Extra scoop in morning shake? Extra protein? Think again!

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nategr
nategr Posts: 12
in Food and Nutrition
I just came across a very interesting article about the absorption of whey protein. I don't regularly browse these forums and haven't seen anything on this topic; I do, however, regularly see and hear people preaching "More protein! More more more!" "Extra scoop in the morning shake? No way! Add 4!"

So I hope this will be a benefit to many or hopefully a few people out there.

Research Review: Protein Supplements - Are You Absorbing them?
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/rr-whey-too-much


If you don't like to read or just don't have the time, the basics are as follows:

The average person can absorb 8-10g whey protein per hour.

Viscous liquids (thick shakes, smoothies etc.) take ~1.5 hours to fully travel through the small intestine where they are no longer absorbed.

At 10g protein digested per hour x 1.5 hours that's 15g protein absorbed. And the other 18g whey of that 33g whey protein shake you just made? Down the drain, literally.

Solution? Up the time it takes for that shake to pass through your small intestine: add granola, oats, or something fibrous to slow down the transit. Or simply make smaller shakes and drink them an hour apart! Make the most out of your expensive protein powder and bulk up easier while saving money!

Cheers

Replies

  • djames92
    djames92 Posts: 990 Member
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    ehh im doin good with my double scoop protein shakes
  • nategr
    nategr Posts: 12
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    ehh im doin good with my double scoop protein shakes

    Take a peek at that article. This is educational, not a crack at anyone who likes their huge protein shakes. If you could **physiologically** get more protein from drinking 2 shakes, an hour apart, instead of one big one, would you not agree that would be the smart thing to do?
  • merinabullock
    merinabullock Posts: 9
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    Meh, I just read this piece on nutrition myths:

    Mike T Nelson-

    The myth that you can only use 30 grams of protein at once does not seem to die easily. Despite multiple shots to the head, it is like a Zombie coming back from the dead routinely.

    Let’s speculate that you can NOT use more than 30 grams of protein at once, just for fun. You and your buddies go to a nice steak house and you order up a nice 12 oz porterhouse steak which clocks in around 80 grams of protein. You are a bad *kitten* dude who likes his steak, so you man up and eat all of it at once as you high five your buddies upon your man vs. food completion. If you can only use 30 grams, where does the other 50 grams go? Do you see a huge steak-looking poo in the toilet the next day? Seriously, where did it go?

    It is a total myth that you can only “use” 30 grams of protein at once. I believe the confusion aries when we look at protein intake and muscle growth. It is true that the muscle building response (measured acutely as muscle protein synthesis aka MPS) will max out around 20 grams of a whole intact protein such as egg (Moore DR et al.2009). In that study, there was no statistical difference in the 20 gram vs. the 40 gram group when looking at MPS. The extra protein was oxidized (used) by the body and did not contribute to an increased rate of MPS. However, another study by Yang et al. in 2012 showed that 40 grams of whey was better than 20 grams in an older population; so age may be a factor.

    This makes sense when we look at the real world too. If eating 2xs more protein resulted in 2xs the muscle growth, you can bet I would be upping my protein intake tomorrow, along with many dude brahs everywhere. But it does not work that way since the muscle growth response to protein intake is not linear and at results in diminishing returns over time.

    Protein response over time

    Adding in 2xs more protein will not result in 2xs the muscle growth, but this does not mean your body can’t use more than 30 grams at once. Protein is essential and serves many other functions in the body other than just making your muscles bigger. Being able to only use 30 grams at once is a total myth, so order up a big slab of dead cow and enjoy.

    References:

    Yang Y, Breen L, Burd NA, Hector AJ, Churchward-Venne TA, Josse AR, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Resistance exercise enhances myofibrillar protein synthesis with graded intakes of whey protein in older men. Br J Nutr. 2012 Nov 28;108(10):1780-8. doi: 10.1017/S0007114511007422. Epub 2012 Feb 7.

    Moore DR, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men.Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;89(1):161-8. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.2008.26401. Epub 2008 Dec 3.
  • nategr
    nategr Posts: 12
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    Meh, I just read this piece on nutrition myths:

    Mike T Nelson-

    The myth that you can only use 30 grams of protein at once does not seem to die easily. Despite multiple shots to the head, it is like a Zombie coming back from the dead routinely.

    Let’s speculate that you can NOT use more than 30 grams of protein at once, just for fun. You and your buddies go to a nice steak house and you order up a nice 12 oz porterhouse steak which clocks in around 80 grams of protein. You are a bad *kitten* dude who likes his steak, so you man up and eat all of it at once as you high five your buddies upon your man vs. food completion. If you can only use 30 grams, where does the other 50 grams go? Do you see a huge steak-looking poo in the toilet the next day? Seriously, where did it go?

    It is a total myth that you can only “use” 30 grams of protein at once. I believe the confusion aries when we look at protein intake and muscle growth. It is true that the muscle building response (measured acutely as muscle protein synthesis aka MPS) will max out around 20 grams of a whole intact protein such as egg (Moore DR et al.2009). In that study, there was no statistical difference in the 20 gram vs. the 40 gram group when looking at MPS. The extra protein was oxidized (used) by the body and did not contribute to an increased rate of MPS. However, another study by Yang et al. in 2012 showed that 40 grams of whey was better than 20 grams in an older population; so age may be a factor.

    This makes sense when we look at the real world too. If eating 2xs more protein resulted in 2xs the muscle growth, you can bet I would be upping my protein intake tomorrow, along with many dude brahs everywhere. But it does not work that way since the muscle growth response to protein intake is not linear and at results in diminishing returns over time.

    Protein response over time

    Adding in 2xs more protein will not result in 2xs the muscle growth, but this does not mean your body can’t use more than 30 grams at once. Protein is essential and serves many other functions in the body other than just making your muscles bigger. Being able to only use 30 grams at once is a total myth, so order up a big slab of dead cow and enjoy.

    References:

    Yang Y, Breen L, Burd NA, Hector AJ, Churchward-Venne TA, Josse AR, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Resistance exercise enhances myofibrillar protein synthesis with graded intakes of whey protein in older men. Br J Nutr. 2012 Nov 28;108(10):1780-8. doi: 10.1017/S0007114511007422. Epub 2012 Feb 7.

    Moore DR, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men.Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;89(1):161-8. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.2008.26401. Epub 2008 Dec 3.

    Hey Merina, thx for your response. The link I cited however is only dealing with Whey Protein Isolates in supplements and particularly viscous shakes etc. It is very true that yes, the body can continually break down and absorb more (and nearly all) of the protein from a nice, tender, juicy rib-eye.

    One of the solutions the author actually recommends is simply adding granola or a large scoop of oats to your shakes to increase the viscosity and therefore the time in which the whey protein can be absorbed while passing through.

    Cheers
  • merinabullock
    merinabullock Posts: 9
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    Alright I'm game. Tomorrow I'll mix my rolled oats with my shake. So following this logic, soaking the oats the shake, say overnight would further increase absorption no?
  • ryry_
    ryry_ Posts: 4,966 Member
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    Precision Nutrition is founded by John Berardi, one of the greatest myth perpetrators the world has ever known.

    6 small meals a day, Protein and carbs and Protein and Fats but never all three together. CLean eating makes you lose weight, etc.

    I will take anything from his site with a grain of salt. Also, I believe the whole concept of nitrogen balance was studied and found to not be predictive of muscle growth. I would have to look up the study though.

    Just my take.
  • Joehenny
    Joehenny Posts: 1,222 Member
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    This is bull and not peer-reviewed. Your body is synthesizing protein constantly throughout the day, and food digestion takes awhile, it is well accepted that meal timing as far as protein is almost irrelevant .

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5 <---Peer reviewed article
  • spikeithard
    spikeithard Posts: 89 Member
    Options
    I just came across a very interesting article about the absorption of whey protein. I don't regularly browse these forums and haven't seen anything on this topic; I do, however, regularly see and hear people preaching "More protein! More more more!" "Extra scoop in the morning shake? No way! Add 4!"

    So I hope this will be a benefit to many or hopefully a few people out there.

    Research Review: Protein Supplements - Are You Absorbing them?
    http://www.precisionnutrition.com/rr-whey-too-much


    If you don't like to read or just don't have the time, the basics are as follows:

    The average person can absorb 8-10g whey protein per hour.

    Viscous liquids (thick shakes, smoothies etc.) take ~1.5 hours to fully travel through the small intestine where they are no longer absorbed.

    At 10g protein digested per hour x 1.5 hours that's 15g protein absorbed. And the other 18g whey of that 33g whey protein shake you just made? Down the drain, literally.

    Solution? Up the time it takes for that shake to pass through your small intestine: add granola, oats, or something fibrous to slow down the transit. Or simply make smaller shakes and drink them an hour apart! Make the most out of your expensive protein powder and bulk up easier while saving money!

    Cheers

    BS.. again.. BS
  • spikeithard
    spikeithard Posts: 89 Member
    Options
    This is bull and not peer-reviewed. Your body is synthesizing protein constantly throughout the day, and food digestion takes awhile, it is well accepted that meal timing as far as protein is almost irrelevant .

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5 <---Peer reviewed article

    ^^^THIS
  • ashiggins
    ashiggins Posts: 144 Member
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    If you didn't absorb those 18g of protein, where would they go? Of course you absorb them...if you didn't then people would have a much harder time gaining weight!
  • spikeithard
    spikeithard Posts: 89 Member
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    be pretty tough getting 200-300 grams of protein in throughout the day is 10gram doses at a time each hour ;)
  • Joehenny
    Joehenny Posts: 1,222 Member
    Options
    This is bull and not peer-reviewed. Your body is synthesizing protein constantly throughout the day, and food digestion takes awhile, it is well accepted that meal timing as far as protein is almost irrelevant .

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5 <---Peer reviewed article

    ^^^THIS

    Peer reviewed or GTFOH

    Lmao 8-10 grams an hour? I'd weigh 130 lbs then, plus you'd have to take into account the countless amount of people who now do IF and fit all their cals in a 2-8 hour eating window
  • nategr
    nategr Posts: 12
    Options
    This is bull and not peer-reviewed. Your body is synthesizing protein constantly throughout the day, and food digestion takes awhile, it is well accepted that meal timing as far as protein is almost irrelevant .

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5 <---Peer reviewed article

    ^^^THIS

    Peer reviewed or GTFOH

    Lmao 8-10 grams an hour? I'd weigh 130 lbs then, plus you'd have to take into account the countless amount of people who now do IF and fit all their cals in a 2-8 hour eating window

    Did any of you guys actually read the article or did you just read what other people have written and decided it was all BS and wanted to rant a little? I thought the article was interesting and might be of interest to some people to read. I'm not a nutritionist, and AGAIN the article was about WHEY PROTEIN ISOLATES IN NORMAL PROTEIN SHAKES. Not about how much protein the body can actually metabolize in an hour. Don't be so quick to jump on something when the original article I posted the link to has nothing to do with what you're talking about. Nor the article you linked to which focuses on post-workout anabolic windows and the effects of proteins and/or carbohydrates in the immediate time following a workout on muscle growth.
    Alright I'm game. Tomorrow I'll mix my rolled oats with my shake. So following this logic, soaking the oats the shake, say overnight would further increase absorption no?

    And thank you for being the civilized one Merina :) Yes I think that would probably help. Any fiber or added granola, oats, or fibrous fruits (ex: raspberries not bananas haha) would probably help!
  • Joehenny
    Joehenny Posts: 1,222 Member
    Options
    This is bull and not peer-reviewed. Your body is synthesizing protein constantly throughout the day, and food digestion takes awhile, it is well accepted that meal timing as far as protein is almost irrelevant .

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5 <---Peer reviewed article

    ^^^THIS

    Peer reviewed or GTFOH

    Lmao 8-10 grams an hour? I'd weigh 130 lbs then, plus you'd have to take into account the countless amount of people who now do IF and fit all their cals in a 2-8 hour eating window

    Did any of you guys actually read the article or did you just read what other people have written and decided it was all BS and wanted to rant a little? I thought the article was interesting and might be of interest to some people to read. I'm not a nutritionist, and AGAIN the article was about WHEY PROTEIN ISOLATES IN NORMAL PROTEIN SHAKES. Not about how much protein the body can actually metabolize in an hour. Don't be so quick to jump on something when the original article I posted the link to has nothing to do with what you're talking about. Nor the article you linked to which focuses on post-workout anabolic windows and the effects of proteins and/or carbohydrates in the immediate time following a workout on muscle growth.
    Alright I'm game. Tomorrow I'll mix my rolled oats with my shake. So following this logic, soaking the oats the shake, say overnight would further increase absorption no?

    And thank you for being the civilized one Merina :) Yes I think that would probably help. Any fiber or added granola, oats, or fibrous fruits (ex: raspberries not bananas haha) would probably help!

    Sorry for jumping on you guy.
  • nategr
    nategr Posts: 12
    Options
    Did any of you guys actually read the article or did you just read what other people have written and decided it was all BS and wanted to rant a little? I thought the article was interesting and might be of interest to some people to read. I'm not a nutritionist, and AGAIN the article was about WHEY PROTEIN ISOLATES IN NORMAL PROTEIN SHAKES. Not about how much protein the body can actually metabolize in an hour. Don't be so quick to jump on something when the original article I posted the link to has nothing to do with what you're talking about. Nor the article you linked to which focuses on post-workout anabolic windows and the effects of proteins and/or carbohydrates in the immediate time following a workout on muscle growth.
    Alright I'm game. Tomorrow I'll mix my rolled oats with my shake. So following this logic, soaking the oats the shake, say overnight would further increase absorption no?

    And thank you for being the civilized one Merina :) Yes I think that would probably help. Any fiber or added granola, oats, or fibrous fruits (ex: raspberries not bananas haha) would probably help!

    Sorry for jumping on you guy.

    Hey no worries man I didn't take it personally, I'll admit was getting a little passive aggression out in my last comment anyways haha. If you don't mind me asking, what does your workout routine look like to maintain the shape you're in? And/or how long did it take you to get there? I can see my oblique lines and my top two abs coming through but I don't know what a realistic time frame is to expect the rest of em ya know?

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