Fat, Carb, Protein..& a new 4th Food Component?

FishingFan123
FishingFan123 Posts: 48 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Hi,

I have been reading some newer nutrition info, & a little confused on this new classification issue.

In the old days, there were 3 calorie components, that all things edible were made of:

Fats = 9 calories per gram
Carbohydrates = 4 calories per gram
Protein = 4 calories per gram.

Now, the newer things I am reading, is that alcohol is considered a separate category, at:

Alcohol = 7 calories per gram

But how can that be, as the things that go into it are made from fats, carbs & protein anyway.

This alcohol category raises new issues, as:

1). are sugar alcohols then classified as alcohols, or carbs?
2). How would you classify things then, that are alkenes, or amino acids? Would something that has a carboxyl group now be considered in a whole new category called Acids at xxx calories per gram?

Any organic chemistry insight into this from the chemists out there?

Thanks!

Replies

  • tekwriter
    tekwriter Posts: 923 Member
    I am no chemist of any kind, but my thoughts are that it is because it metabolizes differently. It is a carb free item, however it doesn't metabolize the same way as beef or fat. I know that it can have a delayed effect upon blood sugar.
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    alcohols r chemically different from fats, proteins, and carbs.
  • nsaglian
    nsaglian Posts: 29 Member
    You found the right person, FF123. I am a Chemist, a Ph.D. no less:bigsmile: Alcohol is different from the rest of those food groups in that when it is burned, it produces a certain amount of heat, which is reported in Calories. Unless one is drinking straight grain alcohol, a mixed drink, beer or wine will also have carbs, perhaps some protein, usually no fat. Regardless, the alcohol component is just different than the rest of the components in anything we eat or drink. It makes no difference where the alcohol was fermented from, it is the alcohol that counts.
    But these MAGIC values :
    Fats = 9 calories per gram
    Carbohydrates = 4 calories per gram
    Protein = 4 calories per gram.
    that the dieticians and medical folks are based on the Atwater System by Wilbur Olin Atwater (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atwater_system) which came about from studies done in the 1890! The heat values are determined by making some sort of adjustment (highly dubious) to the measured heat given off by burning a food sample in pure oxygen in a bomb calorimeter, which is chemical apparatus used to heats given off.
    There is a big difference between the combustion that takes place in the calorimeter, and the biological metabolism that takes place in your body. Unfortunately NOBODY in the medical/dietician arena wants to consider that! They have a number and they are sticking to it!

    Alcohol (C2H5OH) is metabolized much differently than any of the other food components, through various enzyme pathways. And it affects other metabolism pathways for the other food components, also.

    To answer these questions:
    1). are sugar alcohols then classified as alcohols, or carbs?
    2). How would you classify things then, that are alkenes, or amino acids? Would something that has a carboxyl group now be considered in a whole new category called Acids at xxx calories per gram?

    1) Sugar alcohols are carbs that are metabolized more slowly because of the molecular difference between then and a carbohydrate (which has some –OH groups on it as well). Sugar alcohols have extra –OH groups on them, which cause the metabolic enzymes to slow down.
    2) ALKENES! They are organic chemicals found in gasoline! You better not be ingesting any of them!
    3) Fats, carbohydrates and proteins ALL have carboxyl groups on them, so these would not be in any new category. BTW organic acids would be most like a carbohydrate!
    I would love to speak to you, directly to clear up any confusion.
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    You found the right person, FF123. I am a Chemist, a Ph.D. no less:bigsmile: Alcohol is different from the rest of those food groups in that when it is burned, it produces a certain amount of heat, which is reported in Calories. Unless one is drinking straight grain alcohol, a mixed drink, beer or wine will also have carbs, perhaps some protein, usually no fat. Regardless, the alcohol component is just different than the rest of the components in anything we eat or drink. It makes no difference where the alcohol was fermented from, it is the alcohol that counts.
    But these MAGIC values :
    Fats = 9 calories per gram
    Carbohydrates = 4 calories per gram
    Protein = 4 calories per gram.
    that the dieticians and medical folks are based on the Atwater System by Wilbur Olin Atwater (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atwater_system) which came about from studies done in the 1890! The heat values are determined by making some sort of adjustment (highly dubious) to the measured heat given off by burning a food sample in pure oxygen in a bomb calorimeter, which is chemical apparatus used to heats given off.
    There is a big difference between the combustion that takes place in the calorimeter, and the biological metabolism that takes place in your body. Unfortunately NOBODY in the medical/dietician arena wants to consider that! They have a number and they are sticking to it!

    Alcohol (C2H5OH) is metabolized much differently than any of the other food components, through various enzyme pathways. And it affects other metabolism pathways for the other food components, also.

    To answer these questions:
    1). are sugar alcohols then classified as alcohols, or carbs?
    2). How would you classify things then, that are alkenes, or amino acids? Would something that has a carboxyl group now be considered in a whole new category called Acids at xxx calories per gram?

    1) Sugar alcohols are carbs that are metabolized more slowly because of the molecular difference between then and a carbohydrate (which has some –OH groups on it as well). Sugar alcohols have extra –OH groups on them, which cause the metabolic enzymes to slow down.
    2) ALKENES! They are organic chemicals found in gasoline! You better not be ingesting any of them!
    3) Fats, carbohydrates and proteins ALL have carboxyl groups on them, so these would not be in any new category. BTW organic acids would be most like a carbohydrate!
    I would love to speak to you, directly to clear up any confusion.
    bro, i gotta send u a friend request! u know ur stuff!
  • FishingFan123
    FishingFan123 Posts: 48 Member
    Thank you nsaglian for your thorough & thoughtful post.

    To give me more info to read about, would you happen to know the names of the biochemical pathways that metabolize alcohols? I've taken biochem, but not from a human nutritional aspect, so I am weak in that area (& organic chemistry was 30 years ago, lol!)

    Myfitnesspal is turning into something fun actually, as I am meeting all kinds of interesting & well educated people! :)

    Thank you again!
  • nsaglian
    nsaglian Posts: 29 Member
    This link is good understandable explanation: http://themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/ethanol-metabolism.php

    The key pathway involves Alcohol Dehydrogenase (ADH) converting the ethanol first to Acetaldehyde and then aldehyde dehydrogenases (ALDH) converts this to Acetic Acid (which in your cells is Acetate).

    It has been 37 years since my undergrad Biochem course, and 27 years since a grad school course on Biophysical Chemistry, so I am very rusty, also.
  • teamdiarrhea
    teamdiarrhea Posts: 1
    Wow, very interesting and enlightening thread guys! Hence the term "empty calories" when it comes to alcohol… Looking at a shot of Maker's Mark for example, it has 69 calories and zero fat, protein, or carbs, which throws the P/C/F ratios off since the calories are added to your daily total. For estimation purposes shouldn't these calories really be added in to your carbs for calculation of PCF ratio?
  • kitza101
    kitza101 Posts: 99 Member
    2) ALKENES! They are organic chemicals found in gasoline! You better not be ingesting any of them!

    You are all kinds of awesome and you just made me snort tea on my keyboard :P

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