Question re: TDEE & eating back exercise calories

Broejen
Broejen Posts: 414 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
By the time I even just net above my BMR everyday, my deficit is very low (like 150 calories or so my FitBit says). I was wondering, if I just bump up my every day activities, more errands & cleaning, etc. (which I don't log so I don't eat back the calories) to make my TDEE higher therefore making my deficit higher, why do I have to eat back the calories burned from doing a workout? I mainly walk for my exercise, today I walked 4.75km.

Does that question make sense? LOL

Replies

  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    Anyone?
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    What is your BMR, and how did you calculate it?
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    My BMR is 1485, based on BF% and the Katch-McCardle equation. On a regular day my TDEE is about 1750-1800 based on regular activities, not scheduled exercise.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    My BMR is 1485, based on BF% and the Katch-McCardle equation. On a regular day my TDEE is about 1750-1800 based on regular activities, not scheduled exercise.

    So if you net 1500 you should lose weight.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    By the time I even just net above my BMR everyday, my deficit is very low (like 150 calories or so my FitBit says). I was wondering, if I just bump up my every day activities, more errands & cleaning, etc. (which I don't log so I don't eat back the calories) to make my TDEE higher therefore making my deficit higher, why do I have to eat back the calories burned from doing a workout? I mainly walk for my exercise, today I walked 4.75km.

    Does that question make sense? LOL

    I'm not sure I understand your question? You need to log your exercise if you work out sedentary tdee as if you have too large a deficit it can have a negative effect on your weight loss - eating less and less isn't the best way to lose weight.
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    Yes, but the deficit isn't very large. My question is, if I just bump up the every day activities (stuff you don't log) to make my TDEE higher, is that okay? I mean, if I end up burning 200 calories more than normal just because I'm more active, and not eat them back because it wasn't scheduled exercise and there's no way to figure how much was burned doing what, what's the difference between that and burning 200 calories during a scheduled exercise and having to eat them back, therefore making my deficit the same low amount?

    Example:

    Day 1, I have more errands to run and cleaning to do so my TDEE ends up being 2000. I eat 1500 calories and have a deficit of 500.

    Day 2: I have a scheduled walk/workout where I burn 200 so my TDEE ends up being 2000, but I have to net 1500, so I eat them back. 1500+200= 1700 so the deficit is 300.

    I'm just curious as to why #1 is okay to do, but #2 I have to eat back my calories and the deficit ends up being less.
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    I'm not sure I understand your question? You need to log your exercise if you work out sedentary tdee as if you have too large a deficit it can have a negative effect on your weight loss - eating less and less isn't the best way to lose weight.

    Even just trying to net my BMR only gives me a deficit of 150-200. How can I eat more but still lose? My deficit would be almost nil if I eat even 100 more a day.

    But my main question is, is it safe to just bump up my every day activities to get a higher TDEE? If I do a scheduled exercise, I eat back the calories to stay above my BMR, therefore making my deficit just as much as if I didn't exercise at all.

    Maybe I am just confusing you guys more. LOL
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    Can anyone answer my question in the last post?
  • FaerieCae
    FaerieCae Posts: 437 Member
    Ok yes the way youre wording that is confusing. If you do tdee-20% ... you dont eat exercise calories back cause its factored in already. What did you set your activity level to?
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    I like to eat back my exercise calories because I don't have a set schedule, so I set it to sedentary (1782) and I believe that is pretty right on because of my FitBit numbers.

    So what is the difference between example 1 & 2? If I'm just more active throughout the day to make a higher TDEE, I can't really log any calorie burns so I don't eat anything back right? So when I exercise and I can log the burns, I have to eat it back?
  • GiddyNZ
    GiddyNZ Posts: 136 Member
    The difference between 1 and 2 is that for the rest of us who aren't wearing a fitbit the extra colories burned during a busy day are just a bonus.. we still exercise on top of that.. nbut only eat back the exercise calories.

    It is up to you what you chose to do with the data that you have collected, you could enter any extra calories above a base TDEE as general housework and eat them back if you choose.

    It would make sense to work on a calculation of "sedentary TDEE - 20% + extra burned" to get a more consistent deficit.

    My thoughts anyway.
  • wild_wild_life
    wild_wild_life Posts: 1,334 Member
    I think I see what you're asking . . . The problem is the concept of "net" doesn't really apply if you are doing the BMR/TDEE thing, it only applies to the MFP method. So dont worry about net. As you point out, how you burn the calories doesn't matter. I think you can simplify it by choosing a TDEE for your typical day (that's how TDEE is meant to be, it's not meant to change each day) and eat at a cut off that (say a 500 cal per day or a 15-20% cut). If once in a blue moon you exercise and think you've burned 500 extra calories that day, eat a bit more if you think you need it. I think you are overthinking it.

    ETA: The whole purpose of "net" is to make sure people don't eat too little on the MFP plan becaue the deficit is taken from basic activity level, not exercise, and they assume people are going to exercise so don't want the deficit to increase. With TDEE, especially if you have a fitbit, you can just take a cut off whatever your calorie expenditure is that day, don't worry about netting any specific amount. And yes, it's fine to net below your BMR. It's necessary if your BMR and TDEE are very close.
  • GamerLady
    GamerLady Posts: 359 Member
    More errands and cleaning I wouldn't count as burning more calories as it's probably very minor.
  • 2hobbit1
    2hobbit1 Posts: 820 Member
    Since you have a fitbit use it to decide what you TDEE is. Look at your weekly reports and see the average it gives you. Set your calorie goal manually on MFP to the deficit of your choise - 250 - 500 is a good number for sustainable loss. Don't use the MFP generated settings. You can increase your TDEE by being more active - it does not need to be gym based or "formal" exercise. Walking more, doing more stairs, etc will all factor into your daily TDEE. A calorie burned is a calorie burned as far as weight loss is concerned. If you want to work on heart health or bone health then you need to do some cardio and strength training. But any movement will increase your TDEE. You can see that on your fitbit records - look at the difference between a sleep in/ couch potato day vs a run your *kitten* ragged errand and chore day. Every step counts!
  • katevarner
    katevarner Posts: 884 Member
    Which Fitbit are you using? My Fitbit gives me a TDEE about 500 calories lower than my BodyMedia Fit. And I'm maintaining eating within 100 calories of what the BMF says, and lost staying about 500 under what it says. If I only ate what Fitbit told me I could, I'd still be losing. Last week it tells me I burned 3083 fewer calories than I ate. I weighed exactly the same thing on the first day of the week as I did the last.
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    Right now my TDEE is about 1790 doing my regular day so if I take off 20% of that it goes lower than my BMR. I do still have about 60lbs to lose so you would think -20% would be okay. LOL I'm just wondering about the whole "eat back calories" thing because I don't want to go below my BMR. I guess I'm doing okay with 1500 + exercise calories.

    I'm sure I confused everyone and I don't know if I got a true answer to my question, but thanks for trying! :)
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    Which Fitbit are you using? My Fitbit gives me a TDEE about 500 calories lower than my BodyMedia Fit. And I'm maintaining eating within 100 calories of what the BMF says, and lost staying about 500 under what it says. If I only ate what Fitbit told me I could, I'd still be losing. Last week it tells me I burned 3083 fewer calories than I ate. I weighed exactly the same thing on the first day of the week as I did the last.

    I have a FitBit One. I've been plateauing since January and even though I am lower every week, I don't lose the weight expected. That's why I'm trying the EM2WL, but the Eat More part isn't easy when I don't know what amount I can eat!
  • ashbash115
    ashbash115 Posts: 24
    OMG i think this is the same confusion Im having. According to mfp my body naturally burn 2,230 calories a day not including what I burn by exercising. Does that count as part of the 3,500 needed to loose a pound
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    I think I see what you're asking . . . The problem is the concept of "net" doesn't really apply if you are doing the BMR/TDEE thing, it only applies to the MFP method. So dont worry about net. As you point out, how you burn the calories doesn't matter. I think you can simplify it by choosing a TDEE for your typical day (that's how TDEE is meant to be, it's not meant to change each day) and eat at a cut off that (say a 500 cal per day or a 15-20% cut). If once in a blue moon you exercise and think you've burned 500 extra calories that day, eat a bit more if you think you need it. I think you are overthinking it.

    ETA: The whole purpose of "net" is to make sure people don't eat too little on the MFP plan becaue the deficit is taken from basic activity level, not exercise, and they assume people are going to exercise so don't want the deficit to increase. With TDEE, especially if you have a fitbit, you can just take a cut off whatever your calorie expenditure is that day, don't worry about netting any specific amount. And yes, it's fine to net below your BMR. It's necessary if your BMR and TDEE are very close.

    If you are correct about not worrying about net calories, then I believe you have answered my question. Thank you! I was wondering why I needed to eat back calories when I exercise, but not when I'm just more active overall.

    And yes, GamerLady, doing errands and cleaning can certainly burn more than just "very minor" calories.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    I like to eat back my exercise calories because I don't have a set schedule, so I set it to sedentary (1782) and I believe that is pretty right on because of my FitBit numbers.

    So what is the difference between example 1 & 2? If I'm just more active throughout the day to make a higher TDEE, I can't really log any calorie burns so I don't eat anything back right? So when I exercise and I can log the burns, I have to eat it back?

    then don't do TDEE and just eat your exercise calories back..
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    OMG i think this is the same confusion Im having. According to mfp my body naturally burn 2,230 calories a day not including what I burn by exercising. Does that count as part of the 3,500 needed to loose a pound

    Technically yes, but not really. Your body needs those calories to run, therefore you need to eat to keep it going. As long as your intake is 3500 less than what you ate, then you will lose. Make sure you don't eat too little though or you will plateau like me. If your TDEE is 2300, I would think you could eat about 1700 per day.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    OMG i think this is the same confusion Im having. According to mfp my body naturally burn 2,230 calories a day not including what I burn by exercising. Does that count as part of the 3,500 needed to loose a pound

    if you eat at 500 a day deficit then you will lose one pound per week...500 * 7 days a week = 3500 calories burned per week aka one pound...in your case 2230 - 500 = 1730 per day. You could go for 700 a day and that would be 1530 per day....


    If you are doing TDEE -20% then you do not eat back your exercise calories as they are included in TDEE calculation..

    if you are not doing TDEE - 20% then you eat back exercise calories ....
  • wild_wild_life
    wild_wild_life Posts: 1,334 Member
    I think I see what you're asking . . . The problem is the concept of "net" doesn't really apply if you are doing the BMR/TDEE thing, it only applies to the MFP method. So dont worry about net. As you point out, how you burn the calories doesn't matter. I think you can simplify it by choosing a TDEE for your typical day (that's how TDEE is meant to be, it's not meant to change each day) and eat at a cut off that (say a 500 cal per day or a 15-20% cut). If once in a blue moon you exercise and think you've burned 500 extra calories that day, eat a bit more if you think you need it. I think you are overthinking it.

    ETA: The whole purpose of "net" is to make sure people don't eat too little on the MFP plan becaue the deficit is taken from basic activity level, not exercise, and they assume people are going to exercise so don't want the deficit to increase. With TDEE, especially if you have a fitbit, you can just take a cut off whatever your calorie expenditure is that day, don't worry about netting any specific amount. And yes, it's fine to net below your BMR. It's necessary if your BMR and TDEE are very close.

    If you are correct about not worrying about net calories, then I believe you have answered my question. Thank you! I was wondering why I needed to eat back calories when I exercise, but not when I'm just more active overall.

    And yes, GamerLady, doing errands and cleaning can certainly burn more than just "very minor" calories.

    Good! To me, net calories is a silly concept, and your question illustrates why. It's about what you expend vs what you take in. I think net can only be applied in the specific context of the MFP "plan".

    You hear a lot of people around here advising not to eat below or net below your BMR and I think it's a great way to keep a moderate deficit but there is no physiological reason for it. In cases like yours it limits you to a 200-300 cal deficit or approx 1/2 lb per week rate of loss. I think it's generally agreed that a moderate deficit is better than a large deficit (if slower) so you have find a balance between sustainability and rate of loss that you are comfortable with.
  • Mock_Turtle
    Mock_Turtle Posts: 354 Member
    Well I'm going to be the lone wolf like usual but if you have 60 lbs to lose I don't see any issue with trying for 1.5 lb/wk which is roughly a 750 cal/day deficit.

    You're going to have to move more if you want to eat more and still have that deficit.
  • Broejen
    Broejen Posts: 414 Member
    Well I'm going to be the lone wolf like usual but if you have 60 lbs to lose I don't see any issue with trying for 1.5 lb/wk which is roughly a 750 cal/day deficit.

    You're going to have to move more if you want to eat more and still have that deficit.

    It's not that I want to eat more, I just want to make sure I am not starving my body by being too low, but I still want the best deficit possible. I was netting between 1100-1250 most days in the fall but since January I have only lost 5lbs doing the same thing, so obviously something isn't right. I can't get the deficit to lose 1.5lbs a week because my TDEE is too close to my BMR!

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