Brilliant peak flow rate, terrible VO2max

xidia
xidia Posts: 606 Member
I've just had my second fitness test, 5 months apart. In November I had a peak flow of 480 (off the chart good), and a VO2 max of 25 (very poor).

Today I had a peak flow of 520 (off the chart good) and a VO2 max of 31.4 (borderline very poor/poor).

If I'm interpreting that properly, I'm breathing in just fine, and taking in enough oxygen. What it's not doing is getting to my muscles when I run. What sort of reasons might there be? (And yes, I will go to the doctor if I need to.)

In case it's relevant, my blood pressure is normally around 100/70 (low) and my heart rate while comfortably running 5k in 34-36 mins is 176 (high for sustained effort!).

Replies

  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    Bump
  • fishlover888
    fishlover888 Posts: 132
    I've just had my second fitness test, 5 months apart. In November I had a peak flow of 480 (off the chart good), and a VO2 max of 25 (very poor).

    Today I had a peak flow of 520 (off the chart good) and a VO2 max of 31.4 (borderline very poor/poor).

    If I'm interpreting that properly, I'm breathing in just fine, and taking in enough oxygen. What it's not doing is getting to my muscles when I run. What sort of reasons might there be? (And yes, I will go to the doctor if I need to.)

    In case it's relevant, my blood pressure is normally around 100/70 (low) and my heart rate while comfortably running 5k in 34-36 mins is 176 (high for sustained effort!).

    Definitely not an expert here, it's been about 3 years since I took exercise physiology. But here's my thoughts, slightly more educated lol :)

    How did they calculate it your VO2max? Were you hooked up to lots of breathing tubes, or just estimated based on heart rate?

    VO2max is based on oxygen content x cardiac output, which is stroke volume and heart rate. If your HR is high, VO2max is low, and peak flow is good, you might have a low stroke volume. This would mean your heart is inefficient at pumping.

    Other possibilities...
    Peak flow is just measuring expiratory volume, and doesn't show what % of the O2 you are breathing is being absorbed. So you have good ventilation (ability to pump air in and out, or at least out for you!) but not necessarily good respiration (oxygen absorption across tissues).

    Could also be totally genetic, no big deal.

    So a lot of information here but not a ton of clear answers. Is it affecting your ability to tolerate activities? I would suggest a cardiologist for a cardiac stress test or for spirometry if it's concerning you. And if you weren't hooked up to spirometry, it's not super accurate anyway.

    The really good news is that it's improving!! Yah Fitnasty!!
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    I've just had my second fitness test, 5 months apart. In November I had a peak flow of 480 (off the chart good), and a VO2 max of 25 (very poor).

    Today I had a peak flow of 520 (off the chart good) and a VO2 max of 31.4 (borderline very poor/poor).

    If I'm interpreting that properly, I'm breathing in just fine, and taking in enough oxygen. What it's not doing is getting to my muscles when I run. What sort of reasons might there be? (And yes, I will go to the doctor if I need to.)

    In case it's relevant, my blood pressure is normally around 100/70 (low) and my heart rate while comfortably running 5k in 34-36 mins is 176 (high for sustained effort!).

    Yes, there is a difference between ventilation (peak flow) and oxygen uptake (VO2). As already mentioned, ventilation just refers to moving air in and out, VO2 is the actual oxygen uptake. Think of as catching fish in a flowing stream. There could be plenty of water and plenty of fish, but if you have a small net with a lot of holes, your volume of fish caught will be disproportionately low.

    My main addition is that VO2 is more that just oxygen absorption into the bloodstream. Actually, movement across the membrane is probably fine and doesn't change that much. Increases is VO2 are primarily due to increases in cardiac output--total amount of blood pumped--and an increase in capillary density and the cellular structures/enzymes that are involved in aerobic metabolism.

    In short, the mismatch between your pulmonary function and oxygen uptake does not reflect a medical issue and the VO2 max numbers your are reporting correlate to your reported 5K running times.
  • xidia
    xidia Posts: 606 Member
    Thanks both. My 5k times have not improved at all. I have built up my stamina so I csn run further, but my average sustainae pace seems "stuck" regardless of distance for the entire year I've been running. This makes me think that something in the VO2 max is limiting my ability to improve. (ie I can move enough oxygen to run this fast and I can sustain that, but I can't move enough to run any faster and this is not improving with training.)

    @fishlover: the first one was a mile run then plug your time + HR into a formula, the second was the Cooper 12min run. So both estimates, but consistent with each other.

    The inability to improve my running times is bugging me, that's for sure.
  • xidia
    xidia Posts: 606 Member
    Bump now America is waking up :)
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
    It's impossible to say why your 5k times are not improving without knowing your training, but there are usually two reasons why this can happen.

    Either a person is:
    1. Running too fast in training for their current fitness level.
    2. Not running enough miles.

    Or both
  • xidia
    xidia Posts: 606 Member
    Thanks - it's certainly not because I haven't done enough miles.

    How would you define "too fast"? If I can sustain the pace for the distance required and be comfortable at the end, wouldn't that be a good pace to run at?
  • xidia
    xidia Posts: 606 Member
    Bump
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
    Thanks - it's certainly not because I haven't done enough miles.

    How would you define "too fast"? If I can sustain the pace for the distance required and be comfortable at the end, wouldn't that be a good pace to run at?
    How much are you running per week? A beginning runner training for the 5K should be running between 20 and 30 miles per week minimum (1). As you progress past beginner the weekly mileage goes up to coninue improvement. Many of the people at the front of local 5Ks are running up to 60 or more miles per week.

    How many times per week do you run? Four times per week is probably optimum as it presents the highest fitness gains before the injury risk starts to rise significantly (2). If you can run more often than that without injury you will improve faster. You also should be doing one run a week that is 90 minutes long minimum. Two hours is a lot better.

    What is your maximum heart rate? If you havent done so already you should do a maximum heartrate test so that you can accurately determine training zones. For now, I'll assume your max is around what the formula predicts which is 190. You said you do your runs at 170 heartrate. That is 90% and is way to high for daily runs. Not less than 80% of your weekly mileage needs to be easy at 70 to 80% max HR or below. That means you should be running between 133 and 150 on most of your daily runs. The aerobic adaptations that Azdak mentioned above are primarily stimulated by running at this intensity. By running a lot harder all the time you are not getting these aerobic adaptations and are not training the slow twitch muscle fibers much at all.

    You will not improve by running 5K race pace all the time. For example, my 5K race pace is 6:40/mi right now. My daily easy run training pace is around 8:20 to 8:50/mi. I also do some runs at 10:00/mi. These runs, done in high volume, are what stimulate the aerobic adaptations that enable me to run at 6:40/mi for three miles.


    1. Run Faster from the 5K to the Marathon, How to Be Your Own Best Coach by Brad Hudson and Matt Fitzgerald. Table 3.1
    2. From Lore of Running by Dr. Timothy Noakes, MD
  • xidia
    xidia Posts: 606 Member
    Thanks! If I have to run 90mins plus once a week to drop my 5k time below 30mins, that's never going to happen. i just do not enjoy running enough.

    My family has a history of high heart rate and low blood pressure, so my qualified running coach Mum advises ignoring HR zones and going on perceived effort instead. You may be right that even on that method I run too fast some of the time, but that's because I want to get it over with and get home!

    (I run because it's an efficient way to earn calories for food and it's good my long-term health, not because I enjoy it.)

    I still wonder if there's a reinforcing circle: weird-*kitten* VO2 Max compared to peak flow makes it unpleasant, so the incentive to train is reduced, so the traditional gains from running aren't made, so the weird-*kitten* ratio remains...