Why hasn't the entire world..
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Yeah, that's fine, but those who don't care don't have to read it, I just want a CHOICE.
you do have a CHOICE. you chose to eat out, you chose to go to that particular restaurant. i like having access to the nutritional information (either at the site on one the web) but yet i do not feel that the entire world has to cater to my every whim
if you're so serious about knowing what you put into your body you have the option of buying all your own raw ingredients and cooking your own foods. or only frequent the restaurants that give you the info you want.
Totally this! I am the retired chef/ owner of a small catering company/ restaurant. I actually did this for my base catering and restaurant menus and got asked for the info a total of 1/2 dozen times in 8 years!! As a small business owner battling to stay alive everyday and working crazy amounts of hours, why would I devote my time to this as opposed to things that improved business performance and kept people employed.
This really smacks of the "ME" generation where everyone want every little thing they want when they want it. Seriously. Get over yourself. If you feel the need to be that OCD about calories when you go out to eat, only go to places that give you that info. Don't put your expectations on some small business owner to make sure life is perfect for you.
Personally, I don't really worry about it. But, then I don't go out to eat so frequently that it matters. If you are going out to eat that much, maybe you should be thankful that you have the means to do that instead complaining about a lack of nutritional info on menus??0 -
Eating out a couple of times a month in a restaurant didn't make me fat so I'm not that worried if they have calories listed or not. I go out to eat amazing food in great surroundings and I decided back at the start that I wouldn't get too hung up on whether the chef put one splash of cream or two in the sauce. It's a treat and I'll go light the day before and after to balance it out and log thecalories as best I can.
Here in the UK they keep mentioning the idea of compulsory calorie counts on menus but I think they are a long way from making it law though some independent restaurants do put 'healthy choice' markers on the menu in the same way you'd see vegetarian options highlighted.
With regard to portion sizes in restaurants - I've found over the years the more expensive the meal, the less you get on your plate
Great attitude!! Did anyone who is overweight here really get that way by eating a couple hundred extra calories 2x per month? I don't think so.......:noway:0 -
*shrugs*
You know what is good for you and what isnt. If you think McDonalds is "healthy" then clearly there is something weird going on with you to begin with.
I
YOU 0 -
I actually agree, in that restaurants should have the nutritional information to hand if requested, not necessarily on the menu. Most large/franchised companys do now i.e. Macdonalds, Subway, Wetherspoons.
If i know im going out Ill look online for the menu and from there the nutritional information now, i dont mind doing that for now0 -
Honestly, though, how hard WOULD it be?
Most restaurants SHOULD have some sort of portioning system in place anyway. You'd just have to measure out the portions once to know what the calorie count/macros are for each dish assuming that your restaurant employees follow the proper portion sizes when cooking the meals.
Certainly there is a portioning system, but for example when you make sauces/ marinades from scratch there are potentially a dozen or more ingredients in each sauce or marinade of which there are probably a dozen. Not to mention when a restaurant makes a sauce they are making a huge portion to serve a large number of people over the next few days. Depending on who is making the meal different amounts of sauce are used. Proteins are marinated for different periods of time. While there is a recipe, if it doesn't look "right" additional ingredients will be added. Also, who is going to calculate all of this? The chefs? The servers? the managers? None of whom have experience with measuring caloric content? A food scientist would have to be hired, which most restaurants (aside from large corporations) don't have the money to pay for. Of course it would be NICE to see calories at my favorite local restaurant but it is not something is going to happen any time soon.
A food scientist, really? Am I, then, a food scientist when I create a recipe on the MyFitnessPal app by adding each individual item?
Yes, nutritional information can be skewed by all of the things you mentioned. But if big chains can do it, certainly mom & pop restaurants can do it too. How hard is it to measure calorie content if you have a food scale and thousands of books on the market telling you how to measure calories?
If a restaurant is making their own sauces, they should, by right, be creating the sauce the same every time by using a recipe with the portion sizes. Of course it will be slightly skewed depending if they have a lazy chef that creates it but if they hire proper employees, everything should be portioned the same way every time.0 -
Because why would you want to pay for using a calorimeter unless there is a law that requires you to?0
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I'm kind of blown away by how many people actually seem to think that this wouldn't be a helpful, nice thing for restaurants to do. It's not like anyone's saying they should be legislated to do this. It would just be awesome if they did. How can you argue with that?
Well, in the U.S. you would have to have a team of scientists and lawyers on staff - for when you misrepresent something accidentally. Once you put it in writing, you better be prepared to back it up. That makes it much more feasible for companies like McDonalds, Subway, Taco Bell etc. Also, those restaurants have stricter portion control - they have to when they only charge two bucks for food.
Sure, it would be helpful...to one out of ten customers. Until it becomes something that the majority of customers demand (which will never happen) it doesn't make any business sense. Eating at a restaurant should be a stress free, enjoyable experience. If it isn't, you're doing it wrong. In that case, eat at home.
I call BS,
You don't need a team of scientists. I can show you this really cool program called called My Fitness Pal that is free and calculates calories when you enter a recipe, it only takes a minute and you don't need scientists.
You don't need lawyers either to handle nutritional information issues, at least not any more so than any other legal issue an organization would run into. Maybe I am wrong here, but I haven't heard of any cases where restaurants are sued for what they display for nutritional information.
You are right about the demand to a degree, not everyone cares what they eat, and that is why not every restaraunt tells you the nutritional info of thier food. However, there is some demand obviously and i suspect it is higher than 1 out of 10 and is growing. Maybe you don't care what you eat either, but would you also go shopping and disregard the price tags, go to the check out, close your eyes and just hand them your credit card?
Not sure why you think there is no business sense, some people like healthier food, so providing nutritional information caters to this demographic and will help bring in more business, in fact many companies recognize the competitive advantage. Sure to companies that only sell food deemed as 'unhealthy', then yea for them it wouldn't make much business sense. They might lose business if forced to provide the nutrition info. However, I think consumers have a right to know what they are purchasing and the loss of business is a natural by-product of giving the market what it actually wants.
Sure I could eat at home all the time, I could also make my own clothes, chop my own wood for heat, never purchase goods or services again, become Amish, etc.0 -
I, too, appreciate the nutritional info on menus and websites. Knowledge is power. If I go out to eat you can see my on my smart phone before I order checking out the stats. That is just the way I roll. However, asking everyone to list it will be a convenience we will have to pay for (prob. increase in price, etc), but I think if the public demands it, it will happen. We all may pay less for healthcare if we read the nutritional values and choose accordingly. So it would all even out.0
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A 2 second google provided one lawsuit based on nutritional information on a menu
http://rayroman.hubpages.com/hub/Applebees-Nutrition
Edit
and don't forget that as this a healthy eating / fitness / weight loss website the opinions will be off as people here are trying to eat better lose weight.0 -
I'm really surprised at the comments on this thread. Is it "attack OP day," and I didn't get the memo? Jesus.
Not sure why people on a calorie counting website would be arguing against restaurants putting nutritional information on their menus.
Yes, I know what is good for me, and I know what is bad for me. However, that menu doesn't tell me that my salmon is basically just deep fried in butter. That MATTERS. How many times do we see stories on "Eat This, Not That" and the nutritional value of some things absolutely blows us away. Salad from Wendy's 900 calories! WHAT?! To the every day citizen, they believe that is a healthy choice, and without any nutritional information, they have no way to determine that....unless they join a site like, oh, IDK, MFP. Then they begin to learn how calories can be easily hidden in foods. Likewise, people will never learn how to eat sensible without some type of guide easily provided. Who cares if this is somewhat passing on the blame for being fat onto the restaurants.....it is A FACT people are fatter than they used to be, and as a society, it should be helped/lessened.
Also, I'm quite sure when I figure out the calories in food I prepare I calculate-1 tbsp of butter, 4 oz of chicken, 1 cup of tomatoes, 1 tbsp of salt....how HARD IS THAT?!??!??!! Restaurants don't need a gamut of lawyers and scientists...that's so absurd.
Seriously, you guys are a wee bit insane today.0 -
Who's attacking the op?
Everyone is just discussing the post, it's called debating and is perfectly fine.0 -
*shrugs*
You know what is good for you and what isnt. If you think McDonalds is "healthy" then clearly there is something weird going on with you to begin with.
Fast food never made anyone fat. The overuse of it did. Fast Food IMO, does not have any obligation to put nutritional labels on anything. Enjoy in moderation. Period.
Very well said.
It only takes common sense to do this.
Pretty sure people were just fine 100's of years ago without nutritional information. (Please don't say food was healthier back then because it wasn't.)
I was with you until that last part.
Food is certainly less nutritious now and thus healthier 100 years ago. There is less protein in wheat and barley now. There are less amino acids in corn. Genetic dilution happens in food the same way it does in people.
Chicken contains more than 200 more fat today than it did 40 years ago.
Milk now contains hormones that are known carcinogens, which were not present just a few decades ago.0 -
I completely agree! If I have a meal out, I like to plan out EXACTLY what I'll have ahead of time so there's no stress and no guessing. That way I know if I can have wine, bread, butter, whatever and not awkwardly keep adding everything up in my head (or on my phone app). I can just go, eat and enjoy the company of who I'm with.
I had one meal out where I hadn't planned in advance and I kicked myself when I got home and checked the calories online. I could have made a much better choice than I did. That's when I decided to plan it all ahead of time.
I'm so serious about my weight loss at this point in time that I'll choose a restaurant that does offer nutritional info over one that doesn't - it's the only way I can accurately count my calories. That may change in the future when I'm in a maintenance phase but for now, I need to KNOW what I'm consuming.
That being said, I do appreciate that the small mom & pop restaurants may not have the ability to offer nutritional info available to their patrons - I just have to avoid them for the time being unless I'm POSITIVE I can record what I'll have.0 -
do u believe in food labels at the super market? or do u think its not the food makers responsibility? thxIf i go out to out to eat I already have it in my head what I may want so I just look up the nutritional values online and take the best guess. Honestly it not the restaurant responsibility anyway. And if i go out spur of the moment i just eat part and take home the rest
same here0 -
I don't care either way. I haven't counted calories in two years (this site is actually called myFITNESSpal so I use it to log and track progress in my strength and endurance). I understand why people would want the info on menus but most of it is available on the inernet...shouldn't that be good enough. It isn't like they are keeping the amount of calories a secret. You just might have to look up the calories for yourself. As for mom and pop places... in the economy today small businesses are fighting to keep the doors open. I don't think they give a flying flip whether or not your food diary is complete. I think they are more worried about important things like paying expenses, paying payroll and keeping their employees employed. The op sounds a little too "it's all about me" for my taste.0
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Who's attacking the op?
Everyone is just discussing the post, it's called debating and is perfectly fine.
Not talking about just this thread. I did say "attack OP day," not "attack this OP day."0 -
You may say that most of the world or in my case the US isn't on a diet.... Here 35.7% of all people are obese, so maybe they should be on a diet xD0
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in ny its mandatory. it shocks me when i go out of state to a restaurant and i dont know what im putting in my body.I'm kind of blown away by how many people actually seem to think that this wouldn't be a helpful, nice thing for restaurants to do. It's not like anyone's saying they should be legislated to do this. It would just be awesome if they did. How can you argue with that?
Well, in the U.S. you would have to have a team of scientists and lawyers on staff - for when you misrepresent something accidentally. Once you put it in writing, you better be prepared to back it up. That makes it much more feasible for companies like McDonalds, Subway, Taco Bell etc. Also, those restaurants have stricter portion control - they have to when they only charge two bucks for food.
Sure, it would be helpful...to one out of ten customers. Until it becomes something that the majority of customers demand (which will never happen) it doesn't make any business sense. Eating at a restaurant should be a stress free, enjoyable experience. If it isn't, you're doing it wrong. In that case, eat at home.0 -
do u believe in food labels at the super market? or do u think its not the food makers responsibility? thxIf i go out to out to eat I already have it in my head what I may want so I just look up the nutritional values online and take the best guess. Honestly it not the restaurant responsibility anyway. And if i go out spur of the moment i just eat part and take home the rest
same here
Lots of food I buy doesn't have nutritional info - fresh meat, fish and veg spring to mind.
Yes, I do think there is more than a little bit of personal responsibility. Not to mention that these days you can ask for no butter/steamed/dressing on the side, a meal would barely resemble the meal on the menu.0 -
I have to add that the mentality I am getting from some on this thread is what is wrong with this world today! "Restaurants shouldn't have to put calories on their menu because not everyone is fat, it will cost money, etc"
People are always so BLIND to other people's problems! Just because not everyone is fat is not a valid reason to not provide nutritional information on your menu. It does not HURT anyone by providing it, and it actually HELPS some. WTF!
Also, it does not cost money....if anything, it may cost a chef time to figure out the amount of ingredients he/she uses....then it can be easily plug into something as simple as an app to figure out the calories. SOMETHING THAT SIMPLE people are against. Something that would help others and society, as a whole, as we are facing the highest obesity rates ever.....seriously.
This thread has made me hate people even more. The majority of people are just selfish, and this reminds me of why idiots are against equal marriage too. People always want to deny other people things when it has NO BEARING on their own life. So what if the nutritional values are shown and you don't wish to use them as knowledge....SOOOOOOOOOOOO. Does it hurt you in any way by seeing that information? NO! Will it help someone? YES. oimgjralkjlkfjeagoikjroieagreatgrea:explode:
Over and OUT. Gotta go work out since I am yet again reminded how much some people suck at life.0 -
:laugh: Hey. You calling me insane?
Bah ha ha. Now watch. I won't get all butthurt and go calling people names over that.
And that's how we act like adults.Restaurants don't need a gamut of lawyers and scientists...that's so absurd.
Seriously, you guys are a wee bit insane today.
Restaurants need lawyers and scientists about as much as we NEED nutrition info on a menu. If you've logged food for a month, you know enough about it to eat at a restaurant. Not everything has to be so controlled and regimented.
My point is stop stressing over every little calorie. It's so unnecessary.0 -
Again - the lawsuits have already started and it does cost time and money especially for little mom and pop restaurants that are already struggling.
Chefs work insane hours - and you want them to do MORE work. Just for you - nope that's not selfish or blind to other peoples problems.0 -
we own and operate a small restaurant, our menu changes every day... there really are not enough minutes in the day to run our restaurant AND get nutritional info on the menu or anywhere- the thought of taking the time to do that- no matter how beneficial and helpful it would be to some of our customers- makes my head explode.
for example, one dish can have 10 componants in it, and each componant can have multiple ingredients in it, then you have to guesstimate on portion size, which will never be exactly the same for each plate... and then multiply that by the 20 or so dishes on the menu, revolving and changing every day- we would have to hire someone to come in and manage the nutritional info and we can't afford that.
restaurants (mom & pop) make food that is right at the very height of salt, fat, sweet- things that people want to go get and not have to make at home. salt, fat and sweet make things taste delicious!! it is a treat- a special occasion- and i mean, sometimes you have to just enjoy life and enjoy the plate of food put in front of you. if you choose not to participate in that, you can choose to stay home, or to pick a restaurant that can accomodate your need for nutritional info, or ask the kitchen to make you a very plain meal that is not listed on the menu, or choose a menu item that you can figure out with your own knowledge would be better for you (spinach salad dressing on side vs. any fried food).
if a restaurant is a chain, and they have exact portion size info, ingredients always all the same in a dish that never changes- i think it is valuable for that info to be available on their website- not on the menu though. it isn't fair to the restaurant. now, i say that and i also think that is bogus- because no one should really be serving a person 3500 calories in a single appetizer- and there are chains where all choices are above any reasonable amount a person should eat at one sitting.0 -
Honestly, though, how hard WOULD it be?
Most restaurants SHOULD have some sort of portioning system in place anyway. You'd just have to measure out the portions once to know what the calorie count/macros are for each dish assuming that your restaurant employees follow the proper portion sizes when cooking the meals.
Certainly there is a portioning system, but for example when you make sauces/ marinades from scratch there are potentially a dozen or more ingredients in each sauce or marinade of which there are probably a dozen. Not to mention when a restaurant makes a sauce they are making a huge portion to serve a large number of people over the next few days. Depending on who is making the meal different amounts of sauce are used. Proteins are marinated for different periods of time. While there is a recipe, if it doesn't look "right" additional ingredients will be added. Also, who is going to calculate all of this? The chefs? The servers? the managers? None of whom have experience with measuring caloric content? A food scientist would have to be hired, which most restaurants (aside from large corporations) don't have the money to pay for. Of course it would be NICE to see calories at my favorite local restaurant but it is not something is going to happen any time soon.
A food scientist, really? Am I, then, a food scientist when I create a recipe on the MyFitnessPal app by adding each individual item?
Yes, nutritional information can be skewed by all of the things you mentioned. But if big chains can do it, certainly mom & pop restaurants can do it too. How hard is it to measure calorie content if you have a food scale and thousands of books on the market telling you how to measure calories?
If a restaurant is making their own sauces, they should, by right, be creating the sauce the same every time by using a recipe with the portion sizes. Of course it will be slightly skewed depending if they have a lazy chef that creates it but if they hire proper employees, everything should be portioned the same way every time.
No, you are not a food scientist by using MFP. However, the numbers on MFP are estimates, so making estimates out of estimates on an extremely large scale (50-150 portions rather than 2-4) would be about as good as you or I could do at estimating calories when dining out like most do now anyways. In order for the restaurant to ensure accuracy they would need someone who professionaly asseses caloric values in foods, rather than gathering a group of estimates. I'm not saying that it couldn't be done or that it would not be helpful, I am just saying there are a lot of issues that would need to be worked out in order for this to happen. Also, would there need to be a uniform system in place so that all restaurants caloric information would be assesed in the same way? I would think yes, in order for it to be effective, that alone would take a long time to develop and be accurate.0 -
we own and operate a small restaurant, our menu changes every day... there really are not enough minutes in the day to run our restaurant AND get nutritional info on the menu or anywhere- the thought of taking the time to do that- no matter how beneficial and helpful it would be to some of our customers- makes my head explode.
^^^ This is why.
Massive chains great - smaller places nope.0 -
*shrugs*
You know what is good for you and what isnt. If you think McDonalds is "healthy" then clearly there is something weird going on with you to begin with.
Fast food never made anyone fat. The overuse of it did. Fast Food IMO, does not have any obligation to put nutritional labels on anything. Enjoy in moderation. Period.
Very well said.
It only takes common sense to do this.
Pretty sure people were just fine 100's of years ago without nutritional information. (Please don't say food was healthier back then because it wasn't.)
Nobody thinks MacDonald's is a first choice for health food, but you can absolutely go there and get a reasonably nutritious meal that fits into your daily plan if you have the necessary information at hand. By your logic, anything in a health food store can be eaten without knowing the contents and you won't have to worry about the calories/macro breakdown. And we all know that's not true.
Ideology is useless in this discussion. This about having the necessary information to navigate real life more effectively. Most people here (not including the first antagonistic responder to this thread, who "doesn't care about numbers" because he's trying to *gain* more weight than most here are trying to lose) are here to manage their weight, which they will do primarily by tracking calories and sometimes also with exercise, although fitness is not actually relevant to *this topic*. There are people here who have lost weight eating most or all of the same foods they always did, only less of it because they learned how to tally it up.
People talk a lot about lifestyle choices here, and in many cases that's fine and even commendable. But in reality, *weight management* is about numbers--calories eaten and expended. And that's why the OP's frustration is completely understandable.0 -
Ideal world, there'd be separate page for nutritional information, much like on a restaurant's web page. So if I didn't want to know, I didn't have to look.
I'm not opposed to seeing the information, but I'm not interested in forcing it upon restaurants, either.
Now, I don't log most of the time I go to restaurants, because it's a special treat and I know I can't eat enough in one meal to do any "damage." But when I did, if I went to a locally owned place without info, I found something similar at a chain restaurant to log. I figured chains are notorious for large portions and high calories, so it would be a safe bet that the little Italian restaurant's lasagna isn't as high in calories as Olive Garden's. I'd log OG's as a worst case scenario.0 -
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Ideal world, there'd be separate page for nutritional information, much like on a restaurant's web page. So if I didn't want to know, I didn't have to look.
I'm not opposed to seeing the information, but I'm not interested in forcing it upon restaurants, either.
Now, I don't log most of the time I go to restaurants, because it's a special treat and I know I can't eat enough in one meal to do any "damage." But when I did, if I went to a locally owned place without info, I found something similar at a chain restaurant to log. I figured chains are notorious for large portions and high calories, so it would be a safe bet that the little Italian restaurant's lasagna isn't as high in calories as Olive Garden's. I'd log OG's as a worst case scenario.
That's kind of what I do, so far as logging non-chain restaurants.
I have been to two separate chain restaurants that offer nutrition information online but do not keep that information available at the restaurant, even by request. Most of those lists are not the kind you can easily view on a phone browser either, even if you have a signal. That shows either a resistance or lack of interest regarding making the info available to customers even once it's already been compiled. In one case, we hadn't planned to stop there but we were out and hungry, and I thought it would be ok since I'd seen some data on the website before. So much for that.
There's a lot of talk about how businesses are struggling to do X and Y, but giving customers what they want is pretty basic. I'm now going much more often to restaurants that do offer this kind of data in some form. It wouldn't bother me if restaurants of a certain size were required to provide nutrition data, but it would be preferable if they did it because they recognize the competitive advantage it could present.0 -
I love me some nutrition labels, but really, it's all just approximations and so you have to just learn to give it your best guess. If you're paying attention to caloric data when you select grocery items, it's not too big of a jump to be able to guesstimate what goes into a restaurant meal. You just have to do the thinking and the math instead of having it done for you.
And, I don't think this is about choice as much as it is about control and convenience. Ain't nobody obligated to do the math for me when I can easily sit there and take a few minutes and do it myself.
For true control, cook at home so you can personally select every ingredient and weigh and measure to your little heart's content.
With any restaurant you're giving up that measure of control in the name of being cooked for and served food instead of doing it yourself.
If you don't like that, then don't eat out.
Any more, I go to restaurants for ideas, and then I cook the same thing at home to personal taste. It's fun. 0
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