Running AND strength training??

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Takes2long
Takes2long Posts: 367 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
If I want to be able to run faster, further and longer, should I put more focus into cardio or would strength training help? In my kickboxing, karate and muay thai classes, my legs feel like they're full of lead! It's so hard to keep lifting them! My diet is pretty good, not the best, but not bad. I'm definately eating enough. Usually around 1800-2000. Lately, I've stopped counting becasue the numbers were making me crazy. That's why my diary is blank. I've been kickboxing for 4.5 years, karate for nearly 3 years and muay thai for a ittle over a year.

I''m signed up for 2 5K's so far this spring. I'd like to imporve my time from last year. I"ve started with a strength program because I know I have to get more balanced. My front muscles...quads, biceps etc, are stronger than my back, and it IS causing some pain. THAT issue is getting resolved. However, I feel like if I continue to work with the weights, I'll be adding more weight to my legs, and it'll be just that much harder to run.

In my old gym, I noticed that the runners didn't lift, and the lifters didn't run. Personal preference? I'd like to do both! I'm not looking for any record breaking runs, I'd just like to run faster and in class, kick longer etc. than I do right now. Do I need to develope my calves and hamstrings? Just run MORE, since right now it's 2x week?
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Replies

  • PureAdamic
    PureAdamic Posts: 185
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    I lift 5 days a week and do about 30 - 40 min of steady state cardio with some sprints here and there.
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    If you want to improve your running ability then you have to run 3 times a week bare minimum. At 2 times a week you are not providing enough stimulus for improvement; essentially you are maintaining what you have.

    Strength training might help if you have some sort of muscular imbalance but the #1 thing you have to build to improve running is aerobic capacity and strength training won't to anything at all to improve that.

    If you run three times (four times is better) a week then work up to where two of the runs are about an hour long and the third run is two hours long. Keep the pace easy and do this for three to five months. You should see some significant improvement in that time.

    After that you will have built a sufficient running base where you can add some speed training if you want to.
  • Linli_Anne
    Linli_Anne Posts: 1,360 Member
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    I started trying to learn to run before I did any strength training. I suffered a knee injury which I found out was due to strength imbalance between my quads and hamstrings. My physiotherapist recommended a few different exercises, which involved body-weight squats.

    I left running to the side while I healed, but continued with the bodyweight squats and once I had the all clear from my phsio, I started to incorporate weights, and ultimately did Stage 1 of the NEw Rules of Lifting for Women.

    Then I got back into running. My endurance was MUCH better, and I didn't suffer any of the knee pain I had previously. With the upperbody strength moves that I am also doing it has helped my posture, which ultimately helps my breathing and I am able to run 10Ks, averaging just under a 12 minute mile.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    First...
    If you want to run faster and further, then you need to be running faster and further. It sounds stupid (or maybe overly simple), but nothing will train the body for running better than running. Other activities can help, including strength training, but running is the best way to train for running.

    Next...
    Unless you are on a calorie surplus, you're not going to be adding any significant muscle to your legs. Even if you do add a little, some extra strength can be very beneficial to runners. Personally, I tend to think of things more in terms of strength to weight ratios rather than simple scale weight.

    Last...
    Runners who want the most optimal running progress/results probably don't lift, at least not heavy and not very often. Lifters who want the most optimal strength/size gains don't run. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle... we want to look a little better, be a little stronger, and be healthier in general, in which case running AND lifting are BOTH good ideas.
  • jacklis
    jacklis Posts: 280 Member
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    I lift and run. Lifting is 3 or 4 times a week and running/stairs/rowing is two or three times a week. I was never really much of a runner, but as I started lifting my legs became much stronger and my body seemed to enjoy the break. I especially noticed that after I had been focusing on my hamstrings my running duration became longer.
  • NEOA910
    NEOA910 Posts: 11 Member
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    Work on core training, maybe try some yoga or pilates? When I started that my times/endurance got better. Also, I second the 3x per week run comment someone above said. If I don't run at least 3x a week, my stamina doesn't seem to change at all. That being said, I almost never run two days in a row.
  • cad39too
    cad39too Posts: 874 Member
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    How much further do you want to be able to run; I see you mentioned 5Ks are you looking to get to 10K runs or just faster 5K runs.

    I lift 5 days a week, my warm up is always a run; since lifting I have gone from 10 minute miles to 7.5 minutes miles, however I only do a mile or 2 before lifting. Twice a week - more if I am up for it I run between 5k and 10k. I am not saying that lifting has increased my speed but it definitely hasn't hurt it.

    Re your hamstrings, I read somewhere that women in particular have a strength imbalance between Quads and Hammies so you should definitely work on strengthening your hamstrings - s/l deadlifts helped me.
  • NavyKnightAh13
    NavyKnightAh13 Posts: 1,394 Member
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    bumping for later reading
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
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    You get what you train for. If you want strength, focus on strength and cut down on running. If you want speed and endurance, then run more, and use strength training only as a way to mitigate/prevent injuries.

    If you are running with good form, then hamstring and calf strength is important. So those would be the areas I would emphasize on your strength training days.
  • sevsmom
    sevsmom Posts: 1,172 Member
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    I do strength training with heavy *for me* weights 3 days a week and I run 3 days a week. I am 41 (on the downhill side to 42), work a desk job full time, have 5 kids (3 still at home) and I'm training for a half marathon. I ran my first half last May @ 1:55:27. My second half in Sept last year @ 1:48:03. . .My PR for a 5k is 23:02. I don't think lifting weights has impeded my ability to get faster. I'm hoping for a 1:45:00 (or less) on my upcoming half. And my legs are strong because I do weighted squats & lunges.

    Not sure if any of that inspires you to continue to strengthen your muscles, but I know you can do both, to some extent, and be lean, mean, and reasonably fast.

    :-)
  • Takes2long
    Takes2long Posts: 367 Member
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    Thanks everyone for all your help!!! I have NROLFW, and I'm following those exercises. Not exactly, but it's a guide. My hamstrings and calves are definitely getting some attention! The cardio I currently do 4x/week seems to help when I run, but my legs feel so heavy. Yes, I need to run to get better at running. Right now, my focus is 5K's. Looks like I might be doing 2 more before July! I"d like to run faster, and longer. I don't think a marathon is in my future, but maybe a 10K.

    Any hints/tips/advice about my legs getting SO heavy during class? I thought it might be because my thighs are just muscular. Not a lot, but enough. Maybe I'm just doing SO many lifts/kicks etc., I'm just tired?? LOL...too many reps??:tongue:

    Yes, I do need to add in another day of running.
  • Still_Fluffy
    Still_Fluffy Posts: 341 Member
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    Yes, many runners don't lift a lot. But lifting weights is an important if you want to improve. I lift three days a week and run anywhere between 30 to 50 miles a week. When I'm training for a race my lifting is not a priority, when I'm not in training then I try to focus more on lifting. If you want to get faster, you need to run more and do speed workouts. I'm a marathoner so I can't help you on how to improve your speed beyond speed and tempo workouts. Check out the runner's world or Hall Higdon’s website, they always have good advice.
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    Heavy legs is normally an indication of under-recovery. You may be doing too much for your current fitness level. Or you may not be sleeping or eating enough. You have to take a look at everything and determine where the problem lies.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    Heavy legs is normally an indication of under-recovery. You may be doing too much for your current fitness level. Or you may not be sleeping or eating enough. You have to take a look at everything and determine where the problem lies.

    Agreed.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
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    If I want to be able to run faster, further and longer, should I put more focus into cardio or would strength training help? In my kickboxing, karate and muay thai classes, my legs feel like they're full of lead! It's so hard to keep lifting them! My diet is pretty good, not the best, but not bad. I'm definately eating enough. Usually around 1800-2000. Lately, I've stopped counting becasue the numbers were making me crazy. That's why my diary is blank. I've been kickboxing for 4.5 years, karate for nearly 3 years and muay thai for a ittle over a year.

    I''m signed up for 2 5K's so far this spring. I'd like to imporve my time from last year. I"ve started with a strength program because I know I have to get more balanced. My front muscles...quads, biceps etc, are stronger than my back, and it IS causing some pain. THAT issue is getting resolved. However, I feel like if I continue to work with the weights, I'll be adding more weight to my legs, and it'll be just that much harder to run.

    In my old gym, I noticed that the runners didn't lift, and the lifters didn't run. Personal preference? I'd like to do both! I'm not looking for any record breaking runs, I'd just like to run faster and in class, kick longer etc. than I do right now. Do I need to develope my calves and hamstrings? Just run MORE, since right now it's 2x week?

    I don't know if you already do this, but consider doing HIIT training. I've read that it is ideal for increasing endurance and speed, and has a lot of the benefits of weight training in that it can aid in the development of new muscle.

    As for lifting, consider the military and how built and capable some of those guys are in both lifting and endurance marching/running... that's proof enough for me that both are great and achievable.
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
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    Heavy legs is normally an indication of under-recovery. You may be doing too much for your current fitness level. Or you may not be sleeping or eating enough. You have to take a look at everything and determine where the problem lies.

    Agreed.

    This--or, you might not be eating enough carbs.
  • Takes2long
    Takes2long Posts: 367 Member
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    Sorry to keep asking questions...the heavy legs. Under recovery? Too much with no breaks? The only days I take a break are on the weekends. I think my activity level is moderate.

    Monday AM-Kickboxing-1 hour, Monday night- strength with a little cardio
    Tuesday AM-Karate-1 hour
    Wednesday night-Muay Thai- 1 hour
    Thursday night- cardio and strength
    Friday AM-kickboxing/Muay Thai mix-1 hour

    I just started strength training, and I can get to the gym until school ends in June. Then, I plan on continuing them at home.

    How can I tell if I'm eating enough? I'd eat around 2100 and NET around 1500. More or less depending on my activity for the day. I eat when I'm hungry. The constant calorie counting was making my batty, so I'm taking a break. I eat pretty well, just need more fresh fruits and veggies. Excellent of the water.

    The sleep....yeah, I could use more. I get around 6 hours/night. More on the weekends.

    If I'm doing too much for my fitness level, if I trade a MA class for a run, will that still be doing too much?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    Sorry to keep asking questions...the heavy legs. Under recovery? Too much with no breaks? The only days I take a break are on the weekends. I think my activity level is moderate.

    Monday AM-Kickboxing-1 hour, Monday night- strength with a little cardio
    Tuesday AM-Karate-1 hour
    Wednesday night-Muay Thai- 1 hour
    Thursday night- cardio and strength
    Friday AM-kickboxing/Muay Thai mix-1 hour

    I just started strength training, and I can get to the gym until school ends in June. Then, I plan on continuing them at home.

    How can I tell if I'm eating enough? I'd eat around 2100 and NET around 1500. More or less depending on my activity for the day. I eat when I'm hungry. The constant calorie counting was making my batty, so I'm taking a break. I eat pretty well, just need more fresh fruits and veggies. Excellent of the water.

    The sleep....yeah, I could use more. I get around 6 hours/night. More on the weekends.

    If I'm doing too much for my fitness level, if I trade a MA class for a run, will that still be doing too much?

    How you feel is a very good indicator.

    Also, under-recovery isn't just about eating and rest days... it's about getting enough quality sleep as well, and this is even more important when you are lifting.
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    Try increasing your sleep to 7-8 hours. If you start feeling better in a week or so then you know that you need more sleep.

    Personally I find that I need 7 hours minimum when training hard.
  • Sqeekyjojo
    Sqeekyjojo Posts: 704 Member
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    I used to kickbox and miss the buzz it gave me.

    However, whilst I am not in the slightest bit fit at present, I have found that the best results are coming through me doing workouts that consist of 1/3 treadmill for warm up, cardio, etc and 2/3 weights. I do a lot of work on my legs and shoulders/back.

    I mix it up with aqua stuff once a week, when I was kickboxing, I would have used those workouts for my core strength and flexibility.


    Remember, kickboxing is very high intensity; it's normal to feel heavy legged before you get your buzz. Well, it was for me, usually halfway through the sessions.

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