is a 5 day split bad for a beginner

i want to start doing a 5 day split for weightlifting but i was told it was bad for beginners.

Mon chest/tris
Tues Legs/Abs
Weds back/biceps
Thurs shoulder/abs
Fri cardio
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Replies

  • Hexahedra
    Hexahedra Posts: 894 Member
    No workout (with proper form) is bad, it just depends on what you're trying to achieve and how fast. If you're more into lifting and doing cardio just to maintain stamina, then as a beginner compound workouts are better than split.

    I split simply because I'm doing more cardio to increase my endurance, so I lay off leg workouts for the time being.
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    5 day (bro) splits aren't the best things for beginners. I am going to assume you want to build some muscle and strength. Everyone preaches starting strength or strong lifts. I would recommend Jason Blah's 5x5 for novice. His youtube channel is icecreamfitness.
    Here is a youtube link to his program
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feY6vi6ORXo

    Protein synthesis peaks at 48 hrs so you can hit the same body part in 48 hrs provided you keep the volume (setsxreps) manageable. Many pros train each bodypart 1x per week because they train at such high intensity. Even if they don't train at high intensity they are on anabolic steroids (gear). Gear allows protein synthesis to remain elevated for longer periods of time hence why the need to hit the body part 1x per. week.
  • phatguerilla
    phatguerilla Posts: 188 Member
    No workout (with proper form) is bad

    I'm afraid that's just not true, if you cannot recover from a session in time for the next then a programme is bad. I would say if the op as a beginner would find it hard to do legs and back on back to back days, especially if they use an appreciable amount of volume.
  • MzManiak
    MzManiak Posts: 1,361 Member
    Hm. This is interesting. Every time I ever worked with a trainer, they told me to split, and I am DEFINITELY a novice when it comes to strength training and working out in general... What would you recommend, if not split?
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    Hm. This is interesting. Every time I ever worked with a trainer, they told me to split, and I am DEFINITELY a novice when it comes to strength training and working out in general... What would you recommend, if not split?

    Nothing wrong with a split, but a 4 day split is better than a 5 day split...for a beginner you're going to over train with a true 5 day split...really, a 5 day split is just over kill and completely unnecessary. You can also do 3 day splits like I'm doing now...it really just depends on your goals.

    Personally I think beginners get the most benefit from a 3x weekly full body routine. I did Starting Strength for about 7-8 months and made some really awesome strength gains...I finally got to the point where I couldn't recover from squatting every time out and just switched to a 3x weekly split with Wendler's 5/3/1 a couple weeks ago. I'm enjoying it, but my strength gains are going to be much slower with this program.

    It really depends on what's important to you. Also, a lot of trainers are pretty stupid...there's about 2 out of 10 at my gym that I would pay any attention to whatsoever.
  • MzManiak
    MzManiak Posts: 1,361 Member
    Hm. This is interesting. Every time I ever worked with a trainer, they told me to split, and I am DEFINITELY a novice when it comes to strength training and working out in general... What would you recommend, if not split?

    Nothing wrong with a split, but a 4 day split is better than a 5 day split...for a beginner you're going to over train with a true 5 day split...really, a 5 day split is just over kill and completely unnecessary. You can also do 3 day splits like I'm doing now...it really just depends on your goals.

    Personally I think beginners get the most benefit from a 3x weekly full body routine. I did Starting Strength for about 7-8 months and made some really awesome strength gains...I finally got to the point where I couldn't recover from squatting every time out and just switched to a 3x weekly split with Wendler's 5/3/1 a couple weeks ago. I'm enjoying it, but my strength gains are going to be much slower with this program.

    It really depends on what's important to you. Also, a lot of trainers are pretty stupid...there's about 2 out of 10 at my gym that I would pay any attention to whatsoever.

    Ah, got you. 5 days a week strength training does sound like a lot as a beginner. They must just take a blanket approach to everyone to make it easier on themselves... I guess I did more of a 3 day split, the other 2 days were just cardio or a class. Thank you!
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,992 Member
    Depends on how much of a beginner they are. If they are entirely new to lifting, I personally wouldn't put them on a split till they achieved some base strength and form.
    If they were a beginner returning to lifting and have been working out for a month or two, then depending on their goals I might.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    not bad but certainly not optimal,

    AS a beginner you need frequency not volume.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    not bad but certainly not optimal,

    AS a beginner you need frequency not volume.

    ^^yep
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
    Hm. This is interesting. Every time I ever worked with a trainer, they told me to split, and I am DEFINITELY a novice when it comes to strength training and working out in general... What would you recommend, if not split?

    Nothing wrong with a split, but a 4 day split is better than a 5 day split...for a beginner you're going to over train with a true 5 day split...really, a 5 day split is just over kill and completely unnecessary. You can also do 3 day splits like I'm doing now...it really just depends on your goals.

    Personally I think beginners get the most benefit from a 3x weekly full body routine. I did Starting Strength for about 7-8 months and made some really awesome strength gains...I finally got to the point where I couldn't recover from squatting every time out and just switched to a 3x weekly split with Wendler's 5/3/1 a couple weeks ago. I'm enjoying it, but my strength gains are going to be much slower with this program.

    It really depends on what's important to you. Also, a lot of trainers are pretty stupid...there's about 2 out of 10 at my gym that I would pay any attention to whatsoever.

    i pretty much agree with this.

    if you are brand spanking new, full body circuits 3 times a week are great. as your lifts progress, you'll struggle to do them on the same day.

    thats when you work to a program that is 5/3/1. four day split. day 1 Overhead press. day 2 dead lift. day 3 is chest press. day 4 is squats. you don't have to do those monday through thursday. just saying spread those out though the course of 7 days. find a few days to run, swim, bike, push a weight sled, tackle some hills, the stairmaster, or whatever.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Hm. This is interesting. Every time I ever worked with a trainer, they told me to split, and I am DEFINITELY a novice when it comes to strength training and working out in general... What would you recommend, if not split?

    Nothing wrong with a split, but a 4 day split is better than a 5 day split...for a beginner you're going to over train with a true 5 day split...really, a 5 day split is just over kill and completely unnecessary. You can also do 3 day splits like I'm doing now...it really just depends on your goals.

    Personally I think beginners get the most benefit from a 3x weekly full body routine. I did Starting Strength for about 7-8 months and made some really awesome strength gains...I finally got to the point where I couldn't recover from squatting every time out and just switched to a 3x weekly split with Wendler's 5/3/1 a couple weeks ago. I'm enjoying it, but my strength gains are going to be much slower with this program.

    It really depends on what's important to you. Also, a lot of trainers are pretty stupid...there's about 2 out of 10 at my gym that I would pay any attention to whatsoever.

    i pretty much agree with this.

    if you are brand spanking new, full body circuits 3 times a week are great. as your lifts progress, you'll struggle to do them on the same day.

    thats when you work to a program that is 5/3/1. four day split. day 1 Overhead press. day 2 dead lift. day 3 is chest press. day 4 is squats. you don't have to do those monday through thursday. just saying spread those out though the course of 7 days. find a few days to run, swim, bike, push a weight sled, tackle some hills, the stairmaster, or whatever.

    I think a natural progression is to a push/pull or upper/lower 2 day is better personally than going straight into a four day split.
  • phjorg1
    phjorg1 Posts: 642 Member
    he is simplifying 5/3/1. it actually has a lot more volume than that. ever movement will be done 2-3x a week on it.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    he is simplifying 5/3/1. it actually has a lot more volume than that. ever movement will be done 2-3x a week on it.

    Not the standard 5/3/1. It has more volume due to assists but each compound is 1 x a week.
  • phjorg1
    phjorg1 Posts: 642 Member
    you might want to relook. it's expected to do assists and you do other movements for it. you're still going to be doing movements 2-3x a week on it.
  • Mrsallypants
    Mrsallypants Posts: 887 Member
    Put shoulders with chest and tri day, and do cardio after weight lifting. Reduce it to 3 days.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
    When it comes to lifting there are more questions than answers. I think experimentation, doing what you want, and listening to your body is key.
  • phjorg1
    phjorg1 Posts: 642 Member
    When it comes to lifting there are more questions than answers. I think experimentation, doing what you want, and listening to your body is key.
    humans are not unique snowflakes in this regard. doing what you want is really about the worst way to train when you have so many excellent programs avail from elite trainers. you have to be a fool to ignore them and think you can do better
  • wswilliams67
    wswilliams67 Posts: 938 Member
    All this really depends on your goals.

    BUILD STRENGTH/MUSCLE: Any of the 3x/week, 5x5 routines are awesome. Great for progression and building strength. You hit multiple muscle groups with compound movements. You can do LOW INTENSITY cardio on the off days for your CV system and not risk losing any gains you make from your lifting.

    BODY BUILDING: Here you'll want bro splits. But again not 5 days to start.

    Beginners always end up over-training. I did. It ends up hurting you after a while.
  • BarackMeLikeAHurricane
    BarackMeLikeAHurricane Posts: 3,400 Member
    Your gains will be *kitten*. Do a strength based program until your 5RM is equal to novice 1RM but ideally until you hit intermediate (for 1RM). Check performance standards here: http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
    When it comes to lifting there are more questions than answers. I think experimentation, doing what you want, and listening to your body is key.
    humans are not unique snowflakes in this regard. doing what you want is really about the worst way to train when you have so many excellent programs avail from elite trainers. you have to be a fool to ignore them and think you can do better
    And your results are where? There is a reason most guys at the gym look the same year after year they are all using programs from "elite" trainers, whatever the hell that means. Before the internet every lifter(powerlifters and bodybuilders) has had their own routines, they didn't follow "trainers", they forged their own paths.
  • rick_po
    rick_po Posts: 449 Member
    Beginners always end up over-training. I did. It ends up hurting you after a while.

    I over-trained the first 2 times I decided to "get in shape". I made some early strength gains, then stalled, then actually got weaker and weaker until I had to quit.

    You might be able to do a 5-day split as a beginner, but you'd better be in damn good shape before you start. And if you don't make the progress you're expecting, it's probably because you bit off a little more than you can chew.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    you might want to relook. it's expected to do assists and you do other movements for it. you're still going to be doing movements 2-3x a week on it.

    Nope. Here is a summary (which is consistent with the book):

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html

    It is a 4 day split. You only dead, squat, bench and press 1 x a week.
  • phjorg1
    phjorg1 Posts: 642 Member
    you might want to relook. it's expected to do assists and you do other movements for it. you're still going to be doing movements 2-3x a week on it.

    Nope. Here is a summary (which is consistent with the book):

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html
    you need to reread it. you missed the "and assistance work" part. wtf do you think is being done for assistance work? tiddlywinks?
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    you might want to relook. it's expected to do assists and you do other movements for it. you're still going to be doing movements 2-3x a week on it.

    Nope. Here is a summary (which is consistent with the book):

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html
    you need to reread it. you missed the "and assistance work" part. wtf do you think is being done for assistance work? tiddlywinks?

    What? And stop being a tool.

    How many times a week do you think you dead? or bench? or squat? or press?
  • phjorg1
    phjorg1 Posts: 642 Member
    you might want to relook. it's expected to do assists and you do other movements for it. you're still going to be doing movements 2-3x a week on it.

    Nope. Here is a summary (which is consistent with the book):

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html
    you need to reread it. you missed the "and assistance work" part. wtf do you think is being done for assistance work? tiddlywinks?

    What? And stop being a tool.

    How many times a week do you think you dead? or bench? or squat? or press?
    1x. but so what? you do 2-3x movements a week. so you dead, then a couple days later you do pullups. thats called pull movement son. then you do rows, also a pull. And thats 2-3x/week movement volume. you need to learn that noone uses body part training anymore but bros. Time to learnyour movement patterns. And yes, 5/3/1 is very much a 2-3x per week movement pattern training template. deal with it.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    you might want to relook. it's expected to do assists and you do other movements for it. you're still going to be doing movements 2-3x a week on it.

    Nope. Here is a summary (which is consistent with the book):

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html
    you need to reread it. you missed the "and assistance work" part. wtf do you think is being done for assistance work? tiddlywinks?

    What? And stop being a tool.

    How many times a week do you think you dead? or bench? or squat? or press?
    1x. but so what? you do 2-3x movements a week. so you dead, then a couple days later you do pullups. thats called pull movement son. then you do rows, also a pull. And thats 2-3x/week movement volume. you need to learn that noone uses body part training anymore but bros. Time to learnyour movement patterns. And yes, 5/3/1 is very much a 2-3x per week movement pattern training template. deal with it.

    OMFG - unless you adapt it, do you or do you not squat 1 x a week? Squatting 1 x a week is not ideal imo for the majority of people (and not for a beginner/novice).

    Stop being a condescending prick and assuming things.
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
    phjorg, i don't know you... but sara has forgetten more about lifting than you will ever know.
  • ladyark
    ladyark Posts: 1,101 Member
    I dont have any advice for the OP but, i do a different body part every day. Chest, Back, Shoulders, Legs and Arms and i do abs with them each day as well . I do this 5 mornings a week and 2 nights a week do some type of cardio. I do this because i like being in the gym that often and it works for my schedule to spend an hour each morning there. When i get tired of it i change it up for a few months to 3 times a week with mixed or full body. So i guess it depends on what works for you time wise and as long as you are getting proper rest.
  • Luis2787
    Luis2787 Posts: 66
    Depends on how much of a beginner they are. If they are entirely new to lifting, I personally wouldn't put them on a split till they achieved some base strength and form.
    If they were a beginner returning to lifting and have been working out for a month or two, then depending on their goals I might.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    well i have been on and off at the gym for about 6 months.