High v. Low bar squats. Your opinion please

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Kirkajuice
Kirkajuice Posts: 311 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I did something to my squat form a few weeks ago and I hadn't been able to fix it alone so I asked one of the trainers at the gym to help me specifically with low bar squats.

He said he would, and then a few days later showed me high bar squats. Then told me that the bar was too low on my back. I said I was looking at more of a low bar squat and my problem was more with me leaning forwards a bit too much and I just wanted help readjusting. He said he had no idea what I was talking about, and that there's no difference between a high and low bar squat and did I want to go by what I read in a magazine or listen to him. I did try and say I didn't read it in a magazine, I was following more of a Starting Strength approach but he just ignored that.

He then told me that it didn't matter how low I went after I said I was aiming more for parallell since I do low bar than below parallell. He told me that it didn't matter how low or high my squat is because it was still a squat. I think that's about the point he started becoming p*ssy with me because I probably raised my eyebrows when he said a quarter squat still counted as a squat. I did apologise for irritating him and just did what he wanted which seemed to pacify him but it's not what I wanted at all. I just wanted him to stop getting irritated and telling me that he has 10 years of experience and that I was difficult to help if I didn't listen, and when I tried to clarify what he said he got more annoyed (I have a problem with understanding some things, I need a bit more clarity than most people).

Please tell me:

a) Is there a huge difference between high and low bar squats in your opinion?

b) Do you consider a quarter squat to be a proper squat?

c) Am I being difficult and should I just accept that what he says is correct and squat quarter/half squats with high bar since he said that I can't do what I want to do properly. I know I can't, that's why I asked for help.

d) Should I risk p*ssing him off more and go ask another trainer for help?

Replies

  • jhc7324
    jhc7324 Posts: 200 Member
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    a) Is there a huge difference between high and low bar squats in your opinion?

    b) Do you consider a quarter squat to be a proper squat?

    c) Am I being difficult and should I just accept that what he says is correct and squat quarter/half squats with high bar since he said that I can't do what I want to do properly. I know I can't, that's why I asked for help.

    d) Should I risk p*ssing him off more and go ask another trainer for help?

    a) I've never done high bar squats, so I don't really know. I think it would be more of a difference in back angle between the two (and high bar can be done with less shoulder flexibility). Other than that I'm not such an expert that I know what the differences are in terms of muscle recruiting.

    b) Again, not an expert, but no way would I consider a quarter squat a "squat". When you go low, you should be able to feel your hamstrings and glutes kick into the lift, which is what you want. I think it would have been around this point that I smiled, finished up with this trainer and moved on to finding another means of solving my problem.

    c) Well, if you really weren't sure what he was saying to you, getting clarification is fine. But it seems more like you knew that what he was telling you wasn't quite right and were questioning it. If that's the case, realize that you aren't going to get what you want from this guy, and move on.

    d) After the first trainer gave you that kind of advice, I might be more inclined to just watch other people at your gym (trainer or not) to see who is squatting properly and ask them. I definitely wouldn't worry about pissing this guy off though. The most important thing is that you get what you need, and if it rubs this guy the wrong way that's a "him" problem, not a you problem.
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
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    http://70sbig.com/blog/2012/01/low-bar-vs-high-bar-squatting/

    a quarter squat is not good from what I learned unless you are focusing on big quads, I prefer balanced quads and hamstrings.

    get another trainer, maybe one certified with USA weightlifting (olympic weightlifting) or whatever country you are in.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    A- YES.
    The position can throw off your center of gravity and cause you to pitch forward (if you pitch forward you start getting into good morning territory- so short answer YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

    now YMMV- some people simply are not comfortable doing a low bar squat- meaning you can't get the bar resting comfortably on that trap/deltoid musculature. I'm personally working on this (I just started bar squatting again in like 5 years LOL- I'm REALLY big on freeweights)

    anyway- I used to be a high bar squatter- and I wanted to try to go for a low bar- to see if it would help me improve my range of motion. It was so awkward and uncomfortable the first time- I'm not sure I'll stick with it- but you might need to play around with it to find what works for you that allows you to keep your back nice and flat.

    B- I wouldn't not consider it a proper squat no.
    I only recommend going 1/4 of the way down if you are physically incapable of going to parallel or lower. Starting at YOUR fitness level is crucial. If you really cannot get parallel or full- and 1/4 is all you have- I really would recommend the leg press- you can work through that range of motion.

    The thing about doing a 1/4 squat is that you never get to work the range of motion that needs the work- so its kind of a moot point- it works okay- with free weight/light weight- but again- I wouldn't recommend it.

    C. never just accept what someone says- ask questions- be pesky- do your research.
    Continue to question- I can understand (A LITTLE) why someone would get pissy- if you aren't paying for training- you are potentially costing him money. If you ARE paying for training- and he won't answer your questions- get a new trainer. You're paying for a product- you should be satisfied with your product and if you aren't change it.

    D. find someone who IS willing to help you.

    E. find mark rippletoe's video on squats- it's like 15 minutes long- will talk to you about using the sled press and all that range of motion gobbledy gook I just told you.

    Keep working it- things that get worked on- get better. :)
  • oldernotwiser
    oldernotwiser Posts: 175 Member
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    A quarter squat will work quads but not hamstrings. That will create an imbalance which could lead to knee injuries. Ask your trainer if he has ever heard of Mark Rippetoe or Reg Park.
  • Kirkajuice
    Kirkajuice Posts: 311 Member
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    I have been watching other people at the gym, I'm there in the mornings but most seem to either use the smith machine or do high bar squats. My boyfriend is the only one there who does low bar as far as I've seen and he's not sure how to help me.

    I try my best to get parallell with the squat, but it's causing me to pitch really far forwards, that's what I needed help with. I do not want to just be one of those people who shoves a ton of plates on the bar and just bobs up and down a bit. I don't have problems with my range of motion which is probably why I raised my eyebrows at him when he said I could just do quarter squats.

    I did go up to the reception with the intention of booking a personal training session. I asked specifically for a personal training session to help with low bar squats and he volunteered himself to help for no charge. My boyfriend wanted me to go ask for a specific person for that session but the other guy just volunteered before I got that far. I just assumed because I'd said low bar that he understood what I wanted rather than he ignored it and didn't realise what I wanted.

    Boyfriend has already insisted I watch Rippetoe's video and read his low bar squat theory, which I'm going to be doing tomorrow.

    Boyfriend is also going to go ask the trainer that he wanted to help me for his opinion because he was listening to the whole thing from the next rack and is annoyed with the trainer himself.
  • Kirkajuice
    Kirkajuice Posts: 311 Member
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    A quarter squat will work quads but not hamstrings. That will create an imbalance which could lead to knee injuries. Ask your trainer if he has ever heard of Mark Rippetoe or Reg Park.

    No he hasn't, Rippetoe was mentioned specifically, then the trainer kept referring to him/the technique as a magazine article. As though I'd just read a magazine and decided that I was going to do that. I'm 99% sure he didn't know who Rippetoe is.
  • stormsusmc
    stormsusmc Posts: 228 Member
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    Do variations honestly.

    *kitten* to grass
    High bar
    Low Bar
    Half
    Wide and narrow stance
    Heels elevated....

    Throw in good mornings and wide stance deadlifts as well
  • Kirkajuice
    Kirkajuice Posts: 311 Member
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    Do variations honestly.

    *kitten* to grass
    High bar
    Low Bar
    Half
    Wide and narrow stance
    Heels elevated....

    Throw in good mornings and wide stance deadlifts as well

    I already do good mornings, and my DL's are probably a slightly wider stance than normal because if my feet are too close together then my knees try to buckle inwards.

    Variations are a good idea but I'd still need help with the low bar variation since he didn't help with that at all.
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
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    I started doing lowbar squats about a month ago. I alternate highbar and lowbar each set. At first they were a little uncomfortable but once I worked on my shoulder flexibility, the low bar squat became comfortable. You will lean fwd slightly more with a lowbar but not like a goodmorning. Lowbar hits the hamstring and glutes more than highbar.
  • Kirkajuice
    Kirkajuice Posts: 311 Member
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    I started doing lowbar squats about a month ago. I alternate highbar and lowbar each set. At first they were a little uncomfortable but once I worked on my shoulder flexibility, the low bar squat became comfortable. You will lean fwd slightly more with a lowbar but not like a goodmorning. Lowbar hits the hamstring and glutes more than highbar.

    I've been wondering if shoulder flexibility might help. I found some exercises for it so I'll give them a go. Also on a mission to find a pretend bar I can practice with at home. I wonder if I wasn't making my back tight enough so lent forwards too much to try and prevent the bar slipping.

    At least this trainer doesn't work on the mornings I do my squats.
  • Kirkajuice
    Kirkajuice Posts: 311 Member
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    Spoke to a different trainer today. He asked what happened, I told him and he suggested that the other guy was an idiot for trying to help with something he knew nothing about and getting insulted that he didn't know what the exercise was.

    Upshot is: I spent all weekend working on my form because I'd convinced myself that nobody would be able to help me. New trainer checked my form and said it was good so I no longer lean forwards too much :bigsmile: Thighs are quite sore from the practice though.

    Just got to avoid the other trainer now, I think the one who helped today went off to start gossiping with the other trainers after he helped me! :laugh:
  • GravyBrah
    GravyBrah Posts: 34 Member
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    http://thefitcoach.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/squat_bar_placement.jpg


    This is why you are leaning more forward, its body mechanics.

    You can earn a personal trainer certificate at any commercial gym with a 3 hr class, they are often some of the worst perpetuators of fitness myths and bad advice.
  • Kirkajuice
    Kirkajuice Posts: 311 Member
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    http://thefitcoach.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/squat_bar_placement.jpg


    This is why you are leaning more forward, its body mechanics.

    You can earn a personal trainer certificate at any commercial gym with a 3 hr class, they are often some of the worst perpetuators of fitness myths and bad advice.

    Picture that but with number 3 being more horizontal. It was quite a bad forward lean! Almost 90 degrees at one point :noway: All better now though! Still a lean, but the right amount :laugh:

    Bad trainer kept saying how he had 10 years of experience and never heard of a low bar squat. He is not to be trusted anymore! I imagine he'll be quite peeved when he hears that someone else helped me.
  • CoachDreesTraining
    CoachDreesTraining Posts: 223 Member
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    I did something to my squat form a few weeks ago and I hadn't been able to fix it alone so I asked one of the trainers at the gym to help me specifically with low bar squats.

    He said he would, and then a few days later showed me high bar squats. Then told me that the bar was too low on my back. I said I was looking at more of a low bar squat and my problem was more with me leaning forwards a bit too much and I just wanted help readjusting. He said he had no idea what I was talking about, and that there's no difference between a high and low bar squat and did I want to go by what I read in a magazine or listen to him. I did try and say I didn't read it in a magazine, I was following more of a Starting Strength approach but he just ignored that.

    He then told me that it didn't matter how low I went after I said I was aiming more for parallell since I do low bar than below parallell. He told me that it didn't matter how low or high my squat is because it was still a squat. I think that's about the point he started becoming p*ssy with me because I probably raised my eyebrows when he said a quarter squat still counted as a squat. I did apologise for irritating him and just did what he wanted which seemed to pacify him but it's not what I wanted at all. I just wanted him to stop getting irritated and telling me that he has 10 years of experience and that I was difficult to help if I didn't listen, and when I tried to clarify what he said he got more annoyed (I have a problem with understanding some things, I need a bit more clarity than most people).

    Please tell me:

    a) Is there a huge difference between high and low bar squats in your opinion?

    b) Do you consider a quarter squat to be a proper squat?

    c) Am I being difficult and should I just accept that what he says is correct and squat quarter/half squats with high bar since he said that I can't do what I want to do properly. I know I can't, that's why I asked for help.

    d) Should I risk p*ssing him off more and go ask another trainer for help?

    A. High bar squats are more quad dominate. Your torso will also be more upright because of where the bar is located. Low bar will hit your posterior more. It's natural to have a forward lean during a low bar squat.

    As long as you're deadlifting, I would recommend doing high bar or front squats (a little easier on the back), but low bar are fine as long as you use good form.

    B. I don't see any benefit in working only the upper half of the exercise.

    C. Chances are the trainer has never performed a squat to parallel and is using some sort of "it's bad for your knees" bro-science to justify his lack of form.

    D. Find another trainer.

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