Vibram/Newton/Barefoot Running support

manetta1
manetta1 Posts: 138
edited October 10 in Fitness and Exercise
Hey I just wanted to get a thread going for everyone that is attempting to try the various methods besides the typical running shoes. I know of the Newton shoes which have virtually no heel and the Vibram which is what I am using currently. I was hoping this thread can be popular and people can list some of the training drills, tips, books, what they find to help them adjust and if their running has improved at all. The obvious book out that pretty much jump started the barefoot movement is "born to run". There is also another book out called "barefoot running". Any websites or blogs would be nice too. Lets try to keep this thread going barefoot runners!
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Replies

  • rmccully
    rmccully Posts: 319
    How are you liking the Vibrant shoes? I want to get a pairbut they are on some big of a back order it may be months before I may get a pair.
  • Chenoachem
    Chenoachem Posts: 1,758 Member
    I am doing a combination of FF Sprints and complete barefoot running. I have been using "Barefoot Running" by Michael Sandler and his website RunBare.com as a guide. I have also used Barefoot Ted as a guide ( you can google him).

    I have worked up to doing 1.7 miles using my Vibrams. I was using the KSO's but I found that in the heat my toes would start to go numb. The only "injury" I have gotten were a couple of low end blisters from hot surfaces.

    I am currently following the blog "Barefoot Experiment" by Roderick Russel, who is starting a journy into barefoot running and has a really interesting perspective on running. http://roderickrussell.com/running/
  • LittleSpy
    LittleSpy Posts: 6,754 Member
    I've been running in Vibram FiveFingers for about 1.5 months now. I seriously no longer have any pain from running (was previously suffering regularly from shin splints and tendonitis).

    The first book I read was a free ebook called "Running Fast and Injury Free" by Gordon Pirie. You can find it free a few places online. I recommend it. I'm currently trying to read "Born to Run" but... his writing style is killing me. :sick: :laugh:

    Anyway, since the switch, not only am I pain free (which was the biggest plus to me), but also my speed has dramatically increased with very little effort. I was pretty pitiful before running about 4.0mph (I'm short, okay? :tongue:). Every time I tried to increase my speed, I'd get shin splints. Now I pretty easily jog 6.0mph and I feel like I can handle 7-8mph eventually (as soon as my lungs catch up!). I don't know if I ever would've been able to even consider those speeds running heel-first.

    rmccully -- why not just order them directly from the manufacturer? That's what I did. While the classics are mostly on backorder, the sprints are available in most sizes on their website. http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/
  • rmccully
    rmccully Posts: 319
    little spy, I will have to check into that I guess but I do belive that is what the store did because they were out and they were told they were out when they went onling. But I will see if I can call someone there and get somewhere.

    my low back and right knee bother me at times so I have to really watch the running and jumping things will these shoes work for me?
  • Chenoachem
    Chenoachem Posts: 1,758 Member
    little spy, I will have to check into that I guess but I do belive that is what the store did because they were out and they were told they were out when they went onling. But I will see if I can call someone there and get somewhere.

    my low back and right knee bother me at times so I have to really watch the running and jumping things will these shoes work for me?

    Possibly. But if you are used to wearing shoes with support all the time there is some transition time before being able to run barefoot/minimlalist. I wore them starting about 1 hour around town, then increased slowly for about 1 month before I started running. This is how you can prevent overuse injuries since you will be using foot and leg muscles that are not used to working. You have to build up the strength in the arch of your foot.

    The idea of minimalist or barefoot running is that you allow your body and brain to work naturally and it improves your form. If you want to try something for right now without minimalist shoes, two things are recommended, 1. Try the book ChiRunning, a lot of the form ideas are the same in barefoot running 2. Do more walking around barefoot then try running in grassy areas completely barefoot. These are things recommended to do before even going out with Vibrams or other minimalist shoes. Nike has a new minimalist shoe now called Nike Free.
  • LittleSpy
    LittleSpy Posts: 6,754 Member
    I agree -- it's not about what the shoe does, it's about what the shoe *doesn't* do (impede our "natural" running form). I ran on my treadmill in socks while I waited for my shoes to be shipped to me.

    I definitely 2nd the being careful with the transition. I walk around barefoot nearly all the time. I wear ballet flats to work and those come off as soon as I walk into my house. I wear Chucks most of the time when I'm out casually. So, the only time I had worn supportive shoes over the last, I don't know, 10-15 years, was during my workouts and I *still* had to be careful about the transition. I started with about a 20 minute jog in them. The next day my calves were sore and my ankles were tired. I didn't experience any calf soreness after that, but my ankles took several weeks to adjust. I still have to be sure I stretch them well before and after. I'm not an avid runner. I usually only run 2-3 miles about 3 times a week.

    And rmccully -- you don't need to call anyone. Just go to the website & place your order directly with the manufacturer. :smile: I measured my feet carefully and used the size chart on their website and my shoes fit well. Every store (3 of them) I called in my city that was listed as a carrier was out of stock in my size & told me they had no idea when they would have more. I got exactly the style, color, and size I needed from the manufacturer (and the price was cheaper than the stores were charging, too).
  • immacookie
    immacookie Posts: 7,424 Member
    I've been hearing more and more about this lately... it really is an interesting concept. I would have never thought to try it out in socks on the treadmill though :blushing: :ohwell: :flowerforyou:
  • rmccully
    rmccully Posts: 319
    The only time I am really in shoes is when I go to work or the gym. At home and when I work out at home I am barefoot. I do where a lot of ballet flats. but even when I where my heels to work I take them off unless I have to get up and walk somewhere in the office.
  • manetta1
    manetta1 Posts: 138
    Ya I picked up my shoes from "running fit". They also mentioned that the sizes/shoes are unisex so technically you can get any color you want out there. I'm currently rocking the bikila, their suppose to be the newer design made for running. Haven't done any running with them yet as everyone else says that you have a transition period. Anxiously waiting till I feel comfy enough to start running, I did the stairmaster in them over 99 minutes on level 12 and felt great. My brother-in-law and I are really into trying this new theory/concept. A lot of people are skeptical, but if it makes me feel injury free and slightly faster i'm all for it. I've heard of that barefoot ted guy from my bro-in-law. There is a video that has been mentioned in a couple triathlon books called "evolution running" The concepts it mentions to bettter your technique are adopted from a barefoot style running so they have some great drills you can use to help with the transition.
  • disneyfetishboy
    disneyfetishboy Posts: 65 Member
    I have been running in both Vibram KSOs and Terra Plana EVOs for a few months now, and other than calf soreness, have had a great experience. I am not incredibly fast (just pushed past 5mph for extended periods of time), but I am just happy to be able to run without the chronic achilles/instep/planar fasciitis I've had since a young age. My longest run to date has been just 4 miles, but it was trail running in hilly terrain with a lot of steep grades. I'm regularly doing 2+ miles without a problem.

    I only run 2 or 3 times a week, the other days, I play basketball, do cardio-kickboxing (with the heavy bag), and work various cardio machines (elliptical, incline, stairmaster, rowing). I do all of these wearing minimalist shoes, with the KSOs being particulary good for martial arts.

    While I still wear regular (business) shoes to work, I have found myself substituting my EVOs for casual shoes. Luckily, they look great.
  • cabrzama
    cabrzama Posts: 24 Member
    I read Born to Run and have been intrigued by barefoot running ever since. I tried it around my block a couple times, but nothing too serious. Just wondering if anyone knows, in all your readings about this style, if it helps arthritic knees. My Doc told me back in 2003 (after getting one of them scoped) that I have arthritis in my knees and to not run ever again. I listened until last year. I have had some minor pain in my knees once in a while since taking up jogging again. So I am wondering the affects of running would be on my arthritis.
  • LittleSpy
    LittleSpy Posts: 6,754 Member
    As soon as I started reading about barefoot running, I started noticing how children run. :smile:

    Seriously, just watch a 7 year old run and you'll fully understand the concept of "barefoot" running. :laugh:

    Also, there's a Harvard professor (The Barefoot Professor) making waves with his research on running barefoot (focusing on form, rather than whether or not a runner is barefoot). http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7280/full/nature08723.html
  • disneyfetishboy
    disneyfetishboy Posts: 65 Member
    Cabrzama,

    I don't have any real personal experience with knee problems, but I have talked to some that have had luck with barefoot-style running.

    There's also some research being done in the area (http://www.medicineonline.com/news/12/6418/Going-barefoot-eases-burden-on-arthritic-knees.html and http://sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm), which suggests that barefoot running reduces the impact to knees.
  • lvfunandfit
    lvfunandfit Posts: 654 Member
    Running barefoot would ruin my pedicure! HA HA Just letting the girl in me come out!

    I'm glad you posted this! I've been curious as well about the Vibrams and Newtons! I am not sure I could run barefoot (I do like to have pretty feet) but I am interested in purchasing on of the shoes mentioned.
  • Chenoachem
    Chenoachem Posts: 1,758 Member
    cabrzama - I have had a lot of knee injuries in the past. After my last surgery, PT, and a physical trainer, they were convinced I could never run again. I was able to prove them wrong with stability shoes, but I had to ice my knees after each run. With barefoot running I have not had any problems with my knees. Not even a twinge. My ankles seems to take the brunt of the stabilizing instead of my knees. To help with the transition, knowing I have knee issues, I do yoga almost every day. Even 15minutes a day has made a huge difference. Check out RunBare.com. He has major knee and hip issues and runs.

    I have also had a fun time watching little ones walk. Especially the ones that have just learned to walk. Watch them at a park for a bit and you will know exactly what to do.


    disneyfetishboy - How do you like the Terra Plana EVOs? I have seen them online but I wasn't sure what to think.
  • disneyfetishboy
    disneyfetishboy Posts: 65 Member
    Chenoachem,

    Love the EVOs so far! While they do certainly feel different than my Vibrams (I wear KSOs), because your forefoot is not wrapped, the groundfeel is the same.

    More importantly, I can wear regular socks with them so I don't need to wash them continuously! And while they look good, they're "normal" enough that I don't have to answer questions about them whereever I wear them (unlike the Vibrams).

    The worst thing(s) about the EVOs is the price and how hard they are to find! I hear Footlocker.com now has them (at a discount with a coupon), but not in all sizes.
  • Schaff
    Schaff Posts: 83
    Hey all! So glad to see so many people getting into barefoot running! I have been running barefoot for about a year, I started completely au natural and then bought a pair of vibrams so I could move up to different types of terrain. I started running on the grass turf of a rubber track, and have gradually made my way up to trail running. I mix it up between running barefoot and running in shoes, I use it mostly as a training tool, but I also do it just because I love the sensation! In February I bought a pair of Newtons so I could get more of the benefits of running barefoot out of a show. Survey says: the Newtons are pretty awesome, although running on trails is a little dicey. I also devoured "Born to Run". I definitely have felt my form improve exponentially. My best piece of advice to people who want to try it out, TAKE IT EASY, listen to your body, and relax! It's gonna feel different, your brain is going to go a little crazy because your feet have not really done this before. The trick is definitely to build up gradually. Oh, and the calf pain goes away in about 2 weeks. Good luck everyone!
  • Chenoachem
    Chenoachem Posts: 1,758 Member
    Anyone tried out the Nike Free? Ever heard about the Skora ?

    Just curious.

    Here is a running times article about barefoot running that is interesting.

    http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=19196
  • questionablemethods
    questionablemethods Posts: 2,174 Member
    Just wanted to revive this thread. I did a search on here for "barefoot running" because I have recently started trying it out. I am by no means a long-distance runner (I run about 10-12 miles/week) but I have always been slow because as soon as I start picking up the pace I feel like I am just hammering my body into the ground.

    Despite knowing about the benefits of a mid- or forefoot strike, I couldn't implement it for long in my big ol' running shoes (complete with orthotic inserts). Finally, after scaling back on my running program due to recent plantar fasciitis flareup, I decided to try giving barefoot running a try. After doing some research about transitioning to barefoot running, I've been going around my neighborhood completely barefoot because this is what Ken Bob Saxton (http://www.therunningbarefoot.com) recommends so that you can actually get the full feeling of the ground when you first start. I have to be hyper vigilant about watching my path (broken glass! nails!) but...

    OH WOW! So, my foot already feels better. I have done three short, slow runs in the past three days (5 mins, 8 mins, 13 mins). My calves are sore after today's 13 min run, so maybe I ramped up a bit too quickly. Other than that, that is the only soreness I've had. (We'll see how I feel tomorrow.) The big thing is my plantar fasciitis pain is gone! At least for now! It just disappeared. It is almost like just running barefoot gave me the deep achilles stretch I needed. Who knows. I just hope this trend continues. I would love to be able to increase my milage and speed without feeling like I am just pounding my joints to death all the time.

    The real issue is winter in Minnesota I suppose... Maybe I'll have to try some of the minimalist shoes for that. :happy:
  • princessorchid
    princessorchid Posts: 198 Member
    I wear hiking boots with a Vibram sole (my boyfriend has a pair as well) and we even have a pair for the dog for longer walks! I've not tried running in them though...
  • questionablemethods
    questionablemethods Posts: 2,174 Member
    I wear hiking boots with a Vibram sole (my boyfriend has a pair as well) and we even have a pair for the dog for longer walks! I've not tried running in them though...

    Vibram makes soles for a lot of different shoes (like my Chacos sandals). I think the ones mentioned here are specifically the "five finger" shoes. They look like gloves for the feet with five individual toes and are supposed to be pretty close to barefoot but with protection for the soles. Is that what your hiking boots are like? I haven't explored their entire five-finger line of shoes.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
    I have been intrigued by bare foot running for the past few months. I don't have any lingering runner injuries and my stride doesn't feel like I am going to need too much adjustment. I just picked up a pair of KSO's less than a week ago. Been wearing them just walking around and they feel great. Took a couple 100 yard or so runs in them just to see how it feels. I like them. As i get more time I will properly transition over and see how things go.
  • Chenoachem
    Chenoachem Posts: 1,758 Member
    Rybo and kaitlinj - Welcome to the dark side. There is no going back now. :laugh:

    katitinj - I would recommend taking a day off between running and do something different. Your tendons and muscles need to get used to the movement. Pushing to fast without proper healing between each run can cause another injury.

    Happy Running !
  • disneyfetishboy
    disneyfetishboy Posts: 65 Member
    I have been intrigued by bare foot running for the past few months. I don't have any lingering runner injuries and my stride doesn't feel like I am going to need too much adjustment. I just picked up a pair of KSO's less than a week ago. Been wearing them just walking around and they feel great. Took a couple 100 yard or so runs in them just to see how it feels. I like them. As i get more time I will properly transition over and see how things go.

    My barefoot stride was pretty good, even when I started, but as the miles go by, I can still feel my stride evolving. I especially feel it when I start running or accelerate - instead of pumping my legs harder, I simply "lean into my run" more. I have my footstrikes up into the 170 range now (180 supposed to be optimal), and better yet, never feel like my legs or feet are holding me back when running. Of course, I wish I could say the same for my lungs!
  • questionablemethods
    questionablemethods Posts: 2,174 Member
    katitinj - I would recommend taking a day off between running and do something different. Your tendons and muscles need to get used to the movement. Pushing to fast without proper healing between each run can cause another injury.

    Yeah. I'm not going to run today. I originally thought "I'll just do five minutes 3 times this week and see how it feels." Well, after the first day my heel pain was pretty much GONE and I just wanted to do it again! And then, I wanted to go longer! Same with yesterday. I need to really remind myself to ease into it. Never imagined getting to the point of having to STOP myself from going out for a run! :laugh:
  • disneyfetishboy
    disneyfetishboy Posts: 65 Member
    Yeah. I'm not going to run today. I originally thought "I'll just do five minutes 3 times this week and see how it feels." Well, after the first day my heel pain was pretty much GONE and I just wanted to do it again! And then, I wanted to go longer! Same with yesterday. I need to really remind myself to ease into it. Never imagined getting to the point of having to STOP myself from going out for a run! :laugh:

    I think a good move. From reading the runningworld and birthdayshoes forums, it seems as though the #1 mistake made by people getting into barefoot running is "Too Much Too Soon" (TMTS). It seems as though almost all the members there had to backtrack their progress once or twice because of their over-enthusiasm . . .
  • am_lowe
    am_lowe Posts: 113
    tagging this ...
  • disneyfetishboy
    disneyfetishboy Posts: 65 Member
    This weekend, I was playing pickup basketball with some guys at the gym and I was asked about my shoes (the TP EVOs). They thought they were some specialty sprinting shoes because I was the "fast guy" at the gym.

    I had to take it as a compliment, not only because I haven't been the "fast guy" for 25 years, but also because the guys I am playing with are 10-20 years younger than me. I'm quite happy to have mobility restored, thanks in good part to leaving traditional footwear behind!

    Now if only I could convince the gym to let me play barefoot, the kids would be very impressed.
  • Chenoachem
    Chenoachem Posts: 1,758 Member
    This weekend, I was playing pickup basketball with some guys at the gym and I was asked about my shoes (the TP EVOs). They thought they were some specialty sprinting shoes because I was the "fast guy" at the gym.

    I had to take it as a compliment, not only because I haven't been the "fast guy" for 25 years, but also because the guys I am playing with are 10-20 years younger than me. I'm quite happy to have mobility restored, thanks in good part to leaving traditional footwear behind!

    Now if only I could convince the gym to let me play barefoot, the kids would be very impressed.

    That's awesome. I know some friends that had a hard time getting to wear thier FF's into the gym. They just don't want to liable if someone dropps a dumbell on their foot, I guess.
  • vineas
    vineas Posts: 84
    I've always run this way, in high school people used to comment on how "weird" I ran. Once I started running again this summer, I picked up some Newtons and they are so nice. I still run the same way in regular running shoes, but the Newtons are far superior to it. Are there any alternatives to the Virbrams that have the foot mold feel? I'd like to try them out once my Newtons are worn out, but I've read that they pretty much won't work for me because of my toes (my 2nd toe is quite a bit longer than my big toe).
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