This was hard for me to read.

soldier4242
soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
in Chit-Chat
Another MFP user post this link:

http://news.yahoo.com/2nd-child-pa-couple-dies-only-praying-111713837.html

I did not realize how much reading this would affect me. The article is basically about a couple that chose to use prayer to treat their children's illnesses instead of taking them to the doctor. They lost one kid trying this and later they did it again. At first I was just angry with the parents for their neglect but then I found myself thinking about the children themselves.

I thought about them laying in beds a home suffering and the people responsible for taking care of them were choosing not to because the believed that by using prayer that they were doing something. If the story was about parents doing nothing then everyone would be united in one voice blaming the parents. Since they said they were using prayer there are people actually speaking out in their defense.

What is it that separates the normal church going Christians that I have friendly lunches with and we debate each day but at the end of the day we all know the drill. They will go on an on about the power of prayer and they say they believe god will heal the sick but at the end of the day when their kids get sick I know they are going to take the kids to the hospital and let the kids get healing by actual effort put for by men and women of science.

I believe that most Christians would take their kids to the doctor. They would probably say that god gave us the science or something like that. I think that is a fine way of going about it. I honestly don't mind if someone simply says that they can pray a sickness away as long as they don't actually try to do it.

Does this couple have enough scriptural backing to actually support their claim? I can think of a few scriptures off the top of my head that might give that impression.

Matthew 17:20
Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.

Matthew 21:22
If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

Since I am not a Christian I am asking for some insight from actual believers. I don't think this couple have any issues with faith so what is your take on all of this. Is their understanding of the scriptures wrong? I am making a real effort to step outside of my own point of view and listen to the perspective of a believer with regard to something like this. I do anticipate some vitriol and I am sure a good bit of it will be directed at me but I think this is something that deserves delving in to.

I know this is long and I am sorry for that but this is a heavy topic. I may not be able to respond to this till tomorrow. Some of you that wish to respond might prefer to send a private message and that is fine with me.
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Replies

  • MelsAuntie
    MelsAuntie Posts: 2,833 Member
    That was child neglect, pure and simple. The religious part is of no importance.
  • nicarey19
    nicarey19 Posts: 126 Member
    I read that story yesterday, heartbreaking. I too would like to know what other people's responses are as I am not a Christian either. I was growing up, but no longer. And I can tell you my parents/family always took us to the doctor. Very sad story:(
  • Flab2fitfi
    Flab2fitfi Posts: 1,349 Member
    I must admit I read the same news report and felt sick.

    I wonder where the authorities were as they had previous history. I can understand people having faith but this goes way beyond that.
  • Tuffjourney
    Tuffjourney Posts: 971
    That was child neglect, pure and simple. The religious part is of no importance.

    Yep, and I believe it was their second time they let a child die.
  • lina1131
    lina1131 Posts: 2,246 Member
    I can't read anything that has to do with kids suffering. :sad: :sad: :sad:
  • m76b
    m76b Posts: 1,498 Member
    That was child neglect, pure and simple. The religious part is of no importance.

    this

    you can believe and go to the doctor.... i take my kids to the doctor everytime they are sick... and I believe

    that is crazy .. how can u see your child dying and ... do nothing???
  • pastryari
    pastryari Posts: 8,646 Member
    Reminds me of the book The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down, except it's more culture than religion.
  • Ivian_
    Ivian_ Posts: 276 Member
    Honestly, I'd love to contribute something more valuable to this thread...but I stopped reading that article when I read, "their seven other children" and my blood started to boil. :explode:
  • Jersey_Devil
    Jersey_Devil Posts: 4,142 Member
    tumblr_lwg6i8oZFq1qzjix8.gif
  • kmbweber2014
    kmbweber2014 Posts: 680 Member
    I am a Christian and this is so wrong to me. I believe God gives people gifts and talents and the ability to use those gifts and talents to help other people. Bringing their child to the doctor could have answered their prayers, I'm sure there was a doctor or a nurse that had the ability to help them.
  • sunflowerhippi
    sunflowerhippi Posts: 1,099 Member
    That was child neglect, pure and simple. The religious part is of no importance.

    Yep, and I believe it was their second time they let a child die.

    Yes, both from minor things that are 100% cureable. Child abuse, no question about it.
  • surromom2010
    surromom2010 Posts: 457 Member
    When I read stuff like that all I can think of is hey, let's put the parents in a locked room, and let them pray they don't die of starvation, we'll see what fills their stomachs, faith or food. Maybe they'd think twice about neglecting a child and not giving them the treatment they deserve. Both of them deserve the death penalty, slow and painful, disgusting,
  • wick09
    wick09 Posts: 22 Member
    I think when it comes to children, then drs/medicine need to be used. A child can't tell you if he/she wants this or that religion.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
    I can't read this. The Christian thing to do, the human thing to do, is give that child, ANY child, the best that medicine has to offer.
  • lcharity79
    lcharity79 Posts: 94 Member
    I'm a Christian, and if I'm sick or if my child were sick...while we would definitely pray for healing, we would also use the good sense God gave us and go to the doctor as well. Do I believe that ultimately God provides the healing itself? Absolutely...the human body is an amazing creation. Even if you go to the doctor, and they repair what is broken and send you home with pain meds, antibiotics, etc..., as a general rule, the last thing they tell you is that now it is time to go home and wait for "it" (the wound, sickness, etc.) to run its course and HEAL. Doctors do wonderful things...and assist in facilitating that healing process...I personally am a big fan! ;-)

    However, I can also attest to the fact that I have seen miracles happen...and healings take place. I've heard stories of doctors who said there was no more hope...only to see God perform a miracle and work things out...leaving those same doctors scratching their head trying to understand what happened! Life is mysterious...I believe we should always pray and seek God for healing...but also use the wisdome we are granted to make good choices.

    Good post!
  • CallMeCupcakeDammit
    CallMeCupcakeDammit Posts: 9,377 Member
    Something similar happened to a young kid in Baltimore last year, maybe the year before. :brokenheart:
  • JewelsinBigD
    JewelsinBigD Posts: 661 Member
    all those kids should be removed and adopted out - this is just silliness. neglect on the part of the government as well as the parents. Freedom of religion is one thing - stupidity is something else.
  • kevinjb1
    kevinjb1 Posts: 233 Member
    People can have all the faith in the world about the after life (I'm a Christian), but they can't forget that currently they are living beings in a physical world where sickness and death happens constantly. Using physical means to heal a physical body just makes logical sense.
  • riouxha
    riouxha Posts: 995 Member
    I think the best thing i've ever heard, was working on a medical unit once, we had a christian group come in and ask to give the us (nurses) a blessing. i was raised catholic, but am not a church goer or probably even a believer. But they did say 'let their hands be your hands and their healing touch be your healing touch'. is it not enough that if you believe in god, he provided those who are able to take care of your sick loved ones?
  • AnninStPaul
    AnninStPaul Posts: 1,372 Member
    I am a Christian and this is so wrong to me. I believe God gives people gifts and talents and the ability to use those gifts and talents to help other people. Bringing their child to the doctor could have answered their prayers, I'm sure there was a doctor or a nurse that had the ability to help them.

    ^^THIS. When the answer to your prayers is down the street, you don't ignore it because it's too far away. It's like praying to win the lottery and being too dumb to buy a ticket.

    The couples remaining children have been put in foster care.
  • jcjsjones
    jcjsjones Posts: 571 Member
    I am a believer and also believe in healing. My own daughter was healed.....HOWEVER

    God gave us brains and common sense for a reason. He also gave doctors the ability to learn about how our bodies work for a reason.

    This is child neglect...bottom line.
  • elleloch
    elleloch Posts: 739 Member
    I'm a Christian, and I believe in the power of prayer.

    I also believe that God put doctors on this earth and that I can pray for the doctor's hand as he treats my very ill child.
  • Heaffym
    Heaffym Posts: 6 Member
    I'm a Christian, although I'm just recently beginning to really read through the Bible and study it - but basically I think those people, obviously, took it to an extreme. I think that if you pray and have faith, things will happen, but it's not like magic. I think God did answer the prayer in a way because the people have resources. God can't go around healing every person that is ill that prays for it because if He did then it would be like a normal occurrence and no kind of miracle or something special. Instead we were given our brains and ability to think and make decisions on our own. Those people had/were given the resources to treat their child (the doctor) so, at least in my opinion, God was answering their prayer in a way, but the people just didn't realize what they should have been doing, I guess; the story is very upsetting and I feel awful for the poor kids ):

    Sorry for rambling; hope this made sense :')
  • HannahJDiaz25
    HannahJDiaz25 Posts: 329 Member
    I am a Christian. I can find no Scripture supporting the actions of the parents. I believe that God allows events to happen on earth as a consequence of our actions. If we refuse to go the doctor for something he could give us medicine for and heal then the consequence will be not getting better. Its very sad to see children suffer as a consequence of their parents misguided fervor! there is nothing in the Bible against doctors. Luke was doctor.
  • Jersey_Devil
    Jersey_Devil Posts: 4,142 Member
    I pray the guys pee pee falls off. He shouldnt be having any more kids.
  • Espressocycle
    Espressocycle Posts: 2,245 Member
    On another note. while acute healthcare is available to all Americans through the emergency room, many people die early due to lack of access to routine care and management of health and chronic conditions.
  • skinnylynnie74
    skinnylynnie74 Posts: 154 Member
    My brother joined a very similar church when he married. Tragedy has already visited their young family, but they say it is God's will. I am a born-again Christian and my pastor and my parents and I all believe that their church is a CULT. But we remain close to them, because we love them and we feel it is the best way to keep an eye on the health of my nieces and nephew. Avoiding medical care is not biblical. The verses they quote to me to justify their decision are 1) when Jesus told the man to stretch out his hand and it was no longer withered. And 2) there is a verse that says to "trust no man." But the author of the Gospel, Luke, was a doctor. And Paul told Timothy to take a little wine to heal his stomach. It is disheartening to hear that another little one has died at the hands of the very people God entrusted to take care of him. So sad. Makes me cry for my baby niece, who would be 8, if she had survived what should have been a normal birth. Thanks for listening.
  • wykyd
    wykyd Posts: 68 Member
    So I have no answer either. First, I'm not a Christian any more. I used to be. In fact, I used to be a minister so I was the one counseling folks to pray. However, even when I did so, I never even considered the idea of refraining from putting one foot in front of another to get where you need to go. Even when I was a believer, God provided the ability to get up off your *kitten* and do what needs to be done. Today, of course, I don't believe that comes from the God of the bible but of our own ability.

    All that said, IMHO, there is no one who can answer this. There is NO reason to abuse a child. Granted, there are passages in the bible that encourage all sorts of things (including child abuse, rape, murder, etc) but as a (semi) rational society, I cannot believe any (semi) sane person has not moved beyond that. And of course to contradict even myself, I once had a woman come to me to help me find the passage that gave her permission to murder her ex husband. I gave her several and then gave her several that clearly explained it was not a good thing to do (duh!) along with what was hopefully a valuable lesson in her own ability to discern right from wrong.

    Point is, perhaps the only thing we can do is grieve for these children and prevent these people from doing it again.
  • swissbrit
    swissbrit Posts: 201
    I do not belive in A God I belive in good and bad and trying to do your best to help others no matter how, I would die for my kids ( now teenagers) without blinking an eyelid as I do belive that we are more than the bodies we experience life in. Hurting children is the biggest crime on the planet as they cannot protect themselves and we as adults should be there for them even if they are not our own, just look at the little girl in india who was sexually abused at the age of 5 we should be ashamed of ourselves as a race for letting this happen.
  • holly1283
    holly1283 Posts: 741 Member
    I am a Bible based Christian and my answer to this is that it is inexcusable. Even the people in the Bible brought people to Jesus to be healed. We need to do our part with prayer but use the opportunities of modern science that we have available to us in this modern time. Not all prayers are answered the way we want anyway. AS far as I'm concerned they should be prosecuted for neglect.
    Jesus said let the little children come unto me( and that was while they were alive).
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