Plant-based metabolism reset - need help with carb/pro/fat %
72MonteCarla
Posts: 169 Member
I am living a plant-based, whole foods (PBWF) life and am attempting a metabolism reset. I have customized my settings on my food diary to be 2250 cals/day (my current TDEE), 70% carbs, 15% protein, and 15% fat. I use 70/15/15 because that's the natural balance provided by a PBWF diet, as is evidenced in the diets of the healthiest populations on the planet who eat PBWF.I record my exercise in the "notes" area on my food diary instead of in the usual way so the calories earned don't get added to my target calories because my TDEE target already accounts for exercise.
My scale has a body fat analyzer on it. According to my scale at last weigh-in on 03/19/2013, I weighed 152.2 lbs and my body fat was 38.9%. I know the body fat analyzers on scales are not the most accurate, but it's what I have, so I use it. I plan to have body fat analysis by skinfold testing done before the end of my reset to get an accurate result. I am 5' 2" and 40 years old. The top end ofmy healthy BMI is 140 lbs, but I have more than 12.2 lbs of fat to lose, so my real goal weight is going to be somewhere in the middle of my healthy BMI range (105-140 lbs).
During my metabolism reset, I have put my cardio workouts (lap swimming) on hold in exchange for heavy lifting. My goal is to gain as much strength during reset so that my body will be willing to shed stored fat when I start cutting (TDEE-15%). I was prompted to do this when I realized I had lost nearly 80 lbs, but only reduced body fat by a few percentage points. I had eaten 1200 cals/day, never eating exercise calories for a long time & now know that I stalled my metabolism & am holding onto stored fat because of it. Thankfully I'm enlightened now. I will resume cardio workouts and continue strength training during cut & maintenance.
Here's my question. Should I still be targeting 70/15/15 during my reset? Healthy populations get those approximate values in their WFPB diets, but those people have never been obese (as I have been), and they don't have excessive body fat (as I do). I am wondering if perhaps I should boost protein (and maybe fat) during my reset & cut, then resume 70/15/15 once I acheive a healthy weight and body fat percentage.
I know this is very specific. Any experienced insight you can provide will be greatly appreciated.
My scale has a body fat analyzer on it. According to my scale at last weigh-in on 03/19/2013, I weighed 152.2 lbs and my body fat was 38.9%. I know the body fat analyzers on scales are not the most accurate, but it's what I have, so I use it. I plan to have body fat analysis by skinfold testing done before the end of my reset to get an accurate result. I am 5' 2" and 40 years old. The top end ofmy healthy BMI is 140 lbs, but I have more than 12.2 lbs of fat to lose, so my real goal weight is going to be somewhere in the middle of my healthy BMI range (105-140 lbs).
During my metabolism reset, I have put my cardio workouts (lap swimming) on hold in exchange for heavy lifting. My goal is to gain as much strength during reset so that my body will be willing to shed stored fat when I start cutting (TDEE-15%). I was prompted to do this when I realized I had lost nearly 80 lbs, but only reduced body fat by a few percentage points. I had eaten 1200 cals/day, never eating exercise calories for a long time & now know that I stalled my metabolism & am holding onto stored fat because of it. Thankfully I'm enlightened now. I will resume cardio workouts and continue strength training during cut & maintenance.
Here's my question. Should I still be targeting 70/15/15 during my reset? Healthy populations get those approximate values in their WFPB diets, but those people have never been obese (as I have been), and they don't have excessive body fat (as I do). I am wondering if perhaps I should boost protein (and maybe fat) during my reset & cut, then resume 70/15/15 once I acheive a healthy weight and body fat percentage.
I know this is very specific. Any experienced insight you can provide will be greatly appreciated.
1
Replies
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Hey -
Not sure I have any answer to your question but I did find your research on the 70/15/15 helpful as I was struggling to record that in my goals on MFP - I just adjusted my Carbs to 70, Fat and Protein to 15 and it does make sense given I too am WFPB. It will reflect things more accurately for me so thank you for writing this research.
I'll hunt around and see it I can find an answer to your question in the meantime - love the research we are uncovering and sharing!
Kristen1 -
In my experience, reversing what you have for your carb intake for fat tends to work better.
[the researchers in a 1956 study] put obese subjects on one of four different diets for 10 days, trying to see how different macronutrients affected fat loss. The diets all had the same calorie count—1,000 calories per day—but the composition of those calories varied: 1,000 calories of a mixed or balanced diet, 1,000 calories with 90% from carbohydrate, 1,000 calories with 90% from protein, or 1,000 calories with 90% from fat. If it were true that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, then patients should have lost roughly the same amount of weight on all four diets. Did they? No. Indeed, on the high-carbohydrate diet the patients actually gained a little weight, overall—on just 1,000 calories per day. They lost some weight on 1,000 calories per day of a balanced diet, and even more on 1,000 calories per day with 90% from protein. But overwhelmingly, patients lost the most weight on 1,000 calories per day when 90% of those calories came from fat.1 -
Hey There! As you know there are so many schools of thought out there. I am not sure if this information takes into consideration a plant based diet but is does address macros. This is the information I found on MFP when researching TDEE and BMR
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12
If you want simplified macronutrients, set Protein and Fat both to 30% using the drop down numbers.
Carbs should fill in at 40% unless you live in a wormhole and the laws of standard percentages dont apply.
This is similar to The Zone Diet in terms of macros.
If you just want to monitor your macros and custom tailor them on a daily basis, more advanced, calculate 1g protein per pound of Lean Mass(from MBF Calc) and .30-.70g Fat per pound of Lean Mass.
When monitoring your macros it's common on heavy lifting days to drop fats down to minimal, .30xlbm, and raise carbs up to fill in the remaining calories.
This can be the opposite on rest days if you low carb when you dont lift.
Some are known to go well above TDEE on lifting days and drop down below TDEE on rest days.
This is cyclical dieting in a nutshell.
To truly benefit from a FAT BURNING program you will need to have some type of resistance training.
If you are not lifting weights or doing body weight workouts, you will have a very hard time maintaining lean mass while in a caloric deficit.
I always suggest for gym goers, the Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength programs.
Both teach basic compound moves and can help catapult your strength.
I'm sure you can find many other lifting programs but do keep in mind, if you lift Minnie Mouse dumbbells youll have Minnie Mouse muscles. =D
He has this information on his page as well. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/helloitsdan0 -
In my experience, reversing what you have for your carb intake for fat tends to work better.
[the researchers in a 1956 study] put obese subjects on one of four different diets for 10 days, trying to see how different macronutrients affected fat loss. The diets all had the same calorie count—1,000 calories per day—but the composition of those calories varied: 1,000 calories of a mixed or balanced diet, 1,000 calories with 90% from carbohydrate, 1,000 calories with 90% from protein, or 1,000 calories with 90% from fat. If it were true that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, then patients should have lost roughly the same amount of weight on all four diets. Did they? No. Indeed, on the high-carbohydrate diet the patients actually gained a little weight, overall—on just 1,000 calories per day. They lost some weight on 1,000 calories per day of a balanced diet, and even more on 1,000 calories per day with 90% from protein. But overwhelmingly, patients lost the most weight on 1,000 calories per day when 90% of those calories came from fat.
Thanks for your input. I appreciate you taking the time to read my post & respond. However, I feel like this is comparing apples to oranges. I am targeting 2250 cal/day. These subjects were taking in a mere 1000.cal/day. The body will respond very differently when it is underfed, and 1000 cal/day definitely constitutes underfeeding. Also, I just can't see getting 90% or even 75% of calories from fat. Especially not based on a study that is outdated and flawed from the onset by administering too few calories. My goal is not simply to lose weight. I specifically want gain health which includes losing stored fat. That study does not address whether lean mass or fat was lost. My guess is all of the weight lost was lean mass because the calorie consumption is so low.1 -
Hey There! As you know there are so many schools of thought out there. I am not sure if this information takes into consideration a plant based diet but is does address macros. This is the information I found on MFP when researching TDEE and BMR
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12
If you want simplified macronutrients, set Protein and Fat both to 30% using the drop down numbers.
Carbs should fill in at 40% unless you live in a wormhole and the laws of standard percentages dont apply.
This is similar to The Zone Diet in terms of macros.
If you just want to monitor your macros and custom tailor them on a daily basis, more advanced, calculate 1g protein per pound of Lean Mass(from MBF Calc) and .30-.70g Fat per pound of Lean Mass.
When monitoring your macros it's common on heavy lifting days to drop fats down to minimal, .30xlbm, and raise carbs up to fill in the remaining calories.
This can be the opposite on rest days if you low carb when you dont lift.
Some are known to go well above TDEE on lifting days and drop down below TDEE on rest days.
This is cyclical dieting in a nutshell.
To truly benefit from a FAT BURNING program you will need to have some type of resistance training.
If you are not lifting weights or doing body weight workouts, you will have a very hard time maintaining lean mass while in a caloric deficit.
I always suggest for gym goers, the Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength programs.
Both teach basic compound moves and can help catapult your strength.
I'm sure you can find many other lifting programs but do keep in mind, if you lift Minnie Mouse dumbbells youll have Minnie Mouse muscles. =D
He has this information on his page as well. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/helloitsdan
Thanks, Lisa. I appreciate you sharing this. I will take it into consideration - and I'm already doing some of this including the weight lifting - but I'm hoping I can get some info that is more specific to plant-based living. The truth may well be that the information I am after does not exist. Thanks again for sharing!
1 -
Actually the least amount of lean mass was lost on the diet of 90% fat. This was just an excerpt from one study that shows more fat is lost if your body is tuned to burning fat vs glucose.
If you consume the majority of your calories from carbs, your system will be in a constant struggle to keep your blood sugar normal. This means preventing the use of stored body fat as fuel. That is all the study shows, it was not a direct comparison to your diet style. However it does prove that consuming a high level of carbohydrates does prevent weight loss due to the hormones released that try to keep your blood sugar down.
While a plant based diet is a subject of great debate, I have found it is not the best option for keeping lean mass and losing body fat.1 -
I'll hunt around and see it I can find an answer to your question in the meantime - love the research we are uncovering and sharing!
Me too! And ditto... If I learn it, I will share it. In the meantime I will stay the course (70/15/15) and see how it goes. What's the worst that could possible happen? Maybe I'll get that skinfold test sooner than later so I can document my experiences more accurately. Thanks!!0 -
I'll hunt around and see it I can find an answer to your question in the meantime - love the research we are uncovering and sharing!
Me too! And ditto... If I learn it, I will share it. In the meantime I will stay the course (70/15/15) and see how it goes. What's the worst that could possible happen? Maybe I'll get that skinfold test sooner than later so I can document my experiences more accurately. Thanks!!
Only consuming 15% of your calories from fat will likely leave you feeling hungry and depressed. I am not going to say you shouldn't try it, after all N=1 experiments are worth it.
There are far more documented problems with consuming a low fat diet than you might expect.0 -
Actually the least amount of lean mass was lost on the diet of 90% fat. This was just an excerpt from one study that shows more fat is lost if your body is tuned to burning fat vs glucose.
If you consume the majority of your calories from carbs, your system will be in a constant struggle to keep your blood sugar normal. This means preventing the use of stored body fat as fuel. That is all the study shows, it was not a direct comparison to your diet style. However it does prove that consuming a high level of carbohydrates does prevent weight loss due to the hormones released that try to keep your blood sugar down.
OK, that make sense. However - and you touched on this - when eating plant-based, whole foods, the foods, including carbohydrates, intrinsically have a low glycemic index. There is a huge difference between the way processed grain/extracted sugar carbohydrates and whole grains/whole fruits carbohydrates affect blood sugar. A plant-based, whole foods diet does not promote the produciton of insulin the way processed carbohydrates do.
Thanks for expounding upon your original post. I truly appreciate it!1 -
I'll hunt around and see it I can find an answer to your question in the meantime - love the research we are uncovering and sharing!
Me too! And ditto... If I learn it, I will share it. In the meantime I will stay the course (70/15/15) and see how it goes. What's the worst that could possible happen? Maybe I'll get that skinfold test sooner than later so I can document my experiences more accurately. Thanks!!
Only consuming 15% of your calories from fat will likely leave you feeling hungry and depressed. I am not going to say you shouldn't try it, after all N=1 experiments are worth it.
There are far more documented problems with consuming a low fat diet than you might expect.
I believe this is true in calorie-restricted diets. But I am targeting 2250 calories/day, so 15% fat is approxinately comparable to 30% fat on a 1200 cal/day diet.
That's it. I'll have do the skinfold test as soon as I can. And then again at regular intervals so I can be sure I'm shedding stored fat. If I'm not, then I'll switch it up. We people do too much testing on animals. Time for me to be the "lab rat". 1 -
For the record, I am anything but hungry. And I'm certainly not depressed. :laugh:1
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You are absolutely right about that. Based on what I know, it is important to reduce the chemicals in your body that mess with the absorption of nutrients and your own hormones. Everyone has different tolerances. However consuming more fat than any other macronutrient has proven to be the most helpful in regulating peoples health. Specifically monounsaturated and saturated fats. Polyunsaturated fats cause inflammation and damage to the artery walls in large quantities, and trans-fats are justly labeled as hazardous. However try this, add a large portion of good fat to your veggies (such as butter from grass fed cows), and consume green leafy veggies as your primary source of plants.1
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You are absolutely right about that. Based on what I know, it is important to reduce the chemicals in your body that mess with the absorption of nutrients and your own hormones. Everyone has different tolerances. However consuming more fat than any other macronutrient has proven to be the most helpful in regulating peoples health. Specifically monounsaturated and saturated fats. Polyunsaturated fats cause inflammation and damage to the artery walls in large quantities, and trans-fats are justly labeled as hazardous. However try this, add a large portion of good fat to your veggies (such as butter from grass fed cows), and consume green leafy veggies as your primary source of plants.
I do not consume any animal prducts including dairy and I don't eat any oil - not even plant-based. I do eat lots of leafy greens. I top them with a delicious homemade avocado dressing. I also eat seeds & nuts. All are healthy and delicious sources of plant-based fat. Thanks again for your input. I love to learn!1 -
I think you are pretty awesome for trying a metabolism reset. I have thought about it, but eating more calories makes me nervous. I have started to increase in small increments. I too am working on WFPB diet. I am still a bit transitioning, but I am mostly happy with where I am. Such a journey! I love to hear what other people are doing. Thank you so much for sharing! 1
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