Reached my weight goal but not body composition

whyflysouth · June 2010

Hi guys and gals,

So after about 5 months of really focusing I managed to reach the weight-loss goal I was looking for, went from a 5'7" - 172 lb overweight down to 148 lbs by doing allot of jogging, some weight-lifting, but primarily through watching the calories, cutting out the sugary stuff (pepsi, cookies, ice cream) and the excessive carbs (2+ cups of rice/day, potato chips, french fries).

So... I should be happy, and I am but I'm also not where I want to be just yet. I lost the weight, but I've still got a tummy (doesn't stick out though), and I've become a bit too skinny, kinda flabby. So I'm not really interested in losing any more weight, but rather modifying my shape to be more muscular. I got my body fat % measured and I'm at 14-15% roughly depending on the number of times I measure it.

Ideally, I'd like to be at 10-12% body fat, I'd like to weigh in the range of 145 - 155 lbs, and I'd like to be more muscular. So I'm wondering if you guys have any advice for how to achieve that?

Here are what I assume I should be doing, but I'm not sure:
- Since I'm at my goal weight, I should stop eating below maintenance, up my calories back to 2120 instead of 1690 where it's been at for the last x # of months.
- I could probably cut cardio back to once or twice a week, and make my focus be weight-lifting to build muscle.
- ?? Should I start eating above maintenance to build muscle now ??

Since I spent about half this year working hard to lose fat, I don't want to turn around and start gaining it back all of sudden, but I'm assuming that I can't gain muscle w/o eating more... so I'd really appreciate what kind of advice any of you might have for me to get where I want to go.

Thanks!

elmct57 · June 2010

what body type are you? endomorph, mesomorph or combination?

the weight loss was phase one of your diet. the shapeup and redistribution is phase 2.

hamiltonba · June 2010

I wish I could give you some advice, but I can't. I, too am at goal weight but am a little flabby. I do strength training, but I'm a little frustrated with some parts of my body. I lift pretty heavy and have worked with a personal trainer. She told me to accept my body and to look at how far I've come - Granted she is 15 years younger and rock hard.....

KendalBeee · June 2010

I'm sure if the right people read your post, you will get a more comprehensive answer, but my guess would be to start weight training. Something like P90X is supposed to seriously help you tone up. I've never used it but I've heard good things about it.

hiddensecant · June 2010

It sounds like you need to eat maintenance for a while and bump up the weight lifting. Just increase the calories if you start to lose more weight.

whyflysouth · June 2010

what body type are you? endomorph, mesomorph or combination?

the weight loss was phase one of your diet. the shapeup and redistribution is phase 2.

Hmm... I wouldn't say I wholly fit into one or the other, probably a combination of ectomorph & mesomorph, that is, for most of my teenage life I was lean but not skinny and not athleticly built. My avg fat % has always been around 16% before graduating college and living the sedentary lifestyle that made me overweight. Before I turned 21 yrs old I could never get my weight above 145 lbs no matter what I ate. To me at that time I saw that as being too thin, but I have friends who are a few inches taller than me that struggle to get their weight above 130 so I know I'm not a true ectomorph.

The narrowest part of my waist is at 31 inches, yet the widest part of my hips (including my butt) is at 38 inches, I've got very wide hips and it would probably look pretty awkward if weren't for the fact that my chest and back is around 39 inches giving me an hour-glass figure.

But going back to your question, I know for sure my ectomorph (skinny) friends see me as a mesomorph, while my mesomorph friends see me as on the low end of the mesomorph scale. So if there's a low end of the mesomorph scale, that's probably where I'm at.

sweetbn · June 2010

Weight training is key to muscle development. How you do it is really up to you... there are enthusiastics for P90X (and similar programs) that will swear by it. Then, there are others who will swear by getting a PT. And still others who say old fashion push ups/sit ups/squats will get you the best results. Which do you LIKE doing?

I still think cardio is important here - even in P90x (which I am a huge fan of) we do cardio at least 2x a week. The important part is really to push yourself. If the workout seems too easy, it is! You need to WORK your muscles.

I see you are already aiming for more protein then carbs which is good for muscle building which is good. Yes, you need to up your calories to be in a maintenance stage, but you want to be careful and add them slowly so as to not shock your body too much.

And congrats on losing that weight!! WTG!

kjensen15 · June 2010

I would still continue to do cardio and try to keep your heart rate at about 75%-85% of your max heart rate. This will all your body to burn fat, if you sustain a heart rate for an extended period of time over 85% of your max your body will start burning muscle as it's source of fuel. Basically counteracting the weigh lifting you are doing. Also, be sure and get a good meal eaten within an hour of working out. Ideally the meal should be about 2:1 carbs to protein. So for me about 35 grams of protein and 70 grams of carbs.

oats4breakfast · June 2010

Try seeing if there are any crossfit's in your area. They'll work your but off and seem to have more class time options than some of the cheaper ones. You don't have to workout with your shirt off or become a cult member, you can just go there, work hard and see the improvements.
There are other options too, like operation bootcamp etc. I guess it just boils down to what you enjoy and what you can afford.

If you have an iPhone, look at "FitnessBuilder" by PumpOne. They have a good number of workouts in there, and you can buld your own. The team that makes the app will answer any question you throw at them (fitness or otherwise) in less than 24 hours and will exceed most of your expectations with their answers.

whyflysouth · June 2010

Hmm... yeah with the cardio, I used to go running or get on the elliptical for an hour every other day, I did P90 for a while and it was good but I felt that lifting weights every other day didn't give the muscles enough time to recover. Also it was hard to keep it up, it's pretty boring following the same videos over and over so I'd get bored after a week. Videos like those are really good for the winter when I'm holed up in my house, but in the summer time, there's allot of more enjoyable exercise activities to do.

On the weekends my friends play really intense basketball games, and I played with them last sunday for two hours, and I can't remember the last time I pushed myself so hard. So I think I'll can play a good 2 hours of bball once a weekend, and maybe incorporate some light swimming, jogging, hiking, biking, etc, with the wife and kids on the other day of the weekend.

I guess I've been discounting doing more cardio b/c it burns through calories, but to your points, I should just eat back what gets burned ... but that always leads me back to the question, 'If I've got relatively high endurance, and I do intense cardio once or twice a week, what benefit am I really getting from doing more cardio?' If it's the calorie-burn, well I'm gonna eat that back anyways. And if it's the cardiovascular conditioning, well I'm already at a good level of conditioning - I mean I can't run a marathon, but I can jog a 5k rather easily, take a twenty minute break and probably jog another one...

glfprncs2 · June 2010

ChaLean Extreme...3 days/week of strength training, 2 days of cardio (though one of the cardio days is an interval workout...cardio and light weights for muscle endurance). LOVE IT! I've also done P90X (3 rounds), but I find the strength training moves in ChaLean Extreme to be more designed with women's problem areas in mind.

sweetbn · July 2010

'If I've got relatively high endurance, and I do intense cardio once or twice a week, what benefit am I really getting from doing more cardio?' If it's the calorie-burn, well I'm gonna eat that back anyways. And if it's the cardiovascular conditioning, well I'm already at a good level of conditioning - I mean I can't run a marathon, but I can jog a 5k rather easily, take a twenty minute break and probably jog another one...

Do you like to run? Try to train for a marathon!! Intensity is good for things other than getting into good running shape (ex: your heart!)

If P90x bores you definitely try a PT or Crossfit (those are insanely intense workouts - better results in less time, I would assume).

kicklikeaGIRL · July 2010

Hi guys and gals,

So after about 5 months of really focusing I managed to reach the weight-loss goal I was looking for, went from a 5'7" - 172 lb overweight down to 148 lbs by doing allot of jogging, some weight-lifting, but primarily through watching the calories, cutting out the sugary stuff (pepsi, cookies, ice cream) and the excessive carbs (2+ cups of rice/day, potato chips, french fries).

So... I should be happy, and I am but I'm also not where I want to be just yet. I lost the weight, but I've still got a tummy (doesn't stick out though), and I've become a bit too skinny, kinda flabby. So I'm not really interested in losing any more weight, but rather modifying my shape to be more muscular. I got my body fat % measured and I'm at 14-15% roughly depending on the number of times I measure it.

Ideally, I'd like to be at 10-12% body fat, I'd like to weigh in the range of 145 - 155 lbs, and I'd like to be more muscular. So I'm wondering if you guys have any advice for how to achieve that?

Here are what I assume I should be doing, but I'm not sure:
- Since I'm at my goal weight, I should stop eating below maintenance, up my calories back to 2120 instead of 1690 where it's been at for the last x # of months.
- I could probably cut cardio back to once or twice a week, and make my focus be weight-lifting to build muscle.
- ?? Should I start eating above maintenance to build muscle now ??

Since I spent about half this year working hard to lose fat, I don't want to turn around and start gaining it back all of sudden, but I'm assuming that I can't gain muscle w/o eating more... so I'd really appreciate what kind of advice any of you might have for me to get where I want to go.

Thanks!

Where did you get your body fat measured? At a gym? At home? What kind of test did you use?

kicklikeaGIRL · July 2010

The reason I ask where you got your body fat tested and what type of test is because from the sounds of it, the body fat % could be incorrect? Either that, or you are being way too hard on yourself. a 14-15% body fat percentage is very good. Here are the classifications. Keeping in mind these classifications are for women only.

Athlete - 14-20%
Fitness - 21-24%
Acceptable - 25-31%
Obese - 31%+

Anything lower than 14% and may run into issues with your health, as your body needs fat. Women need more fat than men. The only time I'm aware of that someone would reccomend less than 14% of body fat for a woman would be for professional and highly trained/skilled athletes who are being monitored by trainers/doctors. Thats my understanding anyways. I'm not an expert, and every time I've researched this topic the low end changes slightly, but not by much. As far as buliding muscle, I think its always a great idea. Strength training is important in your exercise schedule and can help you become stronger and leaner.

sweetoblivion314 · July 2010

I have been working out with my friend who packed on 22 lbs of lean muscle in a month. And he is a vegan.
We went to the gym and did heavy lifting everyday and no cardio. It was a four day rotation of: day 1) chest & back, day 2) legs, day 3) arms & shoulders, day 4) core.
He ate whatever he wanted whenever he wanted and made sure to eat tons of protein. The idea is that if you want to weigh 155 lbs you have to eat at least the maintenance calories of someone who weighs that much. His body fat percentage raised a bit as well. however, he is noticeably much more muscular. He just entered the cutting phase of his workout which adds lots of cardio to the routine in order to bring his body fat down. He fully expects to get trim and lean within the next month.

lilmissy2 · July 2010

In terms of the cardio, it makes sense to me that if you have good cardio health you would want to keep that? It's not all about calories, it's about your heart and lung capacity.

To help even out your body composition, you really just have to eat sufficient calories and match it with exercise. By that I mean, you can do a variety of exercises and just make sure you eat back the calories. There is actually no benefit of eating extra protein in terms of gaining muscle but of course if your calorie intake goes up then even if your percentage of protein stays the same it will be more protein in grams.... but you shouldn't need to have a higher percentage of protein.

It will be a slow process though! but I think that's a good think.

Best of luck to you :flowerforyou:

sweetoblivion314 · July 2010

There is actually no benefit of eating extra protein in terms of gaining muscle but of course if your calorie intake goes up then even if your percentage of protein stays the same it will be more protein in grams.... but you shouldn't need to have a higher percentage of protein.

Protein has the highest rate of transferring to lean body mass because if it is needed in its native state as an amino acid it will be used as such. Fat and Carbs need to be converted several times before this occurs so they are more readily used by your body as energy sources. High amounts of protein post workout lowers recovery time and increases lean mass gain.

lilmissy2 · July 2010

I can see your logic but as a sports dietitian (certified as one anyway although my area of practice is acute care), we always go by the scientific evidence when giving advice and studies have shown that eating more protein (above requirements) did not improve lean tissue gain.

whyflysouth · July 2010

kicklikeagirl - yeah idk i get the impression that some people posting here think I'm a woman... I'm a guy (that's me & my daughter in the profile pic), so while 14-15% bf is good, the scale is a little different for us - I'm at the 'fit' level but not the athletic level (6-13%):

Description Women Men
Essential fat 10-13% 1-3%
Athletes 14–20% 6-13%
Fitness 21–24% 14–17%
Average 25–31% 18–24%
Obese 32%+ [4] 25%+

I'd love to be at the middle of the athletic level or so, maybe around 9%...

For the time being I'm lifting heavier weights more for a change, eating healthy foods but not focusing on recording portion size (except for the rice & breads b/c those can get out of hand rather quickly).

lilmissy - About the cardio health, I agree that I want to maintain it, the question is, I'm assuming 2 days/wk of intense cardio is enough to probably maintain that, so why should I incorporate more? I just think that more often than not, people run marathons b/c they want to achieve a major feat, not really b/c somehow running 26 miles at one time is going to provide some major cardiovascular gain over their quality of everyday life vs the person who runs 5 and 10Ks... I'd like to one day run a marathon so I know what the experience is like, so I can prove to myself I can accomplish one, but for the time being I'd rather have a hard and chiseled physique first.... so I guess I need to eat enough for my body to build more muscle.

Rynatat · July 2010

First of all - Congrats on getting your goal! That is so awesome:flowerforyou:
My sister & hubby are PFT & ex-body builders. When I've told them I wanted to build muscle & lose fat I was advised to up my protein and work hard. I do weight training & calisthenics min 5days p/wk, usually 6 days (on the 7th I rest LOL), and while I'm not losing weight the way I wanted, I'm toning & building muscle & for the first time ever, I love the way my butt looks in my slacks :happy: The last time it looked this good I was 15lbs thinner! I can also fit into smaller clothes and look good. I really believe key is protein and consistent weights: you don't have to work the same muscle groups each day, but you can mix it up & change your weights mid-work out (I.E. I do arms & start with 10lb dumbells, switch to 5 lbs then switch back to 10). Keep your body on it's toes and it will respond!
Good Luck on achieving your goal & setting a new goal

kicklikeaGIRL · July 2010

kicklikeagirl - yeah idk i get the impression that some people posting here think I'm a woman... I'm a guy (that's me & my daughter in the profile pic), so while 14-15% bf is good, the scale is a little different for us - I'm at the 'fit' level but not the athletic level (6-13%):

Description Women Men
Essential fat 10-13% 1-3%
Athletes 14–20% 6-13%
Fitness 21–24% 14–17%
Average 25–31% 18–24%
Obese 32%+ [4] 25%+

I'd love to be at the middle of the athletic level or so, maybe around 9%...

For the time being I'm lifting heavier weights more for a change, eating healthy foods but not focusing on recording portion size (except for the rice & breads b/c those can get out of hand rather quickly).

Hahaha...don't I feel sheepish!!!! I don't know why I assumed that either? Thats strange! I am so sorry! Yes, you are 100% correct. My husband recently did ChaLean Extreme with me and he got down to 9-10% body fat, previously was at around 14-15%. He followed the strength training portion of the program (3 days a week, no less) and got all lean and mean in less than 3 months (The program is about 90 days). He was also doing a lot of running at the time as cardio inbetween workout sessions. Congrats at dropping the weight and aiming for some great new goals! And sorry again for the misunderstanding on my part.

kcbythec · July 2010

Hi all....and Dawna I couldn't agree more with your method of achieving your goals. I do think lifting is becoming a way to burn, and rev up the metabolism, but I still do at least 40 minutes of cardio a day, sometimes interspersed for just getting my HR up. The more moves I learn to do the more I can feel the particular muscle group getting stronger. It's a good thing!

KCbythec

mworld · July 2010

think i saw it mentioned quite a few times, but sounds to me like you just need to buff up....eat maintenance and do serious weight training -- im a p90x fanboy for the weight training portion (but don't think their cardio like bits are that impressive and run instead fo those). Just going to the gym and moving some weights around wont cut it unless you get really body builder serious with your research....which is why a PT or something like P90x is great since they do the 'thinking' for you (i know that sounds ironic)

aippolito1 · July 2010

Just like you said, increase your calories to maintenance and lift heavy stuff to bulk up. It's pretty simple, actually.

HOSED49 · July 2010

You said you enjoy running so I would second an above suggestion of looking into either a crossfit gym or just using their website to do your own crossfit workouts. It is cardio based with olympic lifts along with bodyweight exercises. I was also unhappy with my weight, I joined a biggest loser contest at work in January at 214 lbs and 19% bodyfat. In April I placed third in the contest by dropping 21 lbs and got to 14% bodyfat. So like you I reached my weight goal and then I changed my goals on here to maintain my current weight. It raised my calories, which were very hard to acheive the first month! Like you I still wanted closer to the 10-12% bf range, so I began running more and utilizing the crossfit workouts. They say you can see your abs below 12% bf, so I must be there because I am glad they are back. And the workouts....they kick my *kitten* and I love the challenge. I posted the deck of cards workout earlier today which is just one of many of the different challenges they have. Oh and from personal experience with the protein, the higher I kept my protein intake, the leaner I got, scientifically debunked or not, eating more protein made me and alot of the guys I workout with alot leaner! Anyways, thats my two cents....you can use em or throw em in your change jar for later!

michiganderrdh · July 2010

I also recommend ChaLEAN Extreme which is also a Beachbody program. It concentrates on exactly what you're looking for - tightening things! She recommends heavier weights, slower and few reps. You are still sore and get a great workout. I got my hamstrings defined again for the first time in years.

http://beachbodycoach.com/esuite/home/michiganderrdh?bctid=25219364001

My husband also used this program and liked it. I'm working out a plan for the first of the year (I'm pregnant

and am going to mix Insanity (mostly cardio), P90X and ChaLEAN together. I prefer CHL's strength training over P90X's but I really like KenpoX and YogaX (even though it's so long, I break it up some days).

What about yoga??? I LOVE yoga! It always helps to define your tri's and is a GREAT core workout! Pilates as well! Are you at a gym at all???

Azdak · July 2010

At this point, I don't think doing more cardio is going to get you where you want to go. Keeping your cardio more or less where it is and moving in the direction of more strength training is probably the best advice. My gut feeling is that something more akin to a crossfit style routine would be a good place to start--or something like TRX-, perhaps cycling through periods of heavier weight lifting.

Also keep in mind that if you have made your current changes in 5 months, you are just getting started. You are aspiring to an athlete's body, which is going to take more work (and probably time) than it took you to get to this point.

whyflysouth · July 2010

At this point, I don't think doing more cardio is going to get you where you want to go. Keeping your cardio more or less where it is and moving in the direction of more strength training is probably the best advice. My gut feeling is that something more akin to a crossfit style routine would be a good place to start--or something like TRX-, perhaps cycling through periods of heavier weight lifting.

Also keep in mind that if you have made your current changes in 5 months, you are just getting started. You are aspiring to an athlete's body, which is going to take more work (and probably time) than it took you to get to this point.

Yeah, you're right, I think this is the part of the game where the real journey begins. My brother has been an athlete his whole life and he got pretty surprised when he saw how quickly I lost the weight that I seemed to put on gradually over the last decade, but he was surprised by how "flabby" I was at the same time... so I think losing the weight has probably been the easiest part of it, now the key is putting on the right weight and this is where the endurance stretch is going to be for me, maybe it might take a year of dedication but I'm thankful I have all of you providing support & advice here.

On the lifting, yeah I'm starting a program called MAX-OT where you lift as heavy as you can to get to failure in 4-6 reps, it's something I've never really focussed before as all my previous lifting has been in the 10-15 reps range, and I'm hoping it will jump-start my muscles into growth. The times when I'd be dedicating lifting I'd always hit a plateau in strength after about what seems like a month, and I wouldn't really see much change physically, so I don't know if that I'm just being impatient and need to work through such times, or if I'm not eating enough to get real muscle growth... when I was 20 yrs old never had such a problem, was able to keep growing (albiet at a slower rate than most others, i guess this is the ecto part of my ecto-mesomorph somatype).

Hosed - nice work on getting to your abs! Yeah you've always had an impressive physique under the fat so once you lost the fat you could get back to it quite nicely. I'd like to get my body up to a level where if my work schedule got so hectic that I found myself with an extra 10-15 lbs of fat one day, I'd only need a diet modification and introducing some daily cardio to get back to my ideal... rather than being a fat-skinny-guy.

disneyfetishboy · July 2010

This has been a good thread, thanks for starting it.

I'm in a similar situation where I have hit my target weight, and am moving into a phase where I want to look better. I sought out a professional's advice (registered dietician, physical therapist, trainer) and received some recommendations already made by others here. Here's a quick summary of her recommendations:

1) Back out of *some* cardio (I was going 7 days a week) and substitute-in some serious weight training

2) When lifting, use compound lifts and lift heavy (until fatigue)

3) Up your protein intake and try to eat immediately after lifting

4) Feel free to eat all your calories (incl. exercise calories) but as a rule of thumb just eat when you're hungry

5) For the cardio that remains, try interval training to make better use of your time (and leave more time for lifting)

Another observation was that she thought that a body fat percentage lower than 12% (for men) is something that is very hard to attain for someone who isn't a pretty damn serious athlete or a bodybuilder. Be sure your goals are appropriate for your lifestyle and the amount of time that you want to dedicate to fitness/health.

I'm just 3 weeks out of making some of these changes to my routine. I can already tell that it will be slower transformation than straight weight loss, but am hopeful it will work . . .

Reached my weight goal but not body composition

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