So confused -TDEE, BMR and why I am I not losing!!?

AnneU93 · April 2013

So I have read about every single post that is ever possible to find to figure out why I am not losing -including doing the in place of a road map a million times and also the metabolic reset.

I am 20 years old, female. 75 kg, 174 cm (166lbs 5'9") I am danish so if you look at my diary you will see plenty of danish words, but I ensure you that there are not a lot of processed foods in it (I like to cook myself) and that there are plenty of vegetables.

I have already gone to the doctor and the doctor said that nothing was wrong with my metabolism.

I only ever drink water -I eliminated everything else as being something you could possibly drink back in August of 2012.

I use my scale religiously to track even the littlest food that go into my mouth.

Now the thing is -I have done what I am supposed to do -> calculated my BMR wit fat2fit: as prescribed by in place of a road map 3.0

Entered information: 20 year old female, 68.5 inches tall, weighing 166 pounds, BMI of 24.9 (Normal weight).

From the information that you entered, you'd like to weigh 166 lbs.

Harris-Benedict Formula
There are a few different methods to calculating yourbasal metabolic rate (BMR). One of the most popular, developed in the early 1900's is called the Harris-Benedict formula. Based on this formula, your current BMR is 1605 calories.

Katch-McArdle Forumla
The numbers above are fairly accurate, however they don't take into account your lean body mass. A more accurate formula that does take your lean body mass into account is the Katch-McArdle formula. Since many of us have scales that will tell us our current body fat, this formula may yield more accurate results. Based on the information you provided, body fat percentage of 28.8%, you have a lean body mass of 118 lbs., and your BMR is 1529 calories.

Which makes my BMR between 1500-1600 calories.

Now how much should I eat:

Activity Level Daily Calories
Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 1926
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 2207
Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk) 2488
Very Active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk) 2769
Extremely Active (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.) 3050

I am a student and in Denmark that means sitting down in the same classroom, not moving all day and then when I come home I sit down at the computer /because I am addicted to MFP as others are to Facebook). I do exercise, but I use the Polar ft40 HRM to calculate my exercise calories and I eat those back. Therefore I would make med sedentary.

Now that gives me 1926 calories to maintain on days that I don't exercise. And to lose 1lb a week I need a deficit of 500 calories -> 1926 - 500 = 1426 -but wait this is way less than my BMR and everybody is saying that you can't eat less than your BMR, but then the math just doesn't add up.

Changing my activity level to lightly active won't make a difference cause that just means that my exercise has already been added and I would still have to net my BMR and therefore still only making my deficit 200-300 calories.

All in all the math isn't working. I haven't lost any weight (except water fluctuations) in 3 months.

Would someone just please tell me what is up and down and what to do?

Much Appreciated
Anne

teez52 · April 2013

You are perfectly fine eating less than your BMR in my opinion, I do and it is working for me without any side effects (although I fell off the wagon there for a bit during the holidays!). Sometimes it takes your body a bit to get used to what you are doing to it. Sometimes the weight doesn't come off as easy as you would like. I would highly recommend starting a lifting program, starting strength or strong lifts, as those will help you add on lean body mass and help you eat calories during the day.

The math seems right, so maybe it's time to go see a doctor and get your blood levels checked for thyroid function and things of that nature that could be causing your weightloss problems.

Also, are you weighing your food and literally tracking every little thing you put in your mouth? This includes condiments, gum, coffee, etc. If you are not, then you could be grossly underestimating how much you are eating.

AnneU93 · April 2013

You are perfectly fine eating less than your BMR in my opinion, I do and it is working for me without any side effects (although I fell off the wagon there for a bit during the holidays!). Sometimes it takes your body a bit to get used to what you are doing to it. Sometimes the weight doesn't come off as easy as you would like. I would highly recommend starting a lifting program, starting strength or strong lifts, as those will help you add on lean body mass and help you eat calories during the day.

The math seems right, so maybe it's time to go see a doctor and get your blood levels checked for thyroid function and things of that nature that could be causing your weightloss problems.

Also, are you weighing your food and literally tracking every little thing you put in your mouth? This includes condiments, gum, coffee, etc. If you are not, then you could be grossly underestimating how much you are eating.

I have already gone to the doctor and the doctor said that nothing was wrong with my metabolism.

I only ever drink water -I eliminated everything else as being something you could possibly drink back in August of 2012.

I use my scale religiously to track even the littlest food that go into my mouth.

trhops · April 2013

I was not losing by following my TDEE less a %. So I paid to have a metabolic assessment done. Turns out I have a VERY low metabolism, so I was eating too much. Online calculators show me at 1383 resting metabolic rate, when I had the test done I was only at 907. So I was overeating therefore causing my gain. That explained why I wasn't losing. Since making adjustments based on my assessment I started losing.

rduhlir · April 2013

Have you considered adding your exercise calories in to your TDEE? How often do you work out? How many calories do you burn on average? Are you taking measurements? If you are losing inches, and it looks like you are from your pictures, then it IS working. Tape trumps scale, remember that.

3dogsrunning · April 2013

What are you doing for exercise? What kind of burns are you loggin? How long have you been doing this?

My main suggestion would be to go with the TDEE method - is choose the right activity level and don't log exercise/eat them back. Try that for several weeks. If it doesn't work (take measurements and weigh) then moved down by 100-200 calories.

ETA - and you have lost 8 kgs so something is working.

2nd add - 123 goal for being 5'9 is very low.

smn76237 · April 2013

First, you said yourself you're at a normal-range weight. Meaning, you don't have a lot more weight to lose and it will be much harder for you to shed more weight. As you get closer to your goal weight, you can't sustain as large of a deficit as when you were overweight. TDEE-15% or -10% is what people change to when close to their goal weight.

What exactly are your goals? If it's more about your physical appearance and body fat %, and less about the number on the scale, I strongly suggest checking out all the posts in various forums from women posting about how lifting has improved their appearance, without losing weight. Resistance training can help you get the body you want.

Finally, if you don't already have one, invest in a food scale and measure everything. As your deficit gets smaller with less room for error, it really will help you keep your calories exactly on track.

3dogsrunning · April 2013

You are also either not logging consistently or not eating. There are a number of days in a row where you eat very little.

AmyRhubarb · April 2013

I agree with smn76237 - since the 500 deficit takes you below BMR, and you don't have heaps of weight to lose, I'd go for a percentage off of TDEE rather than the 500. Depending on your goal, 10-20% is a good place to start.

And if you're going with sedentary, make sure you eat back the exercise cals on days you workout, otherwise choose a higher activity level that best fits your average weekly activity.

If you've been following this plan consistently for a few months, have you been taking measurements? Clothes fitting any differently? I've been eating this way for over a year, and went through about six months with zero losses on the scale, but lost fat and inches and dropped a full pant size during that time.

Make sure your numbers, activity level, food portions/logging are all correct, and track your measurements.

difabu · April 2013

Maybe you have too much lean body mass to realistically get below that. Before I got a body composition analysis, I was trying to get to 150, maybe on to 140. But finding out I had 134 lbs of LBM meant that those numbers were unrealistic as they would have me between 4.5 and 11% body fat. Being 5'9", I was advised to aim for 166 and 18% BF instead.

Long story short, you may simply have too much LBM to reach such a low scale weight.

myofibril · April 2013

Take the guess work out of this and get your RMR professionally tested.

These equations have numerous outliers - you may well be one of them.

RipperSB · April 2013

Greetings Anne. After I read your post I went back into MFP's set-up and entered the numbers I had started with to see what they would recommend. I am male, 172 cm and started at 93 kg (5'8", 205 lbs). MFP calculated my BMR @ 1765. I, too, have a sedentary job (desk work, in front of a computer, mostly reviewing investigation reports) as well as sitting down after work to watch TV. Like you, I enter my exercise separately and was (mostly) eating exercise calories back, although most days if I was full and over 1200 cal, Net, I did not. Anyway, MFP gave me a cal level of 1700 cal to lose 1 lb/wk. As you can see, this was below my BMR. That was Feb 2012 and the lbs started to fall off and I reached my initial goal of 65.8 kg (145 lbs) after 243 days. There have been fluctuations but I now seemed to have settled down and have been maintaining at 64 kg since Jan 2013 with my BMR now at 1468 and a TDEE of 1840.

So, there should not be any problem eating slightly below your BMR and if you log you consumed food accurately, it will work. Take care.

honeybadgegirl · April 2013

Thanks for sharing. Do you mind discussing what they suggested you do because of your low metabolism? I have a very low metabolism as well and... I'm assuming they didnt have you eat below 900 calories, right? Did you just have to work out a lot more? Sorry... might be a dumb question.

AnneU93 · April 2013

Have you considered adding your exercise calories in to your TDEE? How often do you work out? How many calories do you burn on average? Are you taking measurements? If you are losing inches, and it looks like you are from your pictures, then it IS working. Tape trumps scale, remember that.

The pictures are old. As I wrote I haven't lost anything in 3 month only water fluctuations -I also have an expensive scale that measures Body fat%, muscle mass and water balance and weight of bones.

It is when taking exercise calories into one's TDEE that the math of not eating under one's BMR doesn't work anymore.

If I have a bmr of 1500 and I exercise 5-6 times a week, we will say that I burn 300 calories each time I would have to eat 1800 calories to net at BMR.

If I calculate the TDEE with the exercise 5-6 times a week it would say that I have a TDEE of 1800, then you would substract a percentage which many times is 15% you will get about 1500

It would be the same, only not calculating exercise into one's TDEE would be more accurate. Since jumping while boxing will more likely burn more than just jumping and the TDEE calculations do not calculate effort.

3dogsrunning · April 2013

Thanks for sharing. Do you mind discussing what they suggested you do because of your low metabolism? I have a very low metabolism as well and... I'm assuming they didnt have you eat below 900 calories, right? Did you just have to work out a lot more? Sorry... might be a dumb question.

Check out this post
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/919536-get-your-metabolic-rate-tested-my-metabolic-reset-story

AnneU93 · April 2013

What are you doing for exercise? What kind of burns are you loggin? How long have you been doing this?

My main suggestion would be to go with the TDEE method - is choose the right activity level and don't log exercise/eat them back. Try that for several weeks. If it doesn't work (take measurements and weigh) then moved down by 100-200 calories.

ETA - and you have lost 8 kgs so something is working.

2nd add - 123 goal for being 5'9 is very low.

I weighed 125lbs 2 years ago and I looked quite healthy, I was a competitive dancer and therefore I also had a lot of muscle -I have a small frame and bones don't weigh a lot. I would like to be near 123lbs, but my main goal is to be as close to 60kgs as possible or a size european 36 in jeans (jeans 28" waist size)

For exercise I alternate between Jillian Michaels, which is circuit training and weights -I use heavy weights, and Turbofire which is high intensity cardio.

I have been on MFP more than a year and only managed to lose 8 kg, which has not moved the slighest in 3 months, just water fluctuations.

3dogsrunning · April 2013

Have you considered adding your exercise calories in to your TDEE? How often do you work out? How many calories do you burn on average? Are you taking measurements? If you are losing inches, and it looks like you are from your pictures, then it IS working. Tape trumps scale, remember that.

The pictures are old. As I wrote I haven't lost anything in 3 month only water fluctuations -I also have an expensive scale that measures Body fat%, muscle mass and water balance and weight of bones.

It is when taking exercise calories into one's TDEE that the math of not eating under one's BMR doesn't work anymore.

If I have a bmr of 1500 and I exercise 5-6 times a week, we will say that I burn 300 calories each time I would have to eat 1800 calories to net at BMR.

If I calculate the TDEE with the exercise 5-6 times a week it would say that I have a TDEE of 1800, then you would substract a percentage which many times is 15% you will get about 1500

It would be the same, only not calculating exercise into one's TDEE would be more accurate. Since jumping while boxing will more likely burn more than just jumping and the TDEE calculations do not calculate effort.

I think you are confusing the TDEE method. I just re-read your OP and noticed that you eat sedentary on the days you don't exercise.
If you do TDEE you eat the same amount every day, exercise or not. You would not be eating 1926-500 because you are not sedentary.

If you chose even moderately active (which is on the lower side 3-5 times a week) that puts you at 2488, so with a 500 cal deficit you would eat 1988 everyday. Above your BMR.

You are logging 800 calorie burns although I have yet to see you eat that all back. What are you doing? It is possible your HRM is over estimating.

TDEE can still work with different effort levels box jumping will burn more calories than jumping, however it won't be considerable enough to make a big difference in success.

Also if you are already in normal range, -500 or -20% is likely too high of a goal anyway. It should be more like -250 or -10%. As I already noted your goal weight is quite low for your height. The less we have to lose the harder it becomes.

ETA - HRMs are not accurate for strength training. They are intended to estimate calories burned in steady state cardio only so even intervals (which what some of your workouts are) will be inaccurate.

AnneU93 · April 2013

I rewrote in place of a road map ver 3.

It has only been out a few weeks, so I know you're not doing it. You claim you have been doing it for 3 months...

How big is your cut 20%???

20% is not for everyone, that's what i changed in version 3. I also made a summary of IPOARM 3, here it is.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

if you're sticking to the deficit laid out... in ver 3.0 or the summary for over a month with no results, then you would cut back 10% more, try again for another month, then cut back another 10%(if you get no results again).

I do not claim to have been doing In place of a road map 3.0 for 3 months, but the "3.0" suggest that that have been previous versions which I have been doing and I have revised when the new version has come out, when I stalled 3 months ago I decided to do different things to try and break the pleateau and nothing has worked these past 3 months. That is what I have been doing the last 3 months, therefore not the 3.0, but I have calculated it and the results that I was given was the same as I had been eating at the past month or so, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, it is difficult to calculate the holidays since all foods are mixed together and made in one big portion and then divided out -not many small portions so that the calculations are correct.

Cincypsych · April 2013

Have you thought about purchasing something like a Body media? This tells me Each day how many calories I burn so I use this and eat a percentage below. Scale is moving, slowly, but moving.

Vailara · April 2013

I'm so used to doing these calculations now (trying vainly to squeeze a few extra calories out of them :laugh: ) that I noticed the calculation is slightly off. (Katch-McArdle) BMR 1529 x 1.2 (sedentary) is 1834 total. You'd then take a percentage off that, rather than 500 calories. 10 - 20 % off would be 1467 to 1650. You'd probably go for the higher figure as you are already at a healthy weight. That would give you quite a small deficit of 184 - 367 calories so weight loss would be slow (not the 1 pound a week you were aiming for). I know what you mean about the maths not working! It's the same for me, and my deficit works out as being quite small, but in the end I don't think it matters that I'm losing slowly.

If you want to continue adding exercise calories rather than including them in TDEE, you could add them but only eat 80 - 90 % back. That would give you more of deficit if you do more exercise, because you're taking off a percentage.

(This is not from my knowledge but from some of the advice I've seen from the very helpful people who are more knowledgeable!).

However, I'm going to say (with no scientific basis!) that if it was me, and I was successfully maintaining at a healthy weight the way you are, I probably wouldn't mess with it! I'd concentrate on fitness rather than weight loss. But you know best if you're at too high a weight for you.

trhops · April 2013

Take the guess work out of this and get your RMR professionally tested.

These equations have numerous outliers - you may well be one of them.

Exactly what I did, and found out I am WAY less than the online calculators. My resting metabolic rate is only 907, calculators show I should be around 1383.

AnneU93 · April 2013

I rewrote in place of a road map ver 3.

It has only been out a few weeks, so I know you're not doing it. You claim you have been doing it for 3 months...

How big is your cut 20%???

20% is not for everyone, that's what i changed in version 3. I also made a summary of IPOARM 3, here it is.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

if you're sticking to the deficit laid out... in ver 3.0 or the summary for over a month with no results, then you would cut back 10% more, try again for another month, then cut back another 10%(if you get no results again).

I do not claim to have been doing In place of a road map 3.0 for 3 months, but the "3.0" suggest that that have been previous versions which I have been doing and I have revised when the new version has come out, when I stalled 3 months ago I decided to do different things to try and break the pleateau and nothing has worked these past 3 months. That is what I have been doing the last 3 months, therefore not the 3.0, but I have calculated it and the results that I was given was the same as I had been eating at the past month or so, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, it is difficult to calculate the holidays since all foods are mixed together and made in one big portion and then divided out -not many small portions so that the calculations are correct.

Oh yes, i forgot dan called it 3.0(his last one), the one i edited is ver 3. So you're right there is a difference.

Do you know your body fat %?

What are your stats, I'll go input the numbers for you in to fat2fitradio.com and tell me your activity level... I can do it for you if you wish.

My body fat is 29.8 - 30%

Yes I am 165lbs and 5'9", but for more exact measurements I am 175cm and 75kg and my normal activity level is sedentary since I drive to the entrance of my school sit down for 5-6 hours then drive to the door of my house and the sit in my couch with my legs up doing assignments, homework, MFP cruising or what tv-series until I have to go to bed -Then on day when I don't have a lot of homework and my brain isn't exhausted I do Jillian Micaels 30 minutes of extreme shed and shred, but I measure that with a very expensive Polar FT40 HRM and then log the number that is gives and then I eat about 50% of the burned calories back since J.M. is circuit training and because I would have burned something anyway in that 30 minute period even if I was just sitting down (I only burn like between 200-300 calories doing this 30 minute workout.

I have already myself used fat2fit to calculate it many times, but my body just won't get rid of anything

HealthWoke0ish · April 2013

Bump

jeansgirl · April 2013

I am confused too. I was doing 1200 calories per day and was told that was too low. I had no idea what TDEE or BMR was until I researched it. Mine seems to be 1958 TDEE and 1263 BMR...so what does that mean to continue some weight loss. I do yoga 7 days a week 20 to 50 minutes...sometimes more. Add in usual house chores and dog walking now that weather is better...but I usually don't bother to count or log. Should I up my calories? Should I continue as I have? I feel fine and take a vitamin ...drink water...no soda...lots of real food...very little meat. Ok so I can't seem to convince myself that ice cream isn't a food group, but we make our own. What advice is out there?

So confused -TDEE, BMR and why I am I not losing!!?

Replies

Categories