Understanding the blood sugar roller coaster...

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  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    Yes, I said it would be incredibly hard to induce insulin resistance...as in initiate it...while exercising.
    I know, I was just agreeing.

    I'm wordy.
  • Lilianam881
    Lilianam881 Posts: 25
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    I struggle everyday on the blood sugar roller coaster as I am a type 1 diabetic. I do what I can with diet and exercise but unfortunately I am insulin dependent. I have to count carbs, plan meals, and make sure my exercise does not bring my blood sugar too low. I also make sure I take enough insulin but not too much. Losing weight for me has been extremely difficult. Don't take your pancreas for granted people! Eat healthy, exercise, and be grateful. :) <<<--- so far that's helped my blood sugars become more stable and I've been In great moods. :)
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Actually that would be detrimental to a diabetic. They are already undergoing unregulated gluconeogenesis; the last thing they need to do is release a boatload of cortisol to drive their liver further into glucose over-production.
    Boy is it. It's one of the many things I personally tried. Fasting with severe Type II diabetes = ridiculous liver dumps. I've got logs of my personal readings as I learned to control my D that would blow your mind.

    What really surprised me is what happened when I tried to exercise post-fast (ie: in the morning before breakfast). Instead of utilizing the circulating glucose for the activity, I continued to have greater and greater levels released into my circulatory system. It only worsened as I increased the intensity. I tried this on multiple occasions and stopped each time at a blood glucose level nearly 300mg/dl (about 16.6mmol/L for any non-Americans.)

    Now that I've learned to control it (no insulin, diet and exercise only) even while exercising my CGMS shows me max at about 130mg/dl (about 7.2mmol/L) and I'll get slightly under 70mg/dl (3.9mmol/L) when my liver decides to pump me back up.

    Yep, the exercise increases epinephrine which causes your liver to produce even more glucose. Regardless of the amount of insulin you'd produce, your cells wouldn't be able to take it up. Those are some really high BG levels you experienced. I'm very impressed you've controlled it with diet and exercise! Congratulations. :)
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    Yep, the exercise increases epinephrine which causes your liver to produce even more glucose. Regardless of the amount of insulin you'd produce, your cells wouldn't be able to take it up. Those are some really high BG levels you experienced. I'm very impressed you've controlled it with diet and exercise! Congratulations. :)
    Those weren't high at all at time of my diagnosis. My HbA1c was 12.2% (normal is 4.6 to 5.4%), my "average" BG was near the 300mg/dl mark. Stress and carbohydrates only made it worse.

    At diagnosis I was referred immediately to an endocrinologist who told me that at my levels, I would likely be on insulin for life.

    Stubborn Scotsman that I am (OK, I'm Canadian, but ... you know what I mean) I decided to bury myself in research and try to do this without.

    Unfortunately, unlike you young folk ... :smile: ... for me biochem was last looked at in 1986. So I had MUCH to learn.
  • bluemoonrise
    bluemoonrise Posts: 42 Member
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    bump
  • cai1961
    cai1961 Posts: 59 Member
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    Bump
  • keiko
    keiko Posts: 2,919 Member
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    bump - so I can read it later
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    Nice post.

    Clearly fluctuating blood sugar levels won't be an issue for some people. However, for others it is very important information.

    Given a third or so of Americans are thought to be diabetic / pre diabetic / metabolic syndrome then it is pertinent for a large number of people.

    Thanks for putting it out there.
  • Rssblade
    Rssblade Posts: 46 Member
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    I am a type 2 Diabetic, just grit your teeth and go on a low carb diet, it sorts out the blood sugar problem and a few others on the way.
  • Delicate
    Delicate Posts: 625 Member
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    Now...to the OP, since you've got this blood sugar/insulin thing down. Please explain to us how doing nothing more than skipping breakfast (eating lunch around 1pm, and dinner no later than 8pm)...which gives you about 16hrs with no food in your body...affects the statements in your above post.

    If you suffer from a metabolic disorder (diabeties, insulin resistance) calories arent all equal, atleast not for me :(

    From personal experience (and being insulin resistant due to pcos), I collapse/faint if i dont eat until 1pm (same goes if i eat cereal i end up on the floor too cause of the sugar drop). I even failed a fast for charity although that was before i was diagnosed.

    I would say you are lucky if you can live without breakfast.
  • 1223345
    1223345 Posts: 1,386 Member
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    And so it continues. I don't care about you know-it-all, self proclaimed "elite". You are welcome to be as ignorant as you like. What I do know is, I see plenty of people around here going on about how hard they work out and how they keep upping their calories etc... yet still can't LOSE weight. Hmmm..... why oh why can that be?! If you look in the food diaries of those people, you almost always see a list of processed garbage in their diet. When I look and see that complaint and that common thread between complaints, that tells me something.

    http://www.diabeteswellbeing.com/diabetes-statistics.html

    The ever increasing number of people with diabetes is nothing to sneeze at. Insulin resistance is not that rare as you all seem to believe. If it were so difficult to create insulin problems within the body, the numbers of people with diabetes would not be on the rise. The number of people diagnosed is up almost 10% since 2011. As the amount of processed "food" rich in lovely things like simple carbs, refined sugars, HFCS etc... increases, insulin problems also rise. Ignore it if you will. You will reap what you sow.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,965 Member
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    Now...to the OP, since you've got this blood sugar/insulin thing down. Please explain to us how doing nothing more than skipping breakfast (eating lunch around 1pm, and dinner no later than 8pm)...which gives you about 16hrs with no food in your body...affects the statements in your above post.
    I know you asked the OP ... but since I believe you already know the answer to this, I'll answer the question.

    Anytime your body gets low on glucose, that same glycogen that was previously stored from circulating excess glucose is converted (with the thanks of the liver) back into glucose and released into our system to fuel our cellular respiration. Shortly after the liver releases glucose the pancreas will release insulin to assist said glucose into our cells.

    The beauty of this for most people is the fact that even if you're only eating once or twice a day with 16 hours break in between, the body's on homeostatic properties keep things well balanced... AND because of low circulating glucose and lower insulin levels throughout the day, it actually IMPROVES insulin sensitivity.

    When you decide to eat, even if you consume a days worth of calories in one meal, the glucose that's generated from your carbohydrate intake continues to fuel cellular respiration, and excess is first be used to replenish glycogen stores, and as long as you didn't over-consume (in terms of caloric intake) there should be no excess glucose.

    Unless you are susceptible to true hypoglycaemia, (where the liver doesn't release enough from glycogen stores to raise glucose to a healthy level) or a severe, un-controlled Type II diabetic (these people often have too MUCH glucose released into their system by their liver during fasting, again well-over a healthy level) then any kind of intermittent fasting program can actually be quite beneficial.
    Glycogen that is stored in our muscles is not converted to glucose throughout the body, it's only used for energy by muscle tissue. The glycogen in our liver is the source for that.

    EDIT: Sorry you did say liver....carry on:smile:
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,965 Member
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    And so it continues. I don't care about you know-it-all, self proclaimed "elite". You are welcome to be as ignorant as you like. What I do know is, I see plenty of people around here going on about how hard they work out and how they keep upping their calories etc... yet still can't LOSE weight. Hmmm..... why oh why can that be?! If you look in the food diaries of those people, you almost always see a list of processed garbage in their diet. When I look and see that complaint and that common thread between complaints, that tells me something.

    http://www.diabeteswellbeing.com/diabetes-statistics.html

    The ever increasing number of people with diabetes is nothing to sneeze at. Insulin resistance is not that rare as you all seem to believe. If it were so difficult to create insulin problems within the body, the numbers of people with diabetes would not be on the rise. The number of people diagnosed is up almost 10% since 2011. As the amount of processed "food" rich in lovely things like simple carbs, refined sugars, HFCS etc... increases, insulin problems also rise. Ignore it if you will. You will reap what you sow.
    Insulin resistance is up because diabetes is up because obesity is up. Junk food as you put it has nothing to do with it for the most part except that junk may be a reason for overeating, and it is the overeating in conjunction with the overall well being of the individual that can influence insulin resistance.
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    Insulin resistance is up because diabetes is up because obesity is up. Junk food as you put it has nothing to do with it for the most part except that junk may be a reason for overeating, and it is the overeating in conjunction with the overall well being of the individual that dictates insulin resistance.
    It's important to remember though that highly-refined carbohydrates DO give a higher spike in glucose/insulin, and a faster resultant drop in both - which is shown in many people to stimulate hunger (in the brain) which is what leads to over-eating in some cases.

    Either way, the result comes from over-eating, true. But it's not always as simple as some people suggest.

    There are many that suggest the way to lose weight is "only eat when you're hungry" ... well, if you're eating refined carbohydrate ... and you're one of those many people that gets hungry because of this ... you're GOING to over-eat.

    Not all refined carbohydrate is considered "junk". Too often things like "whole wheat bread", Grape Nuts, Meusli, etc., are considered "healthy" when all they are is refined carbohydrate contributing to the obesity epidemic for many people.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    Not all refined carbohydrate is considered "junk". Too often things like "whole wheat bread", Grape Nuts, Meusli, etc., are considered "healthy" when all they are is refined carbohydrate contributing to the obesity epidemic for many people.

    Completely agreed...
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,965 Member
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    Insulin resistance is up because diabetes is up because obesity is up. Junk food as you put it has nothing to do with it for the most part except that junk may be a reason for overeating, and it is the overeating in conjunction with the overall well being of the individual that dictates insulin resistance.
    It's important to remember though that highly-refined carbohydrates DO give a higher spike in glucose/insulin, and a faster resultant drop in both - which is shown in many people to stimulate hunger (in the brain) which is what leads to over-eating in some cases.

    Either way, the result comes from over-eating, true. But it's not always as simple as some people suggest.

    There are many that suggest the way to lose weight is "only eat when you're hungry" ... well, if you're eating refined carbohydrate ... and you're one of those many people that gets hungry because of this ... you're GOING to over-eat.

    Not all refined carbohydrate is considered "junk". Too often things like "whole wheat bread", Grape Nuts, Meusli, etc., are considered "healthy" when all they are is refined carbohydrate contributing to the obesity epidemic for many people.
    I prefer to look at the glycemic load of a meal as opposed to it's index. Even if the index is low but the load is enough, the pancreas will secrete more insulin and it's the amount of insulin over the course that influences this state. Refined carbs, again, need to have context. For some, they're a big problem, for others, just energy.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Insulin resistance is up because diabetes is up because obesity is up. Junk food as you put it has nothing to do with it for the most part except that junk may be a reason for overeating, and it is the overeating in conjunction with the overall well being of the individual that dictates insulin resistance.
    It's important to remember though that highly-refined carbohydrates DO give a higher spike in glucose/insulin, and a faster resultant drop in both - which is shown in many people to stimulate hunger (in the brain) which is what leads to over-eating in some cases.

    Either way, the result comes from over-eating, true. But it's not always as simple as some people suggest.

    There are many that suggest the way to lose weight is "only eat when you're hungry" ... well, if you're eating refined carbohydrate ... and you're one of those many people that gets hungry because of this ... you're GOING to over-eat.

    Not all refined carbohydrate is considered "junk". Too often things like "whole wheat bread", Grape Nuts, Meusli, etc., are considered "healthy" when all they are is refined carbohydrate contributing to the obesity epidemic for many people.
    I prefer to look at the glycemic load of a meal as opposed to it's index. Even if the index is low but the load is enough, the pancreas will secrete more insulin and it's the amount of insulin over the course that influences this state. Refined carbs, again, need to have context. For some, they're a big problem, for others, just energy.

    We really can't apply causation to diet or obesity. There are obese people who are not insulin resistant, and there are lean people who are. There are people who eat high-CHO diets without issue, and there are people who can't. Obesity and diabetes correlate, and they also correlate with a Westernized diet, which is high in both carbohydrates and fat.
  • BigGuy47
    BigGuy47 Posts: 1,768 Member
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    I prefer to look at the glycemic load of a meal as opposed to it's index. Even if the index is low but the load is enough, the pancreas will secrete more insulin and it's the amount of insulin over the course that influences this state. Refined carbs, again, need to have context. For some, they're a big problem, for others, just energy.
    yes, glycemic load is a better tool for estimating carb intake because it factors in portion size.
  • crisanderson27
    crisanderson27 Posts: 5,343 Member
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    And so it continues. I don't care about you know-it-all, self proclaimed "elite". You are welcome to be as ignorant as you like. What I do know is, I see plenty of people around here going on about how hard they work out and how they keep upping their calories etc... yet still can't LOSE weight. Hmmm..... why oh why can that be?! If you look in the food diaries of those people, you almost always see a list of processed garbage in their diet. When I look and see that complaint and that common thread between complaints, that tells me something.

    http://www.diabeteswellbeing.com/diabetes-statistics.html

    The ever increasing number of people with diabetes is nothing to sneeze at. Insulin resistance is not that rare as you all seem to believe. If it were so difficult to create insulin problems within the body, the numbers of people with diabetes would not be on the rise. The number of people diagnosed is up almost 10% since 2011. As the amount of processed "food" rich in lovely things like simple carbs, refined sugars, HFCS etc... increases, insulin problems also rise. Ignore it if you will. You will reap what you sow.

    I feel like I'm in some kind of religious debate. Self proclaimed elite lol? Seriously lady, your fanaticism has addled whatever reading comprehension you may have initially started with. No one claimed junk food should be the staple of any diet, much less a weight loss diet. What has been said is a calorie is a calorie, for all but those with true medical issues and/or food allergies (obviously).

    And by this I don't mean ones with self induced obesity related issues.

    As has been said, in the majority of your cases, insulin resistance is the EFFECT of obesity, not the cause. I've helped a fair numbee of people with the kind of stalling issues you described above. The problem was ALWAYS the fault of their training program, overestimated TDEE, or underestimated intake.

    ALWAYS.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    Second, no one, not one person on this site that I have EVER SEEN in over two years...says processed food is good for you. But yes, a calorie is a calorie when it comes to weight loss. Any number of REAL, peer reviewed studies (as in...not crap links that the used car salesman on the corner could have written) have proven it. Additionally...it it weren't true, I couldn't have done what I did first hand.

    I have seen posts on MFP say that processed food is good for you. I was once even told "there is plenty of scientific evidence that carbs, protein and fat are good for us" as a reason why McD was healthy.

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