I never see this mentioned, but how about slow metabolisms?

Francl27 · March 2013

Since I started this site, I've seen a lot of talk about your TDE and all that technical stuff, and I get the basics. The thing I don't get though, is how everything is calculated as if we were the same... but obviously we don't all have the same metabolism, and I'm guessing if we're here, our metabolism isn't that great.

When I did my last diet, 14 years ago, I was 20 and weighed about 162 lbs for 164cm (5'5", but really 5'4.5"). I went to see a dietician, and he had that fancy scale that told me that my standing metabolism was 1373 calories a day. From what I can tell, it's close to half what the 'normal' number is for a 162 lb person.

Ok so that was 14 years ago, and I'm now 30 lbs heavier (the diet worked wonderfully but was too restrictive so we all know the end of that story). Considering both my parents are/were overweight as well, it's safe to assume that my metabolism still isn't what the 'average' is for my size.

So why should I trust what MFP says, and assume that the deficit they give me will be enough to lose weight? Heck the mayo clinic calculator estimates that I use 1650 calories a day, while my goal on MFP to lose 1 lb a week is 1470. I've been losing, but I'm not eating my exercise calories back (which are probably anywhere between 150 and 350 calories a day, I have no idea).

Did anyone have to adjust the numbers to find something that worked for them?

LiveLife13 · March 2013

Great question--would love to see others' thoughts on this. I had my resting metabolic rate tested at our corporate wellness center (12-hour fast, breathing tool for 8 minutes, body measurements, etc) and it showed 1,176! Even lower than yours (I'm 48).

Unless I'm working out every day to burn major calories (I do cardio and weights), I'm stuck at my current weight. Now I'm adjusting my carb/protein/fat ratios to see how that impacts weigh loss--but keeping my calories out of the "starving zone". My goal is to lose 10-15 lbs, so not a huge amount--which seems to make it even harder to figure out the right mix.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane · March 2013

I'm actually going to quote CalifoniaGirl2012 because I really liked something she had previously posted on these forums.

There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.

If you plug in all your info into a calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you do not get is your exact calorie needs. It's a place to start.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

if you are gaining weight or not maintaining your desirable weight at your current activity level, then you are overeating.

glahlstedt · March 2013

My metabolism is dead~I swear! it has taken me almost a year to lose 12lbs!!!!!!!! however, i am on antidepressants which make it very hard to lose the weight...well, at least i am trying!
ps
i have officially been off the effexor for 2 weeks now, and hoping that my body will lose some weight naturally. stay tuned....

Francl27 · March 2013

I'm actually going to quote CalifoniaGirl2012 because I really liked something she had previously posted on these forums.

There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.

If you plug in all your info into a calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you do not get is your exact calorie needs. It's a place to start.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

if you are gaining weight or not maintaining your desirable weight at your current activity level, then you are overeating.

Yeah but then why do people tell others that they have to eat more to lose, when really they might have to eat less? It's so complicated, lol.

3dogsrunning · March 2013

Since I started this site, I've seen a lot of talk about your TDE and all that technical stuff, and I get the basics. The thing I don't get though, is how everything is calculated as if we were the same... but obviously we don't all have the same metabolism, and I'm guessing if we're here, our metabolism isn't that great.
(/quote]

Everything is an estimate, it is meant as a starting place and adjust from there.

When I did my last diet, 14 years ago, I was 20 and weighed about 162 lbs for 164cm (5'5", but really 5'4.5"). I went to see a dietician, and he had that fancy scale that told me that my standing metabolism was 1373 calories a day. From what I can tell, it's close to half what the 'normal' number is for a 162 lb person.

I'm a little confused at that, was that your TDEE? That sounds normal for a BMR.

Ok so that was 14 years ago, and I'm now 30 lbs heavier (the diet worked wonderfully but was too restrictive so we all know the end of that story). Considering both my parents are/were overweight as well, it's safe to assume that my metabolism still isn't what the 'average' is for my size.

So why should I trust what MFP says, and assume that the deficit they give me will be enough to lose weight? Heck the mayo clinic calculator estimates that I use 1650 calories a day, while my goal on MFP to lose 1 lb a week is 1470. I've been losing, but I'm not eating my exercise calories back (which are probably anywhere between 150 and 350 calories a day, I have no idea).

Did anyone have to adjust the numbers to find something that worked for them?

MFP assumes you will exercise and add those calories into your daily total. There isn't a huge difference between them anyway. Like I said above, these numbers are a starting point. Pick one, try it for a month or so and adjust from there.

As for the question on the slow metabolism - there are things that can be done to improve it. Eating too little can cause issues Continuing the circle of eating less isn't always the answer. Check out this post
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/919536-get-your-metabolic-rate-tested-my-metabolic-reset-story

She actually had hers tested.and increased her RMR by eating more.

krissy_krossy · March 2013

My metabolism was WRECKED after 6 years of starving myself. You know what eventually helped get it back on track? Time and eating more. I initially gained weight, but continuing to eat too little isn't going to help it. It took over a year for things to kind of sort out, but it's better than my metabolism going at a snail's pace.

Francl27 · March 2013

That doesn't make much sense though. I was overweight. I can understand how your metabolism would slow down if you don't eat much, but that was definitely not the case.

And from what I can tell, 1373 is very low for a 20yo 162 lb female. Especially as I was standing, so I'm assuming the scale picked up my standing metabolism. The BRM for that size and weight is 1600 or something. I guess I should have it tested again to know exactly how much I should eat but I don't even know where to go for that kind of things?

freelancejouster · March 2013

I'm actually going to quote CalifoniaGirl2012 because I really liked something she had previously posted on these forums.

There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.

If you plug in all your info into a calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you do not get is your exact calorie needs. It's a place to start.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

if you are gaining weight or not maintaining your desirable weight at your current activity level, then you are overeating.

Yeah but then why do people tell others that they have to eat more to lose, when really they might have to eat less? It's so complicated, lol.

Usually, when people start trying to eat better, they think less is the correct answer. Less meaning implimenting a 1200 calorie diet, because generic websites give that as a low for women's BMR. Sure, that's less than before, but it's also not likely that anyone should be eating that daily. So that's why we tell them to up it, to figure out their TDEE, so their body gets enough to fuel itself and doesn't want to hold on to what little they're giving it.

Less than before does not mean 1200 calories, it means a slight deficit.

marykpfist · March 2013

neandermagnon · March 2013

your metabolism isn't fixed, you can change it. How fast your metabolism is (under normal circumstances) depends on how big you are, and how much of your body is lean tissue as opposed to fat (muscle cells at rest burn about 6x more calories than fat cells do, and various other organ cells burn different amounts, fat burns very little comparatively). There are some medical conditions that can slow the metabolism, e.g. hypothyroid, and in this situation medication can bring the metabolism back to where it should be (and also correct other problems that result from hypothyroid).

This is why calorie calculators are based on biometric data like height and weight (e.g. Harris Benedict) or weight and body fat percentage (e.g. Katch McArdle). these give reasonably accurate estimates, but they will not be spot on for anyone, and you often have to do a little adjusting of your numbers based on real world results.

How much exercise you do will affect how many calories you burn in a day too, the number one way to burn more, is to move around more. One of the major differences between people, is that on paper they may seem to have the same activity level, but in reality maybe one is moving more, e.g. swinging their legs, getting up and walking around etc far more than the other. Maybe one walks with more spring in their step than the other, etc. These seem like tiny, trivial differences, but over the course of a day, or a week, they add up. So on paper, they may be the same height, weight and lean body mass, they may appear to have the same activity levels (in terms of what job they do and how often they work out) but one could be constantly burning a little more calories than the other from moving around more, and over time this adds up, and the one that moves less will be said to have a slower metabolism.

You can speed up your metabolism by gaining lean body mass, because muscle cells burn more calories than fat cells at rest. Two people may be the same height, weight and activity levels, but if one has more lean mass (i.e. a lower body fat percentage) than the other, the one with more lean body mass will need quite a few more calories than the other.

Long term eating of too few calories can slow the metabolism further than can be accounted for by loss of lean body mass - this is called "adaptive thermogenesis" and in some studies has been shown to slow the metabolism by up to 30% (that figure is probably not universal though, it's likely that's the most extreme cases, while the majority it's not slowed by that much)

So often I've heard "you're lucky, you have a fast metabolism" said by a sedentary person to a much more active person.... well the difference isn't the speed of the metabolism, it's their activity levels.

My advice:

- if there's a medical reason for the metabolism being slow, (e.g. hypothyroid, taking certain medications) see a doctor, maybe medication or a change in medication can rectify the issue and result in you functioning better all round

- if the metabolism is slow due to not having so much lean body mass for your height (which is a typical result of eating too few calories for prolongued periods of time, but can also result from being very sedentary and not eating a healthy diet) - then go to they gym and lift weights, and eat healthy to put on more lean body mass

- steer totally clear of very low calorie diets, they will make a slow metabolism even slower. Instead, build up your metabolism by being more active, lifting weights and eating a decent amount of calories. If you have slowed your metabolism by doing this kind of dieting, you can speed it up again doing these things, but it takes time and you need to give your body time to adjust.

- be active, no matter how slow your metabolism is due to whatever other factors, being more active will make it faster, providing you're feeding your body well

- understand that you are not born with a metabolism that's set at a particular rate, your lifestyle choices can speed it up or slow it down. The human body is very adaptable.

neandermagnon · March 2013

I'm actually going to quote CalifoniaGirl2012 because I really liked something she had previously posted on these forums.

There is no mystery to weight loss, everyone thinks something is wrong, their metabolism is broken, they have low thyroid, they have menopause or whatever issue, they are as unique as a snowflake, whatever. I thought a lot of these things once too but once the doctor helped resolve the health issues for me I learned there is still no magic pill. Most people eat more than they need to and are not at good at estimating calories as they think they are. Most people have a lower BMR than they think they do. The only way to know for sure is to go to a lab and have it tested. It doesn't seem fair to have to eat less and feel a little hunger. It's hard to face the truth of it, very hard. It's not fun. It's drudgery at times. But if you learn to enjoy your smaller amounts of food (necessary to lose weight, since the reason we got fat in the first place was eating too much whether we knew it or not), and rejoice in your victories it can be done.

If you plug in all your info into a calculators what you get is the average metabolic rate of a group of people who share your age, sex, height and weight. What you do not get is your exact calorie needs. It's a place to start.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

if you are gaining weight or not maintaining your desirable weight at your current activity level, then you are overeating.

Yeah but then why do people tell others that they have to eat more to lose, when really they might have to eat less? It's so complicated, lol.

Usually, when people start trying to eat better, they think less is the correct answer. Less meaning implimenting a 1200 calorie diet, because generic websites give that as a low for women's BMR. Sure, that's less than before, but it's also not likely that anyone should be eating that daily. So that's why we tell them to up it, to figure out their TDEE, so their body gets enough to fuel itself and doesn't want to hold on to what little they're giving it.

Less than before does not mean 1200 calories, it means a slight deficit.

^^^ this

and to everyone who says "but surely some people need to eat less to lose weight, not more" - yes you're absolutely right. If someone needs to eat less to lose weight, their TDEE - 20% number will tell them to eat less than they're currently eating. TDEE is how many calories someone is burning in a day, 20% less is a good number for a healthy rate of fat loss for most people (the already lean would usually need a smaller deficit, more like 10% due to the increased risk of burning muscle along with the fat) - if someone is failing to lose weight because they are eating too much, i.e. more than their TDEE, then TDEE - 20% will be telling them to eat less. If they're having problems because they're eating too little, then TDEE -20% will tell them to eat more.

LadyL2012 · March 2013

It is a complete fallacy that fat people have a slow metabolism.

The fatter you are, the faster your metabolism gets to try and get rid of it. years of starvation and burning muscle instead of fat can also slow it right down.

Most people have a 'normal' metabolism. A fast and slow metabolism is extremely rare. Of course one can boost their metabolism by building muscle, exercising and eating right.

The slow metabolism fallacy has been bandied around for far too long and excuses people for an unhealthy lifestyle because they can say 'I'm fat because my metabolism is slow'.

I was taught my nutrition module at uni by the GB Olympic team nutritionists. That is where I learnt that little tidbit of information, so I trust them.

Francl27 · March 2013

It is a complete fallacy that fat people have a slow metabolism.

The fatter you are, the faster your metabolism gets to try and get rid of it. years of starvation and burning muscle instead of fat can also slow it right down.

Most people have a 'normal' metabolism. A fast and slow metabolism is extremely rare. Of course one can boost their metabolism by building muscle, exercising and eating right.

The slow metabolism fallacy has been bandied around for far too long and excuses people for an unhealthy lifestyle because they can say 'I'm fat because my metabolism is slow'.

I was taught my nutrition module at uni by the GB Olympic team nutritionists. That is where I learnt that little tidbit of information, so I trust them.

If it's a fallacy, how do you explain that overweight people tend to have overweight children (other than because they are feeding them junk and don't exercise, that is), and how do you explain that some people don't exercise at all, eat twice as much as I do, and are thin? We all know 'those people'.

I agree that activity and diet have a lot to do with it, but saying we all have a normal metabolism and that saying otherwise is a lie is pushing it.

TheRealParisLove · March 2013

I'm a strong believer that the cure for a slow metabolism is adding in vigorous exercise. When people have a "slow metabolism" this usually means that they have a high body fat percentage in relation to their lean body mass. Ergo- increase your muscle mass and you will burn more calories.

There is also the theory of brown fat (see link below), which is highly metabolically active. Some people just don't have much, others have a lot. There are theories as to how to get your brown fat more active, and thereby increase your overall metabolism. This usually involves cold therapy (putting ice packs on your body where brown fat is concentrated--chest and neck), but is semi unpleasant to experience in the winter months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_adipose_tissue

mistesh · March 2013

OP, do you snack much? Snacking keeps your blood sugar constantly elevated. Maintaining low levels of insulin allows your body to more easily tap into your stored fat for fuel. A scenario of three meals a day and a mid-afternoon snack which makes you fuller for longer boosts your metabolism. Combined with eating the right stuff, your cravings go down. The remaining question is then: do you trust yourself with sticking to real food within TDEE - 15-20% = ~1700? When cutting out junk, you can pack a lot into 1700 calories.

LadyL2012 · March 2013

It is a complete fallacy that fat people have a slow metabolism.

The fatter you are, the faster your metabolism gets to try and get rid of it. years of starvation and burning muscle instead of fat can also slow it right down.

Most people have a 'normal' metabolism. A fast and slow metabolism is extremely rare. Of course one can boost their metabolism by building muscle, exercising and eating right.

The slow metabolism fallacy has been bandied around for far too long and excuses people for an unhealthy lifestyle because they can say 'I'm fat because my metabolism is slow'.

I was taught my nutrition module at uni by the GB Olympic team nutritionists. That is where I learnt that little tidbit of information, so I trust them.

If it's a fallacy, how do you explain that overweight people tend to have overweight children (other than because they are feeding them junk and don't exercise, that is), and how do you explain that some people don't exercise at all, eat twice as much as I do, and are thin? We all know 'those people'.

I agree that activity and diet have a lot to do with it, but saying we all have a normal metabolism and that saying otherwise is a lie is pushing it.

Firstly we tend to eat like our parents, whether we realise it or not. My parents always cooked fresh, healthy homecooked food. We hardly ever had junk. But we were all fat. Portion control was the problem. When I moved out I cooked exactly the same as them. it was only when I learnt what a portion should be that I realised I was overeating. In general most of us have bad habits we don't even realise.

For sure genetics are partly to blame. I have the same tiny waist and big hips as all the women in my family and I can put on weight VERY quickly and that weight always goes to my hips, *kitten* and thighs like all the rest of the women in my family. BUT that doesn't mean I cannot win against genetics in terms of being fat. Now that i eat right and work out, I am roughly where I should be in terms of weight, i wasn't before. Plus I get the good sides of the curvy genetics!

As for the thin people that eat like horses, again this is often not the whole picture. Firstly what we eat in public and private is often quite different. When I go out to a restaurant for example, I can eat like a horse. My family therefore think i am one of those 'eat loads but it still thin' people. truth is at home I eat small portions and make good choices, I have a cheat when i go out to eat. Also you need to look at the family they come from, if they are all slim, the chances are they will have genetics on their side, which although important is not the decider to weight, but it will help them. You also don't see them 24 hours a day. they may be really active at work, they may work out more than you think etc. As we don't live with most people 24/7 we often get a inaccurate perception of their diet and fitness. often if we saw their whole lives, the size they are would make more sense. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule, but that is just one of those things. lucky them, but it's you you need to be concerned about (that's the plural you, not you personally).

WBB55 · March 2013

If it's a fallacy, how do you explain that overweight people tend to have overweight children (other than because they are feeding them junk and don't exercise, that is), and how do you explain that some people don't exercise at all, eat twice as much as I do, and are thin? We all know 'those people'.

I agree that activity and diet have a lot to do with it, but saying we all have a normal metabolism and that saying otherwise is a lie is pushing it.

Though, I do think there is a slight genetic predisposition to efficiently storing fat during a caloric surplus, people still have to be eating excess calories to get fat. If the overweight parents modeled healthy relationships with food, I think their kids would stand a greater chance of being a healthy weight. I'm the thinnest person in my family, by FAR. If it's ALL genetics, how come I was able to lose weight once I stopped eating the same way and being a lazy fat P.O.S. like the rest of my family?

I have one of "those friends" who can seemingly gorge himself and never gain weight and never "exercise". But after spending more time with him, what I realized is yes, he eats a lot when he DOES eat. But he only eats, like, once or twice a day. So he basically HAS to eat 1500-2000 at every meal. Also, on the days when he eats two big meals, if you watch closely, you can see that he has extra energy that he's burning, probably without knowing. He'll do things like pace when he's telling a story (instead of sitting down) or jump up off the couch all the time to run to some other part of the house. But when he's only been eating one meal/day for a while, he's much lazier. I don't think he even realizes how "self regulating" his caloric intake is. I don't think his metabolism is any "faster" than mine. I think he just subconsciously regulates his caloric intake better than I do. Whereas I have to track things on paper/computer to be sure I'm not overeating calories. Just my 2c.

Razzy43 · March 2013

Franc, why don't you accept the help you are being given about the various ways metabolism can vary in people? When anyone says a "slow metabolism", yes not everyone is the same some are slower then others, but it all comes down to body makeup (fat/lean muscle), calories are calories, but eating healthier calories determines what your body makeup is, etc., daily activity determines calories burnt, what your exercise routine is determines calories burned and burnt throughout the day etc. After reading this post, it seems that you want to challenge each explanation posters are giving you. What I recommend is put your info in, height/weight,age, activities, goals, etc give it a month to see where things go and start a exercise program along with it.

I was one of those people that could eat what they want and not gain weight or I wasn't fat so to speak, but what you don't realize when guys like me do eat a big meal, we don't do it every meal. Or I will say I was way more active back when I was like that, but as I have grown older and slowed down, it isn't the same. I am still not fat, but fat in my own eyes compared to what I use to be, but that is because not that my metabolism has slowed down, I have.

What I am saying is take the advice people are giving you or explanations if you need them and apply them, don't keep questioning them. These are people just like you that had doubts, but have put for the effort to overcome them doubts and know that these tools work. I hope the best for you in your efforts!!!!

Here are the facts: Total calories dictate how much weight a person gains or loses; macronutrient ratios dictate what a person gains or loses. Here is a great tool and a website full of useful information in helping you achieve what you are looking for. http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ It has helped me learn so much about getting in shape, and not about weight loss. We need to remember, this is getting in shape not about losing weight, which is a portion of it.

Mokey41 · March 2013

And from what I can tell, 1373 is very low for a 20yo 162 lb female. Especially as I was standing, so I'm assuming the scale picked up my standing metabolism.

I think the answer is right here. You don't test someone's metabolism accurately by having them stand on a scale. Sounds like Hocus Pocus medicine to me and highly unlikely it was anywhere close to correct.

Lizzy622 · March 2013

My doctor told me the solution is to exercise. Building muscle is the only thing that helps. Also get your TSH (thyriod) levels checked if you think it is more serious.

I never see this mentioned, but how about slow metabolisms?

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