People, get to know your CARBS!
emederos
Posts: 25
I see a lot of people unclear about what types of food they can or can't eat because of the carb content. I don't think a lot of people really have a grasp of how one's body processes carbohydrates so I aim to clarify. Read on if you want to be an educated fat-eradicator!
Carbohydrates are the first of the two "energy" nutrients. Each gram of carbs provide 4 calories. The main function of carbs in the body is to provide a quick source of fuel for physical and mental work. It can be stored in any of the three main storage units of the body: in the muscle and liver as glycogen but also as body fat.
Carbs are the body's preferred energy source under most circumstances, so if sufficient amounts of carbs are present in the diet, it's hard to "force" the body to use fat for fuel. In other words, if you eat a lot of carbs, your blubber will likely stay right where it is.
Carbs also cause the greatest insulin spike of all three main macronutrients (protein, carbs, fat). In fact, the elevation of blood sugar levels (carbs are sugar) is the main stimulus for insulin release. This is both a pro and a con: insulin can help drive protein and carbs into the muscle (a Good Thing) but it can also stimulate fat storage (a Bad Thing). Furthermore, as long as insulin levels are elevated, it's next to impossible under normal circumstances to stimulate the release of fatty acids from the fat stores. This means that as long as insulin levels are high, fat loss is almost impossible. Remember also that when insulin levels are elevated it puts your body into "storage" mode.
So under certain circumstances elevated insulin is a good thing (when you need to shuttle in nutrients to your muscles ASAP) but most of the time it's not. The only two times you should have a lot of carbs (and thus spike insulin) are at breakfast, and right after a workout.
After you wake up, the breakfast insulin spike will help halt the catabolic (muscle wasting) state brought on by eight or more hours of fasting ("breakfast," of course, means "breaking the fast"). After a workout, the insulin spike will rapidly deliver the nutrients to the muscle. This will initiate the recovery and building process immediately, while countering the actions of cortisol. Keep in mind, however, that the amount of carbs you should have at these times will vary greatly depending on your goal and degree of leanness.
Any other time is not a good time to consume a significant amount of carbs, as the insulin elevation will have a negative impact on body composition. Your insulin level remains elevated for up to 4 or 5 hours after a carb-rich meal, which can bring fat loss to a standstill for this period of time. In other words, a high sugar meal will not only directly add fat to your body, it will also prevent fat use effectively, turning you into a fat storing machine.
Although carbs are your body's preferred fuel source, carbohydrates aren't essential the way many amino acids and fatty acids are essential. This means that you could function properly even on a diet of zero carbs: the body would adapt to other fuel sources and you'd do just fine.
Carbohydrates come in many varieties. Without going into too much detail, every carbohydrate from pure sugar to whole wheat is turned into glucose in the body. The main difference is the speed at which it's turned into glucose. The faster it turns into glucose, the greater the insulin spike will be (because more glucose will enter the blood stream at once). The speed at which a carbohydrate (or any food, for that matter) elevates blood sugar is measured by the glycemic index (GI). Every food is given a specific GI number, and the higher the number is, the faster it elevates blood sugar levels. While not always perfectly accurate, it does give us a clue as to how much a food will affect insulin production.
Items such as whole-grain products have a much lower GI than their refined-flour cousins. This means that the body can effectively manage the insulin response and you won't suffer fat-storage for it. The ugly cousins (white bread, candy, etc.) will provide a rapid insulin spike which will result in that spare tire around your midsection getting bigger.
But no need to be super scientific about it. If your goal is body composition in general, the following rule applies:
Must-have carb sources: green veggies (broccoli, cucumbers, lettuce, spinach, celery, asparagus, etc.)
Can-have carb sources: other veggies (except potatoes), berries (blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, blackberries, etc.)
Occasional carb sources: Other fruits
Rare carb sources: brown rice, whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta, cream of wheat, potatoes, yams
Should-avoid carb sources: white bread, white pasta, oatmeal
Must-avoid carb source: pastries, cookies, candy and any other junk sugary food
Carbohydrates are the first of the two "energy" nutrients. Each gram of carbs provide 4 calories. The main function of carbs in the body is to provide a quick source of fuel for physical and mental work. It can be stored in any of the three main storage units of the body: in the muscle and liver as glycogen but also as body fat.
Carbs are the body's preferred energy source under most circumstances, so if sufficient amounts of carbs are present in the diet, it's hard to "force" the body to use fat for fuel. In other words, if you eat a lot of carbs, your blubber will likely stay right where it is.
Carbs also cause the greatest insulin spike of all three main macronutrients (protein, carbs, fat). In fact, the elevation of blood sugar levels (carbs are sugar) is the main stimulus for insulin release. This is both a pro and a con: insulin can help drive protein and carbs into the muscle (a Good Thing) but it can also stimulate fat storage (a Bad Thing). Furthermore, as long as insulin levels are elevated, it's next to impossible under normal circumstances to stimulate the release of fatty acids from the fat stores. This means that as long as insulin levels are high, fat loss is almost impossible. Remember also that when insulin levels are elevated it puts your body into "storage" mode.
So under certain circumstances elevated insulin is a good thing (when you need to shuttle in nutrients to your muscles ASAP) but most of the time it's not. The only two times you should have a lot of carbs (and thus spike insulin) are at breakfast, and right after a workout.
After you wake up, the breakfast insulin spike will help halt the catabolic (muscle wasting) state brought on by eight or more hours of fasting ("breakfast," of course, means "breaking the fast"). After a workout, the insulin spike will rapidly deliver the nutrients to the muscle. This will initiate the recovery and building process immediately, while countering the actions of cortisol. Keep in mind, however, that the amount of carbs you should have at these times will vary greatly depending on your goal and degree of leanness.
Any other time is not a good time to consume a significant amount of carbs, as the insulin elevation will have a negative impact on body composition. Your insulin level remains elevated for up to 4 or 5 hours after a carb-rich meal, which can bring fat loss to a standstill for this period of time. In other words, a high sugar meal will not only directly add fat to your body, it will also prevent fat use effectively, turning you into a fat storing machine.
Although carbs are your body's preferred fuel source, carbohydrates aren't essential the way many amino acids and fatty acids are essential. This means that you could function properly even on a diet of zero carbs: the body would adapt to other fuel sources and you'd do just fine.
Carbohydrates come in many varieties. Without going into too much detail, every carbohydrate from pure sugar to whole wheat is turned into glucose in the body. The main difference is the speed at which it's turned into glucose. The faster it turns into glucose, the greater the insulin spike will be (because more glucose will enter the blood stream at once). The speed at which a carbohydrate (or any food, for that matter) elevates blood sugar is measured by the glycemic index (GI). Every food is given a specific GI number, and the higher the number is, the faster it elevates blood sugar levels. While not always perfectly accurate, it does give us a clue as to how much a food will affect insulin production.
Items such as whole-grain products have a much lower GI than their refined-flour cousins. This means that the body can effectively manage the insulin response and you won't suffer fat-storage for it. The ugly cousins (white bread, candy, etc.) will provide a rapid insulin spike which will result in that spare tire around your midsection getting bigger.
But no need to be super scientific about it. If your goal is body composition in general, the following rule applies:
Must-have carb sources: green veggies (broccoli, cucumbers, lettuce, spinach, celery, asparagus, etc.)
Can-have carb sources: other veggies (except potatoes), berries (blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, blackberries, etc.)
Occasional carb sources: Other fruits
Rare carb sources: brown rice, whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta, cream of wheat, potatoes, yams
Should-avoid carb sources: white bread, white pasta, oatmeal
Must-avoid carb source: pastries, cookies, candy and any other junk sugary food
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Replies
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So basically you're telling me I can't eat most fruit on a daily basis because it's an occasional carb? Or that I should be AVOIDING brown rice, wheat pasta, wheat bread, pita, wraps, etc? Hmmm...
I don't think I agree. I like my fruit and pita bread!0 -
Thanks! That was very interesting to read..
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So basically you're telling me I can't eat most fruit on a daily basis because it's an occasional carb? Or that I should be AVOIDING brown rice, wheat pasta, wheat bread, pita, wraps, etc? Hmmm...
I don't think I agree. I like my fruit and pita bread!
That's exactly what i'm telling you.
Other Fruits are listed as an occasional carb source which means that you can ingest them as a snack or two throughout the day. Brown rice and pita bread ARE rare carb sources, I wouldn't have more than one meal that relied on these as a side dish. If the brown rice and pita bread are that important to you, then my recommendation would be to eat them as a post workout meal. You're much better off having a side of steamed veggies or beans and a lean protein source.
That's the difference between double-digit and single-digit BF %0 -
I know what your saying is true because I lost a bunch of pounds but most body comp following but I was working out and you can eat about 45 gm per meal of carbs with that because you don't want to cause a fatty embolis in your kidneys and be on dialysis because you want to be skinny. They is a balance or you can spill ketones and loose too much fat too quickly and kill your kidneys due to the overload placed on them. Especiialy older folks. Too low of carbs for long period is extremely dangerous you have to be careful. Once I stayed on it too long and I woke up with kidney pain and ate a banana and other fruit to start metabolizing carbs that day. It was scary. You have to be careful. Since then I keep to ADA recomendations of 45-60 gm of carbs per meal...when working out...0
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Ok so I'm not all that sure about the correct terminology here buuuuutttttt.....if you are saying that fruit causes a spike in sugar levels/insulin then how would you explain something like this:
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/blood-sugar-testing0 -
Ok so I'm not all that sure about the currect terminology here buuuuutttttt.....if you are saying that fruit causes a spike in sugar levels/insulin then how would you explain something like this:
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/blood-sugar-testing
Clearly, you didn't understand.
Let me break it down even further. Go back and read the section on the Glycemic Index to reinforce what i'm about to say.
Every carb you eat will prompt an insulin response in your body. How your body reacts depends on the carbohydrate makeup of the food you're eating. So simple carbs (sugars) will immediately break down and prompt a rapid insulin spike. Foods like bananas (which are low on the glycemic index) will break down more slowly, providing your body a more gradual and manageable insulin spike to work with.
To make it easy to visualize, imagine playing tetris. When you eat a piece of candy it's like playing tetris on level 99 when all the pieces are flying at you at high speed. When your body fills its glycogen stores (which will happen quickly because all these pieces are coming so fast) it will begin to store the remaining glucose as fat.
Now, eating a food low on the glycemic index (let's say bananas or a whole wheat product) is like playing tetris on level 1. The pieces come at you nice and slowly and your body can effectively manage glycogen stores because the food is breaking down slowly and as it does "spots" for glycogen storage open up. The body can direct nutrients to where they need to go and all is well.
I hope that answered your question.0 -
In my opinion, firstly, nobody knows 100% about nutrition. There are theories, facts and all that, but nobody knows 100% how everything affects our bodies in every way. Secondly, everybody is different, therefore I think it's impossible to know 100% about nutrition and how it affects me, you, and your friends and what we all know/learn will affect each of us differently.
You all should watch the movie "Fat Head"
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I agree with you completely emederos. I have done a ton of research on this sort of thing and you are correct (I am also a health care professional for over 9 years, now heading into chiropractic school)...0
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In my opinion, firstly, nobody knows 100% about nutrition. There are theories, facts and all that, but nobody knows 100% how everything affects our bodies in every way. Secondly, everybody is different, therefore I think it's impossible to know 100% about nutrition and how it affects me, you, and your friends.
That's just plain ignorant. Although people will react differently to different macronutrients due to things such as genetic makeup (for example some people handle carbs better than others), to say that the science of nutrition should be disregarded because no one knows 100% of it is foolhardy, to say the least. The fact remains that the basics of nutritional science are rock solid.0 -
In my opinion, firstly, nobody knows 100% about nutrition. There are theories, facts and all that, but nobody knows 100% how everything affects our bodies in every way. Secondly, everybody is different, therefore I think it's impossible to know 100% about nutrition and how it affects me, you, and your friends.
That's just plain ignorant. Although people will react differently to different macronutrients due to things such as genetic makeup (for example some people handle carbs better than others), to say that the science of nutrition should be disregarded because no one knows 100% of it is foolhardy, to say the least. The fact remains that the basics of nutritional science are rock solid.
Hey guess what, I never said to disregard it. In fact I was with you 100% on what you say. Good grief.
Calm the **** down, eh?0 -
:slowly back out of the room:0
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Thanks for the info. I've read about different carbs, GI index, etc, and some of your post was filling in the missing pieces.
I Iiked your comparison to tetris:laugh:0 -
In my opinion, firstly, nobody knows 100% about nutrition. There are theories, facts and all that, but nobody knows 100% how everything affects our bodies in every way. Secondly, everybody is different, therefore I think it's impossible to know 100% about nutrition and how it affects me, you, and your friends.
That's just plain ignorant. Although people will react differently to different macronutrients due to things such as genetic makeup (for example some people handle carbs better than others), to say that the science of nutrition should be disregarded because no one knows 100% of it is foolhardy, to say the least. The fact remains that the basics of nutritional science are rock solid.
Hey guess what, I never said to disregard it. In fact I was with you 100% on what you say. Good grief.
Calm the **** down, eh?
Well then i apologize, i misread your post. (p.s. - i am calm :bigsmile: )0 -
In my opinion, firstly, nobody knows 100% about nutrition. There are theories, facts and all that, but nobody knows 100% how everything affects our bodies in every way.
That's actually true, and I say that as a registered dietitian. It is actually very difficult to perform reliable studies about nutrition because locking people in a room and monitoring exactly what they eat is considered rather unethical! haha
Honestly though, I don't agree with anything you have written (sorry!) but not going to argue it because you are clearly set on your beliefs. You do realise that there are 4 energy providing nutrients though? Just checking 0 -
Honestly though, I don't agree with anything you have written (sorry!) but not going to argue it because you are clearly set on your beliefs. You do realise that there are 4 energy providing nutrients though? Just checking
How could you not agree with anything i've written? This is the basic function of carbohydrates in the body, it's not opinion, it's based on fact. But if you have another model of how carbs work within the body, i'd love to hear it.
And there are people who argue that liquids are a macronutrients, which I don't believe because the liquid itself is not a nutrient (the carbs, fats, and proteins within the liquid are the nutrients)0 -
Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with the action of carbs... I was disagreeing with the conclusions you drew from that.
I'm not sure who classifies liquids as a macronutrient :S but the 4 energy containing nutrients I was referring to are carbohydrates (16kj/g), protein (17kj/g), fat (37kj/g), alcohol (29kj/g).0 -
Why is everyone jumping on someone who is just looking to educate? They aren't telling anyone 'you have to do this' or trying to convince everyone to go on a Pineapple, sprouts and liver diet. It is written for people who need help understanding carbs... those of you that are complaining obviously don't think you need help with your carbs. Are they 100% accurate - I don't know. But I do know they aren't so off base to warrant such negative comments. They aren't so off base that it can't help people who have questions about carbs.
This site is full of opinions and stories of what works for people. We all pay attention to the things that make sense to us individually and ignore the things we either don't believe or aren't ready to integrate into our lives. If you don't agree with this post and don't feel anyone is at serious risk of health issues by reading it, then don't go against the nature of this site by attacking the author.0 -
Thanks for the education.0
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Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with the action of carbs... I was disagreeing with the conclusions you drew from that.
I'm not sure who classifies liquids as a macronutrient :S but the 4 energy containing nutrients I was referring to are carbohydrates (16kj/g), protein (17kj/g), fat (37kj/g), alcohol (29kj/g).
Alcohol may be an energy containing nutrient; however, it is not classified as a macronutrient because it is not essential to our survival.0 -
I appreciate people dropping some knowledge on us from time to time- but I just want to go on record and say there are a lot of factors to a balanced diet, and there is nothing wrong with a low two digit body fat percentage- ( double digits can be healthy). I personally need a lot of fiber to live my life right, and I sometimes get that from some plain oatmeal in the morning- which you put on the avoid list. , and some raw veggies and fruits throughout the day
I am sure you know your stuff about carbs- but I think that if a banana makes me happy, it's a much better and healthier choice than the junk many folks eat. I know this is not your point- that you are being specific about carb education, but some of the things on the "worse" list seemed like things that you described as low on the GI- so on that point I am a bit confused.0 -
I have to agree with this. I am not going to argue with any of the science presented here, but I also know that I have had what I consider to be great success eating a diet that has plenty of carbs: oatmeal, potatoes, whole-wheat pasta, brown rice, whole-wheat bread. I've hit my original goal, am close to hitting my new fine-tuned goal, and I feel better than I've ever felt before. A single-digit body fat percentage is not something I am interested in. If I were, I'd seriously consider changing the way I'm doing things. But if what I'm doing is working for me, I have zero motivation to change it drastically.I appreciate people dropping some knowledge on us from time to time- but I just want to go on record and say there are a lot of factors to a balanced diet, and there is nothing wrong with a low two digit body fat percentage- ( double digits can be healthy). I personally need a lot of fiber to live my life right, and I sometimes get that from some plain oatmeal in the morning, and some raw veggies and fruits throughout the day- Some of which are on the avoid list.
I am sure you know your stuff about carbs- but I think that if a banana makes me happy, it's a much better and healthier choice than the junk many folks eat. I know this is not your point- that you are being specific about carb education, but some of the things on the "worse" list seemed like things that you described as low on the GI- so on that point I am a bit confused.0 -
I've been trying to make sense of this forever! I am insulin resistant and I've never been able to get a full grasp on how to keep things under control. The only thing I know is when I eat too many carbs, my heart races like I'm having a panic attack. For years that's what I attributed it to but when they put me on glucophage (spelling?), the heart racing episodes were greatly reduced!
Thanks to the info0 -
So basically you're telling me I can't eat most fruit on a daily basis because it's an occasional carb? Or that I should be AVOIDING brown rice, wheat pasta, wheat bread, pita, wraps, etc? Hmmm...
I don't think I agree. I like my fruit and pita bread!
I have been saying this for the past year. The original poster is absolutely correct in what they are saying.0 -
I've been trying to make sense of this forever! I am insulin resistant and I've never been able to get a full grasp on how to keep things under control. The only thing I know is when I eat too many carbs, my heart races like I'm having a panic attack. For years that's what I attributed it to but when they put me on glucophage (spelling?), the heart racing episodes were greatly reduced!
Thanks to the info
The original posters post is why Atkins works for reversing insulin resistance. The Atkins plan (done by the book) is great for controlling blood sugar and negating insulin spikes and slowly reintroducing higher carb veggies, fruits, nuts, grains and dairy into your eating plan to find out if you have any food intolerances...............
Doing Atkins and working with a Naturopathic doctor, I was able to find out that I am severly allergic to broccoli and cauliflower. And these are veggies that I was consuming a lot of because my taste buds like them, but apparantly the rest of my body doesn't like them.0 -
Thanks for all this info ....I have oatmeal with blueberrys every morning , thought this was good but , I do know I couldn't loose weight when I ate alot of fruit , thinking it was good for me . I love fruit and could live on just that, (except I wouldn't loose any weight)0
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Thanks for all this info ....I have oatmeal with blueberrys every morning , thought this was good but , I do know I couldn't loose weight when I ate alot of fruit , thinking it was good for me . I love fruit and could live on just that, (except I wouldn't loose any weight)
Oatmeal in the morning is not a bad thing.
Upon waking, the muscles are primed to take in large amounts of calories (especially carbs) without inducing high levels of lipogenesis. In addition, a large breakfast will rev up the metabolism for the rest of the day. So it's safe to have that bowl of oatmeal in the morning (as well as any other good complex carbs).
When i say oatmeal and such should be avoided is for people who use it as a snack or meal replacement. Remember. Breakfast and Post-workout are carb-safe times.0 -
I thought single digit body fat percentages for women was considered unhealthy. Maybe that's only for older women?0
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As an aside, people. Please remember to apply these meals to your current goals. If you're not particularly interested in dropping to single % body fat, then all the tips may not apply to you. Just remember the basic rules of how carbs function and it'll help you understand your meal planning that much more.0
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It would appear you haven't read the available research on the subject with an objective eye. That's my take on your original post, which I don't say to offend. You seem stuck on the "carbs/insulin makes you fat" wagon which is quite an outdated model. You can't go down that path without factoring in energetic state for the 24-hour period.
What you're suggesting is that having elevated insulin blocks fat oxidation and lipolysis....which is true. After a meal, this does happen. The problem is even protein elevates insulin above fasting levels, so unless you're eating fat-only... well, you catch my drift.
The big glaring hole here is that carbophobes don't account for what happens the rest of the day. They can't address what happens, if, say, you eat on huge meal and spike the hell out of insulin, store fat, shut off lipolysis... and then don't eat again for the rest of the day.
If that one meal was only 1000 calories and you need 2000 a day to cover your energy costs, why exactly is the body just going to hang on to those calories when it needs them to survive?
Hint: It won't.
I'm not suggesting anyone go out and start scarfing down sugar by the bucket. That's not my point at all. But research clearly indicates that some folks will do better with more carbs in their diets than others. A lot of this is influenced by genetics, body fat, insulin sensitivity, training, etc. To blanketly state that carbs are evil outside very select windows of time is very misguided.
If you looked at the totality of research that's available with an objective eye, you'd see that there are enormous problems with it. The mostly glaringly obvious issue is the available research does not match protein intakes between the comparative diets. By this, I mean the high carb diet contains lower protein and the low carb diets contain higher protein. When the low carb diet "wins" in the various papers, authors mistakenly assume it's the low carbs that are creating the advantage.
You can't have multiple variables changing in a study and be sure of the causative factors for what you're studying.
In this case, higher protein means more preservation of lean body mass, which we know means higher energetic costs due to the metabolism of LBM vs. fat. It also means a higher thermic effect of feeding. As we know, protein has the highest TEF out of the macro nutrients so logically a diet higher in protein will net to less calories "making it through" to storage. Lastly, we know from the available research that protein is the most satiating nutrient so a higher protein diet will logically lead to a reduction in total calories consumed.
Most of the available low vs. mod/high carb research doesn't strictly control caloric intake data via ward. Therefore we're left with a lot of self-reporting which, we know by way of the available research, leads to very inaccurate data.
But even if it were accurate, given what I noted above about higher vs. lower protein consumptions... it becomes impossible to single out carbs as being the causative variable when you've got things like net energetic intakes, TEF, lean body mass discrepancies confounding the picture due to variations in protein consumption.
There are a variety of factors regulating fat metabolism other than insulin and insulin doesn't operate in a vacuum. Its effects are not independent of the energy status of the body. To suggest that insulin is responsible for a net gain in mass/energy in a living organism, without regards to net mass/energy intake, indicates a misunderstanding of the complexities governing factors of tissue gains/loss in the body.0 -
And for those who don't feel like reading all of that, which is most likely everyone who's not the original poster, there's really no reason to fear carbs if you have things planned out correctly.
If you're calories are in check relative to your goal and you're consuming adequate amounts of protein, essential fats and fibrous veggies... eating carbs throughout the day isn't going to make you fat or hinder your progress.
If we simply want to speak from anecdote... I eat carbs with every meal and have no issues maintaining leanness. I also have a full book of clients who can attest to the same thing.
Granted, some folks will invariably do better with a lower carb approach but that needs to be assessed on an individual basis. Insulin/carbs aren't universally "fattening" outside of breakfast and post workout feedings irregardless of calorie intake. That's simply not how it works.0
This discussion has been closed.
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