Anorexia and gyms
Heather75
Posts: 3,386 Member
Hi all. Not sure where to post this, but there is a woman at my gym who appears to be suffering from anorexia nervosa.
Anyway, my question is, do you think the gym bears any responsibility to this woman? In other words, is the gym enabling her, and should someone on staff have a conversation with her?
I don't know that they haven't and I'm not judging anyone - just curious to know what your opinion is.
Anyway, my question is, do you think the gym bears any responsibility to this woman? In other words, is the gym enabling her, and should someone on staff have a conversation with her?
I don't know that they haven't and I'm not judging anyone - just curious to know what your opinion is.
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Replies
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I don't think the gym has any responsibility. Gyms are use at your own risk.0
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In my opinion, yes, a trainer for the gym should offer to measure her body fat. Especially is she is obviously under 100 pounds.0
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All gyms have anorexics. I don't know that they have a right to make that judgement call or interfere in any official way, although a friend at the gym could certainly express concern. Just like a bar cannot throw out an alcoholic for their own well-being. It has to become an instance of safety before anyone can step in.
It's sad, I know.0 -
Oh dear...that is a tricky one! I don't think it would be right to approach her regarding her weight and suspected disorder =/ Anorexia is mainly a dangerous relationship with food and no-one from the gym could help her in that area.
I'm afraid to say that if she was removed from the gym...she would find all possible means to continue exercising...maybe in the privacy of her own home where someone could not keep an eye on her...it is a catch 22 but I cannot see how intervening would benefit her...0 -
The gym is only responsible for the safety of the patrons while they are in the gym using the facilities. Just like a grocery store isn't responsible for someone with health problems who shouldn't eat bad food, the gym isn't responsible for the decisions someone has made within their life. The gym is offering a service, that's it. That's from a Business legality standpoint. I know it's hard to see someone like that. I think the most we can do is hope and pray that there is someone in that person's inner circle helping her get some help.0
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Sadly, I have to agree with khskr1.
There is an anorexic girl at my gym too. She runs on a treadmill for what seems like hours. The first time I noticed her I was on the treadmill next to her and her time read out said she'd been going for almost 2 hours.
It's so sad.0 -
There not doctors so the most that they can do is to tell her she needs to see a doctor. I don't think they would hold any responsibility. They can't kick her out and I'm sure their not going to close their business because of her either. We all want to help our fellow man but some things are out of our control and we have to watch our boundrys. The world isn't how it used to be' You used to to able just to help someone now if you do and something wrong happens you are the responsible so people shy away.0
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All gyms have anorexics. I don't know that they have a right to make that judgement call or interfere in any official way, although a friend at the gym could certainly express concern. Just like a bar cannot throw out an alcoholic for their own well-being. It has to become an instance of safety before anyone can step in.
It's sad, I know.
Actually, a bar/restaurant owner, manager, or even waitress can kick someone out of the bar if they have had too much to drink and in some states, the server is liable for any crime or damage the drinker may do after they leave that establishment. This is not a preventative act of course, throwing a known abuser out before they've had a drink, but it still puts some responsibility on the establishment.
As for the original question, I'm sure all gyms have customers sign a waiver of liability. There might be a loop-hole I suppose if she were a guest or if it were a YMCA or other public gym? Maybe you could talk to a friend that works out with her or a trainer or maybe you could find some counseling resources in your area and give her their information and just say "I'm concerned for your health." It's tricky. I have definitely seen it and I think many people on MFP are walking that fine line with "exercising to burn off ____ " as a punishment or for a reward, instead of just incorporating exercise and good diet into their everyday life- always just looking at numbers can be very dangerous and jading.0 -
It's tricky. I have definitely seen it and I think many people on MFP are walking that fine line with "exercising to burn off ____ " as a punishment or for a reward, instead of just incorporating exercise and good diet into their everyday life- always just looking at numbers can be very dangerous and jading.
The people on MFP all have eating issues... clearly. Or we wouldn't all be struggling with our weight.
As to the original post;
Unfortunately it is no one's business what she does or doesn't do. The gym is not responsible for her eating habits and definitely not responsible for her working out habits. The only people who have any right to speak to her about her apparently alarming habits are those who are close to her personally.0 -
Interesting. Thank you all for your replies.0
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All gyms have anorexics. I don't know that they have a right to make that judgement call or interfere in any official way, although a friend at the gym could certainly express concern. Just like a bar cannot throw out an alcoholic for their own well-being. It has to become an instance of safety before anyone can step in.
It's sad, I know.
Actually, a bar/restaurant owner, manager, or even waitress can kick someone out of the bar if they have had too much to drink and in some states, the server is liable for any crime or damage the drinker may do after they leave that establishment. This is not a preventative act of course, throwing a known abuser out before they've had a drink, but it still puts some responsibility on the establishment.
As for the original question, I'm sure all gyms have customers sign a waiver of liability. There might be a loop-hole I suppose if she were a guest or if it were a YMCA or other public gym? Maybe you could talk to a friend that works out with her or a trainer or maybe you could find some counseling resources in your area and give her their information and just say "I'm concerned for your health." It's tricky. I have definitely seen it and I think many people on MFP are walking that fine line with "exercising to burn off ____ " as a punishment or for a reward, instead of just incorporating exercise and good diet into their everyday life- always just looking at numbers can be very dangerous and jading.
I think it was meant as you can't kick someone out just because you know they drink on a daily basis, rather than kicking them out because they've had too much alcohol on the day. It made sense to me anyway hehe
It's a particularly tricky situation anyway because all people need exercise for good health, even if underweight. Also, it's a very difficult thing to judge - sure, you might see someone working out for a long time and make that judgement (which may or may not be valid) but see a super skinny person and you can't really be sure... for example they could be a cancer survivor who has struggled to regain the weight or something like that.
I think gyms generally encourage more exercise than is healthy (I guess that is their job?). Back when I was doing 6-8 gym classes per day, unaware that there was such a thing as too much exercise (I was a gym junkie that just loved it so much) I oonly ever was congratulated... it wasn't until I had my first stress fracture that I realised.
It is a problem but no, unfortunately not their responsibility.0 -
I'm curious as to what makes you think she's anorexic. I have a friend who runs marathons, and consequently has almost no body fat on an already slim frame. In the winter time, she often trains on the treadmill at the gym. A twenty mile training run can take her 4 or more hours depending on what pace she's trying for.
The fact is, it takes a medical professional to diagnose anorexia....just as it takes one to diagnose hypothyroidism. Would you counsel an obese stranger about the dangers of overeating without knowing for certain that they didn't suffer from an illness that caused weight gain? Seeing someone at the gym or on the street and diagnosing their ills according to your standards of normal and then telling them your opinion is asking for hurt feelings at best (on both sides) or a punch in the nose at worst.
Tread carefully.0 -
I dunno... I don't think that someone who is truely anorexic would have the energy or strength to run for 2 hours, you know? They're generally very weak IME
Slim, possibly a bit underweight, yeah... You never know, she could be training for something. maybe start up a conversation one day next time you see her running for ages, ask if she just likes running, or if she's training for anything in particular.
But I think the term "anorexic" gets thrown around a lot and overused, just to describe very slim or underweight individuals. Just being skinny doesn't make someone anorexic, it's a brain thing. I had a friend who really was anorexic, she would hardly eat and really had the mental thing going on, yet she maintained a healthy-looking weight (which didn't help the anorexia and she saw no matter what she did she still stayed "fat"), but because of having next to NO fuel in her body, she could barely walk up a flight of stairs without needing to rest.
It's like gymnasts, are teeny tiny, but they're also super strong and really pack away the food because they train so hard, yet look very slim still.
But no, they gym shouldn't be intervening, its just not their place. Maybe if they're concerned they could take a similar approach to what I suggested, and have a trainer approach and ask if she is training for anything, and if s/he could be of any assistance suggesting some tips, which may then ascertain what the situation is.0 -
All gyms have anorexics. I don't know that they have a right to make that judgement call or interfere in any official way, although a friend at the gym could certainly express concern. Just like a bar cannot throw out an alcoholic for their own well-being. It has to become an instance of safety before anyone can step in.
It's sad, I know.
Please do not call them "anorexics". They are PEOPLE with anorexia nervosa.0 -
I went to lawschool and passed the bar in CO but I don't practice. Still, I thought about this when I saw a severely underweight girl on the stair-climber at the gym. I thought it would make a great question for a lawschool exam. I don't think there is any law that makes the gym criminally responsible, or even criminally negligent, but I think there could be a tort/civil claim by the victim's family, although, I don't know how such a claim would fare in court. It is an intriguing question! Of course the gym could prevent her from working out there and they are not responsible for what she continues to do elsewhere. It does not "fix" the problem, but it clears them of responsibility.0
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saw this when I googled the question: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1202636/Gym-let-join-I-anorexic-step-treadmill-killed-me.html
can't believe it's London, not the US!0 -
saw this when I googled the question: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1202636/Gym-let-join-I-anorexic-step-treadmill-killed-me.html
can't believe it's London, not the US!
Wow! Did you read the comments after the article? It's scary to think most people have no compassion for the mentally ill. Even the picture of her now looks too thin. At 4.5 stone (I think that's about 60 pounds) she looked like a walking skeleton.
Most gyms make you sign a health waiver when you join and some require a doctor's note stateing you are fit to exercise. I wonder if the small print allows them to ask for this again from current members...0 -
sounds like a job for INTERVENTION (the show)
I saw one of those with an exersise addict/annorexic ... was INSANE ...0 -
I have seen a few people that have exercise anorexia on Intervention. Only one completed treatment.
I hope people have compassion for what is clearly a mental illness, but they obviously resent a "blame the gym" mentality.
Maybe the gym should check weight or BMI before you are allowed to join but if it becomes dangerous after you have joined, what could they do?0 -
A lot of interesting responses.
Just to clarify, I did say that she appears to have anorexia - I'm not in a position to diagnose anyone. I can barely tell the difference between a cold and the flu!
I also haven't given any opinion on this, nor have I suggested a course of action. I just thought it was an interesting topic to discuss.
I also think it's interesting to think about the difference between legal responsibility and moral responsibility.
Anyway, thanks to everyone who responded.0 -
Here's a thought, she could be dealing cancer or any other illness. At our fitness center we have a group for cancer survivors and many are very underweight having dealt with chemo and other treatments. They do come and have groups and workout in the facility, I sure hope noone would ever go up to one of those group members and ask if they are anorexic. That would be alittle ackward and quite inappropriate.A lot of interesting responses.
Just to clarify, I did say that she appears to have anorexia - I'm not in a position to diagnose anyone. I can barely tell the difference between a cold and the flu!
There can be many reasons ppl are underweight and still working out, some ppl have trouble keeping their weight up but still want to maintain good healthy with excercise. Some of us over eat/binge but don't over excercise/purge and at least I've never been approached at the gym and had anyone mention to me I'm overweight, so I doubt I'll be (Ok, I'm sure of it..lol) the one going up to someone asking if they might have over excercised or need to eat more.
Sometimes ppl decide heavy ppl are lazy and simply eat too much, sometimes that may be the case, but not always, many factors could be at play.
Sorta the flip side of the coin, same coin, reverse side.
Becca
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Touchy subject. I can't imagine the gym being responsible in any way nor should they intervine. I was anorexic at one point in my life and I can tell you from experience that the sufferer is not in a healthy state of mind. In my case, it was an attempt to gain control of my life after a traumatic experience. If anyone confronted me about it I became instantly defensive and scared that I was going to be forced to eat. As a result, I'd be even more rigid in my diet. Usually, someone with anorexia will have a safe food that they allow themselves to eat. Mine was milk. After a confrontation, I would usually not allow myself any milk, which left me with only water and gum, until I felt safe again. So a confrontation can be kind of dangerous. Sadly, the sufferer has to make a conscious decision to change and that usually only comes from within, not from someone talking to them. My turning point was when after months of not eating, I had a small bowl of cereal. It was my favorite and my mom kept it in the house to intice me to eat. I felt so guilty about eating it that after 20 minutes of failed attempts to throw up, I finally downed some ipecac syrup. I swore I would never do that to myself again but a couple months later I gave in to food again and I found that bottle again. I knew then that there was something seriously wrong with me and I talked to my mom and she got me some help. Getting someone to see there is something wrong with them is not an easy thing to do.0
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Your post speaks volumes and I'm glad you shared it. Also I'm glad you're in a better spot in life now:drinker: :flowerforyou:Touchy subject. I can't imagine the gym being responsible in any way nor should they intervine. I was anorexic at one point in my life and I can tell you from experience that the sufferer is not in a healthy state of mind. In my case, it was an attempt to gain control of my life after a traumatic experience. If anyone confronted me about it I became instantly defensive and scared that I was going to be forced to eat. As a result, I'd be even more rigid in my diet. Usually, someone with anorexia will have a safe food that they allow themselves to eat. Mine was milk. After a confrontation, I would usually not allow myself any milk, which left me with only water and gum, until I felt safe again. So a confrontation can be kind of dangerous. Sadly, the sufferer has to make a conscious decision to change and that usually only comes from within, not from someone talking to them. My turning point was when after months of not eating, I had a small bowl of cereal. It was my favorite and my mom kept it in the house to intice me to eat. I felt so guilty about eating it that after 20 minutes of failed attempts to throw up, I finally downed some ipecac syrup. I swore I would never do that to myself again but a couple months later I gave in to food again and I found that bottle again. I knew then that there was something seriously wrong with me and I talked to my mom and she got me some help. Getting someone to see there is something wrong with them is not an easy thing to do.0 -
Sorry, but I don't agree with most of you and this is why. An anorexic is a mentally ill person. Giving them a gym membership is like giving an already drunk person more alcohol which could kill them.
A gym has a moral and most likely a legal responsibility to not accept someone who is so mentally ill. Anorexia is a mental illness. They are starving themselves to death because mentally, they don't see themselves realistically or take realistic action to help themselves.
I think any gym accepting a membership from an anorexic is bad money and irresponsible. Plus, having an anorexic at a gym is terribly disturbing and bad business as it affects other members to have to watch her continually harming herself. If I were the parent of the anorexic, especially if I'd asked them not to accept her (or him) they would probably would have a good legal case against the gym,0 -
Hi all. Not sure where to post this, but there is a woman at my gym who appears to be suffering from anorexia nervosa.
Anyway, my question is, do you think the gym bears any responsibility to this woman? In other words, is the gym enabling her, and should someone on staff have a conversation with her?
I don't know that they haven't and I'm not judging anyone - just curious to know what your opinion is.
no they don't owe her anything. she's an adult and should be more responsible for herself.
are we gonna start blaming stores for selling cigarettes to people who are addicted?
or get mad at gym owners who let steroid users workout, because we're encouraging their drug use?0 -
Hi all. Not sure where to post this, but there is a woman at my gym who appears to be suffering from anorexia nervosa.
Anyway, my question is, do you think the gym bears any responsibility to this woman? In other words, is the gym enabling her, and should someone on staff have a conversation with her?
I don't know that they haven't and I'm not judging anyone - just curious to know what your opinion is.
Should a fast food restaurant have any compassion for their obese patrons?0 -
Sorry, but I don't agree with most of you and this is why. An anorexic is a mentally ill person. Giving them a gym membership is like giving an already drunk person more alcohol which could kill them.
A gym has a moral and most likely a legal responsibility to not accept someone who is so mentally ill. Anorexia is a mental illness. They are starving themselves to death because mentally, they don't see themselves realistically or take realistic action to help themselves.
I think any gym accepting a membership from an anorexic is bad money and irresponsible. Plus, having an anorexic at a gym is terribly disturbing and bad business as it affects other members to have to watch her continually harming herself. If I were the parent of the anorexic, especially if I'd asked them not to accept her (or him) they would probably would have a good legal case against the gym,
But you can't just judge an anorexic from image.
It's a mental disorder. Just like you might not know someone is suffering with depression or anxiety, you can't really know if someone has an ED.
Bulimia purging often can constitute over exercising, but may not reflect in their weight as much, since calories are still always being ingested (and sometimes many from binges). How would you know they have an ED?
Similarly, someone may be incredibly thin, even gaunt--they could be suffering from hyperthyroidism, hell, even cancer, wasting disease, etc., but be advised to work out, strength train, etc. As someone else pointed out--as someone who battled anorexia for nearly a decade, I barely had energy to do crunches, let alone 2 hours of running. I think something more might be at play here (and let's not forget how many MFPers think the low end of a BMI is "too thin").
Do you want health screenings or even MENTAL health screenings before being admitted into a gym? That gets scarier than letting someone with an ED work in the gym. If there's no doctor present, no one can make the call.0 -
<--- spent 5 years suffering from bulimia with an exercise addiction. Now a certified ED counselor
Disordered eating issues affect pretty much everyone. We have been trained to think food=reward or good times. We come together as a family at meals, we meet our friends for drinks and dinner, we treat ourselves with calorie splurges. Food in our culture of plenty has become a problem.
As for the exerciser, you don't know so don't assume. Like one poster said, she could have cancer, she could be sick, she could be recovering from something. Or she could have anoxeria (average statistic is 1 in 200 women). But if she does suffer from an ED, then what right is it of ours to say or do something? Forced treatment doesnt work. Why would the gym kick her out? No one knew about my disorder as I maintained what looked like the low end of healthy (110 and 5'5'). How would you ban those using the gym for what we term unhealthy reasons?0
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