question for the engineers in the crowd-non fitness related

cardbucfan · February 2013

Hey engineers (hope there are some of you out there!),

I have a question for you. My high school senior wants to be an engineer (mechanical and aerospace) and is in the final stages of selecting a college. He was accepted to University of Florida which is ranked 26 for mechanical on the graduate ranking list we have seen. He was deferred by Ga Tech but will hear from them on March 9 and is fairly confident he will get in. Ga Tech is Ga Tech-nuff said. Before he heard from UF I told him we needed to go visit a couple of the schools he had been accepted to that had offered him money so we went to a few of those last week.

We BOTH fell in love with University of Alabama. Besides the warm hospitality and beautiful campus, they are offering him full tuition, the honors college (which has lots of benefits with it), space in the athletes/engineering dorm (bigger beds and better food) and opportunities for undergraduate research. They've also just spent TONS of money on their engineering facilities and underclassmen get to use these things.

UF was our first college visit so we didn't know at that point what we didn't know or really what questions to ask. We definitely need to go back and make another visit to really check out their co-op program and see their facilities but that can't happen for awhile due to school commitments.

Now our dilemma (and you probably know where I'm going by now). The cost to attend UA and UF would be comparable. UA is offering full tuition and we have a Florida prepaid insurance plan which would cover the tuition at UF. He is eligible for another scholarship in Florida that would cover $3000 of housing/books, etc. We would be able to cash in his prepaid plan and apply that to housing at UA so really-it's pretty much the same price. Ga Tech is substantially more expensive (out of state, no scholarship money). So that's the cost factor. Then there is the reputation/ranking of each school. Ga Tech is number 6, UF is 26 and UA is 101! Quite a difference.

So. How important are rankings when it comes time to get a job? How much does it affect companies coming to recruit or do co-ops? Is Ga Tech's substantially more expensive tuition worth it in the end? Will he earn that much more money to make it cost effective?

My husband and I are polar opposites on this. He is a total bottom line guy and thinks it makes way more sense to go to UF (even though the school is HUGE, he might not get the honors college there and he'd have to take some on-line classes because it's hard to get all your classes and he'd have to live in one of the old-style traditional dorm rooms) rather than go to a school with a lesser reputation or spend that much more money. I think we need to look at the overall experience and that a happy kid who is excited will be motivated to do more and work harder.

Any thoughts, opinions, personal experience would be greatly appreciated!

SeaRunner26 · February 2013

Engineer here. So, speaking as a man of logic and math, always go for the best value. That does not mean the cheapest. It means the most gained for the amount spent (the biggest bang for your buck).

cardbucfan · February 2013

O.K., I get that (I'm an accountant) but what should be valued the most? Ranking and reputation of school? How he performs in school will be affected by where he goes (Tech is known to have professors who are more interested in their research than teaching and incredible competition, UF is known for having monster size classes that are taught by TA's and they make Chem 1 and Calc 1 true weed-out classes) but if he performs really well will that overcome a perceived lower ranking? How much MORE value is there in a degree from Ga Tech?

SeaRunner26 · February 2013

That depends on who is potentially hiring and how important prestige is to them.

dansls1 · February 2013

Getting and keeping a job is about work ethic and people skills. School means very little in the real world, from what I have seen.

ahviendha · February 2013

it seems like you're over thinking it. what does your son want? did he go to one of those schools and just get a "feeling" that it was the right one for him?

depends on your sons personality, but sometimes all the logic in the world can't convince someone to do something when their heart says something else.

justmyalias · February 2013

I graduated with a Masters from GA Tech. I think the people at GA Tech think way more of themselves than the real world. Maybe not accurate, but that is my take.

My son is in his senior year as well... he is all over the place and really no idea what he wants to do. Here's what I truly believe... it is not an end-all decision. He could start his 4 years in one place and always transfer at a later time. There's also graduate school...

misscristie · February 2013

Married to an engineer (network) who went to VA Tech and ended up dropping out. Never did get a degree. Succeeded on his on badassedness.

You might want to see if you can find some reviews on the programs at each school. I really don't think prestige amounts to a hill of beans when it comes to hiring time. (With the exception of like attending med school in the carribean or something)

Any student will be most successful if they go somewhere they enjoy and don't feel brow beaten every day by their profs. No one wants to sit through a class that begins every single day with "Look to your left and your right. At least 1 of you won't be here next semester."

Best of luck to your son. The world needs more great engineers

Dragonnade · February 2013

Nothing to add regarding engineering stuff. BUT I did go to a university without visiting it, kinda hated it and dropped out. Thankfully straight into another university which I loved.

The first university had the higher reputation but that's worth nothing as I hated it and dropped out.
Second university isn't really ranked in the UK as it's private BUT I walked out with a first in law because I loved it all so much and now I have a truly brilliant job.

If you hate it and the environment isn't conducive to work, it isn't worth all the reputation, scholarships and kittens in the world.

Pennapenguin · February 2013

Civil engineer here.......I might not be the best help, I went to a very small accredited school and live in a smaller size city and work for a very small family owned company.

How determined is he? Is he gung ho more about school or is he equally into school and the socializing aspect of things?

Just because 1 school is ranked higher than another does not mean he won't still learn or get the same education out of them.

From what you described, I would be going with Alabama.

GA Tech may be a high ranking school but it really sucks to have student loans when your starting your working career. I know!

dems11 · February 2013

It sounds like your son is a good student so I suspect he won't need the presumed status from attending a good school. The most important qualities for engineers are dilligence, knowledge, creativity, organization, and the ability to work well with others. Go for value, but encourage your son to expand his knowledge, to diversify his interests. I work in design engineering, went to school for electrical engineering at Iowa State University, and am now working as an electrical engineering technician. I had to quit school when I started having children, always intended to go back but never did, tho' I've been satisified with my current job. One final thing - the best engineers are those that have people skills as well as technical expertise.:happy:

mariapuhl · February 2013

If you hate it and the environment isn't conducive to work, it isn't worth all the reputation, scholarships and kittens in the world.

I agree with this statement - Money is a big factor, obviously - but also if you aren't going to like the place, you're going to end up being miserable, getting worse grades, or leaving the school (which could then be expensive, you might switch schools and not get the offer you originally had, etc.).

So it's VERY important that your SON like the school and feels like he could see himself there every day.

Also, if you're so focused on the rankings - remember that a ton of schools are tied. So while a school might be number 57, probably there's a number 1 school, then 2 - 10 are tied, then 11 - 15 tied for third... so the ranking might be a bit better. Or, a program might JUST be getting started or have done renovations, etc. so the program might not have the ranking it actually deserved.

Really as long as their actually ranked and have more than one professor in the department (my school has a film degree... with one professor.... sketchy.) - you're fine on the ranking thing.

LittleMissNerdy · February 2013

I agree with those who say what does your son want? He might go to the "better school" but if he ends up hating it and it then causes bad grades, does it really matter where he went?

CharMarieDavis · February 2013

I am an aerospace engineer and I went to University of Oklahoma. I don't think WHERE you went really matters. If you have a great GPA and good work ethic you should be able to find a job. At OU, they did very little to help with job recruiting but I still managed to find a very good job on my own. I ended up choosing the college where not only I could get a good education, but I could make a life. I am from Colorado and came to Oklahoma and I love it! So I would just tell him to listen to his heart on this one. The main point is getting a degree and enjoying college at the same time.

homeyjosey · February 2013

Engineer here. I would go with the best engineering school. I went with a cheaper school but one of the better ones in engineering (Cal Poly Pomona) and haven't had trouble finding jobs after graduating while some friends who graduated in engineering in a more expensive, not ranked as highly in engineering schools are/had a difficult time in obtaining a job.

frood · February 2013

I went to a top engineering school. It was worth the cost.

ninerbuff · February 2013

My BIL joined the Navy for the shortest term, got some hands on experience in the engineering field he wanted to pursue, got out, had the Navy pay for his college and now is a full time engineer for the DOD.

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cardbucfan · February 2013

My son loved Alabama. Loved, loved, loved it. I think it would be the best fit for him too. I think he's a little iffy on Ga Tech and even if he gets in, I'm not sure he wants to go there. UF has the exact double major he wants but I know he has concerns about how much access he would get to research/toys/co-ops/etc when he's competing with so many kids particularly all the grad students. I'm trying to gather as much info as I can to help him make an informed decision.

Thanks for the opinions and if there are any more-keep 'em coming!

krowanvil · February 2013

While GT is a well-respected school, for good reason, and may help get his foot in the door, the additional cost may not be worth it in the current financial environment/ job market. He will likely be better off in the long run going to UF or UA and not owing much after the fact than going to GT and having to pay it back for the next 5-10 years.
Option 4: (if GT is a must) Find out what classes/ how many credits will transfer from UF/UA to GT. Spend the first 1-2 years at UF/UA then transfer to GT. First 1-2 years are a low cost, which reduces the overall cost and your son gets to wear the GT logo in the end.

BusyRaeNOTBusty · February 2013

I graduated from a high ranking school. It really doesn't mean much in the real world.

Also, a Master's degree and a PE license will mean more than his bachelors. Go with the cheap one he likes. Make sure he gets good grades, does well on the GRE, and the EIT. Then he can hopefully get a funded Masters at a slightly better school.

LittleMissNerdy · February 2013

I graduated from a high ranking school. It really doesn't mean much in the real world.

Also, a Master's degree and a PE license will mean more than his bachelors. Go with the cheap one he likes. Make sure he gets good grades, does well on the GRE, and the EIT. Then he can hopefully get a funded Masters at a slightly better school.

This. I work for a company that hires engineers. When going through resumes I'm told to look for EIT on their resume. We also will pay for people to go back to school.

cardbucfan · February 2013

Busylady-are masters that important for engineers? (I guess anybody can answer this one!)

Greenrun99 · February 2013

So. How important are rankings when it comes time to get a job? How much does it affect companies coming to recruit or do co-ops? Is Ga Tech's substantially more expensive tuition worth it in the end? Will he earn that much more money to make it cost effective?

I would definitely push him towards Alabama, full tuition, no mounting debt when he gets out of school. As long as he gets a good gpa, doesn't spend more years in college then needed and knows his stuff he will be good. Your school you went to really only matters for that first job and that's if the people hiring even care about the school. Then after that its ALL about experience..
Interview skills, knowledge, experience.. those will get you the job over going to the higher ranked school.

shutupandlift13 · February 2013

Granted I'm a civil engineer who went into construction so its a little different industry....

But anyway, I went to a high ranking school with engineering being its main focus, but it was such a good deal, *cough* Missouri S&T *cough* (also has a stellar reputation with companies like Boeing, Anheuser Busch and General Motors, lots of MechE's and Aeros getting hired from our programs). I went to a cheap but well known school in the engineering world, kicked *kitten* on some amazing internships, ended up graduating with a less than spectacular GPA (2.9) and still had three job offers and am now making a salary that is on the top end for a civil engineer in tunneling and underground construction.

GPA/school rep aren't the deciding factors, my best recommendation is look into the career centers at each school. If the more reasonably priced school has a great career counseling center and he can land some good internships or co-ops then it will be just as good as the degree from the top ranking school.

And like Busylady said, a masters and a PE especially in mechanical engineering will make a huge impact on job opportunities. Even if his program doesn't require it, I HIGHLY recommend taking the FE so that he at least has his EIT if he wants to eventually get his PE. The FE success rate drops drastically after graduation.

coolraul07 · February 2013

Married to an engineer (network) who went to VA Tech and ended up dropping out. Never did get a degree. Succeeded on his on badassedness.

Wow! She's married to my (education) twin! I dropped out of VA Tech's Electrical Engineering program. Fortunately, I got a job in IT before IT become 'the next big thing' in career and have turned it into a successful 20 year (and counting) career (currently Enterprise Design Engineer).

You might want to see if you can find some reviews on the programs at each school. I really don't think prestige amounts to a hill of beans when it comes to hiring time. (With the exception of like attending med school in the carribean or something)
Any student will be most successful if they go somewhere they enjoy and don't feel brow beaten every day by their profs. No one wants to sit through a class that begins every single day with "Look to your left and your right. At least 1 of you won't be here next semester."
Best of luck to your son. The world needs more great engineers

Double wow! She said almost exactly what I was planning to say. Personal opinion/experience is that based on the schools on your short list, their 'ranking' will matter very little, if at all, in a prospective employer's mind. Besides, by the time your son graduates, the rankings may change drastically so I would put that at the low end of my criteria. Based on that logic, GT is 'out' for undergrad based on cost and it's down to UA and UF. If your son's "in love with" UA and they have smaller class sizes, it sounds like the decision is clear! His attitude will play as big a role, if not a bigger role, in his career success than his aptitude.
Good luck to you!

lsmsrbls · February 2013

Ranking is very important if he wants to go to grad school, especially if he wants to go to a prestigious grad school. If he doesn't want to go to grad school, then it's not as important, though it can affect starting salary and ease of getting a job across the country.

Personally, I think the most important thing at this point is that he goes where he thinks he will be happy for 4 years. If he's miserable, then in addition to having to spend 4 years being miserable (and who wants that?), he's also unlikely to excel as he could otherwise.

In high school, I expected to go to MIT or Georgia Tech, until I went around to visit the schools. I thought Georgia Tech looked miserable (the neighborhood, etc. -- however, my brother went to school there and it was a great fit for him), and I fell in love with Vanderbilt when I visited. Of course Vanderbilt is not known for its engineering schools, but it was still a great fit for me.

Now I work with engineers who went to Alabama, Auburn, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Florida....so some are from traditional engineering schools, some not, some schools are more prestigious than others....once you get a job, it really doesn't matter. And it looks a lot better to have a resume with a school on there that's maybe not tier but where you did awesome than to have a great name on there but have to explain why your GPA is bad or why you didn't have any relevant clubs, leadership, etc. or worse -- not to graduate at all.

And I know plenty of people who got great educations at Alabama. : )

rybo · February 2013

Chem Eng here.

I would choose UA or UF depending on which he liked best. I don't feel any school's ranking is worth paying the tuition when you have other schools he can attend far more cheaply. Not having loans when he graduates will FAR outweigh the miniscule chance he might get a better job because he went to a high ranking school.

deksgrl · February 2013

I'm not an engineer, but I work in a building full of engineers and scientists. School ranking does not factor into the hiring here, personal performance does. He should go where he wants to go, he will do better in a place he is happier.

DrMAvDPhD · February 2013

I've a mechanical engineer as a sister and another as a husband. I think you should be warned that a good graduate program doesn't always translate into a good undergraduate program. Here at the U of Michigan, we are a top 20 chemistry PhD program but the undergrad program here is a joke.

I think both my sister and husband would say that their REQUIRED 6 month/year co-op was the best and most useful part of their education. Do any of the programs offer a co-op/internship program?

TR0berts · February 2013

Another engineer here.

I'll give the 1004th recommendation to have your son decide which one he likes best. That said, I'd probably try to steer him towards Alabama, given the research possibilities.

Ultimately, every employer is different with what they're looking for. However, the college/university that has a co-op program (which many do, but not all) is the best, as it a) gets your foot in the door, and b) gives you actual experience in the field. Paper + Experience = Winning Combination to many/most employers.

eta: mavd was typing while I was, apparently.

BlueInkDot · February 2013

Engineer here (Civil/Structural)...

In the end, here's what it comes down to...

1. The people around you in school, your friends and classmates and professors... they all help to shape you. You want people around you who make you into a better person. Bottom line.

2. Having a degree is basically a piece of paper that says "Hey world, I am self-sufficient and capable and driven! I also know some things about science and math!" Then you go to the interview and that's when the important stuff comes out - Are you an *kitten*? Are you a good listener? How well can you explain your thoughts? How hard are you willing to work? What are your values? Do I like hanging out with you?? You want to go to a college that will not only give you a degree, but will help you develop your people skills and communication skills and not-being-a-jerk skills.

3. The prestige of a school isn't super duper important. If you get a degree from a school that has a well-known name, then it's like "hm! look at that, that's nice" but... it's not a huge deal. It's more important that they're a nice person who smiles a lot and is willing to do the work and asks good questions... all that good stuff.

4. If he gets a job from his degree, he'll be able to pay off his loans someday. If he has less to pay off total, cool, but as long as he gets a job related to the degree, he'll be fine.

IN CONCLUSION:

The most important thing here is to learn how to work with other people. Be respectful. Be a problem solver. Be a good listener. Speak well. Ask the right questions. In order to learn these things, he's gotta feel at home at the college and with the people there.

Take a normal job, for example, it's usually not the job that makes or breaks how good of a job is, it's the people you work with. Same with college.

Obviously he's gotta work hard and get good grades, but that's a lot easier to do when you're surrounded by people who you also feel comfortable with and can talk to.

question for the engineers in the crowd-non fitness related

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