but not have these numbers added on to your calorie goal? If so I could switch to this method instead but I still want to be able to see what I'm burning each day in exercise.0
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