Running, weight loss and muscle maintenance

BerryH · February 2013

Hi lovely MFPeeps, I was wondering if those of you in the know could help me drum up a balanced running and resistance training programme.

A dyed-in-the-wool runner for 15 years (but a very, very slow one), I've put it on the back-burner after a series of injuries and general ennui. However, I'm battling back (I previously completed Zombies, Run! and I was using the Zombie 5K app to build back up), but the winter weather has rather put that on a hiatus. Instead I've been putting in a lot of gym work and have changed shape considerably, but not so much my weight:

Now I'm planning to get back into running, I need to actually reduce my mass. At 5' 8" I'm about 12 stone 10 (178lbs) and need to lose around 14lbs to be at my fighting weight (I'm no skinny minnie!). However, I don't want to ditch my gym workouts, I'm just getting to enjoy the flexing!

Diet wise I'm running at a 250 calorie deficit for a 0.5lb a week loss as I've been at this a while and I'm in no hurry. However, I've come to a bit of a standstill - I know I'm not a special snowflake, so it's probably down to a margin of error in recording food intake, and getting a lower TDEE and exercise burn than I record due to getting fitter.

See, I know what I'm doing for race training, and I know what I'm doing with gym work, but I have no idea how to put them together effectively without compromising one over the other, or being too achy from lifting to run and vice versa.

I have LOADS of time - my first 10K isn't until September (though it's a fairly tough, hilly one) and I'll probably do a couple of 5Ks in summer, but at the moment I need to build up my distance slowly again.

Realistically, I won't work out formally more than five times a week, though I do use walking and swimming as active rest.

Any help much appreciated, thanks in advance :flowerforyou:

FJMilner · February 2013

As you know Im in the same boat really and I think this is how my workout schedule will go...

Monday = rest
Tuesday = 1 hour run
Wednesday = weights
Thursday= 1 hour run
Friday = rest
Saturday = half hour run and weights (possibly weights on a friday night instead)
Sunday = long walk or run

Does that sound reasonable?

Yanicka1 · February 2013

Bumping for my awesome friends that know whay more than I do

oh and you look awesome!!!

Matt_Wild · February 2013

Muscle is maintained because you lift heavy enough for the body to be stressed and it realise it needs the muscle rather than catabolise it. I would suggest no less than 3 sessions of weights per week.

BerryH · February 2013

As you know Im in the same boat really and I think this is how my workout schedule will go...
<snip>
Does that sound reasonable?

Very! I'd slot in the training session from my plan for the running. But with no gym and dark nights and mornings, my sessions are getting a bit long to squeeze into my lunch break. Time to man up!

BerryH · February 2013

Muscle is maintained because you lift heavy enough for the body to be stressed and it realise it needs the muscle rather than catabolise it. I would suggest no less than 3 sessions of weights per week.

Thanks. Would those be full-body or alternate upper and lower?

And would you recommend I stick with high weights, low reps, or go for mid-weight, mid reps so I'm not running with permanent DOMS?

BerryH · February 2013

Bumping for my awesome friends that know whay more than I do

oh and you look awesome!!!

Cheers, m'dear :happy: :flowerforyou:

ka97 · February 2013

This is what I do. I can't guarantee it's the most effective in terms of maximizing progress in both areas, but I am progressing and it keeps me happy. I don't schedule rest days because there's just too much that I want to do, but I generally take a day of per week, and just alternate which day it is so that I don't miss the same workout two weeks in a row.

Monday - abs, spin class
Tuesday - legs, hills on the treadmill if the legs are feeling it
Wednesday - abs, back and chest, hills if I didn't do it on Tuesday
Thursday - soccer
Friday - treadmill sprints, plyometrics
Saturday - 4-6 mile run, arms and shoulders
Sunday - 9-12 mile run

BerryH · February 2013

This is what I do.
<snip>

Like it, thanks! I'd forgotten about different goals for each running session as I was just building up the distance, but making one intervals or sprints will definitely help.

Matt_Wild · February 2013

Muscle is maintained because you lift heavy enough for the body to be stressed and it realise it needs the muscle rather than catabolise it. I would suggest no less than 3 sessions of weights per week.

Thanks. Would those be full-body or alternate upper and lower?

And would you recommend I stick with high weights, low reps, or go for mid-weight, mid reps so I'm not running with permanent DOMS?

For most people 8-12 reps, 3-4 sets of per exercise, 4-5 different exercises. Lift each set until you can't cleanly lift the weight without cheating it up.

nturner612 · February 2013

im training for a half marathon myself. i started off with the 5day running training days and now im down to 3 days. but they are good days. i was runnin on my lunch break (and because i was in a hurry i was constatnly getting injured). Has anyone had success with training just 3 days a week? im now running 6 miles 3 days a week. moving on to 7 next week. and my half marathon is in may. any thoughts?

acpgranberg · February 2013

Hey OP, I'm starting the third week of Zombies, Run 5k training and yikes there seems to be a big jump up from the last two weeks. Did you notice that and how did you deal with it?

MrsSWW · February 2013

Bumping for Berry x

BerryH · February 2013

Has anyone had success with training just 3 days a week?

Yes, Hal Higdon and Runner's World both have well-regarded three-day marathon training programmes, which could be adapted for halfs. I tend to get injured if I attempt more.
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51151/Marathon-Marathon-3-Training-Program

BerryH · February 2013

Hey OP, I'm starting the third week of Zombies, Run 5k training and yikes there seems to be a big jump up from the last two weeks. Did you notice that and how did you deal with it?

Doesn't there just, not just in the running but the overall time - 50 minutes, yikes! I dealt with it by applying Berry's First Rule Of Running.

Can't manage the training session? Go slower. Still struggling? GO EVEN SLOWER!!! :laugh:

FJMilner · February 2013

im training for a half marathon myself. i started off with the 5day running training days and now im down to 3 days. but they are good days. i was runnin on my lunch break (and because i was in a hurry i was constatnly getting injured). Has anyone had success with training just 3 days a week? im now running 6 miles 3 days a week. moving on to 7 next week. and my half marathon is in may. any thoughts?

I would be tempted to stick at 6 miles twice a week and make the third run longer each week. You could then incorporate speed work/fartlek training into the shorter runs

NotBonJovi · February 2013

Awesome weight loss and transformation!

I trained for a Marathon just running three days a week (Tue, Thu and a long run Sat). I have been following Jeff Galloway's run-walk-run method and touch-wood have been injury free. Infact, I was able to go to work the very next day after running a full-marathon. Look at this link for 5k/10k training following his method -

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/5k.html

BerryH · February 2013

Lovely stuff, thanks peeps! So I'm looking at something like:

Monday - Off
Tuesday - Zombie 5K
Wednesday - Strength 1
Thursday - Zombie 5K
Friday - Strength 2
Saturday - Swim
Sunday - Sprint intervals and Strength 1

I could base the strength training around Stronglifts as it's nice and simple, maybe adding in more leg stabilising stuff for injury prevention, like lunges. After I've finished Zombies, I'd swap in a 10K programme with the long run at weekends. Does that sound about right?

I reserve the right to say "Stuff it!" and do something different like a class or DVD when I get bored!

FJMilner · February 2013

Sounds great to me!

BerryH · February 2013

Any ideas about calories, macros and nutrition? I'm loathe to eat much less than I currently do, can barely move of the sofa without a decent proportion of carbs, and have always failed to lose while training for previous races.

ejwme · February 2013

Muscle is maintained because you lift heavy enough for the body to be stressed and it realise it needs the muscle rather than catabolise it.

I have been mulling over BF% and training and resistance questions in my head lately, you just crystallized things neatly for me, thank you!!

To OP: consider throwing in some intervals on one of your running days (not sure what the Zombie 5k is, if that's what it is, nm). Great for both weight loss and for boosting your race pace. LSD runs are great, they're what I'd rather do, but intervals are where the money is at. I prefer hill repeats to track work, but YMMV.

blues4miles · February 2013

Just my own schedule as a runner and lifter for reference...(also very slow)

Sun - rest
Mon - 3.5 mile easy run, NROLW
Tue - 3 mile tempo run
Wed - 4 mile easy or 6 mile long run
Thu - Either 2-3 miles intervals, or easy depending on how I feel, NROLW
Fri - Whatever I didn't run on Wednesday
Sat - no run, NROLW

I ran for about a year before I added in the weight lifting. Starting both at the same time would probably be a harder strain. Also most if not all of my runs are mid to easy effort, I usually only do 1 tough run a week. In the two months of doing this, my running times have improved by quite a bit. And I've seen some strength gains, though I probably would have seen more if I wasn't running, my guess is long term running will slow my weight lifting progress, and I'm okay with that.

Can't help much on weight loss, I seem to be losing about 1 lb a month (with about 15 lbs yet to go just to get into the healthy range, and more I'll probably try to lose after that) but it hasn't been linear. Every single month feels like a plateau for me. Measurements have not changed much over the last two months either, but then if I'm losing only 1 lb a month that might be pretty normal. Like you I am frustrated, but not sure I want to cut back on eating yet. I seem to average about 1800 calories a day (trying to do the TDEE cut). I am debating either a diet break or a workout break or both to make sure I'm not wrecking my metabolism or overtraining, but still on the fence.

ka97 · February 2013

Any ideas about calories, macros and nutrition? I'm loathe to eat much less than I currently do, can barely move of the sofa without a decent proportion of carbs, and have always failed to lose while training for previous races.

I've pretty much stalled, so I may not be much help. I average about 1800, sometimes more, sometimes less. Unfortunately I think the occaisonal holiday or night out when I don't track has been ofsetting the small deficit I have. Plus it's a very small margin of error. I can't imagine eating any less though. My diary is open if you want to look. I think I'm set at 50% carbs, 25% fat, and 25% protein, though I'm often over on the protein and under on the fat. I can't imagine running without the carbs and don't really plan to change it.

Running, weight loss and muscle maintenance

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