Question regarding building muscle - losing fat
dewsmom78
Posts: 498 Member
Not to beat a dead horse - but many people on here have told me that you cannot build muscle at a calorie deficit. If that is indeed true, how is it that over the past 2 months I have stayed the same weight, been strength training 4 times per week and running twice per week while eating my TDEE-20%. I have lost a total of 4 inches in 2 months and about 2% body fat.
I am 34, 5'2, consistent weight of 134-135 lbs (weigh myself weekly).
Are you telling me my body is just replacing the weight of the fat with water so the scale shows the same number every week?
I am 34, 5'2, consistent weight of 134-135 lbs (weigh myself weekly).
Are you telling me my body is just replacing the weight of the fat with water so the scale shows the same number every week?
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Replies
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Generally speaking it is true you need to be at a surplus to build muscle. but there is a thing called "noob gains" but that only lasts for so long.Not to beat a dead horse - but many people on here have told me that you cannot build muscle at a calorie deficit. If that is indeed true, how is it that over the past 2 months I have stayed the same weight, been strength training 4 times per week and running twice per week while eating my TDEE-20%. I have lost a total of 4 inches in 2 months and about 2% body fat.
I am 34, 5'2, consistent weight of 134-135 lbs (weigh myself weekly).
Are you telling me my body is just replacing the weight of the fat with water so the scale shows the same number every week?0 -
Yeah this is confusing.
What people fail to mention is while you cant build muscle on a calorie deficit you can RETAIN your current lean body mass.
I really don't know why people leave out this very crucial information when discussing strength training.
You've reduced bodyfat because you've lost fat and retained lean body mass.0 -
Generally speaking it is true you need to be at a surplus to build muscle. but there is a thing called "noob gains" but that only lasts for so long.Not to beat a dead horse - but many people on here have told me that you cannot build muscle at a calorie deficit. If that is indeed true, how is it that over the past 2 months I have stayed the same weight, been strength training 4 times per week and running twice per week while eating my TDEE-20%. I have lost a total of 4 inches in 2 months and about 2% body fat.
I am 34, 5'2, consistent weight of 134-135 lbs (weigh myself weekly).
Are you telling me my body is just replacing the weight of the fat with water so the scale shows the same number every week?
This.
When you are new to lifting heavy you will have some beginner gains. They are smaller and won't last for long. Muscle growth needs calories.
The no change in weight could also be due to losing some fat along the way but not losing weight because your body will retain water and such for muscle repair when you are lifting.0 -
I'm working out every day except the weekend but I'm also on a 1 pound loss a week calorie deficit. I do see improvement with my strength however I'm looking to lose weight but tone up. Is this alright? Once I get to where I want I will consider eating more to build muscle.0
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just here for the reading....maybe will have questions0
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I'm working out every day except the weekend but I'm also on a 1 pound loss a week calorie deficit. I do see improvement with my strength however I'm looking to lose weight but tone up. Is this alright? Once I get to where I want I will consider eating more to build muscle.
^ this is my question too0 -
i don't understand this either. for instance. i know that i should strength train while i am loosing weight (and i do). if i am supposed to be losing how can strength training be beneficial if i need to have a surplus to gain muscle? it confuses me.
edited for another question - and does that mean (because it seems to imply) that i can't get stronger while losing?? or does it balance somehow because of the amount of weight there is to lose.0 -
I concur with the others. It is basically impossible to build true muscle while lifting while in deficit.
As far as losing weight while lifting weights, yes, it can happen and when you're close to your weight loss goals, it is a good idea to strength train in conjunction with cardio and a calorie deficit to preserve muscle and overall, look firmer and be stronger.
It is a win win.0 -
This really confuses me as well. Should I just concentrate on cardio then while losing my weight or will doing both cardio and strength training help the most. Hope someone can clear this up! Thanks.0
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If you haven't done any lifting before, you'll get a small bump in muscle at the very beginning, which is probably enough for what you want. You can't gain pounds and pounds of lean muscle mass on a calorie deficit, but you can gain a little (and that doesn't continue once your body is "prepared" enough for the exercises you do). More importantly is as you strength train your current muscles will retain more water/nutrients to ensure they are prepared to do the exercises you are doing. This will cause them to swell a bit, become more "dense" so to speak. Your muscle to fat burning ratio will go way down, as the body will try to "not" consume that which it is sustaining or rebuilding, so you will burn more excess fat as a result.
Alot of people claim they can build alot of muscle while shedding fat, but the truth is they are probably only adding a very small amount of muscle (really small after their "newbie" gains) and are actually seeing a much higher level of water/nutrient retention in the muscles they currently have (cell volumization).
To say you won't get "any" gains wouldn't be exactly true.0 -
Generally speaking it is true you need to be at a surplus to build muscle. but there is a thing called "noob gains" but that only lasts for so long.Not to beat a dead horse - but many people on here have told me that you cannot build muscle at a calorie deficit. If that is indeed true, how is it that over the past 2 months I have stayed the same weight, been strength training 4 times per week and running twice per week while eating my TDEE-20%. I have lost a total of 4 inches in 2 months and about 2% body fat.
I am 34, 5'2, consistent weight of 134-135 lbs (weigh myself weekly).
Are you telling me my body is just replacing the weight of the fat with water so the scale shows the same number every week?
Ok, so let's say, since I am a noob, that I have managed to replace the fat loss with a little muscle. I would think by now that would be coming to an end.
My question still hasn't been answered. How can I continue to lose fat but not scale weight? You'd think I'd have seen at least a couple pounds of scale loss in 2 months. It's just frustrating to not see the scale move at all.0 -
Ok, so let's say, since I am a noob, that I have managed to replace the fat loss with a little muscle. I would think by now that would be coming to an end.
My question still hasn't been answered. How can I continue to lose fat but not scale weight? You'd think I'd have seen at least a couple pounds of scale loss in 2 months. It's just frustrating to not see the scale move at all.
I've seen reports of "newbie" gains lasting upwards of 6 months on bodybuilding forums....this isn't an exact science.
You continue to lose fat and not scale weight because by volume muscle is much denser and weighs much more...a square inch of muscle weighs multiple times what a square inch of fat weighs. (when that muscle is volumized it is even more)
Measurements are king. If you are losing "inches", that's much better than losing "weight".
You continue to get stronger, even after "newbie" gains because your body strengthens the connective tissues, tendons/ligaments, and neurological connections to each muscle you train. As these get better and better, so does the actual explosive energy contained in a muscle group.0 -
This should explain it for you. The visual is pretty striking, too.0
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Generally speaking it is true you need to be at a surplus to build muscle. but there is a thing called "noob gains" but that only lasts for so long.Not to beat a dead horse - but many people on here have told me that you cannot build muscle at a calorie deficit. If that is indeed true, how is it that over the past 2 months I have stayed the same weight, been strength training 4 times per week and running twice per week while eating my TDEE-20%. I have lost a total of 4 inches in 2 months and about 2% body fat.
I am 34, 5'2, consistent weight of 134-135 lbs (weigh myself weekly).
Are you telling me my body is just replacing the weight of the fat with water so the scale shows the same number every week?
Ok, so let's say, since I am a noob, that I have managed to replace the fat loss with a little muscle. I would think by now that would be coming to an end.
My question still hasn't been answered. How can I continue to lose fat but not scale weight? You'd think I'd have seen at least a couple pounds of scale loss in 2 months. It's just frustrating to not see the scale move at all.
You are only looking (according to your ticker) to lose 10 lbs. That's really not very much.
I'm not sure what your initial weight was, but you say you've lost 2% body fat. At (for example) 150 lb starting, that is 3 lb of fat. I'm not sure exactly how much newbie gains are usually going to run, but between some muscle gain, some water retention (increased glycogen in the muscle = more water too) I can see why the scale might not be moving.
The thing is - you have lost bf and inches! Those are MUCH more meaningful than the numbers on the scale! Focus on that, and the mirror and photos rather than the scale.
Also - strength gains are to be expected without muscle growth via neuromusclular adaption. Your body simply gets better at using the muscle when you keep forcing it to.0 -
This really confuses me as well. Should I just concentrate on cardio then while losing my weight or will doing both cardio and strength training help the most. Hope someone can clear this up! Thanks.
Cardio and strength training. Always. If you're 300lbs or in perfect shape. Both are amazingly beneficial and provide a wonderful balance of fat loss and muscle development.0 -
Ok, so let's say, since I am a noob, that I have managed to replace the fat loss with a little muscle. I would think by now that would be coming to an end.
My question still hasn't been answered. How can I continue to lose fat but not scale weight? You'd think I'd have seen at least a couple pounds of scale loss in 2 months. It's just frustrating to not see the scale move at all.
I've seen reports of "newbie" gains lasting upwards of 6 months on bodybuilding forums....this isn't an exact science.
You continue to lose fat and not scale weight because by volume muscle is much denser and weighs much more...a square inch of muscle weighs multiple times what a square inch of fat weighs. (when that muscle is volumized it is even more)
Measurements are king. If you are losing "inches", that's much better than losing "weight".
You continue to get stronger, even after "newbie" gains because your body strengthens the connective tissues, tendons/ligaments, and neurological connections to each muscle you train. As these get better and better, so does the actual explosive energy contained in a muscle group.
Thank you, I agree, losing inches is better than weight. And I do feel stronger and healthier every day.0 -
Becasue basically you could be loosing a few pounds of fat but your noob gains increased your muscle by a pound so you still lost a few fat but replaced it with the gain from that muscle which could even out but muscle weighing more than the same amount of fat takes up less space on the body.
Generally speaking it is true you need to be at a surplus to build muscle. but there is a thing called "noob gains" but that only lasts for so long.Not to beat a dead horse - but many people on here have told me that you cannot build muscle at a calorie deficit. If that is indeed true, how is it that over the past 2 months I have stayed the same weight, been strength training 4 times per week and running twice per week while eating my TDEE-20%. I have lost a total of 4 inches in 2 months and about 2% body fat.
I am 34, 5'2, consistent weight of 134-135 lbs (weigh myself weekly).
Are you telling me my body is just replacing the weight of the fat with water so the scale shows the same number every week?
Ok, so let's say, since I am a noob, that I have managed to replace the fat loss with a little muscle. I would think by now that would be coming to an end.
My question still hasn't been answered. How can I continue to lose fat but not scale weight? You'd think I'd have seen at least a couple pounds of scale loss in 2 months. It's just frustrating to not see the scale move at all.0 -
I do intermittent fasting with one meal a day (post workout) and I've been able to gain muscle while losing fat. I've lost about 10lbs after starting IF (was already losing weight, just added in IF) but I've gained 1" on my upper arms and 1.75" on my thighs at the same time.0
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I do intermittent fasting with one meal a day (post workout) and I've been able to gain muscle while losing fat. I've lost about 10lbs after starting IF (was already losing weight, just added in IF) but I've gained 1" on my upper arms and 1.75" on my thighs at the same time.
That's pretty awesome, but I wouldn't recommend IF for someone, takes a pretty strong person to do it effectively. I've read alot about bodybuilders trying to regulate their anabolic/catatonic states with calorie cycling...some can do it, some can't. I think it's pretty cool that you ARE doing it!0 -
Interesting topic .
I'm 5'8" 118#.
Obviously I don't need to lose anymore weight but I don't want to gain either.
I have been lifting for a few years along with cardio for several years.
( I know you will all want to say go heavy, but a back injury does not make it safe at this time ).
Is it possible to get more "tone" and definition to the muscles I do have without increasing muscle mass and gaining weight?0 -
After a week or two your hormones adjust so that your ghrelin doesn't spike all day, it just spikes when your body expects food. I workout at 6pm and eat around 7pm or whenever I get home. Honestly, it's much easier for me this way. I don't get hungry all day then when I do eat I can eat a ton of food and pretty much whatever I want (within reason) because I have an entire day's worth of calories to eat at one time. You're giving me too much credit by calling me a strong person, :laugh: I just lift then eat a ton of food when I get home. I may be physically strong, but I'll be lying if I said I didn't eat two ice cream cones every single night.I do intermittent fasting with one meal a day (post workout) and I've been able to gain muscle while losing fat. I've lost about 10lbs after starting IF (was already losing weight, just added in IF) but I've gained 1" on my upper arms and 1.75" on my thighs at the same time.
That's pretty awesome, but I wouldn't recommend IF for someone, takes a pretty strong person to do it effectively. I've read alot about bodybuilders trying to regulate their anabolic/catatonic states with calorie cycling...some can do it, some can't. I think it's pretty cool that you ARE doing it!0 -
Interesting topic .
I'm 5'8" 118#.
Obviously I don't need to lose anymore weight but I don't want to gain either.
I have been lifting for a few years along with cardio for several years.
( I know you will all want to say go heavy, but a back injury does not make it safe at this time ).
Is it possible to get more "tone" and definition to the muscles I do have without increasing muscle mass and gaining weight?
Definition is about body fat %. The less fat, the more your muscles will show.0 -
You need to clearly define your goal. Lose weight or gain muscle (choose one). If you are trying to lose weight the strength training will help preserve the muscles you have. This is good - losing muscle mass is a bad thing. If you preserve your muscle mass the weight you drop will be mainly from body fat.i don't understand this either. for instance. i know that i should strength train while i am loosing weight (and i do). if i am supposed to be losing how can strength training be beneficial if i need to have a surplus to gain muscle?
I think the confusion stems from the difference between the terms "strength" versus "building muscle" (hypertrophy).... does that mean (because it seems to imply) that i can't get stronger while losing??
You can get stronger without adding any new muscle mass. It's called neuromuscular adaptation. You're basically training your body to use the muscles you have more efficiently. Building strength and building muscle are not the same thing. To a certain degree you can increase you strength on a calorie deficit. To build muscle (enlarge the size of your muscles) you need to eat a surplus of calories.0 -
I don't profess to be an expert but I have read a lot about the topics mentioned here. Some people I have read believe that increased strength (notice I said strength, not muscle) gains are a function of both neurological adaptations AND muscle gains. What the percentage of neurological adaptation and muscle gain is will vary. If you are not gaining significant muscle weight but are getting stronger, then these experts would speculate that you are mentally getting better at being stronger, i.e., neurological adaptation.
Strength is a skill like driving, typing, swimming, doing karate or whatever. The more you practice at doing deadlifts, head stands, pullups, pushups, whatever, your body will get mentally better at doing them and may also add muscle. I would not discount the ability of your body to get stronger by neurological adaptation though. In my own experience, I have seen signiticant strength gains from practicing moves and greasing the groove on certain exercises although I have certainly not gained any significant muscle.0 -
Interesting topic .
I'm 5'8" 118#.
Obviously I don't need to lose anymore weight but I don't want to gain either.
I have been lifting for a few years along with cardio for several years.
( I know you will all want to say go heavy, but a back injury does not make it safe at this time ).
Is it possible to get more "tone" and definition to the muscles I do have without increasing muscle mass and gaining weight?
Definition is about body fat %. The less fat, the more your muscles will show.
But, it won't show a "six pack".
That would require muscle/weight gain, correct?0 -
You will definitely be adding muscle and losing fat. I am in your position... have been lifting weights for about 4 months (barely any cardio) and eating at a deficit and my weight has actually increased by about 1/2lb as well as my measurements remaining almost the same. That said, I have my body composition tested via DEXA Scan every 3 months and I have lost 1kg of fat and added 1.1kg of muscle (that was 2.5 months into training).
If you are strength training don't pay attention to the scale as it will lie to you and get you down.0 -
You will definitely be adding muscle and losing fat. I am in your position... have been lifting weights for about 4 months (barely any cardio) and eating at a deficit and my weight has actually increased by about 1/2lb as well as my measurements remaining almost the same. That said, I have my body composition tested via DEXA Scan every 3 months and I have lost 1kg of fat and added 1.1kg of muscle (that was 2.5 months into training).
If you are strength training don't pay attention to the scale as it will lie to you and get you down.
That's awesome! I wish we had a place here that could do a scan like that.0 -
But, it won't show a "six pack".
That would require muscle/weight gain, correct?
You already have a six pack. You simply can't see it due to the fat over it. Abs are one of those muscle groups that can get all the "workout" they really need through doing other exercises.
I've seen people develop nice abs simply through the act of doing compound exercises that "engage" the core (Squats, Deadlifts, Back Rows, etc..) Once your bf% starts to get low, your abs will start showing.0 -
But, it won't show a "six pack".
That would require muscle/weight gain, correct?
You already have a six pack. You simply can't see it due to the fat over it. Abs are one of those muscle groups that can get all the "workout" they really need through doing other exercises.
I've seen people develop nice abs simply through the act of doing compound exercises that "engage" the core (Squats, Deadlifts, Back Rows, etc..) Once your bf% starts to get low, your abs will start showing.
This is great to know. Unfortunately that's where I'm carrying most of my body fat. Hoping by end of summer I can see my six-pack.
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This is the best explanation I have found:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html0
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