MFP calories or TDEE?

My son went to the doctor yesterday and she told him he needs to lose weight before he gets some permanent health problems. I have read a lot on here about using TDEE instead of the calories recommended by MFP. However, I calculated both for him and I don't see how he could possibly lose weight eating that many calories! I don't think he eats that much now. His TDEE, less 20% is 4888. MFP says 2250. Should he go with the 2250, 4888 or somewhere in between? I've ignored both and put mine for 1200 because that's what my doctor recommended. His doctor didn't tell him how many to eat per day and he didn't ask.
«1

Replies

  • AmyRhubarb
    AmyRhubarb Posts: 6,890 Member
    TDEE minus 20% is 4888?? Not sure I've ever seen one that high. How much weight does he need to lose? If the numbers are correct, I'm guessing he's a pretty big guy. How old, height and current weight? Does he exercise?
  • darlilama
    darlilama Posts: 794 Member
    WOW! Yeah, he must be significantly overweight… might run the numbers a few times. I've noted there are some differences between the various online calculators, but maybe not THAT much. In my case, MFP and TDEE calculations are very close.
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member
    He needs to lose over 100 lbs, he's a teen, 6'2" and no exercise at the moment but we are going to start making him at least walk on a treadmill 3 times a week to start. She offered no other advice than for him to feel hungry until his stomach shrinks and to start moving. She is sending him to a weight loss specialist but it may take a few weeks and I would like him to get started right away.
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    Both ways are valid as long as you're aware of how it works
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    Remember that MFP only responds to the data you enter and rate of loss you input - it doesn't "say" 2250.
    A fairer comparison would be MFP at 2lbs a week loss and TDEE minus 1000 calories.

    6110 is a huge number for his TDEE - did the Doctor suggest how fast your son should try and lose weight?
  • MFP tells me to eat 1480 to maintain my weight & TDEE tells me 2000 - so there is a big difference!
  • Talleifer
    Talleifer Posts: 44 Member
    What is his weight and projected activity level? That TDEE seems pretty high still.
  • aliann30
    aliann30 Posts: 291 Member
    He needs to lose over 100 lbs, he's a teen, 6'2" and no exercise at the moment but we are going to start making him at least walk on a treadmill 3 times a week to start. She offered no other advice than for him to feel hungry until his stomach shrinks and to start moving. She is sending him to a weight loss specialist but it may take a few weeks and I would like him to get started right away.

    What kind of doctor is this? I'm no expert but "feel hungry until his stomach shrinks" is a pretty idiotic method in my honest opinion. There's NO reason for him to feel like he's starving, and making him hate the process (ESPECIALLY as a teen boy who is HUNGRY!) is going to lead to failure for sure. Depending on the foods he eats he can have a huge deficit but eat very filling foods. "Feeling hungry" does not mean you're doing it right.

    **sorry that didn't answer your question. I don't have much experience on TDEE so don't have much advice on that.
  • Talleifer
    Talleifer Posts: 44 Member
    http://www.fat2fitradio.com/ and http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

    They both have BMR calculators and TDEE estimations.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    Ummmm......... go with the 2250.

    And replace the batteries in your calculator
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member
    WOW! Yeah, he must be significantly overweight… might run the numbers a few times. I've noted there are some differences between the various online calculators, but maybe not THAT much. In my case, MFP and TDEE calculations are very close.

    You were right...I checked two other sites and ended up with 3 different calculations. I will go with the lowest, 2505, and have him try that.
  • Lizzy622
    Lizzy622 Posts: 3,705 Member
    Both are usually fairly close. I would probably go with the 2250 (1200 seems way too low for a male who is 6'2"). The important thing is to get him involved and logging his own food. He needs to log every bite that goes in his mouth not only what Mom sees. This will also help the weight loss specialist when he is finally seen there.
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member
    Remember that MFP only responds to the data you enter and rate of loss you input - it doesn't "say" 2250.
    A fairer comparison would be MFP at 2lbs a week loss and TDEE minus 1000 calories.

    6110 is a huge number for his TDEE - did the Doctor suggest how fast your son should try and lose weight?

    No, she didn't. Just that he needs to lose weight or he is going to have serious health problems down the road.
  • Talleifer
    Talleifer Posts: 44 Member
    I don't know how old your son is or how much he weighs, but a 500lb 18 year old male who is moderately active (sports or exercise 3-5 times a week) has a TDEE of around 6000. IF he was 300 lbs, however, and still moderately active, his TDEE would be about 4200, which would mean a 20% reduction in TDEE is about 3300.
  • HMVOL7409
    HMVOL7409 Posts: 1,588 Member
    MFP tells me to eat 1480 to maintain my weight & TDEE tells me 2000 - so there is a big difference!

    Yes but there's a big difference between MFP and TDEE that MANY don't comprehend. MFP does not include activity so anything you burn you eat back. TDEE has activity figured in their calculations. Hence the major difference.

    OP: I would start with MFP as something seems way off in your TDEE calcs. Maybe also have your son see a registered dietician. Feel hungry to your stomach shrinks sounds like pretty moronic advice to me.
  • mrmarius
    mrmarius Posts: 1,802 Member
    when I calculated my tdee it was about 4000 before subtracting my 20 percent. mfp told me around 2200. I decided to settle on 2500. you just have to see what works
  • melsmith612
    melsmith612 Posts: 727 Member
    I'd have him try the MFP recommendations first and then switch to something else if that doesn't work or if he hits a plateau. Keep it simple to start so that he doesn't feel overwhelmed. Teenagers can develop long lasting body image issues from parents putting too much emphasis on their weight loss goals (speaking from experience here).
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member
    Ummmm......... go with the 2250.

    And replace the batteries in your calculator

    It wasn't the calculator, it was me. lol I tried the first website again and it came back with around 3,000. That website made you put in how many hours per day you do what and the first time I must have mistakenly put in light activity most of the day instead of very light. It made a huge difference.
  • tbcass
    tbcass Posts: 23
    When I worked for Jenny Craig, we always had teens on higher calorie programs. We always recommended slower weight loss for teens (especially 16 and under) because losing too fast could cause damage as they are still growing. We tried to keep teens around 1-2 lbs. when they would come in and have lost 5 or 6lbs in week 4 or 5 we look at what they were eating and make sure they were eating all of their calories. The calories could be higher because of his age, not just his size.

    Maybe focus on changing to healthier foods till you can meet with the nutrition specialist and get better tailored instructions. I wish all the luck in the world. As a Jenny Consultant, teenage boys seemed to have the hardest time "dieting" (that's all they see it as).
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    when I calculated my tdee it was about 4000 before subtracting my 20 percent. mfp told me around 2200. I decided to settle on 2500. you just have to see what works

    "You have to find what works" is great advice. Finding a number that is both a deficit and comfortable to live with can be done by trial and error.
    I would say that, in my opinion, for a teenager the MFP way of eating back exercise calories would be better than a TDEE minus a percentage method. Hopefully it would help encourage your son to be more active and develop healthy habits to carry forward into adult life.
  • concordancia
    concordancia Posts: 5,320 Member
    Personally, I find it easiest to use MFP as designed and eat back my exercise calories. I got very excited last night when my remaining calories were zero.

    The important thing is that he take control himself. Which system makes sense to him. with TDEE, you need to recalculate every 5-10 lbs, whereas MFP automatically recalculates when you update your weight. If he is too young for MFP, consider SparkTeens.

    As for movement, try to find something he enjoys: walking on a treadmill three times a a week would make me hate exercise! Does he have a gaming console? XBox 360 and Wii both have a lot of active games, and even training games to build strength.

    Is there a sport he is interested in? That would give him a goal to work toward and maybe even some concrete activities to try out.

    Finally, we get a lot of posts on here that families aren't supportive enough because they keep acting the wy they always have. It can really help for the rest of the family to eat healthy and get more active, too. The adults should be role models. This includes chucking everybody's trigger foods and agreeing what things can be in the house.
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member
    Personally, I find it easiest to use MFP as designed and eat back my exercise calories. I got very excited last night when my remaining calories were zero.

    The important thing is that he take control himself. Which system makes sense to him. with TDEE, you need to recalculate every 5-10 lbs, whereas MFP automatically recalculates when you update your weight. If he is too young for MFP, consider SparkTeens.

    As for movement, try to find something he enjoys: walking on a treadmill three times a a week would make me hate exercise! Does he have a gaming console? XBox 360 and Wii both have a lot of active games, and even training games to build strength.

    Is there a sport he is interested in? That would give him a goal to work toward and maybe even some concrete activities to try out.

    Finally, we get a lot of posts on here that families aren't supportive enough because they keep acting the wy they always have. It can really help for the rest of the family to eat healthy and get more active, too. The adults should be role models. This includes chucking everybody's trigger foods and agreeing what things can be in the house.

    Good point about the differences, I think MFP would be easier for him. We have other things here he could use, the treadmill would just be his first choice. We also have an elliptical, an exercise bike, mountain bikes, road bikes, a total gym, weights and videos. He used to have an xbox but has since moved on to PC games...big problem-that's all he wants to do besides homework. We have a Wii with fitness games but he doesn't like them. We used to belong to a gym and made him come with us but he would sit in a chair and listen to music until we finished. He played football in middle school but didn't want to do it in high school because the practices were "too hard" and he would throw up.

    We don't have any junk food in the house. He just way overeats what we do have. No sweets, no chips, no pretzels, no soda (except Diet Coke). But he will eat about 4-5 times what I do per meal. I know he gets up after we go to bed to eat because I hear him in the kitchen. He will pack his lunch for school and make two sandwiches...one for his school lunch and the other he eats right then for a snack. He will eat a whole box of cereal in 2 or 3 days. And sometimes he buys his lunch at school, I have no idea what he eats then. I know people look at him and think it's our fault and assume we have a bunch of junk in the house, but that's not the case. We have a lot of healthy options and our junk food consists of 100 calorie bags of popcorn, peanut butter, etc. We usually have granola bars too but my husband will give him one for an after school snack...that's probably the worst thing we keep in the house. But we hide them and he only gets one a day.
  • awesomek001
    awesomek001 Posts: 167 Member
    I can't even imagine a doctor having a teen count calories, even if they are morbidly obese. I had the same issue (morbidly obese son) and visited specialist after specialist, and none of them suggested calorie counting. Some of them were pretty useless in my real life, although they had great theories.

    For a teen (because they are still growing as well as learning healthy habits) don't focus on the calorie number. Just help him become consistent at logging - - everything (and not just what Mom sees, like someone already said). I'd bet that once he starts logging realistically, he'll make some changes without even thinking about calories. Most kids don't want to be unhealty - they just don't realize how much they are actually eating. Also, look at finding a nutrition information course for him to take. I found one at the University kinesiology department - geared specifically to teens. It helped them learn what calories mean, how to read labels, helped my son learn what's truly healthy vs what pretends to be healthy - and then also included an exercise component.

    Also, I'd suggest - you might not like this suggestion - don't add him as one of your friends. He has to take ownership of learning how to eat healthy, and you'll be there to support him, without a doubt. After all, you're already working with him and getting him on this site. BUT - if he thinks your "creeping" his food diary, he might not want to you know when he slips or has something that isn't quite right. He'll know - - but he won't write it. Just my suggestion, btw (and no, I'm not a professional - just a Mom of a "big boy")

    Good luck to you and to your son!
  • Railr0aderTony
    Railr0aderTony Posts: 6,803 Member
    Honestly, set him up with the MFP numbers at least at first until you and him can do some research and understand this stuff better. I have lost 111 pounds just following MFP. Also change Doctors.
  • Ely82010
    Ely82010 Posts: 1,998 Member
    If he is a teen, and under 18, then he shouldn't be in this database. I believe that there is another website for younger people but I can't remember the name.

    I would also ask the doctor to run some tests to make sure that his thyroid is working properly since overeating as he does, seems to me to be physiological problem.

    And maybe try to find out if there are other "external" problems in his life to account for his lack of interest in exercise and sports. He may be substituting whatever he feels that he is missing, with food.
  • escapeartist90210
    escapeartist90210 Posts: 56 Member
    From personal experience people over-estimate their calories from workouts and such to a heavy extent, I'd recommend following mfp with daily vitamins for best results. I'm no expert but from research I've done, it's best trust me. Remember, nobody actually starves in a defict of calories if they have fat reserves. The amount calories left in his bmr from the day will be taken from his fat stores whether it's a 100 calories or 2000. And, once he loses his fat reserves he can eat a lot more for maintenance.
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member
    If he is a teen, and under 18, then he shouldn't be in this database. I believe that there is another website for younger people but I can't remember the name.

    I would also ask the doctor to run some tests to make sure that his thyroid is working properly since overeating as he does, seems to me to be physiological problem.

    And maybe try to find out if there are other "external" problems in his life to account for his lack of interest in exercise and sports. He may be substituting whatever he feels that he is missing, with food.

    The doctor did take blood during our visit to check his thyroid and for diabetes.

    I understand where you're coming from because I was in a competitive sport for 10 years and loved it, but not all kids, even all boys, are interested in sports. He's intelligent, gets excellent grades, takes honor and AP classes, has never been in trouble and enjoys computer games and has even made some money from the instructional videos he makes. He's just more interested in learning and computers than sports.
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member
    Honestly, set him up with the MFP numbers at least at first until you and him can do some research and understand this stuff better. I have lost 111 pounds just following MFP. Also change Doctors.

    Congrats on your weight loss!!

    I did and he is at 2250 (i think). He was actually agreeable once I set it up and showed it to him. We went to Subway for lunch today though and this is just one example of the type of choices he makes with food. We checked the calories for various items before we got there, yet he still order a foot long spicy Italian (960 calories) and a double chocolate chip cookie (210 calories). His attitude was that he still had plenty of calories left for the day. I guess it's better than before, he used to order two cookies. And no, we don't eat out very often, about once a week.

    His doctor did refer him to a specialist so we'll see what he has to say.
  • averytds
    averytds Posts: 64 Member
    May or may not be useful, but my teen DS sounds similar. He usually slims down a fair bit during football season, but isn't interested in any other sports activities. I'm afraid he's considering dropping football in part because being so out of shape at the beginning of each season makes practices even harder than they have to be.


    I haven't gone the route of MFP for him yet, but am making all around better choices for the whole family since I'm using MFP for myself.

    He does online schooling part of the day and has some pc games he likes, so I went the treadmill desk route (aka shelf across support bars w/laptop & mouse). He does off/on with his schoolwork depending on what he's working on, but all gaming time is being done while walking. My kids are all chomping at the bit to use it so much, I may need another.

    I'm almost to my 2nd hour on it today as I type this! It goes really fast and you're up and moving when you would normally be parked somewhere.
  • christianteach
    christianteach Posts: 595 Member

    He does online schooling part of the day and has some pc games he likes, so I went the treadmill desk route (aka shelf across support bars w/laptop & mouse). He does off/on with his schoolwork depending on what he's working on, but all gaming time is being done while walking. My kids are all chomping at the bit to use it so much, I may need another.

    What a great idea!!! It wouldn't work in our case though, because he has a gaming desk top, gaming keyboard and gaming mouse and large HD monitor. We couldn't secure it like you can a laptop and it's not like we could just let him use my laptop to play games on, they require the type of computer he has. I do love that idea though. He used to like to run on a treadmill, we're hoping he picks it back up again.