Are carbs the problem?

JAT74 · April 2013

Ok, so I've been logging ALL my calories on MFP since 2nd January and have been working out 6-7 days a week since then too (burning off 2500-3500 calories per week). I initially started by eating low calories (under 1000) but very quickly increased that to firstly eating 1300-1400 calories to then eating at a sedentary TDEE plus exercise calories (which was probably close to eating at mainenance as I was eating 2000+ some days), and since then I've also tried TDEE -15%, then TDEE -20% but saw very little weight loss in all cases. In fact the majority of my weight loss (4lbs total) occurred when I was eating very low calories and since then I've gone back up to where I started.

Each time I've adjusted my calories I've given my body a few weeks to adjust to the new level (3-5 weeks each time) and waited to see what happens which hasn't been much to be honest. I've lost a few inches but my weight went right back up to my starting weight and at most I've lost 1% body fat in all this time. The inch loss has stayed thankfully but I think my thighs have got a little bigger.

One other thing worth mentioning is that I've made a conscious effort to eat more protein and have also incorporated a lot more weight training into my schedule so I am not doing pure cardio.

Around 3 weeks ago I decided to try doing the 5:2 diet both for the health benefits and in order to find a manageable way of eating throughout the week so that I don't feel deprived as I had been as my overall calories had been quite low when split across the week. I started off with two days at approx 800 calories and calculated the other days after that. I have since reduced the numbers a bit and this week I'm going to try and eat 500-550 on my two fast days and calculate my calories for the other days.

So far I've found that I've finally been able to go back down 2lbs on 5:2 so I am now a grand total of 2lbs less than my January 2nd starting weigth and I'm now (last week and this week) eating at a deficit of 5250 calories so I'm hoping to be able to lose 1.5 lbs per week.

In terms fo the scale, since I started doing 5:2 I've noticed that the day after fast days the scale is reading around 1lb or so less than the previous day and then I have 1-2 days inbetween at higher calories before fasting again and so my weight will go up again and then on the 2nd fast day it will go back down by 1lb. Then I'll have 3-4 days of normal eating again and the scale goes up so if I weigh myself each week it doesn't really seem to be dropping overall (so far).

I really can't understand what the problem is as it's been almost 4 months of trying everything I can think of and following a lot of advice given to me on here with very little results. I'm extremely frustrated but I want to stick with 5:2 due to the supposed health benefits and also the fact it allows me to eat a little more 5 days a week rather than eating less all week.

I am starting to think that the only thing which will help me finally shift the weight now (although I'm really looking to shift body fat more than scale weight) is going low carb which I was really trying to avoid as I hate eating like that. I love bread, rivita and cereal although I rarely eat potatoes, rice or pasta anyway and if I do it's always low quantities. A lot of days I already eat much lower carb than many people who eat 'normally' and I rarely eat carbs in the evenings unless I go out (that includes veg/fruit) but I'm starting to think that I'll have to consider drastically cutting carbs to less than 50g per day.

What does everyone think? I know that medically there's nothing wrong with me but given my body's response to everything I've tried so far and given past results I think that low carb OR low calories is the only way to go for me and low calories really doesn't appeal. My boyfriend is having a similar experience as he started 5:2 with me and he's seeing similar results. He's also cut out junk food except for once/twice a week and his weight has not changed more than 1lb in 3 weeks.

With 5:2 at the moment it works out that if my weekly calories were spread out evenly I'd be eating around 1350 calories per day anyway and I know I could go down a little further but with my activity level I don't want to do that.

Sorry for the post being so long but I would really like some opinions/tips from people who've had similar experiences.

myofibril · April 2013

Have you had your RMR professionally tested?

I'm not surprised at all you are frustrated. Sounds like a rubbish situation.

Take the guess work out of this. Once you know definitively what your RMR is things should fall into place. Lowering carbs to say 100g a day can be a good idea if you are fairly sedentary but calories balance is the overall determinant of fat loss.

StArBeLLa87 · April 2013

I have lost 20lbs in a month by eating around the same calories as you I keep my carbs under 85grams sticking to higher protein and fiber diet and eat good carbs and natural sugar items maybe a little to strict for most

Live4theLift · April 2013

Carbs are most likely not the problem. Although they will in time invrease your water weight. If you increased your weight training and your protein intake you are actually preserving your muscle from your weight loss. Since muscle and fat are lost during a diet and muscles weighs more than fat most people see a change on the scale and think wow I did great when actually they didn't lose a lot of fat just muscle mass. Your doing the right thing by doing this tht way the weight you do lose is mostly fat. Also depending on where u are at bf wise your body may be fighting you a lot more. I've been steady hitting 2lbs week until my body had enough now I'm fighting for a lb. it's all about your genetics really. Don't give up it takes time

StArBeLLa87 · April 2013

I'm so lost on this net thing I hear different things from everyone lol sorry I hope you figure this out if you do maybe you can get back to me that's on a serious note lol

JAT74 · April 2013

I'm sooooo frustrated! I would love to get my RMR tested, in fact I was talking to my boyfriend about that too yesterday but I can't do it at the moment as my budget won't allow it as I have no free medical cover where I am plus not sure if there's anywhere to get it done here anyway. I'm starting to think that maybe my BMR/RMR are much lower than that average and therefore I'll have to go the route of low calorie and drop my calories by 100 or so on my higher calorie days but then I'd be eating around 8500 overall per week and burning off 2500-3500 of that anyway which seems crazy!

My carbs are usually only around 100g as it is the majority of the time and on some days lower anyway so I'd probably have to drop them a lot more in order to start seeing benefits from this. I'm extremely sedentary apart from my workouts and maybe that's my problem but I have to be indoors most of the time sitting at a desk.

JAT74 · April 2013

As I've explained I'm currently doing 5:2 and that's why I'm netting low calories. Plus in the past few weeks I've increased my deficit so I have been generally netting around 1000 in total per day if you work out the average over a week.

When I was eating a lot more (eat more to weigh less and eating at just below maintenance) my weight went back up to my starting weight and then I was netting closer to 1500 but I saw very little difference then anyway. The only difference then really was that I wasn't losing any inches.

I also know that my BMR may not be correct and my calorie burn may also not be that accurate (even though I use a HRM) so if that's the case then my BMR may only be 1000 ish and calorie burn only 300 instead of 500 per day and therefore if I'm eating an average of 1300 per day it may not be enough of a deficit to lose any weight but that doesn't really explain why when I was eating a lot more I was not putting on tons more weight, just a couple of pounds.

StArBeLLa87 · April 2013

Search about net calories maybe reading others comments will help MFP is set up to eat calories back you need to at least eat 600 calories back according to your diaries your only netting 597 on most days

I could suggest to go by your bmr to be safe and deduct no more then a 1000 off that so you would lose 2lbs a day then net what ever that says or close to that after adding your calories burned

tekwriter · April 2013

I am much heavier so it is easier. I am just sticking to what it says I need to eat for however many pounds a week I want to lose. I eat back my exercise calories if I need to, if not I don't. Very simple and no calculating. Works well so far for me.

prattiger65 · April 2013

I'm just guessing but, your are not eating nearly enough. If I woke up in your place I would find out what my real numbers should be first. Then I would eat at maintenance for 2 weeks to reset my metabolism. After that I would drop to TDEE-10% for two weeks, then 15, then finally TDEE-20%. And be prepared to GAIN weight while you do a reset. But this is the healthy way. Good luck.

JAT74 · April 2013

Unfortunately it's not quite that simple and maybe I should close my diary for this reason! I set MFP calories to an amount just to have something written there but I have already calculated my daily and weekly calories using a formula I've got written elsewhere on spreadsheets which is based on TDEE -5250 overall during each week. I therefore ignore what's written on MFP and only use it for logging actual calories eaten. If you work out what I should be eating in total based on the formula I'm using it adds up to 1350 per day and that figure is already including exercise calories burned off. I only log my exercise calories on MFP so that I can see what I'm burning and make sure I'm doing enough exercise to allow my figures to add up.

For example my sedentary TDEE is 1750 per day so I work that out over a week and then add on my workout calories which average 400 per day. My daily calories therefore amount to 2150 per day and I add up that total over the week and subtract 5250 which is enough to lose 1.5lbs per week. I then have 2 days of eating 500 calories (approx) and the other days I split the remainder.

As you can see in reality the amount I've set on MFP is too high as I've already worked out my calories needed over the week taking into account my activity level elsewhere.

As I said before I've already tried MANY other methods including MFP method of eating back exercise calories based on the figures I input and nothing has worked so far except very low calories or 5:2 (a little weight loss so far) but then again I'm now eating less calories than I have over the past 3.5 months.

Samsambuca0785 · April 2013

WOW...I feel your frustration. What is your water intake like? I've never tried the 5:2 so I can't really comment on that.....My motto is eat clean and train dirty....I eat 5-6 small meals a day...i drink 2-3 liters of water a day. Have you looked at changing the way you exercise as your body may have become complaisant... try increasing your repetitions... increasing the weights you use. Try introducing HIIT workouts get your body thinking guessing and shocking your body. I know everyone is is different. I am using the insanity calculation for my calories. 655+(4.35 x weight in pounds) +(4.7 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age in years) then subtract 500. Have you checked your inches? I no longer go by weight alone as some time the needle has not moved at all but I have lost inches.

angieleighbyrd · April 2013

I'm sooooo frustrated! I would love to get my RMR tested, in fact I was talking to my boyfriend about that too yesterday but I can't do it at the moment as my budget won't allow it as I have no free medical cover where I am plus not sure if there's anywhere to get it done here anyway. I'm starting to think that maybe my BMR/RMR are much lower than that average and therefore I'll have to go the route of low calorie and drop my calories by 100 or so on my higher calorie days but then I'd be eating around 8500 overall per week and burning off 2500-3500 of that anyway which seems crazy!

My carbs are usually only around 100g as it is the majority of the time and on some days lower anyway so I'd probably have to drop them a lot more in order to start seeing benefits from this. I'm extremely sedentary apart from my workouts and maybe that's my problem but I have to be indoors most of the time sitting at a desk.

when you are sitting...switch from a chair to a stability ball...

JAT74 · April 2013

Thanks for the suggestions. I started off with Jillian Michaels which was HIIT/light weights and cardio for 7 weeks then started Insanity for 3-4 weeks then hit the gym and have been doing heavyier weights (as heavy a poss) with progressive weights each time for 3 sets each exercise 3 times a week for around a month now. I also do cardio 3 days ie. a walk, the gym machines or Insanity.

Plus I drink at least 1.5 litres of water per day!

I'll try the stability ball for part of my day too so thanks for that idea. I also have a lot of stairs at home so I try and use them as much as i can.

I should be ripped by now so don't know why it's not happening and it will be beach weather herw in a month so need something to change fast

JAT74 · April 2013

Any other feedback?

TavistockToad · April 2013

For example my sedentary TDEE is 1750 per day so I work that out over a week and then add on my workout calories which average 400 per day. My daily calories therefore amount to 2150 per day and I add up that total over the week and subtract 5250 which is enough to lose 1.5lbs per week. I then have 2 days of eating 500 calories (approx) and the other days I split the remainder.

i am not sure i follow your maths? the 5:2 diet is 5 days at normal cals, and then 2 days at 500. the 2 days at 500 create the deficit, but you have added a deficit before you work out your maintenance cals? doing 5:2 you should eat back exercise calories on normal days as well.

you have created a MASSIVE deficit by double counting.

you say you want to primarily lose bodyfat, but you only need a small deficit 2-400 cals per day for this. i know you say you have tried lots of things, and its frustrating, but you seem to have gone back and forth for months without actually sticking to anything more than 5 weeks.

JAT74 · April 2013

Sorry Tavistock Toad but I'm not sure I follow what you mean. I understand that the 2 days of 500 calories are to create a deficit but that's only approx 2000 calorie deficit over a 7 day period based on that if I was to eat much much more on the other days. I want to create enough of a deficit across the week to lose 1.5lbs per week therefore overall I need to eat 5250 calories less than my maintenance calories including exercise calories.

I've therefore worked out the total calories I need for the week including this deficit (which is around 9200 in total) and then I subtract 1000 (for the 2 fast) days and split the remainder across the other days of the week which amounts to around 1650 calories per day on the other days. This isn't double counting and I very much doubt it's any less than other people on 5:2 would be eating on their other days give or take a couple of hundred. It's quite a lot of food to eat and if I want a bit more say on weekends I generally have less on some week days so I can have a hundred or so more at weekends.

Yes of course I've gone back and forth, are you really telling me that ANYONE who's had the problems I've had would give it months and months doing the same thing without seeing some kind of change? As per advice I've been given I've given each thing a good few weeks not just a week or 2 to work.

TavistockToad · April 2013

why the mad rush to lose 1.5lb per week? wouldnt a smaller amount that actually comes off and stays off be better in the long run?

i know you're getting mad at the process, but try not to take it out on people who are actually trying to help....

JAT74 · April 2013

That's exactly the reason for trying to lose more weight as after nearly 4 months with 2lbs total weight loss I'm pretty desperate.

Plus I've realised that the deficit I've created on paper of 5250 is probably not very accurate as my BMR/TDEE are probably overestimated. I think I'm probably only creating enough of a deficit to lose 1lb or less per week in reality.

mich1902 · April 2013

I really feel your frustration. I've not lost much at all in pounds,inches or bodyfat. I strated lifting, eating clean since 3rd March and have lost not even 2 pounds. I was so frustrated last week I gave up but then I realised that it would just get worse so i've made an effort to get back to it from today. If I go with my calculated bmr and tdee i'm actaully told i can lose just under a pound a week but even that's not happening! I track my macros too and always make sure I have plenty of protein and good fats and fill the rest with good carbs. By the way I tried cutting carbs to 50g per day but I felt awful so I don't advise that. I normally eat 100g or under. I too have a desk job and my tdee is 1750 and my bmr 1350. It's ok people saying to give it time but I see plenty of people starting off my size with almost 30% body fat and then posting pics a month or two later and look amazing, almost ripped. Makes me wonder what I am doing wrong! I put weight on easily and find it hard to lose, always have. The one time I got down to goal was eating less calories than I am now, I wasn't actaully skinny fat because I was doing resistance work at the time and still ate adequate protein. This was at a time before i knew what bmr and tdee were though. I started with a 6 month goal until my holiday in August and I still look the same at 4 months until my holiday. Really disheartening but as that saying goes, the time will still pass anyway. I'm strating some hiit today, 3 x a week on top of my weights to see if that helps.

JAT74 · April 2013

Hi Mich1902

Please add me as a friend because you sound identical to me. In fact my TDEE and BMR are exactly the same as yours and I've had the same struggles with little success. I've also been weight training and doing cardio and HIIT some days too. I have a wedding in August so that's my goal month too but doesn't really look like I'll be there either!

I am so stressed about this and not sure what to do. This morning the scales said 145.5 lbs and 31% body fat and my starting weight in January was 147lbs and 31.5-32% body fat!!! The only comfort I have is the few inches I've lost but I still feel very anxious and upset about the situation. How many calories do you eat now? I also watch my macros and stick to carbs around 100 or less most days.

When I lost a lot of weight before I was doing mostly cardio and low protein so I was definitely skinny fat but now things have changed why isn't my weight?!

mich1902 · April 2013

Hey I've added you. When I use the scooby calculator it calculates my bmr as 1245 and tdee at only 1494!! that's for sitting at my desk all day and doing no exercise. By doing 3 x a week exercise I only get 1712 tdee. It just isn't working for me. We have similar starting weights too. You probably are an endomorph body type as well if you research that. I think sticking at 1200 cals is my only option for now and eating back a small percentage of exercise cals as a post workout. I'd be so happy too if I had lost inches or bodyfat(29%) but I haven't. What height are you? I'm only 5ft 4.

Kelbelle30 · April 2013

HI

Having made a large weight loss and lifestyle change a little while ago, I am now experiencing similar problems - low-level fluctuation and inability to get down any lower!

I've tried a variety of different schemes, from 5:2, low carb and six small meals, all of which show an initial drop then I go back up again!

I have to say, I've learned something new from each, and one thing I have noticed is how much better I feel without carbs - so I've pretty much cut them out of my diet (bread, pasta, rice etc) and fill up on veg. When I do give in and have carbs now, I feel a bit rubbish for a few days.

I think one of my issues is sticking to the diet for longer than five weeks and my desire to see quick results. I have said to myself I will continue with the healthy stuff I'm eating now (high protein, exercise etc) and sustain it for three months at least, rather than changing my food about too much. I will give myself something else to focus on - eg increasing my cycling distances weekly or heavier weights - and try not to scale watch!

I read something about people reaching a 'natural weight' - which I guess I am at 11st/5'8'' but I aspire to be very slim, and that's half my battle. People also say the last five-ten pounds to lose is the hardest.

Good luck!

KM

JAT74 · April 2013

Mich I'm also 5 foot 4! I tried scooby but my BMR is 1400 on there and TDEE is 2100 so they are definitely not correct!

JessHealthKick · April 2013

Hey,

I am in a somewhat similar situation.

I have been trying since the beginning of the year, so a good 3 months now. I have some bad days, but we are all human.

I am 5'7, 21 years and was 147lb at the beginning of the year. I am now about 140lb and apparnetly 32% body fat? I got a proper scan and was HORRIFIED because there is no F*CKING WAY I look like that according to pictures in charts. My BMR is 1400, so I will be increasing cals soon, even though I find it hard for some reason emotionally. Unlike you, I don't weigh every day... I weigh every few weeks. Only ever in the morning, after a good visit to the bathroom and before breakfast. Anyway...

I started at 1200, eating back *if* I exercised. I am quite sedentary as a student but ride my bicycle for 20~40mins a day to/from class. I have increased to 1400 for the past 3 weeks, and can say that the only time I really lost was when I was on a 2 week snowboarding trip (I didn't follow strictly then, but goal was meant to be 1200), burning some ridiculous calories daily, drinking protein twice a day and eating a fair bit but within reason. No limiting carbs there, I had rice for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. You can look at my diary March1~14

Something useful to you: I have Hashimoto's syndrome. This means my thyroid is hypo i.e. under-active. I am not currently on meds, but had been for some years since I was about 14. Apparently (acording to blood tests) all is good now, but I don't believe it.

GET YOUR THYROID CHECKED! This is why I think I battle like a crazy cat lazy to lose weight, hence why I don't beat myself up over it.

Furthermore, I am on the contraceptive pill HOWEVER I feel bloated and **** all the time when on it and cannot wait to get off it again (I recently took a couple of months off and it was great). I feel this makes me hungry like a crazy lady and very bloated. I can see it, I can feel it, I know it.
GET OFF THE PILL (IF YOU'RE ON IT)

Next, I started being (as much as possible) gluten free. Helped a lot with bloating, energy, stomach aches, headaches.. so yeah, everything? Acne I have had since I was 13 and had strong meds for (which didn't work) has reduced significantly. I would have gluten once a week though and also in some smaller things (I love a bit of chocolate or pudding, and I do have hand made pasta when I'm treated somewhere fancy).
CUT OUT ALL GLUTEN

However, I have a different approach to you. In the end, my goal is to feel good about myself, see some SLOW weight loss (which has happened gradually) and be happy with gaining some nice muscle. Current goal: bigger arm muscles than boyfriend, which is totally achievable, he's a skinny thread and makes me look like an elephant so I will be repping that

In the end I know there are some bad days for me. Yes I like to share a nice bottle of wine with my boy or have some nice pudding on the weekends. But my main diet is ridiculously heathy, I'd like to think. I don't any longer buy ANY processed foods. ZERO. I don't remember the last time I walked through the aisles except for tooth paste!

Today I had chicken with fresh tomatoes and onion for lunch, banana snack, brown rice and egg at breakfast, salmon sashimi for dinner, some yummy grapefruit and strawberries and 100cals of chocolate for dessert. So the chocolate was processed, shoot me, but that's it.

Any way, this was a long ramble, but just to let you know that you should calm down and not make this the centre of your existence. You should see being healthy and full of energy as the purpose (which I have found now I'm exercising more and it's great!) not just losing inches. This is a LIFESTYLE, NOT A DIET!

I personally need to not have those bad days, but it's so hard living in the best city (Tokyo) where there is f*ucking amazing food everywhere, amazing value, amazing chefs and amazing boyfriend feeding me this. Once I get off my birth control and don't have these bad days I know I can get to my goal but until then, while I'm here, I am happy with where I'm at

catodd · April 2013

What type of training are you doing? How long does each session last?

Moonbeem11 · April 2013

I know for myself, I lose not just more weight but fat doing low carbs. I especially pay attention the amount of sugar as well. The problem with bread and all that stuff is, it's not made the way it use to be made. The way it is processed makes most people allergic (not break out in hives kind) but just the way out bodies are naturally meant to process food, it interferes with it. And any allergic response can hinder weight loss, it throws the body out of whack. If you want to learn more I'd suggest a book called "Wheat Belly". I try to stick to rice for some carbs. Gluten free "made" foods usually have a lot of sugar or corn added. Corn is usually GMO which is another very bad, unnatural thing.

JAT74 · April 2013

Hi Jessica

In terms of thyroid problems I haven't had it checked but I have none of the symptoms of thyroid disease so I don't worry about that. I am on the pill though so that could account for some of my problems.

I also don't eat completely 'clean' but I've seen so many on here who don't either and look amazing and I love eating some processed foods (although not very much) so I'm kind of reluctant to give up things I like like BBQ sauce, other sauces and things like fish fingers, cereal around 3 days a week etc. although generally I make things from scratch and eat natural foods. I could give up gluten too but I've tried that in the past too with little improvement so I again switched back but now I eat less.

I don't want this to be my life but I'll never be happy until I lose the 'jiggle' of my thighs and upper arms and bum/small belly which at 31% body fat and mainly concentrated in these areas are not a pretty sight!

It also doesn't help that I spent most of my time in a hot climate where I have to wear minimal clothes to keep cool and want to do outdoor activities with friends like swimming etc. but am far too embarrassed to do due to my body fat %.

One way or another I have to find a way to do something about this. At your height and current weight you probably look pretty good but I'm pretty short so look 'chunky' rather than 'fit' which is how I want to be.

bunnygirl1978 · April 2013

I done a low carb diet last year, no carbs at all for 7days, I lost 7lb that week. The next week I had 50gr of carbs everyday, and I still lost 3lb.
I then went to 100gr of carbs and started exercising everyday only 20mins and a short swim 10 mins and I continued to lose 2lb each week.

It was HARD and I feel ill the 1st week with headaches and moody, but by the 3rd week I was cruising.
I made sure that I was eating 200gr of protein everyday too, it really is the key.

I was really strict as I was impatient and wanted to lose really quickly, which I did, but I put the majority of it back on after 6 months of no exercise and not watching my food.

I've started my diet again but I'm eating 50gr of carbs everyday and exercising every other day, I've lost the exact same as I did before 7lb in the first week.

You NEED carbs, but monitoring what your intake is against protein is KEY.

Mikemax125 · April 2013

When I cut body fat to under 8% the rule of thumb that I use is my Total fats +Total carbs never surpasses my Total Protein. for instance when I cut, my protein goal is around 250g. I prefer fats because I am not limited to foods like chicken breast or turkey bacon, tuna. My fats stay around 115-120g and my carbs will stay 120-130g but my Protein will ALWAYS total more than my fats/carbs combined and I stay around 2500 total calories without logging exercise if that makes any sense. Place some emhphasis on your Macros along with your calories. Keep that protein high for repair, fats and carbs for energy sources.

catodd · April 2013

What type of training are you doing? How long does each session last?

So. What type of trining are you doing? and how long does each session last?

Are carbs the problem?

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