HR zones for endurance training

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jacksonpt
jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I know HR zones don't matter for weight loss. But is there any merit to them for endurance training?

I've been doing triathlons for a few years now, but have never really "trained" for them. I practice my swim stroke/breathing enough so I don't drown, I ride because I enjoy it, and I run because I can't always ride. That's always been enough for me to be reasonably happy with my performance/time.

During a run today I got thinking about training in HR zones and whether or not it's effective for increase endurance/mileage. Personally I think putting in more miles increases mileage (just like going faster increases speed), but I don't have any real evidence to support it, just personal experience.

Thoughts?

Replies

  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    I like to keep it simple: easy, medium, hard. There is definitely a place for the ol' long, slow, distance endurance training when it comes to preparing for endurance events. This follows the fundamental principle of training specificity. Ideally, the proportions of training should match the metabolic demands of the event.

    Lyle McDonald explains it all in great detail:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-1.html

    He goes on for 6 or so articles and discusses the different general classes of intensity.

    In general, endurance training builds your "aerobic engine". Tempo and interval training allow you to apply that engine and fine-tune it for peak performance.

    I find that the two have a synergistic effect. By that I find that HIIT, or HISS not only improve performance, but allow me to train at a higher "endurance" intensity. Along with that, I find that my endurance training allows me to recover more quickly after work intervals and when I "reach back for something extra" during a HISS or performance workout, I find the energy to maintain my pace to the end.

    So, yes, they help.
  • SlimFrederic
    SlimFrederic Posts: 9
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    "I know HR zones don't matter for weight loss."


    Could you please develop?
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    My best advice: Don't take advice from people on public forums. instead, buy a few books written by professionals (athletes, coaches, sports physicians, etc), take what you want from each of them, and follow their programs. You'll get more sound advice from those than you ever will from a place like this.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    My best advice: Don't take advice from people on public forums. instead, buy a few books written by professionals (athletes, coaches, sports physicians, etc), take what you want from each of them, and follow their programs. You'll get more sound advice from those than you ever will from a place like this.
    Do you have any idea who Lyle McDonald is, what/how many books he's written and what his training resume is? Azdak's advice and link was some of the best advice the OP could have gotten.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    My best advice: Don't take advice from people on public forums. instead, buy a few books written by professionals (athletes, coaches, sports physicians, etc), take what you want from each of them, and follow their programs. You'll get more sound advice from those than you ever will from a place like this.

    So then what are forums good for? Would not bang, 9.8, just break up? He didn't ask a doctor question. Instead of randomly reading books, someone can point in the right direction and the OP is smart enough to perform his due diligence from there.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    My best advice: Don't take advice from people on public forums. instead, buy a few books written by professionals (athletes, coaches, sports physicians, etc), take what you want from each of them, and follow their programs. You'll get more sound advice from those than you ever will from a place like this.

    Well! That certainly puts me in MY place.....
  • kenlad64
    kenlad64 Posts: 377 Member
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    I agree with..."Azdak's advice and link was some of the best advice the OP could have gotten." 100%
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    So at the risk of over simplifying things (if I don't over simplify I'll end up over analyzing...), would you say that HIIT type workouts increase the ceiling of your ability while endurance training increases the base?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    My best advice: Don't take advice from people on public forums. instead, buy a few books written by professionals (athletes, coaches, sports physicians, etc), take what you want from each of them, and follow their programs. You'll get more sound advice from those than you ever will from a place like this.

    While I tend to agree with the spirit of your post, you're missing one key factor... the ability to sort out good infomration from bad and thus, with time, know the people who know what their talking about vs the people who just regurgitate whatever they heard from Dr Oz or their office mate's sister's personal trainer.

    Azdak knows his stuff. Lots of people can write books, that doesn't mean they know anything. I'll take Azdak's advice every time.
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    I have been using HR based training for the past few months and have been getting good results. Below are the HR zones I am using which I got from the book Advanced Marathoning, by Pete Pfitzinger. These give me nearly identical trainng ranges that I also calculated from Joe Friel's book, Total Heart Rate Training, and from Dr. Phil Maffetone's book, The Big Book of Endurance Training. I am hitting the paces at these heartrates prescribed by Jack Daniels in the book, Daniels' Running Formula, and from the McMillan Running Calculator. So, I am pretty confident in these numbers.

    The primary benefit I find is making sure I am running the correct intensity for the desired training adaptation during runs that are difficult to guage by pace such during adverse weather or on hills. It is also useful in making sure I hold back and don't push the effort on easy days too much which then allows me to be sufficiently recovered to run the hard days hard.

    Numbers below are % Heart Rate Reserve (HRR)

    Recovery 50 to 70
    General Aerobic / Easy. 62 to 75
    Long & Medium Long 65 to 78
    Marathon Pace. 73 to 84
    Lactate Threshold (Tempo). 77 to 88
    VO2max (5k pace). 91 to 94

    To answer the other question, Recovery, General Aerobic, and Long runs will increase the base and should make up around 80% of the training. Tempo and VO2max (otherwise known as HIIT) will increase the ceiling and should be less than 20% of the weekly volume. Tempo runs around 10 to 15% of weekly volume and VO2max around 5% of weekly volume. These recommendations are from Daniels' Running Formula.
  • jeffmineo
    jeffmineo Posts: 9
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    I know HR zones don't matter for weight loss. But is there any merit to them for endurance training?

    I've been doing triathlons for a few years now, but have never really "trained" for them. I practice my swim stroke/breathing enough so I don't drown, I ride because I enjoy it, and I run because I can't always ride. That's always been enough for me to be reasonably happy with my performance/time.

    During a run today I got thinking about training in HR zones and whether or not it's effective for increase endurance/mileage. Personally I think putting in more miles increases mileage (just like going faster increases speed), but I don't have any real evidence to support it, just personal experience.

    Thoughts?

    Not true at all... HR zones are what is needed for Weight Loss.... certain zones your not burning fat your burning sugars already processed.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,293 Member
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    I know HR zones don't matter for weight loss. But is there any merit to them for endurance training?

    I've been doing triathlons for a few years now, but have never really "trained" for them. I practice my swim stroke/breathing enough so I don't drown, I ride because I enjoy it, and I run because I can't always ride. That's always been enough for me to be reasonably happy with my performance/time.

    During a run today I got thinking about training in HR zones and whether or not it's effective for increase endurance/mileage. Personally I think putting in more miles increases mileage (just like going faster increases speed), but I don't have any real evidence to support it, just personal experience.

    Thoughts?

    Not true at all... HR zones are what is needed for Weight Loss.... certain zones your not burning fat your burning sugars already processed.

    Wrong. cals in vs. cals out is what will get you weight loss. zone's are a crock of *kitten* and that theory has been debunked.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Options
    I know HR zones don't matter for weight loss. But is there any merit to them for endurance training?

    I've been doing triathlons for a few years now, but have never really "trained" for them. I practice my swim stroke/breathing enough so I don't drown, I ride because I enjoy it, and I run because I can't always ride. That's always been enough for me to be reasonably happy with my performance/time.

    During a run today I got thinking about training in HR zones and whether or not it's effective for increase endurance/mileage. Personally I think putting in more miles increases mileage (just like going faster increases speed), but I don't have any real evidence to support it, just personal experience.

    Thoughts?

    Not true at all... HR zones are what is needed for Weight Loss.... certain zones your not burning fat your burning sugars already processed.

    Wrong. cals in vs. cals out is what will get you weight loss. zone's are a crock of *kitten* and that theory has been debunked.

    Agreed. Additionally, exercise doesn't burn fat or muscle. It burns calories. Where your body gets those calories depends on a variety of things.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
    Options
    Not true at all... HR zones are what is needed for Weight Loss.... certain zones your not burning fat your burning sugars already processed.
    Incorrect. Substrate utilization during aerobic exercise is totally irrelevant. A higher percentage of fat is burned during low-intensity exercise, but not necessarily a higher amount of fat. Exercise at higher intensity burns more calories, and a caloric deficit is what creates weight loss.

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