Fat Shaming? What about health shaming?
lesspaul
Posts: 190 Member
RANT
There is a lot of buzz these days about fat shaming. Some of the claims are over the top, such as perceiving the sign listing the calories of oatmeal vs a bagel. That said, fat shaming does exist, and making someone feel bad about themselves in this high stress world is seldom a good idea.
However, body shaming is not limited to the overweight. As I have progressed from the edges of obese to overweight to the high end of normal weight I've learned a lot about human behavior. I've learned how others will ridicule you for not eating what they are eating. "Oh, come on now! A second (or first!) little slice of pie ala-mode is not going to kill you!" Or, "You know you really need to give yourself a reward from time to time." (Um, yeah, but that reward does not need to be excessive calories. This month my reward was some new clothes.)
Then there is the overt shaming: "You are getting too thin. You really need to stop dieting NOW!" (This started when I was in the middle of the "overweight" category. Obesity has gotten to be so rampant that we have come to see overweight as the norm, and healthy weight people are seen as "skinny." Skinny? That should be the label for those below healthy weight, not those AT a healthy weight. Sigh.
Then there is my favorite. This is the one where it is insinuated that you have some magical property other than diet and hard work that has made and/or kept you thin. Comment like: "You're not big, you're skinny. You just don't understand." That pretty much sweeps a whole lot of hard work and sacrifice under the rug so someone can feel better about their own choices.
Um. Yeah I do understand what it takes. That is why I am now this size. I do not have a fairy godmother who waved a wand to give me muscle and take away fat. It was a whole lot of self restraint, including passing on favorite foods, hours on the dreadmill, lifting weights, and nights laying in bed feeling both hungry and sore, . Diminishing me to make yourself feel good? Hmm. Sounds like shaming. I wouldn't do it to you. Please don't do it to me.
END RANT
There is a lot of buzz these days about fat shaming. Some of the claims are over the top, such as perceiving the sign listing the calories of oatmeal vs a bagel. That said, fat shaming does exist, and making someone feel bad about themselves in this high stress world is seldom a good idea.
However, body shaming is not limited to the overweight. As I have progressed from the edges of obese to overweight to the high end of normal weight I've learned a lot about human behavior. I've learned how others will ridicule you for not eating what they are eating. "Oh, come on now! A second (or first!) little slice of pie ala-mode is not going to kill you!" Or, "You know you really need to give yourself a reward from time to time." (Um, yeah, but that reward does not need to be excessive calories. This month my reward was some new clothes.)
Then there is the overt shaming: "You are getting too thin. You really need to stop dieting NOW!" (This started when I was in the middle of the "overweight" category. Obesity has gotten to be so rampant that we have come to see overweight as the norm, and healthy weight people are seen as "skinny." Skinny? That should be the label for those below healthy weight, not those AT a healthy weight. Sigh.
Then there is my favorite. This is the one where it is insinuated that you have some magical property other than diet and hard work that has made and/or kept you thin. Comment like: "You're not big, you're skinny. You just don't understand." That pretty much sweeps a whole lot of hard work and sacrifice under the rug so someone can feel better about their own choices.
Um. Yeah I do understand what it takes. That is why I am now this size. I do not have a fairy godmother who waved a wand to give me muscle and take away fat. It was a whole lot of self restraint, including passing on favorite foods, hours on the dreadmill, lifting weights, and nights laying in bed feeling both hungry and sore, . Diminishing me to make yourself feel good? Hmm. Sounds like shaming. I wouldn't do it to you. Please don't do it to me.
END RANT
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Replies
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Having been both fat and thin, and having heard this stuff on both sides of the fence...you can't actually tell me you feel shamed and hurt emotionally by someone telling you that you are too thin?
I've been told that (not recently of course) I was going to disappear and so forth, but they are speaking with humor and its obviously intended as a compliment. When you are fat; I especially see it with people who were bigger than I ever have been -- everything is about their weight and how horrid they are. Feet hurt? Fat. Hungry? Can't be, too fat. You have a cold? Because you are too fat. Feel anything other than shame and hatred for yourself? How dare you be happy, you are TOO FAT. People have been denied medical attention due to their fat. Have you been denied because you are too healthy?
I get that you've worked hard. I know it, I'm working hard too. And you know, some people abuse their bodies and they are jealous yours looks so good. But they aren't abusing you and that doesn't justify abusing them.
It's not the same thing and to me, it seems very petty that you would insinuate it is.0 -
Having been both fat and thin, and having heard this stuff on both sides of the fence...you can't actually tell me you feel shamed and hurt emotionally by someone telling you that you are too thin?
I've been told that (not recently of course) I was going to disappear and so forth, but they are speaking with humor and its obviously intended as a compliment. When you are fat; I especially see it with people who were bigger than I ever have been -- everything is about their weight and how horrid they are. Feet hurt? Fat. Hungry? Can't be, too fat. You have a cold? Because you are too fat. Feel anything other than shame and hatred for yourself? How dare you be happy, you are TOO FAT. People have been denied medical attention due to their fat. Have you been denied because you are too healthy?
I get that you've worked hard. I know it, I'm working hard too. And you know, some people abuse their bodies and they are jealous yours looks so good. But they aren't abusing you and that doesn't justify abusing them.
It's not the same thing and to me, it seems very petty that you would insinuate it is.
Bitter much?
Shaming is shaming. Either way disrespecting someone for their body size/shape is wrong.
It's like the man what real woman with curves, not a bone. Or whatever that saying goes. Ugh. That annoys me.0 -
Having been both fat and thin, and having heard this stuff on both sides of the fence...you can't actually tell me you feel shamed and hurt emotionally by someone telling you that you are too thin?
I've been told that (not recently of course) I was going to disappear and so forth, but they are speaking with humor and its obviously intended as a compliment. When you are fat; I especially see it with people who were bigger than I ever have been -- everything is about their weight and how horrid they are. Feet hurt? Fat. Hungry? Can't be, too fat. You have a cold? Because you are too fat. Feel anything other than shame and hatred for yourself? How dare you be happy, you are TOO FAT. People have been denied medical attention due to their fat. Have you been denied because you are too healthy?
I get that you've worked hard. I know it, I'm working hard too. And you know, some people abuse their bodies and they are jealous yours looks so good. But they aren't abusing you and that doesn't justify abusing them.
It's not the same thing and to me, it seems very petty that you would insinuate it is.
Bitter much?
Shaming is shaming. Either way disrespecting someone for their body size/shape is wrong.
It's like the man what real woman with curves, not a bone. Or whatever that saying goes. Ugh. That annoys me.
I am not bitter, no. I was a size 16/18 and while that sucked and I did not like it, it was more a fashion problem and I was hardly ostracized from the world. But I have people I love that have been assaulted their whole lives because they are overweight. They become a joke and a punchline and they are human beings who do not deserve to be treated that way.
And no, it wouldn't be okay for someone to tear you apart either, but someone saying "hey, another piece of pie won't hurt you" is not the same as not being able to get a job interview because there are so many assumptions made because some is a size 26 instead of a 16 or a 6.
Bullying is crap no matter what and I don't deny it, but I see no examples here that are honestly comparable.0 -
Is there already butthurt creeping into tthis thread?
Avoid the butthurt.
I wonder something, how many people who are "fat shamed" have already been made out to be food?
ETA- Reason I wonder, is I've never had anyone try that with me, and I know I'd probably get in trouble if they did, because I would have an extreme knee jerk reaction that may involve them experiencing fear.0 -
It's not the same thing and to me, it seems very petty that you would insinuate it is.
I think you have done a fine job of defining petty. Your opinion noted.0 -
Having been both fat and thin, and having heard this stuff on both sides of the fence...you can't actually tell me you feel shamed and hurt emotionally by someone telling you that you are too thin?
I've been told that (not recently of course) I was going to disappear and so forth, but they are speaking with humor and its obviously intended as a compliment. When you are fat; I especially see it with people who were bigger than I ever have been -- everything is about their weight and how horrid they are. Feet hurt? Fat. Hungry? Can't be, too fat. You have a cold? Because you are too fat. Feel anything other than shame and hatred for yourself? How dare you be happy, you are TOO FAT. People have been denied medical attention due to their fat. Have you been denied because you are too healthy?
I get that you've worked hard. I know it, I'm working hard too. And you know, some people abuse their bodies and they are jealous yours looks so good. But they aren't abusing you and that doesn't justify abusing them.
It's not the same thing and to me, it seems very petty that you would insinuate it is.
I've seen your other posts in threads...So tell me, what's it like to be perpetually menstruating?
I can think of no other reason why you are constantly ANGRY, constantly trying to pick fights, always making mountains out of molehills and decide to get your feelings hurt over EVERY. LITTLE. THING.
If you honestly really are that thin-skinned, (though I suppose it is equally likely you are desperately seeking attention through drama-mongering) I suggest you just stay out of the forums until you can handle hearing opinions that differ from yours.
You're a rocker, you rock out. Good on ya for saying what needed to be said.0 -
This kind of made me feel awful because my sister whose like 5'6 and weighs 120 lbs is constantly on a diet and i'm constantly telling her to knock it off because she's skinny enough. Now I feel like I've been bullying her and have to go home and apologize to her
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I agree whether thin or not don't judge someone by their weight. I consider myself to be average sized, over the years friends have said " you're lucky you're the size you are" , no I'm not lucky - I watch what I eat, I exercise and I try to be healthy and when my jeans start to NOT fit I know I need to get it under control.0
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I'm not angry and I'm not attacking anyone as a person. I'm politely disagreeing with threads. Isn't that the point of a forum or is this the automaton only/agree with me or else party? If that's how this works, if people can only "motivate" by posting inflammatory stuff where there are likely to be a wide variety of PEOPLE WHO ARE FAT and probably pretty sensitive (who I feel like I need to protect) I guess I should find more reasonable people to talk to.0
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This kind of made me feel awful because my sister whose like 5'6 and weighs 120 lbs is constantly on a diet and i'm constantly telling her to knock it off because she's skinny enough. Now I feel like I've been bullying her and have to go home and apologize to her
Shawna -- Don't be hard on yourself, be proud of yourself. You are willing to re-evaluate based on input. So many of us just are unable to grow as people.0 -
I'm not angry and I'm not attacking anyone as a person. I'm politely disagreeing with threads.
You said " it seems very petty that you would insinuate it is." That is not a personal attack? That is polite?
I guess you learn something new every day.0 -
I don't think it is shaming so much as defensive responses that have little to do with the person the comment is aimed at. I had someone imply when I lost weight that she was never going to do what I did in losing 50 pounds because "No one ever said 'I regret eating that second brownie.' " Like I deny myself brownies. I might as well not been standing there when she made the comment at me--she was having a conversation with herself. There are people who are health obsessed and make anti-overweight comments because they deep down are trying to convince themselves they will not revert to those habits again. It's a lot of fear and insecurity covered up with at best well intentioned ignorance and at worst passionate self righteousness. And it doesn't have a body fat percentage qualifier.0
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I can't stand that. My sister is not 'curvy' by any standards. She's in a healthy range and everything, never worked out just never gained a pound of fat and she constantly felt like she wasn't sexy compared to all of the beautiful curvy women. She's never had much of a butt or boobs. She's tall and wears a size 0/2.
She has felt shamed and bullied especially recently. She's one of those 'eat anything never gain' folks. It really upsets her. With FB pages like "curvy girls are better than skinny girls" how could she not feel unattractive?
It's not okay to make anyone feel ugly. It seems like everyone is trying to make thick girls feel good and they're forgetting that by doing so they're making everyone else feel like ****. Not okay.0 -
Having been both fat and thin, and having heard this stuff on both sides of the fence...you can't actually tell me you feel shamed and hurt emotionally by someone telling you that you are too thin?
A man at work yesterday was giving me a hard time for not eating cookies with everyone else. He told me I need to stop trying so hard with my diet/exercise and that my face was looking emaciated and like a concentration camp victim.
Yes, this DID hurt my feelings. How could it not? It stuck with me all day.
I work hard to be healthy and stay in shape. I don't appreciate it any less than you if someone says something hurtful just because I'm thin.0 -
I was shopping for a suit a few months ago, because I went from a 44/46" to 40" chest. As I was trying out various slim-fit suits, I remarked that I might have to come back and buy another, if I get it too tightly cut, as I might put on more muscle. The salesman looked shocked and said "WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT???"
I said, "Because I'll look and feel better! I'll gladly buy new clothes. It's totally worth it. Just like it is NOW."
Oh no, I've been "shamed".
It may be annoying and rude and ignorant, but I don't see it as shaming. Shaming is "Because of X, you are a bad person", not because someone said something and you feel bad about it. If you take a comment and decide that you're a bad person because of it, then you're shaming yourself.
People need to toughen up just a little, fit and overweight alike.
If people tell me I'm too skinny, then I simply think "nah, you're wrong" and that's it.
This is not to disavow your rant, I feel what you're saying. Just as long term thing, the only thing we can change is ourselves, and how we react to such things.0 -
people think any opinion that does not glorify what some one else does or looks like is shaming. I think the shaming ship needs to set sail over the horizon never to be heard from again. I think if (for example) the "big is beautiful" crowd, really and truly thought that they were beautiful, they wouldn't get so offended when someone doesn't like "big" or suggests that they lose weight, or eat something that will be better for their body. If one group is entitled to a preference, then so is everyone else. One would think there were a law stating that we all must think alike and have the same opinion. There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are, but sometimes who we are is not good for our health. I think the same about skinny shaming, health shaming, etc... I certainly don't care if someone dislikes my food choices. When people suggest that surely I must be miserable eating mostly vegetables, I just tell them that they can choose theirs, and I can choose mine. Just because mine is different from theirs, that does not mean I am depriving myself of food I love. I hope the whole being perpetually offended trend ends soon. There once was a time when people didn't get villianized (sp?) for every thing they said. Furthermore, unless someone makes a direct and actual attack on someone, there shouldn't be a problem.0
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I was shopping for a suit a few months ago....
Thanks you for your perspective. For those in doubt, this message (and the message following by Mallory) is what disagreeing looks like.0 -
For me, I've never been really, really overweight. I was about 50-60 pounds overweight at my heaviest. Other than maybe the odd comment form my mom on my weight, no one every commented on it (unless there was a specific weight conversation). Fast forward to m being 50 pounds lighter, and I have had more comments on my weight than ever in my life (from not my mom). I pass up a piece of cake at work? "Ohhhh, Jen's being goooood again" said so snidely. "It's just one piece of cake!" What do you think would happen if I said to an overweight person, "Do you really think you should have that slice of cake?". I was accosted by a random stranger in an elevator, who said, "How much do you weigh? 98 pounds!?! You girls as so thin these days!" I weighed 120-ish at the time, probably. I will admit to joking with a former co-worker who I see occasionally still. She hadn't seen me for awhile, and I'd lost a ton of weight, so she told me to eat a donut. (She is a teeny little thing herself). So, now every time we see each other, we'll say, "Eat a Danish!" "You need to get a chocolate bar and jar of peanut butter now!" That's all in good fun. Other comments, not so much. People will actually comment when they see me eat a cookie or something now. Or the Facebook post an old college friend of mine posted that was "Do NOT walk in and ask for a size 2 pair of curvy jeans!" or something like that. I've actually had a shop clerk tell me I need the curvy fit, and I AM a size 2. Maybe it doesn't hurt my feelings like someone calling me a fata$$ might, but it's still rude and flipping annoying as hell.0
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I'm not angry and I'm not attacking anyone as a person. I'm politely disagreeing with threads. Isn't that the point of a forum or is this the automaton only/agree with me or else party? If that's how this works, if people can only "motivate" by posting inflammatory stuff where there are likely to be a wide variety of PEOPLE WHO ARE FAT and probably pretty sensitive (who I feel like I need to protect) I guess I should find more reasonable people to talk to.
Oh, what makes you the Fat Knight? Now people NEED you to protect them. Sweet pumps, bro.0 -
Life becomes a lot more fun when do what you want and stop worrying about what other people think of your choices.
I get grief all the time about my diet and my commitment to training, and I don't give a flying crap about it. I feel better than I ever have in my life, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let other people make me feel like I have to defend myself for that.0 -
I think it's frustrating to be body-policed by other people no matter what, but no, I don't think it's the same thing. On a personal level, it might hurt and feel bad to be teased about being thin, but the larger context is totally different. Being thin and fit puts you in a position of privilege in society. Yes, "too skinny" is also fodder for teasing. But if you are fat, any teasing is coupled with a general attitude of disgust and blame. There isn't true shame attached to thinness or health the way there is to fatness.0
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I just want to point out that I don't think there's anything wrong with having a preference. I have a preference in my men and women, too. And I talk about it! Publicly!
The problem arises when people start getting mean about it.
"Thick girls are better than thin girls" Okay, fine. I respect your opinion.
"THIN GIRLS LOOK LIKE BONES WITH SKIN DRAPED OVER THEM EW. ANYONE UNDER 120 NEEDS TO GAIN A FEW POUNDS AND COME BACK TO ME" Ehhhh, maybe let's calm down with that.
"Thin girls are sexier than thick girls" Okay, fine. I respect your opinion.
"IF YOUR THIGHS LOOK LIKE COTTAGE CHEESE RUNNING DOWN A WALL THEN YOU NEEDA GTFO GIRL" Ehhhh, maybe let's calm down with that.
Just pointing out the difference.
I'm not easily offended. Neither of these things offend me personally but I can see how they're harmful to some people.0 -
Wait, why are we shaming anyone?0
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Wait, why are we shaming anyone?
Your expression seems reminiscent of Theon Greyjoy.0 -
I'll come out and ask... if most of America is fat and 1/4 is obese WHO are the people fat shaming? How can a majority shame itself? I just don't understand it.0
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This^^Life becomes a lot more fun when do what you want and stop worrying about what other people think of your choices.
I get grief all the time about my diet and my commitment to training, and I don't give a flying crap about it. I feel better than I ever have in my life, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let other people make me feel like I have to defend myself for that.
People giving you crap for accomplishing something for yourself are just jealous haters.0 -
When I was 14, I had to get a physical to go off to a church camp. I found out that I was 5 ft 7.5 in and weighed in at 148 lbs. I did NOT think I was overweight. It never occurred to me at all, even then. But when some family members found out, they made fun of me and told lots of other people, who also made fun of me. Thus began the cycle of yo-yo dieting and body image issues. Now I hear, "Don't lose to much, you look weird when you lose a lot of weight, wow you're just gonna fly away, your head looks big now...". It hurts no matter what! I'm just so happy that I have a husband who loves me and has been supportive of me these past 10 years whether I'm chubby or not.0
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Okay, I've had six decades to live among people, and I can tell you all this; thin, fat, curvy, healthy, muscular, eating right, eating poorly, no matter what, you will never lack for people who disagree with your choices and comment on them. Be like my beautiful Muscovy ducks; calm and serene on the surface, paddle like hell underneath, and let the bad comments just roll off you.0
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Wait, why are we shaming anyone?
Your expression seems reminiscent of Theon Greyjoy.
I was told I look like Peter Dinklage the other day.
Maybe I should try out for next season. I seem to have the Westerosi look about me.0 -
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