Questions about carbs
Thebetterman1
Posts: 23
Hi can anyone give me a deph explanation of carbs in terms of losing weight. I know that when people start a high protein - low carb diet, they start to lose weight fast at first. But this weight is all water weight? ( correct me if im wrong) But afterwards, they start to regain back their weight? And does carb cause water retention to make your muscles look bigger? Should i go back regularly eating my carbs? With a 40-40-20 ( protein carbs, and fat) macro
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Most people that lose weight on low-carb diets do it with low-carb, high-fat, moderate protein. This is typically no more than 25% protein ... A diet of 40% protein would cause some to be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis, negating one of the primary effects that low-carb dieters strive for - that being reduced serum glucose levels.
To experience lots of water-weight loss one must usually go to ketogenic levels - this is typically less than 10% of calories from carbohydrate and greater than 65% from fat, with the rest protein.
The loss of water weight is due to the reduction in muscle and liver glycogen stores, which are comprised mostly of water, thus the weight loss.
Why low-carb works for many people is:
1) reducing carbohydrate intake also causes a reduction in hunger and cravings for many people - they simply intake fewer calories.
2) reducing carbohydrate intake in someone with impaired glucose tolerance (diabetes, metabolic-syndrome, pre-diabetes, or any reason for insulin-resistance) helps tremendously with glycemic (blood sugar) control, and could help balance out hormone levels, increasing the persons metabolism.
3) reducing intake to ketogenic levels (under 5% carb and greater-than 65% fat) will cause a person to become keto-adapted over time, where the body primarily burns ketones and fatty-acids (ie: body fat) for fuel instead of glucose. This is shown extremely beneficial in fat-loss for the obese.
As for regaining weight - many people regain weight simply because they stop low-carbing, drastically change their diet, sometimes negatively affecting their metabolism, and take in more calories than they should. Everybody that chooses a very-low-carb diet for weight-loss should, once they reach their weight goal, gradually reintroduce carbohydrate while ensuring calories stay at maintenance levels. The people that regain weight don't do that.
Yes, an increase in carbohydrate can make your muscles look a little bigger - due to increases in water volume. This is especially true if you also supplement with creatine monohydrate during your carb re-feed.
As for what you should or shouldn't eat? First, nobody needs 40% protein. Nobody, not even professional bodybuilders. That's a well-established medical fact.
Current scientific research shows no benefit in having more than 1.8g of protein per kg of body mass when looking for muscular hypertrophy.
Alan Aragon, widely considered an expert in the field, recommends 1.5 to 2.0g per kg of body weight for most people engaging in strength training but also states he's not opposed to 3g per kg of body weight for those with higher needs.
Lyle McDonald, also widely considered an expert in the field recommends up to 3.3g per kg of body weight for those he terms "strength and power athletes" which probably only refers to a very small segment of the population.0 -
Carbs are just carbs. Unless you're trying to go into keto for some strange reason, you really don't need to think about carbs at all.
If you're losing weight, you should eat about 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass for maximum muscle retention. You should eat about 0.35 grams of fat per pound of total body mass for hormonal balance and other things. The rest of your calories should come from carbs.
It's that simple. For weight loss, eat fewer calories than you burn.
Don't overcomplicate things and don't get sucked into special diets that prohibit certain foods or demonize certain nutrients.0 -
Carbs are just carbs. Unless you're trying to go into keto for some strange reason, you really don't need to think about carbs at all.
If you're losing weight, you should eat about 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass for maximum muscle retention. You should eat about 0.35 grams of fat per pound of total body mass for hormonal balance and other things. The rest of your calories should come from carbs.
It's that simple. For weight loss, eat fewer calories than you burn.
Don't overcomplicate things and don't get sucked into special diets that prohibit certain foods or demonize certain nutrients.
Do you realize how ironic this is?0 -
Carbs are just carbs. Unless you're trying to go into keto for some strange reason, you really don't need to think about carbs at all.
If you're losing weight, you should eat about 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass for maximum muscle retention. You should eat about 0.35 grams of fat per pound of total body mass for hormonal balance and other things. The rest of your calories should come from carbs.
It's that simple. For weight loss, eat fewer calories than you burn.
Don't overcomplicate things and don't get sucked into special diets that prohibit certain foods or demonize certain nutrients.
Do you realize how ironic this is?
In what way?0 -
Most people that lose weight on low-carb diets do it with low-carb, high-fat, moderate protein. This is typically no more than 25% protein ... A diet of 40% protein would cause some to be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis, negating one of the primary effects that low-carb dieters strive for - that being reduced serum glucose levels.
To experience lots of water-weight loss one must usually go to ketogenic levels - this is typically less than 10% of calories from carbohydrate and greater than 65% from fat, with the rest protein.
The loss of water weight is due to the reduction in muscle and liver glycogen stores, which are comprised mostly of water, thus the weight loss.
Why low-carb works for many people is:
1) reducing carbohydrate intake also causes a reduction in hunger and cravings for many people - they simply intake fewer calories.
2) reducing carbohydrate intake in someone with impaired glucose tolerance (diabetes, metabolic-syndrome, pre-diabetes, or any reason for insulin-resistance) helps tremendously with glycemic (blood sugar) control, and could help balance out hormone levels, increasing the persons metabolism.
3) reducing intake to ketogenic levels (under 5% carb and greater-than 65% fat) will cause a person to become keto-adapted over time, where the body primarily burns ketones and fatty-acids (ie: body fat) for fuel instead of glucose. This is shown extremely beneficial in fat-loss for the obese.
As for regaining weight - many people regain weight simply because they stop low-carbing, drastically change their diet, sometimes negatively affecting their metabolism, and take in more calories than they should. Everybody that chooses a very-low-carb diet for weight-loss should, once they reach their weight goal, gradually reintroduce carbohydrate while ensuring calories stay at maintenance levels. The people that regain weight don't do that.
Yes, an increase in carbohydrate can make your muscles look a little bigger - due to increases in water volume. This is especially true if you also supplement with creatine monohydrate during your carb re-feed.
As for what you should or shouldn't eat? First, nobody needs 40% protein. Nobody, not even professional bodybuilders. That's a well-established medical fact.
Current scientific research shows no benefit in having more than 1.8g of protein per kg of body mass when looking for muscular hypertrophy.
Alan Aragon, widely considered an expert in the field, recommends 1.5 to 2.0g per kg of body weight for most people engaging in strength training but also states he's not opposed to 3g per kg of body weight for those with higher needs.
Lyle McDonald, also widely considered an expert in the field recommends up to 3.3g per kg of body weight for those he terms "strength and power athletes" which probably only refers to a very small segment of the population.
THIS person is pretty much dead on. i lost alot of weight on low carb but have not gained it all back like everyone says will happen. Now i eat 200 g carbs per day but as long as i keep my calories in check i dont gain weight.0 -
Eater at or slightly below what mfp has me at for carbs this past week has helped me a bunch with hunger, cravings, eating at or below my calorie intake and the "afternoon slump"! I would say there's no need to go extremely low like some special diets but just make a point to stay at your set carb level0
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Well, let's be honest ... Jonny doesn't prohibit or demonize anything.
Do you realize how ironic this is?Carbs are just carbs. Unless you're trying to go into keto for some strange reason, you really don't need to think about carbs at all.
If you're losing weight, you should eat about 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass for maximum muscle retention. You should eat about 0.35 grams of fat per pound of total body mass for hormonal balance and other things. The rest of your calories should come from carbs.
It's that simple. For weight loss, eat fewer calories than you burn.
Don't overcomplicate things and don't get sucked into special diets that prohibit certain foods or demonize certain nutrients.
He's also fairly correct with one caveat - that his advice doesn't apply to those with any medical/physiological reason for restricting carbohydrate in their diet.
... and he knows that, but he does like to leave out certain facts that SHOULD 'go without saying' just to see people rabidly attack him. 0 -
Well, let's be honest ... Jonny doesn't prohibit or demonize anything.
Do you realize how ironic this is?Carbs are just carbs. Unless you're trying to go into keto for some strange reason, you really don't need to think about carbs at all.
If you're losing weight, you should eat about 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass for maximum muscle retention. You should eat about 0.35 grams of fat per pound of total body mass for hormonal balance and other things. The rest of your calories should come from carbs.
It's that simple. For weight loss, eat fewer calories than you burn.
Don't overcomplicate things and don't get sucked into special diets that prohibit certain foods or demonize certain nutrients.
He's also fairly correct with one caveat - that his advice doesn't apply to those with any medical/physiological reason for restricting carbohydrate in their diet.
... and he knows that, but he does like to leave out certain facts that SHOULD 'go without saying' just to see people rabidly attack him.
Huh?
I left out "unless you have some medical condition that prevents you from eating carbs normally" because that goes without saying. I take offense at your claim that I'm trolling.
The reality is there's no reason for the vast majority of people to limit carb intake artificially.0 -
Thanks Alberta. I guess I should be sticking back to carbs because I also do heavy lifting program. But won't this mean I will gain alot of water weight throughout the day from water retention in muscles and carbs?0
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Thanks Alberta. I guess I should be sticking back to carbs because I also do heavy lifting program. But won't this mean I will gain alot of water weight throughout the day from water retention in muscles and carbs?
No. Even if it did, who cares if you gain a little water weight here or there? That doesn't affect whether or not you're losing fat.0 -
Well, what "should go without saying" doesn't stop the rabid hordes, does it?Huh?
I left out "unless you have some medical condition that prevents you from eating carbs normally" because that goes without saying. I take offense at your claim that I'm trolling.
Which you, I and everyone with the ability to reason agrees with. But how does one do it "artificially" ??The reality is there's no reason for the vast majority of people to limit carb intake artificially.0 -
Thanks Alberta. I guess I should be sticking back to carbs because I also do heavy lifting program. But won't this mean I will gain alot of water weight throughout the day from water retention in muscles and carbs?
Water weight doesn't matter. Stop worrying about the scale and pay attention to body fat percentage. If it tracks down over time, you're doing things right, no matter what the scale says. Six years ago I weighed 190 pounds. I wore relaxed fit jeans with a 36-38 waist (yes I'm a guy) and extra large t-shirts. Today I weigh around 195-200 (almost 10 pounds more than Id did 6 years ago) yet I wear regular fit jeans with a 33 inch waist, and can comfortably fit into medium sized t-shirts. The scale is the least useful tool to gauge progress there is.
Also, I ate around 400 grams of carbs today (and close to 200 grams of protein.) I'm 3 pounds lighter than I was yesterday. Unless you have a specific medical condition, carbs are irrelevant to fat loss, and are actually beneficial, as carbs are a very important part of the anabolic muscle building and maintenance cycle, as is insulin, contrary to the demonization by the crazy Low Carb Cultists (no, not everyone who eats low carb is a crazy Low Carb Cultist.)0 -
There is some research that shows that a sedentary person (on average) cannot use more than 100 cal of carbs (25g, or about 1 slice of bread) at a time...everything else would be stored. This would explain why for almost 2 years I tracked my calories and dieted a mostly vegan diet, I never lost weight. I eat very healthy (good fats, organic unprocessed foods) but I regularly had a bagel for breakfast, rice, tofu and veggies for lunch, and pasta and bread for dinner. Way too many carbs and not enough protein. So I think it is important to understand and monitor how many carbs you are eating. And always combine them with protein and veggies to slow the digestion. And eat smaller more frequent meals
Right now I am on a medically supervised VLCD (600 cal a day, very low fat and low carb) and I have lost 20 lbs in a month (after failing at "simple counting calories" for so long)...so I would say that low carb can work very well for most people for fat loss. If I were doing this without the doctor supervision I would try a modified atkins with 1200 or so cal a day. Then once I am back on maintenance I plan on trying the "no more than 25g of carbs per meal" philosophy.0 -
Oh please link us to that research.0
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Seriously, I'd love to see that too... I've never run into anything like that and I'm a medical researcher.Oh please link us to that research.
For a 150 lbs non-ketogenic sedentary adult the 'average' glucose utilization would be roughly 150g per day, or 600 kcal from carbohydrate. There is no evidence to suggest that it must be in 6 increments of 25g to prevent it being stored as fat...
... and even if it WERE stored as fat temporarily, an overall caloric intake at maintenance or deficit would ensure that fatty acid gets utilized for cellular respiration.0 -
It came from this guy: http://www.drclydewilson.com/
All I know is that this is the first thing I have seen that could explain why I did not lose weight for 2 years despite being on 1200-1500 calories (I am 37 yrs old, 5'10", and was 220lbs) and working with a nutritionist. I am sedentary because I have bad hip arthritis. I measured everything I ate, and I could never lose any weight.
I got a newsletter with an article he wrote (he is a professor at Stanford)...here's the body of that report:
To Carb or Not to Carb: That is the Question
By Clyde Wilson, PhD
We have a love-hate relationship with carbohydrate. Athletes rely on them. Dieters try to limit or avoid them altogether. Many of us crave them and would love to eat them all the time! The Institute of Medicine sets the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) at 130 grams (520 Cal) per day specifically to meet the needs of the brain. So what should YOU do?
Carbohydrate is one of the toughest parts to get right in a healthy diet. It is necessary to fuel the brain and for optimum athletic performance, but at the same time it does have the propensity to make us fat. The reason carbohydrate intake is so complicated is because muscle tissue is limited in how quickly it can absorb carbohydrate. If you eat 100 Cal of carbohydrate most will go to lean tissue, but if you double this to 200 Cal you will still only get 100 Cal or a bit more going to lean tissue. The rest goes to body fat. Up it to 300 Cal and you will likely get less than 100 Cal going to lean tissue, and at 400 Cal you might have none going to lean tissue. The exact cut-off is dependent on the individual but the "tipping point" is around 200 Cal. One dessert or cup of cereal, rice, pasta, potato or bread (2-3 slices) ranges from 200-300 Cal. Now think about how much rice or pasta you eat with bread on the side followed by dessert on a regular basis. Scary.
The key to carbohydrate absorption boils down to insulin. Insulin is the hormone that tells cells throughout your body that you have eaten and it is time for them to absorb calories. As you eat more and more carbohydrate, more insulin is released into your bloodstream, telling all your cells to absorb more calories. Some of the carbohydrate entering muscle is converted to a specialized form of glucosamine known as acetylated glucosamine.Acetylated glucosamine inhibit sinsulin signaling within muscle, reducing how much carbohydrate further enters the muscle. (2) With less carbohydrate going to muscle more ends up going to fat.
One healthy way to consume carbohydrate is to only eat 100 Cal of carbs at a time. For most people, especially athletes and active individuals, this would mean eating at least 6 meals a day. Another way is to slow down the rate of carbohydrate digestion. Switching to whole grains such as brown rice, coarser breads and oatmeal slows digestion by 5-10%. The impact on weight loss and performance are therefore good but not great. The most effective way to slow the digestion of carbohydrate is to eat them with lots of vegetables. Vegetables take longer for the stomach to break down. Vegetables mix with the higher-calorie grains, and slow their digestion dramatically. Preliminary studies show that the effect is up to 10 times more powerful than switching from processed carbohydrates to whole grain carbohydrates. This enables the active person to increase their carbohydrate consumption to 300 or even 400 Cal in a meal as long as they consume enough vegetables with it to slow digestion. Vegetables can literally double the carbohydrate turning point before muscle shuts down.
What to do
· Eat between 100-200 Calories of carbohydrate in each of your meals, emphasizing whole grains like visually-coarse breads, brown rice, and plain oatmeal.
· If you need more carbohydrate, eat 2 cups of leafy greens or 1 cup of raw vegetables for every additional 100 Calories of carbohydrate.
· Cooked vegetables do not slow down digestion as much, so eat a little more of them than you would raw vegetables. Cook them el dente instead of to the point of mushiness.
· 100 Calories of carbohydrate = 1 slice of bread or 1/3-1/2 cup of cooked rice, pasta, potato, or most cereals
· Tomatoes and green peas are too soft to have much effect. Carrots and most fruits have too many calories to slow down the digestion of bread, rice, pasta and cereal.0 -
Excellent post, Albertabeefy! Thank you for the great synopsis.
Cheers,
yellowabc0 -
I lost 20 pounds in a month eating 1800 calories per day with plenty of carbs. I think your information is off.There is some research that shows that a sedentary person (on average) cannot use more than 100 cal of carbs (25g, or about 1 slice of bread) at a time...everything else would be stored. This would explain why for almost 2 years I tracked my calories and dieted a mostly vegan diet, I never lost weight. I eat very healthy (good fats, organic unprocessed foods) but I regularly had a bagel for breakfast, rice, tofu and veggies for lunch, and pasta and bread for dinner. Way too many carbs and not enough protein. So I think it is important to understand and monitor how many carbs you are eating. And always combine them with protein and veggies to slow the digestion. And eat smaller more frequent meals
Right now I am on a medically supervised VLCD (600 cal a day, very low fat and low carb) and I have lost 20 lbs in a month (after failing at "simple counting calories" for so long)...so I would say that low carb can work very well for most people for fat loss. If I were doing this without the doctor supervision I would try a modified atkins with 1200 or so cal a day. Then once I am back on maintenance I plan on trying the "no more than 25g of carbs per meal" philosophy.
If the body can only use 25 grams of carbs and the rest is stored as fat, exactly what does the body use for energy the remainder of the day? Does it just magically invent calories out of thin air to avoid using those carbs it stored?
All you need to do is apply some critical thinking to the things you read, rather than just blindly accept anything a person says because they happen to have a degree next to their name, and most of these silly, false ideas will pretty easily be pushed to the wayside, where they belong.0 -
Thanks alot folks!!0
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It's a lot more complicated that what I wrote for sure, AND, your muscles may be able handle more than 25g at a time. Are you sedentary? Anyway, I am not a scientist but I went to a nutrition seminar put on by Dr. Clyde at a local Sports Medicine institute and he had a lot of medical studies he referenced in his talk. And really, these days it seems everyone has an opinion. I just thought I would share this with the group since it seems a lot of people think they do not need to pay attention to the macro nutrients they are eating. It does matter the proportions people eat, and if you are a mostly carb based diet then you are probably not getting enough fiber and protein, which will all cause problems in the long term. I can be the human guinea pig here and I will let you all know how this type of eating goes for me when I am in maintenance.0
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