uggg yet another TDEE question {let me apologize now!}

chasetwins · May 2013

I did a search to find the answers to my questions but did not quite find what I am looking for. So if this question has been beat to death I apologize...I hit the 6th page and said forget it I am asking LOL

I am losing weight (so far) steadily so that is not my complaint..

OK - I started TDEE-20% on 4/2/13 ~ my BMR is 1552 I work out 5 days a week for 40 minutes (about) each time.Giving me a TDEE of 2019 - spreadsheet I got from here with all the funky macro info gives me a TDEG of 1573 so I do try to eat up to that (getting better at it!) ~ BTW I am 5'5 weigh 194lbs..initial goal is 160 but will reevaluate my goal when I get there.

I know that when entering the cals consumed into MFP you do not eat back your calories using this method..however because I am a numbers person and like to see progress and analyze information...I keep track of my estimated (HRM) calorie burns. On a separate spreadsheet - I have realized that my "net" calories end up being below 1200 sometimes and always below my BMR....
Rumor has it you should not be below your BMR..is that net below BMR or you should "actually" eat above your BMR? I actually went over my cal goal one day by 200 and still netted below BMR.. (still lost that week too lol however I know I was far more active than a normal week as I was on vacation)

I am fine at the moment losing about a pound a week or a little less than and never hungry (which is a great feeling BTW)..but I am wondering if this will cause an issue down the road...you know netting below the 1200 or BMR..or does this even out on my non workout days (sat & sun)? Looks like each week I "net" anywhere between 8,000 and 9,000 total calories for the entire week.
My work out burns vary also - burning anywhere from 1200 to 1800 for the week from actual exercise.

I do not want to stall out or screw up any metabolism efficiency! I know the closer I get to the weight I should be that it will get harder...but I still have a ways to go for that so I want to keep the engine burning while I can

Bekahmardis · May 2013

I try to look at the week as a "whole" rather than a day to day thing. I'm planning on getting a FitBit Flex when they come out so I can get a better picture of whether I am sedentary or "lightly active" on a regular basis. If you've been tracking everything including your exercise, your initial TDEE calculation may not be totally accurate. Take a look at the week as a whole. Does it look okay when you average everything out?

I added up your past week and you're averaging 1414 per day when you look at the week as a "whole." If you are exercising *over* your TDEE calculation, then I would say you might want to start eating those calories back. You can do it fairly easily and slowly by adding in some peanuts, almonds, peanut butter, etc without adding "bulk" to fill you up so much.

If your TDEE is accurate when you include your exercise, then you simply don't input your exercise into the MFD and try to just eat what your goal is....in which case, you're doing fine and keep at it!

chasetwins · May 2013

as a whole I end up with a 4000 - 5500 calorie deficit - (from my TDEE)

So add more calories

I am getting better at that...was difficult to comprehend at first. (diet = starve haha) I will definitely try to look at it as a whole week thing verse day by day. Being low net - makes me nervous with all this eat more to lose more talk LOL

thank you!

Bekahmardis · May 2013

Yeah, it was tough for me to figure it all out, too. I'd been avoiding things like peanuts and peanut butter like the plague because of the number of calories in them,, only to discover I was netting way below my BMR! I re-calculated my TDEE, added in the exercise the way I *think* it is, and I've been doing better. It's harder work than some people realize! Best of luck!

chasetwins · May 2013

LOL it really is...such a mental game

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it !

tonytoo · May 2013

Rumor has it you should not be below your BMR..is that net below BMR or you should "actually" eat above your BMR?

You can eat as little as you want. People have eaten nothing and just had water, vitamins and minerals and can do it for weeks or months if you have enough stored fat.

chasetwins · May 2013

Rumor has it you should not be below your BMR..is that net below BMR or you should "actually" eat above your BMR?

You can eat as little as you want. People have eaten nothing and just had water, vitamins and minerals and can do it for weeks or months if you have enough stored fat.

hmmmm did I mention i am trying to be and stay healthy..ya know the right way LOL

But...then again who is say what is right and what is wrong !?!

Sjenny5891 · May 2013

I'm not an expert. I don't understand it completely. From what I understand, you shouldn't go under 1200 a day net. So I figure if MFP sets the goal at 1200 you are supposed o eat back all your exercise calories.

I don't always do that. Sometimes I have trouble eating 1800 calories or more a day.
I've had some tell me that if i'm not humgry it's ok and if i have a day i need to go over it'll average out.

One thing at a time I say.

3dogsrunning · May 2013

Rumor has it you should not be below your BMR..is that net below BMR or you should "actually" eat above your BMR?

You can eat as little as you want. People have eaten nothing and just had water, vitamins and minerals and can do it for weeks or months if you have enough stored fat.

Losing weight isn't the issue, its keeping it off when you get there. Speaking as someone who did the whole eat very little and exercise my *kitten* off, I suffered afterwards.

There are any number of issues here. TDEE is all just an estimate, sort of a starting point. It is possible that you fall lower than that number.
Or you could be working out harder than they account for. Even the food we log is not totally accurate and can vary a couple hundred calories.

It is also possible that depending on what your exercises are there is a possibility that your HRM is overestimating your calories burned.

All in all, you are losing, at a good pace. I am assuming you are having no other issues, with lethargy or anything. You are a little under your BMR, you could try upping by 100 or 200 calories for a few weeks and see how it goes (just give it 4-6 weeks as you may see an initial increase).

chasetwins · May 2013

I'm not an expert. I don't understand it completely. From what I understand, you shouldn't go under 1200 a day net. So I figure if MFP sets the goal at 1200 you are supposed o eat back all your exercise calories.

I don't always do that. Sometimes I have trouble eating 1800 calories or more a day.
I've had some tell me that if i'm not humgry it's ok and if i have a day i need to go over it'll average out.

One thing at a time I say.

I agree - one day at a time

chasetwins · May 2013

Rumor has it you should not be below your BMR..is that net below BMR or you should "actually" eat above your BMR?

You can eat as little as you want. People have eaten nothing and just had water, vitamins and minerals and can do it for weeks or months if you have enough stored fat.

Losing weight isn't the issue, its keeping it off when you get there. Speaking as someone who did the whole eat very little and exercise my *kitten* off, I suffered afterwards.

There are any number of issues here. TDEE is all just an estimate, sort of a starting point. It is possible that you fall lower than that number.
Or you could be working out harder than they account for. Even the food we log is not totally accurate and can vary a couple hundred calories.

It is also possible that depending on what your exercises are there is a possibility that your HRM is overestimating your calories burned.

All in all, you are losing, at a good pace. I am assuming you are having no other issues, with lethargy or anything. You are a little under your BMR, you could try upping by 100 or 200 calories for a few weeks and see how it goes (just give it 4-6 weeks as you may see an initial increase).

I definitely do not have any issues - plenty of energy (actually more than ever) I went with the TDEE-20% for the very reason that I or the HRM may over estimate the burn..especially with circuit training. Keeping it off no doubt will be the main challenge...learning about all the numbers along the way hopefully will help with that. I just do not want to be one of those people that in 2 months all of a sudden stop losing...then get told...well you were eating too little fool! LOL

Thanks everyone

luckydays27 · May 2013

I am in the same boat as you. 193lbs 5'5" and a BMR of around 1575 and a TDEE of around 2000. I take off 20% of that for now (until I hit 180 or so) and that leaves me 1600 a day. This is what I try to eat everyday. On the days that I work out hard (based on my HRM as well), I eat half of those cals back or more.

I have lost weight using this method and it seems to work. I end up netting under my BMR but because I may make mistakes with entering food or the HRM may be over estimating my cals burned, I figure it balances out that way. Plus I am never under by more than 200 cals.

I am never hungry, crumpy, angry, or sick because of food based on this method.

Mads1997 · May 2013

You know this is the only place that i've come across that is so concerned about eating under your BMR. Any dietician you go to will have you eating under your BMR if you have lots of fat stores. You are going to lose both fat and muscle whether eating under your BMR or not if you don't do some sort of strength training.

calderai · May 2013

Im so confused with the whole TDEE --- can you help me? I thought I kinda had it down but.... after reading your post and all the info you had on your TDEE, I'm a little concerned.

Im 33 -- 5'5 -- 130 with a goal of 120

I have my TDEE set at: 1422 cal per day ... I try not to go past 1300 (intake cals) on top of that I work out and burn an average of 300-500 ech wrkout 4 - 5 times a week)

Am I doing this wrong? Do I need to stick to the TDEE 1422 #? Is that # even right?

Rumor has it you should not be below your BMR..is that net below BMR or you should "actually" eat above your BMR?

You can eat as little as you want. People have eaten nothing and just had water, vitamins and minerals and can do it for weeks or months if you have enough stored fat.
[/quote]

Losing weight isn't the issue, its keeping it off when you get there. Speaking as someone who did the whole eat very little and exercise my *kitten* off, I suffered afterwards.

There are any number of issues here. TDEE is all just an estimate, sort of a starting point. It is possible that you fall lower than that number.
Or you could be working out harder than they account for. Even the food we log is not totally accurate and can vary a couple hundred calories.

It is also possible that depending on what your exercises are there is a possibility that your HRM is overestimating your calories burned.

All in all, you are losing, at a good pace. I am assuming you are having no other issues, with lethargy or anything. You are a little under your BMR, you could try upping by 100 or 200 calories for a few weeks and see how it goes (just give it 4-6 weeks as you may see an initial increase).
[/quote]

I definitely do not have any issues - plenty of energy (actually more than ever) I went with the TDEE-20% for the very reason that I or the HRM may over estimate the burn..especially with circuit training. Keeping it off no doubt will be the main challenge...learning about all the numbers along the way hopefully will help with that. I just do not want to be one of those people that in 2 months all of a sudden stop losing...then get told...well you were eating too little fool! LOL

Thanks everyone
[/quote]

3dogsrunning · May 2013

You know this is the only place that i've come across that is so concerned about eating under your BMR. Any dietician you go to will have you eating under your BMR if you have lots of fat stores. You are going to lose both fat and muscle whether eating under your BMR or not if you don't do some sort of strength training.

Even here people will tell you if you have a lot to lose you can eat under your BMR. I also think it becomes more of a concern here because of how MFP is set up. A dietician will factor in your exercise level, MFP doesn't and people fail to account for it so end up eating much lower.

chasetwins · May 2013

I am in the same boat as you. 193lbs 5'5" and a BMR of around 1575 and a TDEE of around 2000. I take off 20% of that for now (until I hit 180 or so) and that leaves me 1600 a day. This is what I try to eat everyday. On the days that I work out hard (based on my HRM as well), I eat half of those cals back or more.

I have lost weight using this method and it seems to work. I end up netting under my BMR but because I may make mistakes with entering food or the HRM may be over estimating my cals burned, I figure it balances out that way. Plus I am never under by more than 200 cals.

I am never hungry, crumpy, angry, or sick because of food based on this method.

ohhh someone with almost the same stats

Thank you!! your input is greatly appreciated! Good point with being under / over estimates...sad we can not get accurate anything really...but I will take as close as I can get.

chasetwins · May 2013

calderai - 5'5 goal of 120 ...that I am thinking is really low weight for our height. Being 130 - Personally (and this is just me talking) would concentrate on maintain calories and toning...not necessarily losing.

Being 5'5 I have weighed 155 and was told I was thin enough and not to lose anything more. Looking back at pictures...they were RIGHT all though in my mind I was still fat. I was toned at that time - so some of that weight was muscle not fat.

Flowers4Julia · May 2013

Hi,

I don't know if you are still checking this thread for ideas, but one thing occurred to me. (I use the spreadsheet and in place of a road map as well with great success). The spreadsheet is using levels of exercise on top of the assumed "sedentary" lifestyle. And on the "simple set up" page is not concerned with HRM numbers....so.....it is using what work and exercise activities you tell it to assign you an "activity multiplier". On the other hand a HRM tries to calculate a burn give another set of algorithms, based on whatever that HRM maker uses with your heart rate info etc...and that's not bad either. Make sure if you do continue to use it that your HRM reflects you weight WITH clothes as you most likely don't exercise naked ;-)

Although, I googled around the interwebs to see which way could be more accurate.....and turns out most information I read leaned toward the "activity multiplier" that is on the spreadsheet. As much as we LOVE our HRM's, they can be off for a variety of reasons and because of that can over or underestimate widely. Not so accurate after all.

But - I've also kept track like you on a separate spreadsheet because I wanted to try to understand the differences between the activity multiplier and HRM calculations. And, like you I even at TDEE-10% would sometimes be eating slightly under my BMR....I only had like 7 pounds to lose so my deficit was very small to begin with, only 150 cals. But then I go burn 400 on the elliptical and it didn't make sense!

What I found helped greatly was to really think about how hard I was actually working during cardio and not underestimate it. For instance, if I'm on the elliptical I definitely put that in the "greater than 4mph" category. When I'm out walking the roads or hiking, I can figure my mileage and how fast I went and from there figure out (most times) it was in the 3-4 mph category. Doing this seemed to help the spreadsheet really work for me.

Yeah, I miss the HRM, but it sits in a drawer now looking a bit sad...

Hope this could help, best of luck!!

chasetwins · May 2013

Hi,

I don't know if you are still checking this thread for ideas, but one thing occurred to me. (I use the spreadsheet and in place of a road map as well with great success). The spreadsheet is using levels of exercise on top of the assumed "sedentary" lifestyle. And on the "simple set up" page is not concerned with HRM numbers....so.....it is using what work and exercise activities you tell it to assign you an "activity multiplier". On the other hand a HRM tries to calculate a burn give another set of algorithms, based on whatever that HRM maker uses with your heart rate info etc...and that's not bad either. Make sure if you do continue to use it that your HRM reflects you weight WITH clothes as you most likely don't exercise naked ;-)

Although, I googled around the interwebs to see which way could be more accurate.....and turns out most information I read leaned toward the "activity multiplier" that is on the spreadsheet. As much as we LOVE our HRM's, they can be off for a variety of reasons and because of that can over or underestimate widely. Not so accurate after all.

But - I've also kept track like you on a separate spreadsheet because I wanted to try to understand the differences between the activity multiplier and HRM calculations. And, like you I even at TDEE-10% would sometimes be eating slightly under my BMR....I only had like 7 pounds to lose so my deficit was very small to begin with, only 150 cals. But then I go burn 400 on the elliptical and it didn't make sense!

What I found helped greatly was to really think about how hard I was actually working during cardio and not underestimate it. For instance, if I'm on the elliptical I definitely put that in the "greater than 4mph" category. When I'm out walking the roads or hiking, I can figure my mileage and how fast I went and from there figure out (most times) it was in the 3-4 mph category. Doing this seemed to help the spreadsheet really work for me.

Yeah, I miss the HRM, but it sits in a drawer now looking a bit sad...

Hope this could help, best of luck!!

LOL aww poor HRM

- thank you I am not straying away from the sheet just yet. I did not think about the whole weight thing with clothes...this of course could make a difference!! Currently it thinks I am naked

I am glad to hear someone that has OCD with numbers too! More so - that you found the sheet more accurate...this is great news for me! the TDEE - % is so simple I guess it makes us second guess it authenticity.

uggg yet another TDEE question {let me apologize now!}

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