Hypothyroid... Are you SURE I'm not a snowflake?

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Replies

  • sunnydude
    sunnydude Posts: 3 Member
    I have the same issue, however my thyroid tests are ALWAYS withing the normal range eventhough I have all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I do things on the assumption that I have a thyroid issue under a doctors supervision as I have blood work done every 3 months to make sure that it stays within the normal range. Myself and my doctor believe that I do have thyroid issues and if my test results change the next time she will be sending me to a endocrinologist since I do indeed have all the symptoms of hypothyroidism but my test result show within the normal range....
  • Doctorpurple
    Doctorpurple Posts: 507 Member
    I've been meaning to make an appointment to get my levels checked, but I am not ready to hand over my body to the pharmacy just yet.

    To those who think that the condition can not be treated any other way and is utterly irriversible, here is just one blip I've read. The sources of info are endless that suggest self care can be effective.



    "We often see hypothyroid symptoms totally reversed when a woman commits to an alternative hypothyroidism treatment program that supports balance through nutrition and daily self-care, including but not limited to the following guidelines:

    Consume foods naturally high in B vitamins, such as whole grains, nuts, and seeds, and iodine (fish, seaweed, vegetables and root vegetables).

    Exercise daily, at least 30–60 minutes per day, 4–5 times a week.

    Practice deep breathing and other techniques that trigger the “relaxation response,” such as meditation and guided visualization.

    Get adequate sun exposure if you live in a northern clime (15–20 minutes twice a day of unprotected sun in early morning and late afternoon between April and October) to maintain vitamin D levels, which support healthy immune function and calcium metabolism. Discuss supplementation during the winter months with your practitioner.

    Zero in on unresolved emotional issues as a source of stress. In naturopathic medicine, the thyroid reflects a woman’s voice in her life. Many women have experienced a “trapped voice,” and by the time perimenopause arrives the accumulated effect gives rise to symptoms, including poor thyroid function. Over and over we have seen that when women make progress in using their voices, their thyroid symptoms subside.

    Consider other alternative techniques that have been useful in correcting an underactive or low thyroid, such as acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine, naturopathic medicine, homeopathic medicine, biofeedback, and osteopathy.
    In our experience a multi-tiered hypothyroid treatment approach that deals directly with the nutritional, stress-related and emotional factors of hypothyroidism — in combination with alternative therapies — often restores a woman’s thyroid function completely."

    http://www.womentowomen.com/hypothyroidism/alternativetreatments.aspx

    I'm sorry but this is just an unreliable resource. This article solely based on an opinion of a Nurse practitioner. No clinical trials or non biased studies were done to confirm any of the above statements. I know you know this but the internet contains a bunch of bull information. You need to find a resource that is peer-reviewed non-biased and based on some solid clinical indisputable knowledge about thyroid disorders before you make medical decisions about your health. In addition, the above statements are for hypothyroid symptoms not really for clinical hypothyroidism.
  • misslibbyh
    misslibbyh Posts: 90 Member
    I've been meaning to make an appointment to get my levels checked, but I am not ready to hand over my body to the pharmacy just yet.

    To those who think that the condition can not be treated any other way and is utterly irriversible, here is just one blip I've read. The sources of info are endless that suggest self care can be effective.



    "We often see hypothyroid symptoms totally reversed when a woman commits to an alternative hypothyroidism treatment program that supports balance through nutrition and daily self-care, including but not limited to the following guidelines:

    Consume foods naturally high in B vitamins, such as whole grains, nuts, and seeds, and iodine (fish, seaweed, vegetables and root vegetables).

    Exercise daily, at least 30–60 minutes per day, 4–5 times a week.

    Practice deep breathing and other techniques that trigger the “relaxation response,” such as meditation and guided visualization.

    Get adequate sun exposure if you live in a northern clime (15–20 minutes twice a day of unprotected sun in early morning and late afternoon between April and October) to maintain vitamin D levels, which support healthy immune function and calcium metabolism. Discuss supplementation during the winter months with your practitioner.

    Zero in on unresolved emotional issues as a source of stress. In naturopathic medicine, the thyroid reflects a woman’s voice in her life. Many women have experienced a “trapped voice,” and by the time perimenopause arrives the accumulated effect gives rise to symptoms, including poor thyroid function. Over and over we have seen that when women make progress in using their voices, their thyroid symptoms subside.

    Consider other alternative techniques that have been useful in correcting an underactive or low thyroid, such as acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine, naturopathic medicine, homeopathic medicine, biofeedback, and osteopathy.
    In our experience a multi-tiered hypothyroid treatment approach that deals directly with the nutritional, stress-related and emotional factors of hypothyroidism — in combination with alternative therapies — often restores a woman’s thyroid function completely."

    http://www.womentowomen.com/hypothyroidism/alternativetreatments.aspx

    I'm sorry but this is just an unreliable resource. This article solely based on an opinion of a Nurse practitioner. No clinical trials or non biased studies were done to confirm any of the above statements. I know you know this but the internet contains a bunch of bull information. You need to find a resource that is peer-reviewed non-biased and based on some solid clinical indisputable knowledge about thyroid disorders before you make medical decisions about your health. In addition, the above statements are for hypothyroid symptoms not really for clinical hypothyroidism.

    Ha ha! EVERYTHING is disputable. The decisions about my health are mine to make. I've read seen, heard and talked to doctors enough to make my own decision about taking the medication. I am an adult and we as adults make decisions about our health every single day without ANY "indisputable knowledge"... there is no such thing. This thread was about calculating calories for hypothyroid condition. I suspected that the numbers I got back would not be accurate for me because I am indeed... a special snowflake. =) Thank you for your input.
  • WBB55
    WBB55 Posts: 4,131 Member
    I mean this in absolutely the most supportive way possible: Unfortunately, you probably aren't fixing/treating your hypothyroid by following the advice in the article. If you follow the advice of the article, you are minimizing some of the side effects/symptoms of low thyroid. You're most likely are not fixing the malfunction it in any way. If you find relief from the symptoms thru meditation and deep breathing, I think that's great. But you're fixing nothing and needlessly suffering.

    But for anyone else with symptoms of low thyroid, talk to your doctor. By working with your doctor you can eliminate all the symptoms of low thyroid hormone. You don't have to suffer the way the OP is. To everyone else, please, take charge of your own health by treating this potentially debilitating lifelong condition with proven, effective therapies. Lots of women you already know successfully treat this condition every day thru targeted replacement therapy.

    Good luck to you OP with you health journey. Please keep talking to others with this condition to learn about their experiences, since lots of people share this condition, and keep checking in with your doctor to get your levels checked.
  • wilson1134
    wilson1134 Posts: 32 Member
    Back to the original topic for a moment, does anyone have any research/knowledge on an adjusted TDEE for someone with no thyroid and/or hypo that is in 'normal' range?
  • Craigamears
    Craigamears Posts: 65 Member
    I'm sorry to say this but discontinuing your medications was a wrong move. I'm a medical student (not a doctor yet) and I really think that your hypothyroidism cannot be cured by diet and exercise alone. Its not the same as with Type II diabetes or hypertension that you skip the meds and replace with healthy lifestyle. Do you know what caused your hypothyroidism? Is it an autoimmune disease? If you are not feeling any improvement with medications, the solution is not stop taking them altogether. The solution is to explore other types of medications that can possibly make it better. I wonder if you consulted with your doctor before deciding to just stop taking drugs altogether. Low carb diets would not work for hypothyroid people. That doesn't even make sense. You are already low on energy and low carb diets has the potential to slow metabolism even more. You are just doing yourself more harm than good.

    As for your daily caloric intake to lose weight. Yes you would need less calories to lose weight than MFP is saying because those numbers are for synthyroid people. Again, I would really like to know how you become hypothyroid (the cause). I think I will give a more specific advice with that info

    I have to disagree a bit with Dr. Purple that low carb diets have the potential to slow metabolism. Not sure why that would be so. Lower carbs reduce insulin spiking but I don't see that slowing metabolism. There have been studies where ketogenic diets have been used for treating thyroid diseases like Hashimoto's disease. Not prescribing a diet here but shifting some of your existing calories from carbs to good fat sources and keeping within your calories may be something to try. But I am not a doc and don't play one on TV.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Back to the original topic for a moment, does anyone have any research/knowledge on an adjusted TDEE for someone with no thyroid and/or hypo that is in 'normal' range?

    I have never heard of one...possibly as the impact is different on different people...or possible I have just not stumbled across one. The TDEE calculators use populations as a basis for the inputs (so they can be off for anyone not within that populations's parameters anyway).
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,393 Member
    I've been meaning to make an appointment to get my levels checked, but I am not ready to hand over my body to the pharmacy just yet.

    To those who think that the condition can not be treated any other way and is utterly irriversible, here is just one blip I've read. The sources of info are endless that suggest self care can be effective.



    "We often see hypothyroid symptoms totally reversed when a woman commits to an alternative hypothyroidism treatment program that supports balance through nutrition and daily self-care, including but not limited to the following guidelines:

    Consume foods naturally high in B vitamins, such as whole grains, nuts, and seeds, and iodine (fish, seaweed, vegetables and root vegetables).

    Exercise daily, at least 30–60 minutes per day, 4–5 times a week.

    Practice deep breathing and other techniques that trigger the “relaxation response,” such as meditation and guided visualization.

    Get adequate sun exposure if you live in a northern clime (15–20 minutes twice a day of unprotected sun in early morning and late afternoon between April and October) to maintain vitamin D levels, which support healthy immune function and calcium metabolism. Discuss supplementation during the winter months with your practitioner.

    Zero in on unresolved emotional issues as a source of stress. In naturopathic medicine, the thyroid reflects a woman’s voice in her life. Many women have experienced a “trapped voice,” and by the time perimenopause arrives the accumulated effect gives rise to symptoms, including poor thyroid function. Over and over we have seen that when women make progress in using their voices, their thyroid symptoms subside.

    Consider other alternative techniques that have been useful in correcting an underactive or low thyroid, such as acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine, naturopathic medicine, homeopathic medicine, biofeedback, and osteopathy.
    In our experience a multi-tiered hypothyroid treatment approach that deals directly with the nutritional, stress-related and emotional factors of hypothyroidism — in combination with alternative therapies — often restores a woman’s thyroid function completely."

    http://www.womentowomen.com/hypothyroidism/alternativetreatments.aspx

    This is one of the most ridiculous and dangerous things I've read on here in a while.

    I've been on thyroid replacement therapy for 25 years. Pretty sure I've read more than you have about this.

    Good luck with your ill-advised "self-treatment" program. Not wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise, I just wanted to say how wrong this article is. Listen to a doctor, not teh interwebz..although, you've gotten good sound advice in this thread. A $30 blood test and $10 a month for a pill is worth it to prevent the type of self-destruction you are going to find yourself facing.

    .
  • wilson1134
    wilson1134 Posts: 32 Member
    Thanks! The closest I have found is that a hypo individual is potentially working with a 20-40% decrease in metabolism. That's a large range but at least confirms that it's a decrease.

    I do not believe that 'in range' people with no thyroid can function the same on a normal TDEE. Since medicine is now the means of production, we do not have the gland to adjust our levels. Therefore, we are working in a tighter scale. Just thought maybe someone in this world has done some sort of research to see where that scale lies now. :) so far this study doesn't exist!!

    example: if meds only necessitates a 20% reduction in calories for TDEE.---2,000 cal for example for one to maintain this person would need 1600 only. Thus a calorie deficit can only happen at a reduction from 1600.

    I know we are all different based on our activity levels, weight, heights, etc. I just want my formula. :)
  • Doctorpurple
    Doctorpurple Posts: 507 Member
    I'm sorry to say this but discontinuing your medications was a wrong move. I'm a medical student (not a doctor yet) and I really think that your hypothyroidism cannot be cured by diet and exercise alone. Its not the same as with Type II diabetes or hypertension that you skip the meds and replace with healthy lifestyle. Do you know what caused your hypothyroidism? Is it an autoimmune disease? If you are not feeling any improvement with medications, the solution is not stop taking them altogether. The solution is to explore other types of medications that can possibly make it better. I wonder if you consulted with your doctor before deciding to just stop taking drugs altogether. Low carb diets would not work for hypothyroid people. That doesn't even make sense. You are already low on energy and low carb diets has the potential to slow metabolism even more. You are just doing yourself more harm than good.

    As for your daily caloric intake to lose weight. Yes you would need less calories to lose weight than MFP is saying because those numbers are for synthyroid people. Again, I would really like to know how you become hypothyroid (the cause). I think I will give a more specific advice with that info

    I have to disagree a bit with Dr. Purple that low carb diets have the potential to slow metabolism. Not sure why that would be so. Lower carbs reduce insulin spiking but I don't see that slowing metabolism. There have been studies where ketogenic diets have been used for treating thyroid diseases like Hashimoto's disease. Not prescribing a diet here but shifting some of your existing calories from carbs to good fat sources and keeping within your calories may be something to try. But I am not a doc and don't play one on TV.

    I'm not sure why this is not common knowledge but ketosis is not the ideal way that a body functions. When you eat low carbohydrate diets, your body is forced to convert glycogen to glucose (glycogenolysis) in order to have a source of energy. This is as opposed to just using glucose from the diet to perform regular aerobic metabolism (glycolysis+ TCA cycle+ electron transport chain). This process happens until someone rans out of glycogen. When you body runs of out glycogen which happens in a about 24-48 hours of no carbs. You start breaking down your muscle and fat (ketosis) in order to feed your brain. Since the brain only uses glucose or ketones (less preferred) for energy. The process of ketosis is so much slower than regular metabolism that people on low carb diet feel weak, with compromised brain function and slower metabolism. There are multiple studies done that ketogenic diet lowers down T3 levels. A simple google search can help you educate yourself on this topic.

    Lower carbs reduce insulin spiking and you're right that it has nothing do do with thyroid disease.

    The OP: I stand corrected, there are no such thing is indisputable knowledge. Although you pretty much nit-picked my advice to find something wrong. You are an adult and you do make your own decisions about your health which is why you stick with your belief even when a sound advice is given. What I meant is for you to search for source that again is peer-reviewed, reliable, based on some clinical trial and not just an opinion of some random person on a the internet.
  • misslibbyh
    misslibbyh Posts: 90 Member
    Thanks! The closest I have found is that a hypo individual is potentially working with a 20-40% decrease in metabolism. That's a large range but at least confirms that it's a decrease.

    I do not believe that 'in range' people with no thyroid can function the same on a normal TDEE. Since medicine is now the means of production, we do not have the gland to adjust our levels. Therefore, we are working in a tighter scale. Just thought maybe someone in this world has done some sort of research to see where that scale lies now. :) so far this study doesn't exist!!

    example: if meds only necessitates a 20% reduction in calories for TDEE.---2,000 cal for example for one to maintain this person would need 1600 only. Thus a calorie deficit can only happen at a reduction from 1600.

    I know we are all different based on our activity levels, weight, heights, etc. I just want my formula. :)

    Thank you for staying on topic. So i calculated my TDEE to be 2618 according to normal calculations. Minus 20% it would be 2095. The recommendation was to set a goal for minus 20 or 30%. Funny thing... They said my BMR was 1470... 2095 minus 30% is 1467... I currently have my caloric goal set to my supposed BMR which is 1470... so this should actually be close to my real TDEE minus 30% if the calculations you suggest are correct? I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

    Am I mathing right? lol


    I would really appreciate it if people would stay on topic here. I am not asking for medical advice... I am asking for dietary advice based on my current situation. If my dr. thought my life is in danger I would still be on them but thank you for your concern.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,393 Member

    I would really appreciate it if people would stay on topic here. I am not asking for medical advice... I am asking for dietary advice based on my current situation. If my dr. thought my life is in danger I would still be on them but thank you for your concern.

    You are an untreated hypothyroid patient who went off meds AMA. This isn't a disease that is self treatable. No one can give you any idea what your calorie needs are. Pick a number and stick to it. If it doesn't work, pick another number. It's a wild guess in your situation.

    YOU took this off-topic with the "find your voice, heal your thyroid" article. There are a lot of smart people here, they aren't going to leave things unchallenged that are so blatantly wrong. Any time you post in these or any forums, anyone is free to post what they like. Be glad there aren't any cat gifs......yet.
  • misslibbyh
    misslibbyh Posts: 90 Member

    I would really appreciate it if people would stay on topic here. I am not asking for medical advice... I am asking for dietary advice based on my current situation. If my dr. thought my life is in danger I would still be on them but thank you for your concern.

    You are an untreated hypothyroid patient who went off meds AMA. This isn't a disease that is self treatable. No one can give you any idea what your calorie needs are. Pick a number and stick to it. If it doesn't work, pick another number. It's a wild guess in your situation.

    YOU took this off-topic with the "find your voice, heal your thyroid" article. There are a lot of smart people here, they aren't going to leave things unchallenged that are so blatantly wrong. Any time you post in these or any forums, anyone is free to post what they like. Be glad there aren't any cat gifs......yet.

    Count the attacks on me about me taking my meds before that post. I rest my case. I am not going to sit here and defend myself on the internet about it. A few people have been helpful about the TDEE thing... those are the only posts that I will reply to any further. I don't think it should be a wild guess... Someone out there knows more than you do about it I'm sure. And i LOVE cat gifs! lol

    If my dr. thought my life is in danger... I would be on the meds. I'm done talking about that. =)

    I'm currently taking in calories at my calculated BMR. We will see what happens. =)
  • WBB55
    WBB55 Posts: 4,131 Member
    For those of you who are interested, the reason there is only anecdotal evidence/case studies of the metabolic effects of untreated hypothyroid is because, unfortunately, scientific studies on the effects of low thyroid would probably involve purposefully stopping people from taking necessary medication. Therefore such studies would potentially be unethical. Kind of like trying to do a scientific, peer reviewed study on the effects to a fetus of the mother smoking while pregnant. Creating a proper study like that would raise ethical questions, since you can't create the proper control groups and force people to harm themselves for the sake of a scientific study.

    Doctors/clinicians can run tests to find YOUR true BMR and TDEE. Unfortunately for you, trial and error is the only way to find out, unless you want to pay for a metabolism test.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,393 Member
    Doctors/clinicians can run tests to find YOUR true BMR and TDEE. Unfortunately for you, trial and error is the only way to find out, unless you want to pay for a metabolism test.

    Exactly. And really, this is true for anyone. If I went by the internet calculators, I'd be eating 1400 calories to lose weight. As it turns out, I need to eat around 1800. The calculators you find online are subjective - meaning they rely on the user to input data that is subjective. For instance, this site asks you to choose a weight-loss Goal. You can choose anything from 1/2 pound per week, to two pounds per week. We are responsible for choosing a safe, healthy rate of weight loss. A lot of people don't know what that should be, depending on their age, height, gender, weight, and goal weight. So they enter too-aggressive of a goal which can stall weight loss by undereating.

    The other problem with online calculators is the Activity Level. They all ask it - but in different ways. Some want you to figure in your job, some want you to figure in exercise, this site wants both. This information is also subjective. Your "lightly active" might be my "moderately active." There are so many variables that the only way for any of us to figure out what we should be eating is by trial and error. Apparently the OP thinks we can magically discern her calorie intake. Add to that the fact that she has a metabolic/endocrine disorder that she has decided not to treat.

    But, someone knows better than us.