Vegetarian w/ PCOS considering a change (think: meat)
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I have read your post. I don’t ever answer without reading someone’s post. I simply stated that someone calling themselves vegetarian that eats meat is not vegetarian. That’s all.
I also suffer from GI issues (and have so for a good part of my life) and as per my MD, I cut out meat completely 5 years ago. That has been the best advice thus far. It has gotten rid of a lot of my issues. Especially the and severe cramping. The eczema that came along with the intolerance to bovine lactose is also gone. Headaches to. They're gone. But I've had to modify my diet as I also ate too many carbs. That is changing as I have seen a nutritionist that is vegetarian and she is helping me out – I’m now eating the correct way. Purely on a plant based diet. And have tons of energy. I sleep very well. Which I had not done in a long time.
Speak to a nutritionist. One that is familiar with a vegetarian lifestyle.0 -
Perhaps if you had been more truthful in your topic line you would not be getting the types of answers you consider smug. You are not even close to being vegetarian, so why is that even relevant.0
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I am a vegetarian with PCOS. I feel your pain. If I were convinced that eating meat was the only way to be healthy again, I would do it. I would definitely exhaust all other options first though, because the idea of eating meat is so repulsive to me. It really would be a very last resort, but I can't say I wouldn't go there if ALL else failed.0
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I'm a type I diabetic. I'm not insulin-resistant as far as I know, but I do understand PCOS. I used to be vegan for about 5 years, vegetarian for a few before that. Not a junky vegetarian, but a sprouting, seaweed-eating, spend a million dollars on all the micronutients kind. I constantly battled my weight, my skin was bad, and I was always hungry. It was a hard decision for me to eat meat, but once I did I never looked back. I felt completely different. Beans and legumes are very high in carbs and would require me to take a lot of insulin, so I can't imagine they are too easy on your pancreas. Soy probably messes with your hormones as well. The Type II diabetics and PCOS folks I know that successfully manage their conditions with diet eat low-carb.
If I were you, I would try it. Your health and quality of life are #1. Find a way to make peace with your diet, whether by only buying organic meat from a local farm, or cutting your carbon footprint elsewhere. Try eating low-starch veggies and protein as the mainstays of your diet. If you don't see a change, go back to being vegetarian. I hope you find the right balance for you!0 -
I do not have PCOS, but I did become a veggie for awhile and gained weight, just like you do. I have not been tested for Celiac's, but I know that I do have a gluten/yeast intolerance, if not an allergy. When I went veg, I replaced meats with yeasty/gluteny things and packed on the lbs, despite living in Europe and walking hours a day. Recently, I tried low fat raw vegan which made me feel great environmentally/ethically, but I felt horrible physically. I theoretically ate lots of protein - soy and legumes - and still didn't feel well.
What I would say to you is to try different foods and see how you feel. Try adding in 1 type of meat - seafood, chicken, whatever you are ok with, and see how you feel. I know that for me, animal protein HAS to be in my diet for me to be able to perform physically and to have mental and emotional stamina that I need.0 -
Perhaps if you had been more truthful in your topic line you would not be getting the types of answers you consider smug. You are not even close to being vegetarian, so why is that even relevant.
I have not eaten a mammal in 17 years. Prior to 2007, I hadn't eaten anything with a face for a decade. The notion of eating another living, breathing creature DOES, in fact, continue to bother me.
The reason why I abhor the smugness is because I resent that the anonymity of the internet allow everyday folks the right to assume the people on the other end of the network are idiots. I am in a Master's Degree program for Robotics Engineering, own my own business, and have a research assistantship at a first-tier school. My nerd-ego gets her hackles up pretty easily. For that, I apologize.
I am not trying to say that being a vegetarian isn't good for most people. It would probably do most people a world of good to cut out the saturated fats and add more veggies to their diets. In my case, however, I am becoming increasingly convinced that some people are just not meant to have this diet. All bodies are different.
I was not deceptive. This all boils down to a rather telling difference in perception. There is no such thing as a universal truth, and the reason why I called responses like this one smug is because of the definition of the word. (<- The intentional irony is that I am being smug to illustrate the point.) Smug means having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements. So, vegetarians get up in arms and almost universally take offense to me identifying that way when they go to great pains to avoid all meat in their diets. They are proud of their lifestyles, generally because they see it as morally superior, which does, indeed, result in a smug tone to their responses to my rather innocent inquiry. On the other hand, meat-eaters do not generally know - or care to know - the difference. I am in the middle, straddling both worlds, and frankly couldn't care less about the minute differentiations, and I assume most people who aren't "real" vegetarians feel similarly indifferent about this stupid pet peeve.0 -
I do not have PCOS, but I did become a veggie for awhile and gained weight, just like you do. I have not been tested for Celiac's, but I know that I do have a gluten/yeast intolerance, if not an allergy. When I went veg, I replaced meats with yeasty/gluteny things and packed on the lbs, despite living in Europe and walking hours a day. Recently, I tried low fat raw vegan which made me feel great environmentally/ethically, but I felt horrible physically. I theoretically ate lots of protein - soy and legumes - and still didn't feel well.
What I would say to you is to try different foods and see how you feel. Try adding in 1 type of meat - seafood, chicken, whatever you are ok with, and see how you feel. I know that for me, animal protein HAS to be in my diet for me to be able to perform physically and to have mental and emotional stamina that I need.
Thank you for your response. A lot of this rings true for me. I did raw vegan for a while too and it was awful.
BTW: Congrats on your weight loss! That is super impressive
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You know what has helped me lose weight, regain a normal cycle, and actually become pregnant twice? It's been simple portion control, logging my food, removing all sugar sweetened drinks from my diet including juice, a moderately reduced carbohydrate diet about 35-55% of my diet depending on the day, and adding variety including meat and vegetables once I started doing this I was able to lose weight and get pregnant. If you dont want to eat meat then dont do it. You can follow a moderate carbohydrate diet as a veg you just may need to add more sources of secondary animal protein or fish to supplement.
I think following a moderate diet, really watching the portion sizes, and logging could help increase your insulin sensitivity.0 -
Also, kindly note that a vegetarian does not eat any kind of flesh. No mammals. No birds. No fish nor seafood. Zip. Nada. Nothing that ever had eyes.
So does that mean i can't have potato?
I always thought it was a vegetable, but it has eyes, so.......0 -
I gave up soy (at least, major sources of it like soy milk) about a week before starting my current weight loss journey, and I think it has made a difference. Estrogen is not my friend.
I also felt fairly miserable on a vegetarian diet (veggie for four years, 2 years at a time with 2 years in between) and was never successful in sticking with a weight loss plan without some significant protein sources in my diet.0 -
I'm bit confused on why you think going back to meat diet will help your issues? It's easy to reduce carbs on a vegetarian diet...or rather didn't you say in a later post you are actually pescatarian?
Most people don't know what a pescatarian is. I have asserted from my initial post (please re-read it if you don't believe me) that I do incorporate fish and occasionally some poultry into my current diet. I have been ovo-lacto/lacto-ovo, as well as vegan. Of the last 17 years, I have only been eating fish and foul for the last 5.
I kind of sense that you are a veg*n. The only people I know who get indignant about pescatarians calling themselves "vegetarians" are, themselves, vegetarians. (For the record, most pescatarians only associate themselves with veg*ns to make it easier to explain their diet to the mammal meat eating masses who tend to get perplexed by the label. In essence, we don't do it for people who already know the difference.)
Please do not be defensive of the lifestyle, as I agree that it is the ideal, most ecologically friendly, most compassionate way to eat.
I have been a vegetarian of one stripe or another for the better part of twenty years. I am not inexperienced about this subject. It is easy to reduce carbs on a veg*n diet, BUT it is damned near impossible to get carbs as low as I need to in order to get my blood sugar where I want it, AND eliminate wheat (which I'm sensitive to), AND eliminate soy (which has phytoestrogens that could also be messing with my PCOS). The problem is, with these last considerations, it becomes almost impossible to eat enough protein on my current diet. Even the protein sources in a veg*n diet are relatively higher in carbohydrates than meat.
Here is a list of popular veg*n protein sources and why I shouldn't eat them as the basis of my diet any longer. I know that these are incredibly healthy and they taste delicious. I have been living off of this stuff for years...but I am still fat and my blood sugar is all f'ed up because I don't metabolize sugar like the average person does. A little bit of carbs go a LONG way when you're a diabetic.
Tempeh (soy), Soybeans (soy), Seitan (wheat/gluten), Lentils (I love 'em, but they are high in carbs), Black beans (ditto; I
these, but they're very high in carbs), Kidney beans (ditto), Chickpeas (ditto), Pinto beans - and let's just say all legumes (high fiber, but also high carb), Veggie burger (has almost a full serving of carbs according to the American Diabetes Association - a full serving is 15 grams), Tofu (soy), Quinoa (a 1/2 cup has 17g carbs), Peas (high carb), Textured Vegetable Protein - TVP (a 1/2 cup has 14 g of carbs, which is almost a full serving), Peanut butter (also high carb; even the unsweetened kind has about 6g carbs for 2 tbsp),
Veggie dog (again, these have sugar in them), and you probably get the point.
Now, I know a little bit of carbs - especially ones high in fiber like those listed above - aren't going to hurt me, and in fact, are quite good for me. The problem comes in when you start to build meals out of all of this stuff. If the veggies and fruit have sugar and even the proteins have carbs (which is not generally the case with meat protein) then before you know it - BOOM - I am eating too many carbs, my blood sugar spikes, I get really tired and pass out, and my whole day is shot.
I am trying to avoid becoming insulin dependent here. The reason why I am considering meat is because of this desperation. I am a 32 year old type two diabetic. This is no joke.
Do you also have PCOS or are you diabetic? If you are, and have specific advice on how to eliminate most of the carbs from my diet while maintaining this lifestyle, I would be absolutely thrilled to hear it. For real - no snarkiness intended in that statement at all. Otherwise, please keep your scrutiny to a minimum until you've walked a mile in these very frustrated, overweight, and morally vexed shoes.
It sounds to me you already aren't vegetarian or pescatarian so I'm not sure what the issue is about going back to eating meat if you are already eating it unless you are talking specifically to red meat.
Most people here know what a pescatarian is. And yes I am vegetarian. It appears to me you are trying to justify why you think you should eat meat? If you want to, go for it, it's your life, your choice, you don't need anyone's permission and it's really not anyone's business what you do. That's between you, your morals, and your doctors.
The research on soy and "photoestrogen" is spotty at best, but if you feel it makes you sick then don't eat it. No one expects you to stick to any type of diet if makes you sick, vegetarian, paleo or whatever. And you probably shouldn't try and stick to a diet that is too much for you to handle.0 -
Metformin tore my gi track up so my doctor put me on glipizide and I was fine then. Not sure if that is the problem....just putting it out there. Good luck to you 0
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Perhaps if you had been more truthful in your topic line you would not be getting the types of answers you consider smug. You are not even close to being vegetarian, so why is that even relevant.
I have not eaten a mammal in 17 years. Prior to 2007, I hadn't eaten anything with a face for a decade. The notion of eating another living, breathing creature DOES, in fact, continue to bother me.
The reason why I abhor the smugness is because I resent that the anonymity of the internet allow everyday folks the right to assume the people on the other end of the network are idiots. I am in a Master's Degree program for Robotics Engineering, own my own business, and have a research assistantship at a first-tier school. My nerd-ego gets her hackles up pretty easily. For that, I apologize.
I am not trying to say that being a vegetarian isn't good for most people. It would probably do most people a world of good to cut out the saturated fats and add more veggies to their diets. In my case, however, I am becoming increasingly convinced that some people are just not meant to have this diet. All bodies are different.
I was not deceptive. This all boils down to a rather telling difference in perception. There is no such thing as a universal truth, and the reason why I called responses like this one smug is because of the definition of the word. (<- The intentional irony is that I am being smug to illustrate the point.) Smug means having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements. So, vegetarians get up in arms and almost universally take offense to me identifying that way when they go to great pains to avoid all meat in their diets. They are proud of their lifestyles, generally because they see it as morally superior, which does, indeed, result in a smug tone to their responses to my rather innocent inquiry. On the other hand, meat-eaters do not generally know - or care to know - the difference. I am in the middle, straddling both worlds, and frankly couldn't care less about the minute differentiations, and I assume most people who aren't "real" vegetarians feel similarly indifferent about this stupid pet peeve.
The way I see it, is that you have everything to gain from experimenting with eating meat again. Why does it matter that its a mammal any more than a bird or a fish? If anything it is easier to eat ethical red meat, as the poultry and fish industries tend to have the most lax animal welfare standards (for fish, unless you are in the EU, pretty much none). I never understand why people eat poultry and fish over red meat and then still pretend that they are doing it for humane reasons.
Basically, I think its far more important that every protein source you consume is sourced from a humane source than pinpointing certain species to eat. So... nike. Just do it.0 -
If anything it is easier to eat ethical red meat, as the poultry and fish industries tend to have the most lax animal welfare standards (for fish, unless you are in the EU, pretty much none). I never understand why people eat poultry and fish over red meat and then still pretend that they are doing it for humane reasons.
This is most definitely true.
If I were ranking standard (non-fish, I know damn-all about fish) animal products available in stores by general QOL for animal, it would go as
Game (including venison)
Goat/Lamb
Beef/Dairy (assuming the dairy isn't constantly stalled, which most of the ones I've visited are not)
long drop here
Poultry
Pork/Eggs (raising methods are both terrible)
Veal
Of course, this is just my personal opinion. But I can't help thinking that a beef cow that actually gets to move around and socialize with other cows had a better life than a battery-farmed laying hen.0 -
Have you looked into a High Fat Low Carb plan? My macros are set at 50Fat/30Pro/20Carb. I have cut out all grains and processed sugars, and eat lots of nuts, avocados, etc. I also eat cheese, tho I don't drink cow's milk due to the sugar level.
I have PCOS and am IR. I also have 2 autoimmune/inflammatory disorders, plus IBS.
I am not strict Paleo/Primal but do follow some of their guidelines. I also follow part of the Atkins plan. I tried out various things and found what worked best for me.
I am not vegetarian in any way, but I would imagine that you should be able to get 30% protein in with eggs, fish, whey protein powder, peanut butter (not paleo, but I do have some peanuts without problems). Free range chickens are treated humanely I hear.
The biggest suggestion would be to cut out the grains and processed sugars. That has been the biggest help for me.
Not only have I lost 43 pounds since eating this way, my hormones are leveled out, my pain levels are drastically reduced, no more IBS issues, or psoriasis outbreaks, no more extreme fatigue. I am a completely different person than I was a year ago.
I understand the humane issues, but you need to do what is best for your health. I don't follow any of the 'rules' of any plan 100%. I choose parts that work for me and go with it. No need for anyone to get too legalistic.
Best of luck figuring out what works for you.0 -
:flowerforyou: At the risk of coming off as argumentative, vegetarians do not eat fish or chicken. Sorry, but that is a pet peeve of mine, not because I am indignant about it, but because it is illogical for anyone who eats fish and chicken to label themselves as a vegetarian. Fish and birds are animals. The entire basis of a vegetarian diet is NOT eating animals. That said, why worry about labeling yourself at all? I understand that it sometimes makes it easier, but not if you are using a label that does not apply to your personal eating habits.
I'm a diabetic. I'm currently eating a vegan diet and am *mostly* eating very low carb. How low do you want to go, and how strict are you willing to be to do it? It can be done, but it is fairly extreme. If you are curious to see what I do, add me as a friend and take a look at my diary. I'm not advocating what I do for anyone else. I'm just saying you might want to look for morbid curiosity if no other reason.
But . . . if you don't mind eating meat, fish, chicken, and you think it will help you be healthier, then why worry? You could give it a try and switch to something else if it doesn't work out the way you hope.
Actually, in some cultures, fish isn't considered 'meat', so you couldn't really argue that to those folks. But that being said, hopefully the OP can find a diet that is both healthy for her and ethically sound.0 -
Thank you! I may have to take you up on that. Even though I am entertaining the idea of incorporating other proteins, I still love vegetarian food. I am always open to new suggestions.I've been vegetarian for over 3 years and I find that it actually helps my GI issues (I have Crohn's disease). That being said, it is not for everyone. I don't know a lot about PCOS but I do know that it is incredibly complicated. I think there's a group on here for PCOS which may offer you better advice-if I rememeber right, I think some of the other posts about PCOS have mentioned success from low carb and (doctor supervised) low calorie diets (particularly around the 1200 calorie mark).
If you would like some vegetarian ideas, feel free to check out my diary-I eat around 175g of protein, 155g of carbs and 50g of fat per day. I also make sure to get way over the iron recommendation because I've ended up getting iron infusions as a result of Crohn's.
Hope you find some good advice and a diet that works for you, whatever it may be.
As for the GI issues, I am pretty convinced that most of them are from the Metformin. They recently doubled my dosage and it's the worse thing ever. I'm afraid to leave the house because all I have to do it look at food and I make a run for the bathroom. It's been about five months since the change. In my estimation, that's plenty of time for the side effects to settle down. I am trying to see this as a good thing, though. If it motivates me to get my sugar in check so I don't need the pills anymore, then so be it.0 -
If you are going for metformin and have had issues before, try to get put on the slow release.
Thank you for the recommendation! I am currently on the ER version. I think it's the dose that is killing me right now. Endo issues are such a pain to regulate!0 -
Metformin tore my gi track up so my doctor put me on glipizide and I was fine then. Not sure if that is the problem....just putting it out there. Good luck to you
I am calling her up to ask about this in the morning!!! Thank you!0 -
Basically, I think its far more important that every protein source you consume is sourced from a humane source than pinpointing certain species to eat. So... nike. Just do it.
Excellent points. Thank you!0 -
I just wanted to say that in spite of the predictable catty responses from a few, there have been some great ideas on this thread that I will try out. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Thank you. 0
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You know what has helped me lose weight, regain a normal cycle, and actually become pregnant twice? It's been simple portion control, logging my food, removing all sugar sweetened drinks from my diet including juice, a moderately reduced carbohydrate diet about 35-55% of my diet depending on the day, and adding variety including meat and vegetables once I started doing this I was able to lose weight and get pregnant. If you dont want to eat meat then dont do it. You can follow a moderate carbohydrate diet as a veg you just may need to add more sources of secondary animal protein or fish to supplement.
I think following a moderate diet, really watching the portion sizes, and logging could help increase your insulin sensitivity.
GODDD, I hope I don't get pregnant, like I'm 58 AND a man. Please tell me I'm safe?0 -
Yikes people, forget the semantics. Calm down. It's just an internet forum.
I don't have PCOS. I do know, however, that Metformin is known to cause major GI upset. From what I read, it's likely because it prevents the absorption of glucose from the intestines (as all biguanides do). When sugar sits in your intestines, the bacteria (good and bad) will nosh on it like an all you can eat buffet, and ferment it and cause gas and inflammation, the latter of which causes water to fill the intestines (in other words, diarrhea).
I haven't checked to see if your diary is open, but if you're consuming a lot of simple carbs and simple sugars, it'll cause GI upset.
The other thing I know about PCOS is that women with it tend to have higher amounts of estrogen. It's a vicious cycle. These higher levels of estrogen cause the body to hold onto fat, and fat causes the release of more estrogen. Soy is a great imitator of estrogen, especially in high quantities. If you are consuming soy products as in soy milk or soy meat replacement, you could be overdoing it. Also, soy is known to cause GI upset as well! (I'm sorry, my post is full of bummers.) Soy also happens to be in every bit of processed food, vegetarian or otherwise.
It is entirely possible to be vegetarian/vegan/pescetarian/flexitarian/whatevertarian without soy products. Check out So Delicious brand. They have coconut products and almond products that are way more delicious (haha) than soy.
Try keeping a food journal - like the one here, but note how you feel after eating (and how long after eating you feel that way - any and all symptoms: fatigue, grumpy, excitable, jittery, GI, headache) and in it keep track of your menstrual cycle. Take this with you to your doctors and discuss it. See if they can refer you to a dietitian who specializes in PCOS.
Your best bet is to talk with your docs about the best approach for *you.*
Good luck with everything! I hope you find the answers you need!
By the way, when I've told people I'm pescetarian, they ask me what church I belong to. I can at least commiserate with you on that!0 -
My understanding is that it's the other way around - you have higher amounts of free-floating androgen, precursor to testosterone, which causes the hair growth on the face, hair loss on the head....0
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Have you been tested for Celiac disease?0
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My understanding is that it's the other way around - you have higher amounts of free-floating androgen, precursor to testosterone, which causes the hair growth on the face, hair loss on the head....
Androgens are also the precursors of estrogens.0 -
My understanding is that it's the other way around - you have higher amounts of free-floating androgen, precursor to testosterone, which causes the hair growth on the face, hair loss on the head....
Androgens are also the precursors of estrogens.
Yes, but they certainly don't act like estrogen.0 -
My understanding is that it's the other way around - you have higher amounts of free-floating androgen, precursor to testosterone, which causes the hair growth on the face, hair loss on the head....
Androgens are also the precursors of estrogens.
Yes, but they certainly don't act like estrogen.
They can become either testosterone or estrogen, both are steroid hormones.
PCOS causes insulin resistance. Insulin resistance causes hyperglycemia. Hyperglycemia triggers (in PCOS) excess insulin production by the pancreas. This excess insulin causes the body to store extra fat. The extra fat produces estrogen.
EDIT: This is not to say that you're wrong about androgens that convert into testosterone, causing hirsutism. You're right about that. But androgens also convert into estrogen.0 -
Due to humane issues I also went vegetarian. Then I realized that there were other ways of doing it, so I went from making my own tofu (which is about as far from sustianability and humane/ethical growing as I could have gone) to raising my own because I knew how it was treated, I respected their lives, I raised them to the best of my ability (people said they wished they could be my animals *G*), and then butchered them with respect.
And I have never been healthier. I would suggest your diet is also very low in healthy fats and that could be a big problem. I'm a high fat, moderate protein low carb gal. That means lots of cream (yes, I now milk my own grassfed cow), ghee, butter, even tallow, lard etc and lots of sauteed veggies (in coconut oil too), our free range eggs, grassfed beef and pork (you want to see happy, see a pig with 6 gallons of milk in front of it
, and free range chicken.
I am content with my decision (albiet an insane amount of work because we live so rural nobody else does it for me to buy LOL), I am strong in my decision to eat high fat with the research surrounding it in re. to a healthy body, brain, and regulating sugar (DH's family is full of diabetes, high bp and cholesterol and he can be off any meds on this diet), and my kids have killer health.
So, look at the healthy alternatives - producing grains and legumes is neither healthy nor sustainable agricuture0 -
My understanding is that it's the other way around - you have higher amounts of free-floating androgen, precursor to testosterone, which causes the hair growth on the face, hair loss on the head....
Androgens are also the precursors of estrogens.
Yes, but they certainly don't act like estrogen.
They can become either testosterone or estrogen, both are steroid hormones.
PCOS causes insulin resistance. Insulin resistance causes hyperglycemia. Hyperglycemia triggers (in PCOS) excess insulin production by the pancreas. This excess insulin causes the body to store extra fat. The extra fat produces estrogen.
EDIT: This is not to say that you're wrong about androgens that convert into testosterone, causing hirsutism. You're right about that. But androgens also convert into estrogen.
Yes, they do, but the estrogen is unbalanced with lower than normal progesterone and it ultimately leads to higher testosterone than is normal in a PCOS'ed woman. So you have abnormally high levels of both.0
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